STAR WARS: Convoluted Cash- Cow Disney Adventure Series That Will Never End Thread

[ZoSoRose]

Honestly I didnt think it was bad. it wasnt great, but still better than the prequels for me. It was not original though

 

 I'll write more tomorrow

[rocknroll41]

2 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

I didn't really think about it till after, but John Boyega's moves from being 1 of the centeral characters of previous films to just a side kick in the background.

Apart from 1 scene near the end and that might be pushing it, does his character really do anything? There also isn't really that much interaction between him Rey except a scene near the start. I mean they are in multiple scenes together, but they don't really talk.

I mean it's not like that was as much of a problem as the reused plot and the video game pacing/set up, but it is a little weird.

Also the Emperor having the power to shoot force lighting at all the rebels ships takes the cake for silliest scene.

Just 1 last thing, these films would have been much better if they just ditched the empire altogether, along with planet blowing up weapons and came up with a new story. However if d/d are involved with the next steps, perhaps people will look back at this one a little more fondly.

By “d/d” I assume you mean the Game of Thrones show-runners, right? If so, then allow me to break the news to you: They’re not involved with Star Wars anymore. They got fired a month ago.

[AtariLegend]

1 minute ago, rocknroll41 said:

By “d/d” I assume you mean the Game of Thrones show-runners, right? If so, then allow me to break the news to you: They’re not involved with Star Wars anymore. They got fired a month ago.

Just googled this.

It's very likely for the best. The end result would have made the backlash we're going to see to this and The Last Jedi look like nothing.

[rocknroll41]

18 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Just googled this.

It's very likely for the best. The end result would have made the backlash we're going to see to this and The Last Jedi look like nothing.

I agree, yeah.

[BadApples87]

Just saw the movie.

When did Palps have time to have kids and grandkids?  He seemed so busy in the prequels with his plot that he couldn't have had a family.  Maybe just doesn't mix business with pleasure?

Also, they missed a big opportunity at the end to have all the jedi show up as ghosts to fight Palps and his sith buddies.  Rather than just have Rey hear their voices, they should have come down and put the beatdown on Palps.

It's a fan service movie, that's why the critics hate it so much.  For me it was good but not great.  Kinda like all three of these movies.

Edited December 20, 2019 by BadApples87

[PatrickS77]

6 hours ago, Dazey said:

She died because Carrie Fisher died and they had to rely on previously shot footage for her scenes in the movie.

Ah. That's the Explanation. Right? Duh. I know that Fisher died, but just because Fisher died they didn't need to make her drop dead in the movie too. Especially considering Luke dropped dead in the movie before. They really should have let her float to her death in 8.

6 hours ago, Jw224 said:

It is clear why luke died. I think choosing to not accept an explanation is different than there not being one 🤷‍♀️

Oh, it's clear? And what would that explanation be?

Edited December 20, 2019 by PatrickS77

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I must admit I believe I detest Abrams as a filmmaker.

yeah JJ is a shit director. I can't comment on The Rise Of Skywalker yet and everybody got their own favorites when it comes to SW so that's cool, but I believe it's very possible to make a truly great SW movie that will be received well by critics and fans alike. Not with JJ though and it's hard enough for them to make a decent SW film without making trilogies. I think they should stop doing that shit and just make a stand alone film first, then they can try to make it bigger in scope.

Rogue One was the only modern SW film that was actually good imo (but still flawed) budget was smaller and they didn't just throw money and a shitload of special effects at it with a very bad and shallow script or convoluted mess like TLJ that was anti climactic.

I get that it's hard to find the balance between fan service and story development cause the SW fan base is so rabid, but the SW universe is so rich and iconic I have to think they will someday make a great one by not trying to make it something it's not and work within what has always worked. It's like both directors haven't seen the original SW films in years and most of the main cast lack charisma imo. Daisy Ridley is not a very good actress and the good actors usually don't get a good script to work with which is very unfortunate.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Rovim

[PatrickS77]

4 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

I didn't really think about it till after, but John Boyega's moves from being 1 of the centeral characters of previous films to just a side kick in the background.

