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Matt Sorum's Autobiography

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Yes. Art/ position can be separated  from the artist/ person. In Pages case, the groupies were not held hostage,abused, etc. Think if the times too. I am not biased. RKelly, no. You are talking about underaged girls, held hostage and things and the industry knew. No one said anything. I never heard of that story about Axl. I am not taking up, but I will put in the " Not enough proof, dont know box."  

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27 minutes ago, Amaya said:

Yes. Art/ position can be separated  from the artist/ person. In Pages case, the groupies were not held hostage,abused, etc. Think if the times too. I am not biased. RKelly, no. You are talking about underaged girls, held hostage and things and the industry knew. No one said anything. I never heard of that story about Axl. I am not taking up, but I will put in the " Not enough proof, dont know box."  

Axl was accused of forcibly raping a model at a party. It sounded credible and there is the story of him and that 15 year old girl, but again I don’t let it change my opinion of Axl as an artist. But the stories are a trip to hear when I hear Duff speak nowadays. But, those guys were all hungry to make it and allowed or enabled Axl’s behavior. 

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I have a lot of mixed feelings from time to time about whether I should continue to support GNR in any way. There are other reasons, but their history of abusing women and girls is high on the list. I suppose the way I currently see it is that it's okay for me to be a fan as long as I make it clear that I don't condone any wrongdoings. There is good and bad in people. The good stuff doesn't magically disappear when you become aware of something bad.

But I don't find this approach 100% satisfactory by any means. I don't want to turn my back on the victims by selfishly continuing to enjoy the music as if nothing happened or by forever sitting on the fence because I can't be 100% certain whether someone is telling the truth.

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24 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I have a lot of mixed feelings from time to time about whether I should continue to support GNR in any way. There are other reasons, but their history of abusing women and girls is high on the list. I suppose the way I currently see it is that it's okay for me to be a fan as long as I make it clear that I don't condone any wrongdoings. There is good and bad in people. The good stuff doesn't magically disappear when you become aware of something bad.

But I don't find this approach 100% satisfactory by any means. I don't want to turn my back on the victims by selfishly continuing to enjoy the music as if nothing happened or by forever sitting on the fence because I can't be 100% certain whether someone is telling the truth.

Jesus fuckin' Christ...

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30 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I have a lot of mixed feelings from time to time about whether I should continue to support GNR in any way. There are other reasons, but their history of abusing women and girls is high on the list. I suppose the way I currently see it is that it's okay for me to be a fan as long as I make it clear that I don't condone any wrongdoings. There is good and bad in people. The good stuff doesn't magically disappear when you become aware of something bad.

But I don't find this approach 100% satisfactory by any means. I don't want to turn my back on the victims by selfishly continuing to enjoy the music as if nothing happened or by forever sitting on the fence because I can't be 100% certain whether someone is telling the truth.

I wish I could just take you backstage so you get a glimpse of reality.

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4 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Axl was accused of forcibly raping a model at a party. It sounded credible and there is the story of him and that 15 year old girl, but again I don’t let it change my opinion of Axl as an artist. But the stories are a trip to hear when I hear Duff speak nowadays. But, those guys were all hungry to make it and allowed or enabled Axl’s behavior. 

What stories were these?

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

What stories were these?

The first one I can’t source now. I cannot find it online. It was story about a penthouse model at a party. She told a very credible story with no negativity or shit talking. She said Axl forced himself on her at a party, anally I believe, and she later during the party he approached her and apologized telling her some excuse about his life. The 15 year old one is well documented and a thread was here about it. 
 

 

 

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/how_axl_rose_avoided_statutory_rape_charge_from_a_15-year-old_girl.html

Edited by The Holographic Universe

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MaskingApathy said:

What stories were these?

I guess he means the Sheila Kennedy story. According to her, she went to Axl's room to have sex with him and Axl was violent to her (some of her peripheral information can't be verified, but anyway).

The other one is, I suppose, the "Michelle" story from 1986 that has been discussed a lot and we've written about (with much more information than the link from Mick Wall's book above) here:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4942-06-january-december-1986-getting-signed#18944

Edited by Blackstar

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7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I guess he means the Sheila Kennedy story. According to her, she went to Axl's room to have sex with him and Axl was violent to her (some of her peripheral information can't be verified, but anyway).

The other one is, I suppose, the "Michelle" story from 1986 that has been discussed a lot and we've written about (with much more information than the link from Mick Wall's book above) here:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4942-06-january-december-1986-getting-signed#18944

I believe you are correct about the first story. It’s been years since I read the account. Is there anything published about GNR that you don’t know? Love your site and passion. I never thanked you before on this forum, but I very much appreciate your efforts. 

