Nirvana film

[Len Cnut]

Fucking criminal

[EvanG]

It's not real. A fan made it.

I know there's been talk of a real movie for a long time, but I don't know how I would feel about it. It would have to be raw and artsy, kinda like Last Days, otherwise I don't think I'd be into it.

[Len Cnut]

Oh thank fuck for that.  I hope its never done.  Last Days was perfect, thats enough.

[action]

12 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Fucking criminal

this feels .... unnecessary

there was this documentary / film earlier with an accompanying album, which I though was far more respectful and tasteful than this. It was a mix of art / reality that evokes kurt's vision better.

this, is just sensationalist

[Len Cnut]

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this feels .... unnecessary

there was this documentary / film earlier with an accompanying album, which I though was far more respectful and tasteful than this. It was a mix of art / reality that evokes kurt's vision better.

this, is just sensationalist

As actual proper narrative cinema goes I think Last Days was fucking brilliant, chiefly because it just sort of used the iconography and then made a fiction from there on, making clear that it was in no way meant to be reflective of any kind of reality.  And it was this really minimalist artsy film, I think it fit the subject matter and was respectful enough to the guy and what he was about.  A fuckin' artsy Gus Van Sant movie is what the boy deserved.

Whats REALLY odd for me, as a huge fan of Nirvana and Cobain, is the deification of him.  I don't know why but it just doesn't fit.  Every time he's called a legend it just seems unsuitable.  He does really have that otherworldly quality that other legends do, people like Jimi Hendrix or what have you.  Attempts to romanticise the 90s always fall flat for me, perhaps its too familiar.  Its weird to think there are kids around now who look at Cobain as like...some kinda ghost or something, some kinda legendary way back when thing. 

He really was a silly boy.  Shouldn't've done what he did. 

 

[F*ck Fear]

Soaked In Bleach changed my opinion on what happened during Cobain's last days.

[action]

54 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

As actual proper narrative cinema goes I think Last Days was fucking brilliant, chiefly because it just sort of used the iconography and then made a fiction from there on, making clear that it was in no way meant to be reflective of any kind of reality.  And it was this really minimalist artsy film, I think it fit the subject matter and was respectful enough to the guy and what he was about.  A fuckin' artsy Gus Van Sant movie is what the boy deserved.

Whats REALLY odd for me, as a huge fan of Nirvana and Cobain, is the deification of him.  I don't know why but it just doesn't fit.  Every time he's called a legend it just seems unsuitable.  He does really have that otherworldly quality that other legends do, people like Jimi Hendrix or what have you.  Attempts to romanticise the 90s always fall flat for me, perhaps its too familiar.  Its weird to think there are kids around now who look at Cobain as like...some kinda ghost or something, some kinda legendary way back when thing. 

He really was a silly boy.  Shouldn't've done what he did. 

 

montage of heck it was called. it featured kurt's voice throughout, as some sort of narrative. the guy recorded his life story on tape. it then was fitted with animation / art from his vault. you can't get more authentic than that. watched it once, but never again though. it felt like a "one time experience", a short glimpse in his mindset. it effectively managed to view kurt's work in a new light. all the director had to do was to compilate / montage the material he had, he could have easily screwed up but I think it turned out right.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, action said:

montage of heck it was called. it featured kurt's voice throughout, as some sort of narrative. the guy recorded his life story on tape. it then was fitted with animation / art from his vault. you can't get more authentic than that. watched it once, but never again though. it felt like a "one time experience", a short glimpse in his mindset. it effectively managed to view kurt's work in a new light. all the director had to do was to compilate / montage the material he had, he could have easily screwed up but I think it turned out right.

Yeah, I kinda watched it once too...dunno why but I kinda knew when I watched it that I'd only watch it the one.  There's something weird about reading the published journals and watching the home videos of a man that killed himself, at least in part, because he struggled with the intrusive nature of fame.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Len Cnut

[EvanG]

10 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Yeah, I kinda watched it once too...dunno why but I kinda knew when I watched it that I'd only watch it the one.  There's something weird about reading the published journals and watching the home videos of a man that killed himself, at least in part, because he struggled with the intrusive nature of pain.

Buzz Osborne from the Melvins (who had been Kurt's friend since high school) wrote a negative review on it. That's kinda how he is, but he made some good points in it. https://www.talkhouse.com/buzz-osborne-the-melvins-talks/

The thing with Kurt is... he talked so much bullshit and fabricated so many stories about himself. Even in his journals he was already making up stories and trying to create this image of himself that wasn't true, and this was before he was famous. 

44 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

Soaked In Bleach changed my opinion on what happened during Cobain's last days.