Apart from 1 scene near the end and that might be pushing it, does his character really do anything? There also isn't really that much interaction between him Rey except a scene near the start. I mean they are in multiple scenes together, but they don't really talk.

Yeah. And also that he's a little lap dog always chasing after Rey, trying to save her... as if Superwoman needs saving. I mean, she can do anything. And if she really is in trouble, she has an almost Sith Lord bringing her back to live. 

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Back from the theater. The “Star Wars fan” part of my brain loved it! However, the “movie analysis” part of my brain didn’t like it at all. With that being said, I didn’t need this to be a good “movie.” I just needed it to be a good Star Wars. So (overall) I’m happy, and I’m (mostly) at peace with the saga.

I don’t quite know how to explain this but, even though I know this movie is objectively bad, something about it just “felt” right to me. It really left me on Cloud 9!

ill give more thoughts and a ranking in the spoiler thread, once I’ve had time to process it more.

That's honestly all I ask from a movie. It should give you a good feeling, at least in my opinion. 

I'm actually leaving for the theater in about 10 minutes, so I'll post my thoughts in about 3 1/2 - 4 hours or so

[rocknroll41]

I just saw it so I’m still on Cloud 9. Seeing it again on Saturday. Will have a better idea of where I rank it alongside the others then, but for now, I’d say:

GREAT
1.A New Hope 10/10
2.The Empire Strikes Back 10/10

GOOD
3.Return of the Jedi 9/10

FINE
4.The Rise of Skywalker 8/10
5.Solo 8/10
6.The Force Awakens 8/10
7.Revenge of the Sith 7/10
8.The Phantom Menace 7/10
9.Rogue One 7/10
10.The Last Jedi 7/10

BAD
11.Attack of the Clones 5/10

On paper, TRoS is dumb, but in execution, you can “feel” the heart that it has.

Also, just wanna add that I’m happy the audience score on rotten tomatoes is high! A nice reversal from TLJ!

Edited December 20, 2019 by rocknroll41

[PatrickS77]

3 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Back from the theater. The “Star Wars fan” part of my brain loved it! However, the “movie analysis” part of my brain didn’t like it at all. With that being said, I didn’t need this to be a good “movie.” I just needed it to be a good Star Wars. So (overall) I’m happy, and I’m (mostly) at peace with the saga.

I don’t quite know how to explain this but, even though I know this movie is objectively bad, something about it just “felt” right to me. It really left me on Cloud 9!

ill give more thoughts and a ranking in the spoiler thread, once I’ve had time to process it more.

And for the life of me I can't figure out why one would say that (Star Wars) movie was okay or right (and especially from people who pan the prequel trilogy). Because really, nothing was "right".

Edited December 20, 2019 by PatrickS77

[Jw224]

2 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Ah. That's the Explanation. Right? Duh. I know that Fisher died, but just because Fisher died they didn't need to make her drop dead in the movie too. Especially considering Luke dropped dead in the movie before. They really should have let her float to her death in 8.

Oh, it's clear? And what would that explanation be?

He clearly sacrificed himself by force projecting himself across space. I thought that was pretty clear when I watched it. 

[PatrickS77]

26 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

He clearly sacrificed himself by force projecting himself across space. I thought that was pretty clear when I watched it. 

Right. Then why didn't Ren and Rey drop dead when they did the same thing?

[DieselDaisy]

The whole trilogy pertaining to Rey, Kylo Ren and others (Luke, Leia, Palpatine), especially in Last Jedi and this, resides on what I'd call pseudo-philosophical Jedi gibberish; both Johnson and Abrahms exploit the open canvas that is the religion of the Jedi to circumnavigate writing errors, plot loopholes and a paucity of ideas. ''Yes, Luke sort of becomes an intergalactic force ghost''. Baloney. It is just lazy storytelling.

