Lies

[zigzagbigbag]

5 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Just had to remove a link to an unofficial video. Everyone please make sure you're up to speed on this rule that's being forced on us:

http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/223008-no-more-links-to-unofficial-or-unlicensed-content/?tab=comments#comment-4753744

We will have to enforce this rule going forward. We know it's bullshit, but we have to do this for obvious reasons. 

Out of sheer curiosity I just went over to HTGTH for the first time in at minimum 10 years just to verify if there still is the download section. And guess what, it still looks the same and is still active like in 2008. 

How can this be? Is it just because the connection between the guy who cannot be named and GNR?!

I just do wonder. 

[Sydney Fan]

I guess the lyrics to OIAM is open to each persons interpretaton of the meaning and maybe was axls intention of writing the song.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Sydney Fan

[RussTCB]

4 hours ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Out of sheer curiosity I just went over to HTGTH for the first time in at minimum 10 years just to verify if there still is the download section. And guess what, it still looks the same and is still active like in 2008. 

How can this be? Is it just because the connection between the guy who cannot be named and GNR?!

I just do wonder. 

It's because no other GNR site is under direct attack by "fan(s)" who claim to be working directly on behalf of the bands management. 

So HTGTH, other GNR forums and pretty much every other site on the planet doesn't have to deal with this bullshit. Just us because we're the sole target for this mess, which the bands management has no interest in assisting us with. 

[zigzagbigbag]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

It's because no other GNR site is under direct attack by "fan(s)" who claim to be working directly on behalf of the bands management. 

So HTGTH, other GNR forums and pretty much every other site on the planet doesn't have to deal with this bullshit. Just us because we're the sole target for this mess, which the bands management has no interest in assisting us with. 

Ok, I thought even YT and FB accounts etc were targeted by those „fans“, hence not only this forum. 

Anyways, of course I totally understand your zero tolerance policy to avoid any trouble for this forum, let alone any personal trouble.   

 

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Ok, I thought even YT and FB accounts etc were targeted by those „fans“, hence not only this forum. 

Anyways, of course I totally understand your zero tolerance policy to avoid any trouble for this forum, let alone any personal trouble.   

 

Well, you're right: personal YouTube and Facebook accounts have been targeted but they're all directly related to this site, that's why they've been targeted. 

[jamillos]

Follies and bickers, that’s right 
Get out of my way 
I’ll hire some nutjobs 
Who’ll seize you today 

Die-hards and forums 
They make no sense to me 
They intrude my vaults here 
And think they’ll do as they please 
 

There, now you can reissue that. 100% PC-compliant.

[Dazey]

17 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Your post made me actually lol. 

I have to laugh at the idea that OIAM should be stricken from existence. To me, that's the same idea as book burning. 

As a further reply to that post you originally quoted: I don't know anyone who thought it was cool that Axl said the N word, then they "grew out of it". That idea is hilarious to me. 

For me it's a great song very much of a specific time and place in Axl's life. I don't think it should be removed from future releases but I do think it should never be performed live again.

[soon]

OIAM wasnt good enough musically to make the cut for UYI. Even My World made the cut! And the words are bigoted. But it still gets all this attention. Ive heard basically two arguments in defence of it

1) The notion that 'it wasnt mean spirited because he really saw things that way.' Which can be more accurately phrased as 'he wasnt trying to be provocative, he just really did have bigoted views.' My response to this often stated argument is "Yeah? Well that sucks And obviously people will oppose those world views."

2) The other main argument Ive heard is that "its open to interpretation." This ultra post-modernist reading is at odds with the utilization of strong language to intentionally make a strong point. Strong points that were punctuated with a "Thats right." I completely reject the post modernist argument in defence of this bigoted screed.

The only thing to say that makes sense to me is 

3) Its bigoted and I still like it.

Then, good for you. Its still not very compelling musically though. But its great if you enjoy it!

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

OIAM wasnt good enough musically to make the cut for UYI. Even My World made the cut! And the words are bigoted. But it still gets all this attention. Ive heard basically two arguments in defence of it

1) The notion that 'it wasnt mean spirited because he really saw things that way.' Which can be more accurately phrased as 'he wasnt trying to be provocative, he just really did have bigoted views.' My response to this often stated argument is "Yeah? Well that sucks And obviously people will oppose those world views."