I've tried to take those murder conspiracies seriously, but I just can't. It was obvious that this guy had a death wish.

[Len Cnut]

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Buzz Osborne from the Melvins (who had been Kurt's friend since high school) wrote a negative review on it. That's kinda how he is, but he made some good points in it. https://www.talkhouse.com/buzz-osborne-the-melvins-talks/

Yeah I remember he was kicking off around the time of the release wasn't he?

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The thing with Kurt is... he talked so much bullshit and fabricated so many stories about himself

How much of what you hear about the lives of famous people do you think is true anyway?  He spoke some bullshit, yeah but I don't think it was above average, silly stuff more than anything. 

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Even in his journals he was already making up stories and trying to create this image of himself that wasn't true, and this was before he was famous. 

I don't think he thought anybody was ever gonna read that shit, at least not in a public published big time kinda way, a lot of that shit was just pads he doodled and messed around with.  I bought that shit when it came out in hardback, that was my weed rolling tray for years

[EvanG]

23 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

How much of what you hear about the lives of famous people do you think is true anyway?  He spoke some bullshit, yeah but I don't think it was above average, silly stuff more than anything. 

True, but I think in Kurt's case it was a lot more. Whether it was in interviews or the stories he wrote himself, everything was done in order to create something that he wasn't or to make himself look mysterious. I'm sure more people do that, but this guy had made an art out of it.

I read his official biography Heavier Than Heaven. A lot of fans don't like it, but it debunks a lot of the myths around him and it is as objective as possible. It's definitely not too flattering. The public will probably never get closer to know Kurt Cobain anyway because he was an enigma, and that is probably half the appeal to a lot of people. In his house he had written ''none of you will ever know my intentions'' on the wall before his death and that's more true than anything and probably for the best.

[Len Cnut]

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True, but I think in Kurt's case it was a lot more. Whether it was in interviews or the stories he wrote himself, everything was done in order to create something that he wasn't or to make himself look mysterious. I'm sure more people do that, but this guy had made an art out of it.

Perhaps the only reason you think that is because you've looked into his life in such detail but trust me there are plenty worse, Kurt is pretty below average, its silly shit he made up and a lot of it didn't do him many favours image-wise. 

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I read his official biography Heavier Than Heaven. A lot of fans don't like it, but it debunks a lot of the myths around him and it is as objective as possible. It's definitely not too flattering.

Really?  That books considered like, the glossy look at his life, the Courtney approved account.  I think its a really good book though, the only one I've read aside from the famous Michael Azzerad book from way back in the day.  The myths it debunks, what, he never lived under a bridge etc etc, again, really piddling shit.

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The public will probably never get closer to know Kurt Cobain anyway because he was an enigma, and that is probably half the appeal to a lot of people. In his house he had written ''none of you will ever know my intentions'' on the wall before his death and that's more true than anything and probably for the best.

I dunno, I don't think there was anything that enigmatic about it, I think he was pretty much an open book.  Not in the sense that he was 100% frank and honest, more than he was kind of a conflicted young person that was or appeared pretty easy to figure out.  I'm not sure that there was anything to figure out. 

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Really?  That books considered like, the glossy look at his life, the Courtney approved account.  I think its a really good book though, the only one I've read aside from the famous Michael Azzerad book from way back in the day.  The myths it debunks, what, he never lived under a bridge etc etc, again, really piddling shit.

Maybe because Courtney approved it people are automatically against it? I don't see how it's a glossy look at his life. So much in the book makes Kurt look like an asshole, and neither does Courtney come off that great a lot of the times. It's as detailed and objective as can be, from my understanding. To my knowledge, this is the only book that has interviewed so many people from Kurt's life, from childhood friends, family, teachers, to people later on in life. Even Buzz is part of it and he doesn't bullshit around. It paints the best picture possible to try and figure this guy out and how he was in the eyes of all those people who had been part of his life. Still it will never be perfect, but that's not possible anyway. I don't really see the criticism. Except that he fictionalized the last chapter, that was a big mistake the author shouldn't have made.

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I dunno, I don't think there was anything that enigmatic about it, I think he was pretty much an open book.  Not in the sense that he was 100% frank and honest, more than he was kind of a conflicted young person that was or appeared pretty easy to figure out.  I'm not sure that there was anything to figure out. 

Maybe you're right, and he was definitely conflicted, but I think there was more to it and that he was very different from how most people portray him.