Edited December 20, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Jw224]

43 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Right. Then why didn't Ren and Rey drop dead when they did the same thing?

Luke hadn't used the force in years and had just recently started again when he used it. And Snoke helped bridge their minds. 

[RussTCB]

Just got out. It was everything I wanted it to be. Loved it 

[RussTCB]

What a fun ride. I loved it 

[Jw224]

32 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The whole trilogy pertaining to Rey, Kylo Ren and others (Luke, Leia, Palpatine), especially in Last Jedi and this, resides on what I'd call pseudo-philosophical Jedi gibberish; both Johnson and Abrahms exploit the open canvas that is the religion of the Jedi to circumnavigate writing errors, plot loopholes and a paucity of ideas. ''Yes, Luke sort of becomes an intergalactic force ghost''. Baloney. It is just lazy storytelling.

I dunno, I feel like what you guys want is for them never add anything to the already established stuff. They could do anything and you would call it an excuse for stuff to happen. 

7 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

What a fun ride. I loved it 

I'm gonna go see it today or tomorrow. Can't wait to see Palpatine again 😁

[PatrickS77]

39 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The whole trilogy pertaining to Rey, Kylo Ren and others (Luke, Leia, Palpatine), especially in Last Jedi and this, resides on what I'd call pseudo-philosophical Jedi gibberish; both Johnson and Abrahms exploit the open canvas that is the religion of the Jedi to circumnavigate writing errors, plot loopholes and a paucity of ideas. ''Yes, Luke sort of becomes an intergalactic force ghost''. Baloney. It is just lazy storytelling.

Exactly. And really, they give a shit what a Jedi, as established in 6 movies, tv series, countless books, comics and computer games that where released in 30 years really is. They give a shit about the rules this galaxy far far away has when it comes to what Jedi are and what they can and can not do and come up with shit as they please. And people overlook that and claim it's "real" Star Wars, when in fact it's bollocks.

38 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

Luke hadn't used the force in years and had just recently started again when he used it. And Snoke helped bridge their minds. 

Yeah. Just as the writers, making up shit as you go along to justify the crap they threw on the screen. That's not how Star Wars (or any story) works. Rey hadn't used the force before either and there was no Snoke in Rise.

Edited December 20, 2019 by PatrickS77

[Jw224]

33 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Exactly. And really, they give a shit what a Jedi, as established in 6 movies, tv series, countless books, comics and computer games that where released in 30 years really is. They give a shit about the rules this galaxy far far away has when it comes to what Jedi are and what they can and can not do and come up with shit as they please. And people overlook that and claim it's "real" Star Wars, when in fact it's bollocks.

Yeah. Just as the writers, making up shit as you go along to justify the crap they threw on the screen. That's not how Star Wars (or any story) works. Rey hadn't used the force before either and there was no Snoke in Rise.

That makes absolutely no sense you're basically saying the people that wrote the film wrote the film to justify the fact that they are making a bad film in advance. Just because you disagree with what happened does not make it lazy. Snoke was Palpatine. You disagree with what happened in the film, that's fine, this does not make it lazy. The stuff that happens in the film is explained within the film. It's very clear why luke died. The writers didn't write the film and then after filming go "oh no we don't have a reason for why luke died better make one up". 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Jw224

[PatrickS77]

10 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

That makes absolutely no sense you're basically saying the people that wrote the film wrote the film to justify the fact that they are making a bad film in advance. Just because you disagree with what happened does not make it lazy. Snoke was Palpatine. You disagree with what happened in the film, that's fine, this does not make it lazy. 

