STAR WARS: Convoluted Cash- Cow Disney Adventure Series That Will Never End Thread

[Jw224]

I am excited to see Palpatine again, even though him coming back is probably because they had nothing else I think they will make it work. 

[rocknroll41]

Screenshots of major moments in the movie are leaking online now. Tread lightly on the internet over the next few days!

[RussTCB]

5 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Screenshots of major moments in the movie are leaking online now. Tread lightly on the internet over the next few days!

Thank you for saying that! I accidentally saw the big spoiler regarding Han only a few hours before I saw TFA. I'll do my best to not see any spoilers before Thursday night / Friday morning. 

[Jw224]

I have been on the leaks reddit where the images are leaking but haven't looked at any of them, just reading the comments. It seems the leaks are accurate. 

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

I have been on the leaks reddit where the images are leaking but haven't looked at any of them, just reading the comments. It seems the leaks are accurate. 

I'm so thankful I forgot most of what I read in that case! 

[downzy]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I had 4 complaints overall but Rose & Finn was one of them. 

My complaints as a whole were:

It ended meaning nothing that we wasted so much time on them going to the casino planet. 

Flying Leia 

Rose / Finn supposedly being in love after spending roughly 16 1/2 minutes together 

And my biggest complaint with that around an hour of the movie was wasted right in the middle by a completely unnecessary slow speed chase

John Boyega, the actor who plays Finn, mentioned something last week as to why he didn't think TLJ worked as well as previous Star War films that I hadn't thought about but completely agree.

In the better to great Star Wars films there's a group chemistry dynamic amongst the main characters.  In the TLJ, most of the main characters are separated and only reunited at the very end of the film.  So the audience never really bonds with each character in the same way as Han, Luke, Chewbacca, R2D2, and 3CPO (and to a degree, Luke) do in the original films.  Poe, Finn, Rey - the primary characters who the audience is suppose to care about, spend little to little time together.  

I hadn't thought about that but I agree, it's why I think TLJ feels different than most other Star Wars films.  It's essentially a movie of side stories for each major character that feels disconnected from one another.

In addition to the reasons you listed, my other main issues with TLJ include:

- the treatment of Luke Skywalker.  I get why they wanted to turn Luke into a somewhat cynical hermit version of himself, sort of a cross between Obi One and Yoda from ESB, but it just doesn't feel right for a fanbase where Luke had always been the idealistic force in the series.  The character was short-changed in the grand scheme of things.

- cheap tricks and forced seasons as a crutch to move the narrative forward: all it would have taken was a few words to Poe (and the rest of the fleet) explaining the plan to save the resistance fighters and the whole side mission to the casino planet and botched mission could have been avoided.  It just belies belief that Leia and her generals would keep that plan so close to the vest and not tell anyone.  It was a cheap narrative trick employed to justify the nonsense missions to the casino planet and raid on the First Order's mother ship.  

Also a cheap trick was Luke's reappearance at the end.  There's the scene where Kylo's lightsaber almost hit's Luke in the face and they slow it down for dramatic effect.  But it really didn't matter if it hit Luke in the face or not since he really wasn't there.  It also felt cheap to show Luke's X-Wing in the ocean as a setup for the audience to believe Luke had flown to save the Resistance.  

- You mentioned the slow motion car chase, and as nonsensical as that was, it's inanity was only matched by having the Resistance fly their mothership through the First Order's mothership.  If shields can't protect massive ships from other ships at light speed, why not build a fleet of ships with robots as pilots and take out the First Order?  

- Rey's lineage.  I really hope (and believe) they'll somehow fix this in ROS, but I really didn't appreciate having Rey's lineage used as a setup only for the answer to be so uninspiring.  I get and sort of applaud the intention of democratizing the force.  I've never been a fan of the innate elitism that grounds the Star Wars narrative: only the select few (for random reasons) are special and can tap into the force.  In the OT it was never really explained why Obi Wan, Vader, and Luke were in touch with the force so it wasn't really an issue.  The prequels muddied the waters by suggesting it had something to do with metachlorians in your blood.  It just felt like in Johnson's attempts to democratize the force he negated everything that came before it.  I'm hoping ROS fixes the problem.