[Len Cnut]

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Maybe because Courtney approved it people are automatically against it? I don't see how it's a glossy look at his life. So much in the book makes Kurt look like an asshole, and neither does Courtney come off that great a lot of the times. It's as detailed and objective as can be, from my understanding. To my knowledge, this is the only book that has interviewed so many people from Kurt's life, from childhood friends, family, teachers, to people later on in life. Even Buzz is part of it and he doesn't bullshit around. It paints the best picture possible to try and figure this guy out and how he was in the eyes of all those people who had been part of his life. Still it will never be perfect, but that's not possible anyway. I don't really see the criticism. Except that he fictionalized the last chapter, that was a big mistake the author shouldn't have made.

Yeah, I thought it was quite good myself, kinda definitive, didn't really need another one after that.  Kurt bio I mean.  Though I'll rarely read more than one bio on anyone, they'd have to be pretty special, not that Kurt isn't, I just don't think there's much more to it.  So much in the book makes him look a bit of an arsehole, yeah I suppose but not inordinately, I mean I usually go into any biography expecting that as standard, you ain't gonna read a truthful account of anyones ENTIRE life without them looking an arsehole in it several times.

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Maybe you're right, and he was definitely conflicted, but I think there was more to it and that he was very different from how most people portray him.

A little bitchy, a little bratty, a little self interested, often earnest, sometimes calculating...but I think overall he was coming from an alright place.  Wanted to care more than he actually did, I definitely get a bit of that from him.  But over and above all this shit is the work, I really needed that shit.  I just went out to get some lunch and, probably off the strength of this conversation, stuck on a bit of Nirvana...been years since I REALLY listened to his stuff, I can see what I saw in it, still know all the fuckin' words.  But listening to it its like...what gets you most is the music, simple, driving, forceful, plus his voice and its ability to convey passion, real or otherwise, what matters is that it sounds real.  I needed that shit.  Life is so shite when you're a kid, or at least thats how I felt.  I mean go down the rabbit hole of youtube and check out what was on the telly back in the day, all mullets and Australian soaps, Grange Hill and fucking crap gameshows.  In your early teens a little disordered screaming from a little gaunt looking junkie imp is, to my mind, a very valuable social contribution. 

[EvanG]

^ good post. I completely agree about the music. The reason I liked the book is because it describes many facets of his personality. He could be very selfish, narcissistic, extremely passive aggressive, he mistreated and took advantage of people, he committed crimes up until the end of his life, he alienated Krist and Dave from the band at the end, and so much more. It was refreshing to read because he has become this larger than life persona through the years and often publications neglect or simply don't know about all the negative sides. He also had many great qualities, but he was a lot more than this empathetic, sweet, sensitive, tortured artist guy who was too pure for this world and therefore had to take his own life, which is the romantic image a lot of people hold onto.

 

[Len Cnut]

On 22/02/2020 at 3:37 PM, EvanG said:

^ good post. I completely agree about the music. The reason I liked the book is because it describes many facets of his personality. He could be very selfish, narcissistic, extremely passive aggressive, he mistreated and took advantage of people, he committed crimes up until the end of his life, he alienated Krist and Dave from the band at the end, and so much more. It was refreshing to read because he has become this larger than life persona through the years and often publications neglect or simply don't know about all the negative sides. He also had many great qualities, but he was a lot more than this empathetic, sweet, sensitive, tortured artist guy who was too pure for this world and therefore had to take his own life, which is the romantic image a lot of people hold onto.

 

It should be taken for granted by any reasonable human being that no one is like...so absoute y'know?  In anything.  There is no pure evil or pure sweet or pure sensitive etc etc.  And you do the person a disservice by making them so because you learn more about life and the world from the truth about people than you do a bunch of horseshit.  Its been interesting for me to see the deification of someone who I kinda remember over a number of years because it kinda makes you look at things in a real light.  I can never buy Kurt Christ because I kinda saw the real guy and liked him for the real guy, the flaws are what made him (and indeed everyone, including Christ) interesting. 

But I really liked that boy.  The music really takes me back to places, in a way few others do anymore.  There's something fantastically elemental about it that I could probably bore your brains out talking about but way back when when I first heard it it wasn't something I could put into words, you just felt it.  Perhaps it just caught me at that sweet spot in life, where I was just ready to take in what I thought it to be saying.  I dunno.

[action]

18 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

It should be taken for granted by any reasonable human being that no one is like...so absoute y'know?  In anything.  There is no pure evil or pure sweet or pure sensitive etc etc.  And you do the person a disservice by making them so because you learn more about life and the world from the truth about people than you do a bunch of horseshit.  Its been interesting for me to see the deification of someone who I kinda remember over a number of years because it kinda makes you look at things in a real light.  I can never buy Kurt Christ because I kinda saw the real guy and liked him for the real guy, the flaws are what made him (and indeed everyone, including Christ) interesting. 