2) The other main argument Ive heard is that "its open to interpretation." This ultra post-modernist reading is at odds with the utilization of strong language to intentionally make a strong point. Strong points that were punctuated with a "Thats right." I completely reject the post modernist argument in defence of this bigoted screed.

The only thing to say that makes sense to me is 

3) Its bigoted and I still like it.

Then, good for you. Its still not very compelling musically though. But its great if you enjoy it!

Wait. What? Lies was released well before UYI, so how was it "not good enough to make the cut for UYI" when it was released before UYI? 

Also, I'm not sure who said "it's open to interpretation" because it's very obvious what Axl meant with the lyrics. 

[soon]

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

Wait. What? Lies was released well before UYI, so how was it "not good enough to make the cut for UYI" when it was released before UYI? 

I just meant to make reference to all those songs were written during AFD era - NR, YCBM, DC etc. They held them over for UYI, not the Lies EP, because they were the A-list. As someone mentioned earlier, the acoustic NR would be perfect on a Lies style EP, or Lies itself. But Axl saw more depth and musical potential to NR and wanted to bring that to life. That ambition was beyond the scope of the quickly assembled EP.

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

I just meant to make reference to all those songs were written during AFD era - NR, YCBM, DC etc. They held them over for UYI, not the Lies EP, because they were the A-list. As someone mentioned earlier, the acoustic NR would be perfect on a Lies style EP, or Lies itself. But Axl saw more depth and musical potential to NR and wanted to bring that to life. That ambition was beyond the scope of the quickly assembled EP.

I've never ever heard the theory that the songs on Lies are on there because they're weren't good enough for UYI lol

[ax1]

8 minutes ago, soon said:

I just meant to make reference to all those songs were written during AFD era - NR, YCBM, DC etc. They held them over for UYI, not the Lies EP, because they were the A-list. As someone mentioned earlier, the acoustic NR would be perfect on a Lies style EP, or Lies itself. But Axl saw more depth and musical potential to NR and wanted to bring that to life. That ambition was beyond the scope of the quickly assembled EP.

As much as I love UYI albums, OIAM easily would make the top 5 chart on both UYI without even thinking about it.

So your saying Patience wasnt A-List? LOL The entire Lies Side B was absolutely A-list and that album as a whole is one of the greatest Rock albums in history.

Lies wast released because of some B-list songs they had, Lies was put out to give the fans something incredible prior to the UYI albums which took a long time (funny we all thought "long" at the time! LOL) to put out after AFD.

Edited November 26, 2019 by ax1

[soon]

Just now, ax1 said:

As much as I love UYI albums, OIAM easily would make the top 5 chart on both UYI without even thinking about it.

 

So your saying Patience wasnt A-List? LOL The entire Lies Side B was absolutely A-list and that album as a whole is one of the greatest Rock albums in history.

OIAM sounds like a demo to my ears.

 

Patience being a smash hit was a surprise to them even. But of course they would want something of quality on that side of the EP.

[SoulMonster]

Slash did say at one point that the songs on Lies were songs they didn't think should go on their next album (UYI), but didn't explain what he meant by that, and Duff said that what they really wanted to do was to re-release Live Like A Suicide and decided to add some "acoustic shit" they had "lying around" onto it. Their mindset regarding the making of Lies and UYI was also very different, with Lies being a quickie (they didn't want to refer to it as a "filler", yet they did) and UYI being a very long drawn-out project where everything was thought through. That doesn't mean they valued the songs on Lies any less, necessarily, just that they were different types of releases. 

[ax1]

9 minutes ago, soon said:

OIAM sounds like a demo to my ears.

 

Patience being a smash hit was a surprise to them even. But of course they would want something of quality on that side of the EP.

Well I mean thats fair. To me it sounds like a musical masterpiece but I shouldnt judge how others feel about that

[Towelie]

I'll be honest, I hardly ever listen to Lies. I'll occasionally spin Move To The City, but that's about it. Lies was a hit because of Appetite. If Lies had been their debut it would've flopped hard and we may never have gotten Appetite. It was a record company cash-in, to give the fans something to chew on and the label some return on their investment, whilst everyone was waiting for the real follow up to AFD.

Musically, it has some cool moments, and I'm glad we have it, but it's not even close to the best work on AFD, UYI or even CD. 