- Snoke.  What was the point of him even being in the first two films if he was going to be dispatched without any explanation as to who he is, where he came from, and how he transformed Ben Solo into Kylo Ren.  I'm sure they'll clean this up in ROS, but felt like a wasted setup and opportunity from TFA.

The whole movie just felt like a waste of time.  The few things the film explained felt underwhelming or disappointing.  There were some cool ideas but poorly executed.  And it left way too much to be cleared up for the final film.  I really wanted to like the film.  And after the first time I saw it I kind of did.  But after it sat with me for awhile I realized how little of the movie made sense and what a missed opportunity.  And I haven't even touched upon the decision to kill Luke and keep Leia around, despite the fact that Carrie Fisher is dead while Mark Hamil still lives.  Having Kylo Ren kill his mother in TLJ would have made more sense in the film in terms of his character development and would have made things a lot easier from a logistical stand point for ROS.  But instead we got a Marie Poppins cameo that stuck JJ Abrams with trying to figure out how to end the franchise with a vital character played by a now deceased actress.  

 

53 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I'm so thankful I forgot most of what I read in that case! 

Which reminds me we should setup a separate Star Wars thread for spoilers.  We'll keep this one for spoiler-free discussion.  

[downzy]

Please use this discussion thread to discuss the upcoming Star Wars film, Rise of Skywalker.

Use of spoiler tags not required in this thread.

For spoiler free discussion, please refer to this thread:

 

[downzy]

Please be advised that we have created a spoiler discussion thread that does not require the use of spoiler tags.

For those who have seen the movie who wish to discuss the film without having to use spoiler tags, please use this thread:

Just a reminder:

*** NO SPOILERS....  PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS TO DISCUSS ANYTHING THAT WOULD SPOIL THE FLM TO ANYONE WHO HAS NOT SEEN IT. ***

*** POSTING SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD WILL RESULT IN A WARNING POINT AND MONTH-LONG SUSPENSION ***

Don't be a jerk and ruin a film many are anticipating by posting spoilers in this thread.  

In a week or two we'll merge the two threads after enough time has passed to allow most fans a chance to see the film.

[ZoSoRose]

Hell yeah

I am so excited. Star Wars was so important to my childhood. I can't believe the Sequel Trilogy is coming to an end. Time has flown by since it was announced in 2012.

 

 

[UsedYourIllusion]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I had 4 complaints overall but Rose & Finn was one of them. 

My complaints as a whole were:

It ended meaning nothing that we wasted so much time on them going to the casino planet. 

Flying Leia 

Rose / Finn supposedly being in love after spending roughly 16 1/2 minutes together 

And my biggest complaint with that around an hour of the movie was wasted right in the middle by a completely unnecessary slow speed chase

I have to agree with this, all of these took my right out of the film. I'm not opposed to a love story, or it being created within the span of one film; but I just don't understand what it added to this particular story? They had 2 great chances to kill Finn and add a sense of urgency/tension to the movie. They blew both of them. It's like watching the Fast and furious movies. All of these people survive all these new bad guys and car crashes, shootouts etc. etc. We have to have some essence of the good guys losing; but we ultimately don't get one. Then all of a sudden Leia is now an invincible Jedi that can survive a blast into space... again another chance to end her role in the films--quite organically and gracefully. But, they blew it. TFA already put the 8th and 9th films into a hole by just regurgitating the same plot from A new hope, and pretty much not advancing the universe or story at all; now they feel as if they had to wrap up all the shenanigans they brought back up--which was essentially just an extension of the empire, which also includes the Skywalker family... well now time to ruin the emperor and bring back Death star 2?? I'm just so confused how they couldn't write a decent story for this trilogy, and yet Rogue One is soooo gooooooood. It didn't get shaped by some bullshit 'fan expectations' or anything like that. They just wanted to write an interesting story in the gap of star wars lore and history--and they did just that. 