But I really liked that boy.  The music really takes me back to places, in a way few others do anymore.  There's something fantastically elemental about it that I could probably bore your brains out talking about but way back when when I first heard it it wasn't something I could put into words, you just felt it.  Perhaps it just caught me at that sweet spot in life, where I was just ready to take in what I thought it to be saying.  I dunno.

I think I can understand what you're hinting at, and I think incesticide represents this the best. the twisted screams, the almost "beavis and butthead" way to look at life and society. Me and my buddy would smoke weed on this song, and by the time hairspray queen came up, it was legendary. We used to call help centers by this point (you know, the kind that asks "what can I find for you"), and record our conversation to listen to it the next day.

Edited February 27, 2020 by action

[EvanG]

On 27-2-2020 at 11:36 AM, Len Cnut said:

 The music really takes me back to places, in a way few others do anymore. 

I sometimes go through a phase when I listen to Nirvana again but it's mostly In Utero or some outtakes or b-side stuff. I feel that Nevermind didn't age that well, maybe because it's such a sterile sounding record, for a lack of a better word, or because those songs are so overplayed. I prefer In Utero anyway, there's a little bit of everything on there. It's a shame we will never know how he would have evolved as a songwriter. The song ''Do Re Mi'', probably one of the last ones he wrote, is one of the best songs he has written, in my opinion.

[Len Cnut]

Just now, EvanG said:

I sometimes go through a phase when I listen to Nirvana again but it's mostly In Utero or some outtakes or b-side stuff. I feel that Nevermind didn't age that well, maybe because it's such a sterile sounding record, for a lack of a better word, or because those songs are so overplayed. I prefer In Utero anyway, there's a little bit of everything on there. It's a shame we will never know how he would have evolved as a songwriter. The song ''Do Re Mi'', probably one of the last ones he wrote, is one of the best songs he has written, in my opinion.

I really like I Hate Myself & I Wanna Die, Curmudgeon.  As for Nevermind, I agree but like...I think a lot less people would've thought that if Kurt hadn't've gone on about it, it didn't sound sterile when it came out, it sounded the bollocks.  But then a load of kids got an education in punk (a great many of the back of liking Nevermind) and starting going 'this sounds sterile y'know'.

[EvanG]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I really like I Hate Myself & I Wanna Die, Curmudgeon.  As for Nevermind, I agree but like...I think a lot less people would've thought that if Kurt hadn't've gone on about it, it didn't sound sterile when it came out, it sounded the bollocks.  But then a load of kids got an education in punk (a great many of the back of liking Nevermind) and starting going 'this sounds sterile y'know'.

Probably, but I also prefer the Nevermind demos to the Butch Vig final version. Some bands can pull it off but a garage band like Nirvana shouldn't have such a clean production, I think. But it's hard to explain why some songs age better than others. Some songs will never get old while others don't do the same thing to you anymore after hearing them one time too many and I have that with a lot of the Nevermind songs. 

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

Probably, but I also prefer the Nevermind demos to the Butch Vig final version. Some bands can pull it off but a garage band like Nirvana shouldn't have such a clean production, I think. But it's hard to explain why some songs age better than others. Some songs will never get old while others don't do the same thing to you anymore after hearing them one time too many and I have that with a lot of the Nevermind songs. 

I think Nevermind aged, personally, because I just listened to it to death.  At that age I only had like a handful of albums and those just got fuckin' ragged. 

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I think Nevermind aged, personally, because I just listened to it to death.  At that age I only had like a handful of albums and those just got fuckin' ragged. 

And you can't escape some songs... Come As You Are, Teen Spirit, Lithium... they still get a lot of airplay to this day and those songs are rather monotonous anyway.

Also, Nevermind was a great record to play along to as a beginning guitarist. I spent countless of hours playing along to it as well. It's only normal you become bored with them sooner or later.

[EvanG]

I was thinking of some of their deep cuts that always spoke even more to me than some of their hits,

Even In His Youth

Oh, The Guilt

Old Age

Blandest

Curmudgeon

[Len Cnut]

20 minutes ago, EvanG said:

 

Oh, The Guilt

Curmudgeon

LOVE those two.  Especially Curmudgeon.  I think there is a lot of potential in Kurts song writing and guitar work and what they suggested was possible with the pop structure than people give it credit for.  It seems he's lauded for the wrong things.

[RussTCB]

On 2/22/2020 at 6:25 AM, F*ck Fear said:

Soaked In Bleach changed my opinion on what happened during Cobain's last days.

Same here. It really seems like there's something to it after having watched Soaked In Bleach.