Hell, I play Spaghetti more than I play Lies.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Towelie

[RussTCB]

10 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I'll be honest, I hardly ever listen to Lies. I'll occasionally spin Move To The City, but that's about it. Lies was a hit because of Appetite. If Lies had been their debut it would've flopped hard and we may never have gotten Appetite. It was a record company cash-in, to give the fans something to chew on and the label some return on their investment, whilst everyone was waiting for the real follow up to AFD.

Musically, it has some cool moments, and I'm glad we have it, but it's not even close to the best work on AFD, UYI or even CD. 

Hell, I play Spaghetti more than I play Lies.

Both Lies and TSI are at the bottom for me. I did play Lies front to back the other night though. It was probably the first time in a decade that I did that, so I guess Lies has the edge on TSI currently lol

[2020_Intensions]

I guess a lot of people wont ever understand the art behind the lyrics of OIAM if they aren't familiar with small-town America vs. the Big City ... It's not just bigoted ranting ...

[ax1]

36 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I'll be honest, I hardly ever listen to Lies. I'll occasionally spin Move To The City, but that's about it. Lies was a hit because of Appetite. If Lies had been their debut it would've flopped hard and we may never have gotten Appetite. It was a record company cash-in, to give the fans something to chew on and the label some return on their investment, whilst everyone was waiting for the real follow up to AFD.

Musically, it has some cool moments, and I'm glad we have it, but it's not even close to the best work on AFD, UYI or even CD. 

Hell, I play Spaghetti more than I play Lies.

Id certainly take AFD and UYI over Lies any day as much as I love Lies. TSI is hard for me to listen to, but I do love that first 50s song and Down on the Farm.

Edited November 26, 2019 by ax1

[estrangedtwat]

2 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

I guess a lot of people wont ever understand the art behind the lyrics of OIAM if they aren't familiar with small-town America vs. the Big City ... It's not just bigoted ranting ...

Well, it IS bigoted ranting.....but my response to that would be "So fucking what?"    It's just words...it's just a viewpoint.

 

I can't believe how threatened people are anytime anyone expresses a view that's in any way outside the norm.  It was "shocking" 30 years ago, but it would be downright catastrophic if a popular artist released a song like this today.

 

People are too goddamn fragile.  I understand that people don't like the words in the song.   If you don't like them....don't listen.   Simple solution.    But no, instead people will go out of their way to make sure nobody can even say these words....that nobody can even listen to the song.....then nobody can even THINK these words alone in their head.    It never ends.

 

They're just fucking words.

[soon]

31 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said:

Well, it IS bigoted ranting.....but my response to that would be "So fucking what?"    It's just words...it's just a viewpoint.

 

I can't believe how threatened people are anytime anyone expresses a view that's in any way outside the norm.  It was "shocking" 30 years ago, but it would be downright catastrophic if a popular artist released a song like this today.

 

People are too goddamn fragile.  I understand that people don't like the words in the song.   If you don't like them....don't listen.   Simple solution.    But no, instead people will go out of their way to make sure nobody can even say these words....that nobody can even listen to the song.....then nobody can even THINK these words alone in their head.    It never ends.

 

They're just fucking words.

These statements often strike me as being largely hypothetical. I for one literally said its great if people enjoy it. I havent seen anyone call for it to be banned from existence?

[TheHelgo]

I Love Lies! Can't put it above AFD or even Illusions, but strictly vocally speaking, I think the acoustic songs are some of Axl's best.  AFD, Illusions, Lies, Live Era, TSI, CD in order

[RussTCB]

7 minutes ago, TheHelgo said:

I Love Lies! Can't put it above AFD or even Illusions, but strictly vocally speaking, I think the acoustic songs are some of Axl's best.  AFD, Illusions, Lies, Live Era, TSI, CD in order

Couldn't agree more about the vocals. All controversy about OIAM aside, I think that and You're Crazy omare some of the strongest vocals Axl ever recorded. 

[ax1]

1 hour ago, soon said:

These statements often strike me as being largely hypothetical. I for one literally said its great if people enjoy it. I havent seen anyone call for it to be banned from existence?

Back in the day they were kicked out of the AIDS benefit concert because of protests of that song.

[Ratam]

19 minutes ago, ax1 said:

Back in the day they were kicked out of the AIDS benefit concert because of protests of that song.

And almost happened it with the Freddie Mercury Tribute. But fortunately don't happened , thanks to Brian May and Elton John support.