Unfortunately, I think this film is not salvageable, and my only hope is that star wars can have a rebirth; like the James Bond series--with so many different iterations and "Generations".  Just not the focus on one character.

[Iron MikeyJ]

3 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

That is so dumb and condescending

Just because you dont agree with me, you resort to saying this? I specifically said I was not trying to be condescending, but it's honestly how I feel. I was trying to avoid playing the age card, but since you've corned me I will... TLJ was made for 20 somethings that grew up with the prequels. Those too young to remember the OT as being SW, and only SW. I know that sounds condescending to younger people to say "you are too young to know what ...blank... was really about." Having said that there IS something to actually having lived through a movie, band, whatever as opposed to learning about it after the fact. Take Zeppelin for example, we both love them, but neither one of us ACTUALLY lived through the Zeppelin era. I cant pretend that I know what that was like. I never saw them in concert, I never experienced what life was like when Zeppelin was THE band.

Same applies to everything else. Star Wars was THE film series from 1977-1987 (give or take). That was the pinnacle of its popularity. Everything since then is trying to recreate that magic. Which I'll be honest, I personally didnt really give a rip about SW until 88 or 89 or so, but I did know a lot of people that were crazy about it. Which Disney has every right to make movies for whatever audience they want. Having said that, they brought on this backlash by turning their backs on fans of a certain age. No, you are not going to please everyone, but what they did to Luke is just plain unforgivable and disrespectful. That was a kick in the balls for EVERY fan of a certain age, and it was completely intentional. That's the worst part. Despite what many Disney wars fans say, there is a HUGE section of the fan base that feels exactly like me. Most of the biggest SW youtubers out there have all turned on this trilogy. 

As for other movies go, I'm not going to sit here and say "all modern movies are crap." There are plenty of really good indie films or smaller studio productions. As far as major studio tent pole releases go, Hollywood is completely lost. They seem out of ideas. There is a genuine lack of creative talent in Hollywood anymore imo. There used to be genuinely good and interesting film ideas every year, now we just get remakes/reboots of those older films.  I just dont except the garbage they sell anymore, and Disney is the WORST offender.

Ive given up on Marvel (I'm pretty sure I've made that point them), but as I've said before I thought Endgame was pretty much garbage as well. Martin Scorsese just got a bunch of crap because he "doesnt consider Marvel films to be cinema." A bunch of people got all butthurt about that comment, but I get where he is coming from. Things like story, character development, etc have taken a back seat to "spectacle" and CGI overload.

I have also stated multiple times that Godzilla movies are a guilty pleasure for me, by no means high quality filmmaking. But I dont expect that from them either, I only ask for entertaining monster movies. Which that's all I ask for from most Hollywood films, be ENTERTAINING. Which is something that has been going down hill as well. Sure "entertaining" is not going to be the same for everyone. But there was not a single entertaining moment about TLJ for me. I agree with all the criticisms others have levied in this thread, but I would also add more to them. I dont find a single redeeming quality about that film. 

I understand that you (and others here) dont agree with me, and that's fine. Maybe I came across a little heavy handed when I said the word "pity." Its not that I literally "pity" them. I pity that they are latching onto films from this era, because that's what is available now (and they are of a certain age group). People are naturally going to defend the things from "their" time, and those that are older are always going to say the younger stuff is crap. But in this case, I would point to the fact that Hollywood is constantly recycling movies from my youth, so clearly they also think they were good ideas. Even though they turn them into utter crap. Which you cant just say it's because of a certain demographic they are remaking/rebooting older films, because if that were true, it would have been happing all along (60s films getting remade in the 90s, etc) yes there were remakes then as well, but nothing like what is happening now. 

[rocknroll41]

I watched the entire live stream of the red carpet premiere and whole time I was thinking “where’s slash?”