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1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I guess he means the Sheila Kennedy story. According to her, she went to Axl's room to have sex with him and Axl was violent to her (some of her peripheral information can't be verified, but anyway).

I don't think she said that she went there specifically to have sex with him. She was invited to an afterparty he was throwing in his suite. There were other people there at first but at some point when she got out of the bathroom the other people had left and it was just Axl. Then things got ugly.

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5 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I don't think she said that she went there specifically to have sex with him. She was invited to an afterparty he was throwing in his suite. There were other people there at first but at some point when she got out of the bathroom the other people had left and it was just Axl. Then things got ugly.

Oh please.

Quote

I had no idea what the fuck she was talking about. All I knew was that he was beautiful. Google some pictures of him from the "Appetite for Destruction" era. I’m not lying.

Once we got closer to the table he noticed me, too. He got to the point pretty quick. “Hey, you wanna party with me and Rikki?”

“Sure, my girlfriend and I…”

“Not your girlfriend. She’s not hot.”

I was thinking, “Oh shit.” I didn’t feel great about abandoning my friend, but I fucking wanted this guy.

“Go find another girl, we’ll take some other girl but not your girlfriend.”

Fuck it. I said to Suzy, “I’m really sorry, Axl just wants me to go.” She was a pretty good sport about it, or maybe she knew she was about to dodge a bullet. When I got back to Axl, Rikki had found himself a nice looking model named Brooke, and we were good to go.

Disclaimer: I'm not giving any opinion about what happened with her and Axl. But it's obvious why she went with him.

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19 minutes ago, Lio said:

Oh please.

Disclaimer: I'm not giving any opinion about what happened with her and Axl. But it's obvious why she went with him.

Also:

"There was cocaine everywhere, pills, champagne and I just happened to go into his bathroom and I'm looking around, everybody's in the living room, and I see bottles of lithium and all this stuff. And I'm thinking, 'He is about to explode. This guy is on everything right now. And I got kind of scared.' [...] I think I walked into a situation that was ugly and I should have left but there was something in me that was attracted to him and I thought he's a good looking guy, I could have fun with him."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1245272/Sheila-Kennedy-s-night-Guns-Roses-singer-Axl-Rose.html


 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Also:

"There was cocaine everywhere, pills, champagne and I just happened to go into his bathroom and I'm looking around, everybody's in the living room, and I see bottles of lithium and all this stuff. And I'm thinking, 'He is about to explode. This guy is on everything right now. And I got kind of scared.' [...] I think I walked into a situation that was ugly and I should have left but there was something in me that was attracted to him and I thought he's a good looking guy, I could have fun with him."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1245272/Sheila-Kennedy-s-night-Guns-Roses-singer-Axl-Rose.html


 

That’s the interview where she says the next day he woke up and disappeared (leaving her in the hotel) to go to the Howard Stern show where he was told off by Stern for being late and he said it was because he was up all night with a penthouse pet - but where is this interview and did we ever find out if Axl went on his show other than the two phone calls we know about? 

Edited by MillionsOfSpiders
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32 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

That’s the interview where she says the next day he woke up and disappeared (leaving her in the hotel) to go to the Howard Stern show where he was told off by Stern for being late and he said it was because he was up all night with a penthouse pet - but where is this interview and did we ever find out if Axl went on his show other than the two phone calls we know about? 

Yes, this Howard Stern interview doesn't seem to exist. I believe, if it existed, it would have surfaced or at least it would have been mentioned somewhere. Stern himself used to mention some the previous interviews he had done with GnR every time he had someone from the band on his show, and he has never mentioned any Axl interview other than the two phone calls from 1989 and 1990. 

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44 minutes ago, Lio said:

Disclaimer: I'm not giving any opinion about what happened with her and Axl. But it's obvious why she went with him.

That's the type of mindset that so often leads to date rape. It may or may not be that she had an initial plan to have sex with him that specific night. It isn't "obvious" and the mere fact that she was attracted to him or wanted him doesn't make it so.

But I probably shoudn't be talking to you if I don't want to have my posts deleted.

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1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

That's the type of mindset that so often leads to date rape. It may or may not be that she had an initial plan to have sex with him that specific night. It isn't "obvious" and the mere fact that she was attracted to him or wanted him doesn't make it so.

But I probably shoudn't be talking to you if I don't want to have my posts deleted.

Okay, whatever :lol:

Not sure why talking to me would get your posts deleted? What kind of insinuation is that? But yeah, we don't seem to agree. You think it plausible that 'I fucking wanted this guy' meant that she was just attracted to him and 'I could have some fun with him' meant nothing sexual at all, while I do not. So no point discussing this any further.