No. What you're saying makes no sense and is not what I was saying. I'm saying we know since over 30 years what Jedi are and what they can do. Force projection, force projections fights across galaxies, force ghosts that fight, like they are physically present, force telephone video calls across galaxies, force healing mortal wounds of others, force raising the dead is not in their skillset. Never was. Until some writers thought, "What the hell? Let's make them do that.". And yes, to say "Gotcha. Palpatine was never dead and spent the last 30 years in hiding, with some metal arm up his ass." is lazy writing and really undoes and cheapens the original trilogy. Nevermind the missing explanation of what went on in those 30 years and why really nothing has changed, except the name of the empire. And for that the ruined and discarded the EU. That's lazy and poor as fuck.

And you act like the writers, making up and inventing shit, to make sense of the shit they put on screen. People go crazy that Lucas dared to mention midichlorians, but that shit Disney did is acceptable?

[Jw224]

22 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

No. What you're saying makes no sense and is not what I was saying. I'm saying we know since over 30 years what Jedi are and what they can do. Force projection, force projections fights across galaxies, force ghosts that fight, like they are physically present, force telephone video calls across galaxies, force healing mortal wounds of others, force raising the dead is not in their skillset. Never was. Until some writers thought, "What the hell? Let's make them do that.". And yes, to say "Gotcha. Palpatine was never dead and spent the last 30 years in hiding, with some metal arm up his ass." is lazy writing and really undoes and cheapens the original trilogy. Nevermind the missing explanation of what went on in those 30 years and why really nothing has changed, except the name of the empire. And for that the ruined and discarded the EU. That's lazy and poor as fuck.

And you act like the writers, making up and inventing shit, to make sense of the shit they put on screen. People go crazy that Lucas dared to mention midichlorians, but that shit Disney did is acceptable?

They didn't just decide that that Luke was going to die after they finished filming the movie, which is the only way what you're saying makes any sense. They came up with it and then came up with reason why, which is in the film and makes perfect sense. I agree about TROS being lazy, I don't think TLJ was at all. I feel like a lot of fans would be happier if they just stuck with everything that was established before and not change or add anything. That's very boring and how franchises stagnate. I want to see new things in star wars, and I won't get angry when I see them.

Anyway I don't really want to fill this thread with this stuff so I'll just leave it there. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Jw224

[PatrickS77]

6 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

They didn't just decide that that Luke was going to die after they finished filming the movie, which is the only way what you're saying makes any sense. They came up with it and then came up with reason why, which is in the film and makes perfect sense. I agree about TROS being lazy, I don't think TLJ was at all. I feel like a lot of fans would be happier if they just stuck with everything that was established before and not change or add anything. That's very boring and how franchises stagnate. I want to see new things in star wars, and I won't get angry when I see them. 

Show me where I said that they decided after the fact that Luke was gonna die??? I said it makes no sense for him to die like that, for no apparent reason. If that force projection fight, as you make it up, killed him, then Rey and Ren should be dead too. Rey is not even suffienctly trained in the force. And spare me the crap of her being Palpatine's offspring. Another bs contrievance. And really, if they want to kill him anyway, I'd preferred if they would have just gotten his ass over there and let him die in a real fight.

I want them to tell an exciting, coherent and interesting story, within the parameters set forth of what Jedi are (hundreds of books, comics and computergames were able to do that). Not the crap they invented and added to gloss over the fact that they don't really have a story.

[DieselDaisy]

They didn't plan any of this, as Abrams had to retroactively fix Johnson's story to continue with his own - Abrams wouldn't have killed Snork.

The whole trilogy is an utter mess.

PS 

And Abrams would't have had Luke repudiate the Jedi, flinging his lightsaber again. It was so obvious, Abrams retroactively fixing that: (Luke's force ghost to Rey) ''yeh, I was just giving in to fear at the time ''.

Edited December 20, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[appetite4illusions]

What I really don't care for in this film is there is no attempt to explain "why."

We start the film and it's like we've missed a whole forty minutes of buildup as to how this malevolent evil has resurrected itself. Instead, it's like coming home from a long days work and your house is completely haunted - there's no reason why  this is happening - you're just knee deep in ghosts and you haven't even got your work clothes off yet.

Edited December 20, 2019 by appetite4illusions