[downzy]

4 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Just because you dont agree with me, you resort to saying this? I specifically said I was not trying to be condescending, but it's honestly how I feel

You said something incredibly condescending to those who don't agree with you.  It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you still commit the offence.  

Not sure why this is difficult to grasp.  

[rocknroll41]

Can I post spoilers of the leaked screenshots? Or do I have to wait until after the movie is released?

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, downzy said:

You said something incredibly condescending to those who don't agree with you.  It doesn't matter what your intentions are if you still commit the offence.  

Not sure why this is difficult to grasp.  

It's because I'm so passionate about this topic. I used to LOVE Star Wars. The wound is also still rather fresh. Star Wars was my favorite film series, until TLJ came. Now it's dead to me, its like a divorce or something. I loved the woman, and she cheated on me and took the house in the divorce. Just no coming back from that. 

[downzy]

1 minute ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

It's because I'm so passionate about this topic. I used to LOVE Star Wars. The wound is also still rather fresh. Star Wars was my favorite film series, until TLJ came. Now it's dead to me, its like a divorce or something. I loved the woman, and she cheated on me and took the house in the divorce. Just no coming back from that. 

That's all fine and good.  But Zoso didn't resort to anything.  

You were incredibly condescending and disrespectful to anyone who holds a different opinion on the series.  

Several called you out on it.  

End or story.

 

[RussTCB]

13 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

I watched the entire live stream of the red carpet premiere and whole time I was thinking “where’s slash?”

You just relived a mini version of 2001 - 2014 GNR concerts lol 

[ZoSoRose]

30 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Just because you dont agree with me, you resort to saying this? I specifically said I was not trying to be condescending, but it's honestly how I feel. I was trying to avoid playing the age card, but since you've corned me I will... TLJ was made for 20 somethings that grew up with the prequels. Those too young to remember the OT as being SW, and only SW. I know that sounds condescending to younger people to say "you are too young to know what ...blank... was really about." Having said that there IS something to actually having lived through a movie, band, whatever as opposed to learning about it after the fact. Take Zeppelin for example, we both love them, but neither one of us ACTUALLY lived through the Zeppelin era. I cant pretend that I know what that was like. I never saw them in concert, I never experienced what life was like when Zeppelin was THE band.

Same applies to everything else. Star Wars was THE film series from 1977-1987 (give or take). That was the pinnacle of its popularity. Everything since then is trying to recreate that magic. Which I'll be honest, I personally didnt really give a rip about SW until 88 or 89 or so, but I did know a lot of people that were crazy about it. Which Disney has every right to make movies for whatever audience they want. Having said that, they brought on this backlash by turning their backs on fans of a certain age. No, you are not going to please everyone, but what they did to Luke is just plain unforgivable and disrespectful. That was a kick in the balls for EVERY fan of a certain age, and it was completely intentional. That's the worst part. Despite what many Disney wars fans say, there is a HUGE section of the fan base that feels exactly like me. Most of the biggest SW youtubers out there have all turned on this trilogy. 

As for other movies go, I'm not going to sit here and say "all modern movies are crap." There are plenty of really good indie films or smaller studio productions. As far as major studio tent pole releases go, Hollywood is completely lost. They seem out of ideas. There is a genuine lack of creative talent in Hollywood anymore imo. There used to be genuinely good and interesting film ideas every year, now we just get remakes/reboots of those older films.  I just dont except the garbage they sell anymore, and Disney is the WORST offender.

Ive given up on Marvel (I'm pretty sure I've made that point them), but as I've said before I thought Endgame was pretty much garbage as well. Martin Scorsese just got a bunch of crap because he "doesnt consider Marvel films to be cinema." A bunch of people got all butthurt about that comment, but I get where he is coming from. Things like story, character development, etc have taken a back seat to "spectacle" and CGI overload.