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8 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I have a lot of mixed feelings from time to time about whether I should continue to support GNR in any way. There are other reasons, but their history of abusing women and girls is high on the list. I suppose the way I currently see it is that it's okay for me to be a fan as long as I make it clear that I don't condone any wrongdoings. There is good and bad in people. The good stuff doesn't magically disappear when you become aware of something bad.

But I don't find this approach 100% satisfactory by any means. I don't want to turn my back on the victims by selfishly continuing to enjoy the music as if nothing happened or by forever sitting on the fence because I can't be 100% certain whether someone is telling the truth.

I'd say you are about 30 years to late. They used women since like 1985. In fact you should just assume most rock bands do. What did you think "It's so easy" was about? The band was all sex, drugs and rock n' roll.

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Does anyone else find it weird how back in the hollywood rock scene, the best way to find women to exploit was to dress up like a women? :confused:

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2 hours ago, 31illusions said:

I'd say you are about 30 years to late. They used women since like 1985. In fact you should just assume most rock bands do. What did you think "It's so easy" was about? The band was all sex, drugs and rock n' roll.

There's no denying the misogyny and I suppose I've always had mixed feelings about GNR because of it, although the stories of Sheila Kennedy and Little Michelle only came to my attention in recent years. Still, I wouldn't say that is all there is to GNR. I might like Civil War, Coma and November Rain even if I don't like It's So Easy or Used To Love Her. At one of the shows I attended there were some girls who were only there to hear November Rain. That is as valid a position as any.

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1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

There's no denying the misogyny and I suppose I've always had mixed feelings about GNR because of it, although the stories of Sheila Kennedy and Little Michelle only came to my attention in recent years. Still, I wouldn't say that is all there is to GNR. I might like Civil War, Coma and November Rain even if I don't like It's So Easy or Used To Love Her. At one of the shows I attended there were some girls who were only there to hear November Rain. That is as valid a position as any.

Kill your heroes is an old saying which remains true. Artists are often people damaged to a degree, bellowing out gut emotion, which is then removed from its social context.

What you receive is that same honest emotion, which may then resonate in you. The longer you look at the artist tho, the more profane they seem next to their masterpieces.

Whether you listen to Guns (and feel dirty about it) or switch to more dignified artists, that's your call. If you ask me, good music is where you find it. Due diligence can be overthinking it.

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BTW, if it's true that the band is currently all "woke" (even to a point of rewriting their own history), it would be pretty funny if they were to lose all their fans with the slightest feminist leanings, who supposedly never should have liked rock bands to begin with, and were left with a fanbase of nothing but individuals completely at odds with what the band currently wants to represent. 

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2 minutes ago, denin said:

Kill your heroes is an old saying which remains true. Artists are often people damaged to a degree, bellowing out gut emotion, which is then removed from its social context.

What you receive is that same honest emotion, which may then resonate in you. The longer you look at the artist tho, the more profane they seem next to their masterpieces.

Whether you listen to Guns (and feel dirty about it) or switch to more dignified artists, that's your call. If you ask me, good music is where you find it. Due diligence can be overthinking it.

Just start with GG Allin and work your way up.

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Posted (edited)

It  was what it was. I am not the moral police. I like their nasty, old songs.  The 1980s  years, hey ,these guys were low life scum. Low life scum doesn't mean sexual  predators .  Kennedy" s case, serms like consenting adults. Michelle, I don't know. Not enough proof. Case was thrown out. The times and guys evolved  as 1990s  started and everything else..  Yesterdays is a really, good mature, timeless song for example as their music changed and petsonsl stuff too.  Today, they nor any of us are like we were 35 years  ago.

Edited by Amaya

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22 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

The first one I can’t source now. I cannot find it online. It was story about a penthouse model at a party. She told a very credible story with no negativity or shit talking. She said Axl forced himself on her at a party, anally I believe, and she later during the party he approached her and apologized telling her some excuse about his life. The 15 year old one is well documented and a thread was here about it. 
 

 

 

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/how_axl_rose_avoided_statutory_rape_charge_from_a_15-year-old_girl.html

 

22 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I guess he means the Sheila Kennedy story. According to her, she went to Axl's room to have sex with him and Axl was violent to her (some of her peripheral information can't be verified, but anyway).

The other one is, I suppose, the "Michelle" story from 1986 that has been discussed a lot and we've written about (with much more information than the link from Mick Wall's book above) here:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4942-06-january-december-1986-getting-signed#18944

Oh right I forgot about Little Michelle. I remember reading the Sheila Kennedy story too a while back.

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