I have also stated multiple times that Godzilla movies are a guilty pleasure for me, by no means high quality filmmaking. But I dont expect that from them either, I only ask for entertaining monster movies. Which that's all I ask for from most Hollywood films, be ENTERTAINING. Which is something that has been going down hill as well. Sure "entertaining" is not going to be the same for everyone. But there was not a single entertaining moment about TLJ for me. I agree with all the criticisms others have levied in this thread, but I would also add more to them. I dont find a single redeeming quality about that film. 

I understand that you (and others here) dont agree with me, and that's fine. Maybe I came across a little heavy handed when I said the word "pity." Its not that I literally "pity" them. I pity that they are latching onto films from this era, because that's what is available now (and they are of a certain age group). People are naturally going to defend the things from "their" time, and those that are older are always going to say the younger stuff is crap. But in this case, I would point to the fact that Hollywood is constantly recycling movies from my youth, so clearly they also think they were good ideas. Even though they turn them into utter crap. Which you cant just say it's because of a certain demographic they are remaking/rebooting older films, because if that were true, it would have been happing all along (60s films getting remade in the 90s, etc) yes there were remakes then as well, but nothing like what is happening now. 

 

What you said was literally condescending because you can't wrap that people have different view points around your narrow mind. I don't care if you don't like TLJ, but for you to say my understanding of film is worse than yours (which is hilarious coming from you of all people) is dumb

So what did I "resort to", exactly?

Also, you aren't that old. Aren't you within a decade of me? I grew up with Star Wars just like you did. Luke is my favorite character, and I really liked where they took him at the end of TLJ. It is perfectly fine you didn't. All you do is gatekeep people on this board now in almost every thread you enter. I love it when you play the "age card" like you are some ancient, all-knowing deity. Get over yourself dude.

[downzy]

As the recent discussion has moved away from the subject matter, let's leave it at that.  

[Jw224]

JJ got asked by Jimmy Kimmel "You'd know where the leaks came from if there were any right?" and he said "I think so yes". Someone is gonna get their life ruined by Disney. 

[rocknroll41]

Reviews are mixed so far. People are saying there is too much exposition, which seems to be JJ’s way of trying to make up for the LACK of exposition in 7 and 8. Nonetheless, most people seem to be saying it’s very satisfying from an emotional standpoint.

In a weird sorta way, I’m kinda glad that for once people aren’t walking out of premiere saying “it’s the best since Empire!” Maybe now, expectations can be more realistic for movies going forward, starting with this one.

On a more positive note, it looks like the big exposition dump early on in the film was also done so that this movie could work a bit more on its own, without 7 and 8, so I suppose that might please those who haven’t been happy with the other two films thus far.

If anything, nobody seems to be saying it’s a total disaster like GoT Season 8, at least.

Edited December 17, 2019 by rocknroll41

[Jw224]

5 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Reviews are mixed so far. People are saying there is too much exposition, which seems to be JJ’s way of trying to make up for the LACK of exposition in 7 and 8. Nonetheless, most people seem to be saying it’s very satisfying from an emotional standpoint.

In a weird sorta way, I’m kinda glad that for once people aren’t walking out of premiere saying “it’s the best since Empire!” Maybe now, expectations can be more realistic for movies going forward, starting with this one.

On a more positive note, it looks like the big exposition dump early on in the film was also done so that this movie could work a bit more on its own, without 7 and 8, so I suppose that might please those who haven’t been happy with the other two films thus far.

If anything, nobody seems to be saying it’s a total disaster like GoT Season 8, at least.

There's definitely stuff I'm not at all happy about that happens in the film, but I am still looking forward to it and I'm sure I'll enjoy it a lot. I think I'm gonna see it on Saturday 😁

[downzy]

I'm kind of glad the reports indicate heavy amounts of exposition at the beginning of the film.  Unfortunately the series hasn't been setup very well thanks to TLJ not really answering anything.  So it leaves a lot for the ROS to manage and take care of.

Still have to get tickets for my wife and I.  

[CheapJon]

T-minus: 26 hours

[ZoSoRose]

Early reactions are mixed at best