allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said: In Germany they are currently doing quite a lot of drive-In shows. Acts like Doro Pesch or Nena have/had a couple scheduled. Also the biggest indoor arena in Germany, Cologne's Lanxess arena is doing social distancing shows. That place is big enough, so they have smaller acts with quite a crowd, as they wouldn't fill up the place anyone. Not sure how that works though in terms of having to pay the rent for the place. But then again, it's a series of concerts in that arena, so probably different rules apply. As for the Dublin anouncement, it now says on Ticketmaster: A note from event organisers: “We are still working on European 2021 dates. It will be another week before finalising. We appreciate your patience & apologies for any inconvenience caused - hold on to your tickets and thank you for your support. Best wishes, MCD Productions. That's an idea that I haven't heard played with in the UK actually - that of booking a small act into a much larger venue in order to be able to balance the books. Yeah, I'm not sure how that works with the cost of actually hiring or opening an Arena sized building though. Perhaps as you say, with it being a series of concerts the venue has been generous, or feels they can reduce the overheads sufficiently to make it worthwhile. As a one-off I can't think that it would be viable to use an Arena. Hmmm.....they've removed the date then about Dublin! I'd say if America gets the dates on the 27th, Europe would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, allwaystired said: You'll have to trust me on this one - I'm closely involved with smaller venues, and they simply can't manage shows with social distancing. A big part of that is no promoter could make overheads meet in smaller venues with the limited capacity that smaller venues have. The maths just doesn't work. You have to remember that a lot of shows only turn profits if capacity is 70% and over. For some venues (of which the Royal Opera House is one, bizarrely) capacity has to be over 90%. So no promoter will hire a venue, pay the bands fee etc as they know that they can't legally sell enough tickets to get anywhere near covering their outlay. Internal promotion carries the same risks, less the venue hire (but remember that a huge amount of any venues gigs comes from external promotions). There are absolutely many venues that can operate with social distancing to produce a profit. Never said it would be all. As I said think this will benefit the smallest venues upwards the best. Even when you get to theatre sized venues then it can be a cost juggling exercise. But the 500 and less capacity places will be happy to open. Ideally lessons are learned form these smaller openings and applied to the 'bigger' gigs that are being planned for October. Assuming the virus trends downwards then the small events at the end year will go ahead. 17 minutes ago, allwaystired said: The venues that closed weren't (worryingly) actually in bad financial condition. The Manchester ones especially were very healthy and busy venues, which is very concerning. if they were tin-pot operations I suppose it would be easier to understand. Indeed but there's a big difference between being in a dire financial situation and not being able to pay 4+ months of rent and fees for multiple venues with no income. Way more chance of the company that owns the venue going into administration. Realistically the successful venues will probably be back, even if renamed and under a new company. 18 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Again, with the drive-in gigs, I've been told it was an insurance issue- because of the higher risk of cancellation, the rates they were being quoted were exorbitant and they couldn't make the money-side work. Obviously the fact that they could be cancelled at any moment was the main reason for this. My (entirely speculative) guess is that we will start to see larger gigs, both outside and indoors, around May of next year. Before that I think we'll see a sprinkling of 'experimental' type shows, such as the drive-in shows were attempting. Yeah as I said above there's no way the organisers were willing to pay the premium that stemmed from the ability of local councils to cancel the gig at a moments notice. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53428307 Gives a decent over view. They go into some socially distanced gigs that are set for next month (outside though). The music/event industry is worth too much to close down for this long just like the pubs were. People need jobs and recreational activities. The last few months have shown us that online just isn't the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: There are absolutely many venues that can operate with social distancing to produce a profit. Never said it would be all. As I said think this will benefit the smallest venues upwards the best. Even when you get to theatre sized venues then it can be a cost juggling exercise. But the 500 and less capacity places will be happy to open. Ideally lessons are learned form these smaller openings and applied to the 'bigger' gigs that are being planned for October. Assuming the virus trends downwards then the small events at the end year will go ahead. Indeed but there's a big difference between being in a dire financial situation and not being able to pay 4+ months of rent and fees for multiple venues with no income. Way more chance of the company that owns the venue going into administration. Realistically the successful venues will probably be back, even if renamed and under a new company. Yeah as I said above there's no way the organisers were willing to pay the premium that stemmed from the ability of local councils to cancel the gig at a moments notice. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53428307 Gives a decent over view. They go into some socially distanced gigs that are set for next month (outside though). The music/event industry is worth too much to close down for this long just like the pubs were. People need jobs and recreational activities. The last few months have shown us that online just isn't the same. Only 13% of music venues feel they can reopen with social distancing. It's financially ruinious. Smaller venues won't be opening under social distancing rules. It can't really be argued otherwise. Think of a small venue, then imagine everyone in it 2 metres apart. You'd be talking about 5-10 people in many venues. Have a look at the various reports of the Music Venue Trust for more information. There's a good summary of one of them here: https://www.nme.com/news/music/only-13-of-uk-grassroots-music-venues-say-they-could-reopen-with-two-metre-social-distancing-2692991 Sadly, I don't think indoor live music will be back in any meaningful form until the rules around social distancing don't exist. That's the only chance of shows being viable for smaller to medium venues. Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 22 minutes ago, allwaystired said: That's an idea that I haven't heard played with in the UK actually - that of booking a small act into a much larger venue in order to be able to balance the books. Yeah, I'm not sure how that works with the cost of actually hiring or opening an Arena sized building though. Perhaps as you say, with it being a series of concerts the venue has been generous, or feels they can reduce the overheads sufficiently to make it worthwhile. As a one-off I can't think that it would be viable to use an Arena. Hmmm.....they've removed the date then about Dublin! I'd say if America gets the dates on the 27th, Europe would too. I guess it's all about making the best out of the situation and come up with ideas that work for everybody. Even if it means, making less money than they used to. I saw the Jacksons once playing in front of 1,000 people in an arena that holds 15,000. And I would have bet that that one gets cancelled too, like all the other shows. If there is a will, there is a way. If you can find sponsors to chip in, as mostly there are radio stations involved, also in the aforementioned drive-in shows, it might be worthwhile. It certainly isn't easy though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said: I guess it's all about making the best out of the situation and come up with ideas that work for everybody. Even if it means, making less money than they used to. I saw the Jacksons once playing in front of 1,000 people in an arena that holds 15,000. And I would have bet that that one gets cancelled too, like all the other shows. If there is a will, there is a way. If you can find sponsors to chip in, as mostly there are radio stations involved, also in the aforementioned drive-in shows, it might be worthwhile. It certainly isn't easy though. Haha- was that a 'poor ticket sales' situation? if so, I'm amazed they didn't pull the plug on that one, or at least downgrade the venue! That's true - if the Arena has agreed sponsorship for a concert 'series' that might make things easier. Must be quite a weird experience for fans though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, allwaystired said: Haha- was that a 'poor ticket sales' situation? if so, I'm amazed they didn't pull the plug on that one, or at least downgrade the venue! That's true - if the Arena has agreed sponsorship for a concert 'series' that might make things easier. Must be quite a weird experience for fans though! Yeah. It was. I guess it was purely to save face. They had about 8 concerts scheduled throughout Germany and one after the other got cancelled. It was sad to watch. Well, it also was sad to watch them at a "private" show in such a big place, but we had an awesome time. The show was seated, but everyone could just come down to the stage. The concert was great. A shame that people didn't give them a chance without Michael. But I'm sure though there wasn't any money made that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said: Yeah. It was. I guess it was purely to save face. They had about 8 concerts scheduled throughout Germany and one after the other got cancelled. It was sad to watch. Well, it also was sad to watch them at a "private" show in such a big place, but we had an awesome time. The show was seated, but everyone could just come down to the stage. The concert was great. A shame that people didn't give them a chance without Michael. But I'm sure though there wasn't any money made that night. Wow, I'd have thought they would be a decent draw without MJ. Someone must have a lost a lot of money on that tour! Credit to them for going out and doing the show anyway! Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Wow, I'd have thought they would be a decent draw without MJ. Credit to them for going out and doing the show anyway! Sadly, they are only in certain countries. They are a good draw in the UK, the Netherlands, parts of the USA and some other countries, that don't get many international acts. Apparently they are not a good draw in Germany and Austria. Michael Jackson fans sadly are not really Jackson 5/Jacksons fans and especially when he's not there, as many really only became fans when he went solo. It's a damn shame, because the Jackson 5/Jacksons have a great catalog. Yeah. Credit definitely goes to them. Janet would just have cancelled. Edited July 21, 2020 by PatrickS77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said: I guess it's all about making the best out of the situation and come up with ideas that work for everybody. Even if it means, making less money than they used to. I saw the Jacksons once playing in front of 1,000 people in an arena that holds 15,000. And I would have bet that that one gets cancelled too, like all the other shows. If there is a will, there is a way. If you can find sponsors to chip in, as mostly there are radio stations involved, also in the aforementioned drive-in shows, it might be worthwhile. It certainly isn't easy though. Very good point. Could be quite a good investment for some companies to essentially get exclusive 'dibs' of live events via sponsorship. 17 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Only 13% of music venues feel they can reopen with social distancing. It's financially ruinious. Smaller venues won't be opening under social distancing rules. It can't really be argued otherwise. Think of a small venue, then imagine everyone in it 2 metres apart. You'd be talking about 5-10 people in many venues. Have a look at the various reports of the Music Venue Trust for more information. There's a good summary of one of them here: https://www.nme.com/news/music/only-13-of-uk-grassroots-music-venues-say-they-could-reopen-with-two-metre-social-distancing-2692991 Sadly, I don't think indoor live music will be back in any meaningful form until the rules around social distancing don't exist. That's the only chance of shows being viable for smaller to medium venues. Tbh I'd take anything from the NME with a huge spoonful of salt. This is also before the big stimulus to arts that the UK put through which the MVT praised. And of course smaller venues are opening under social distancing. That's the impetus for the move to 1m social distancing so one way or another these venues will have to adapt or perish. So far I've seen ticket sales have been pretty good and (as mentioned in that article) audiences want to return to gigs. The money is there, venues just have to monetise their crowd correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said: Sadly, they are only in certain countries. They are a good draw in the UK, the Netherlands, parts of the USA and some other countries, that don't get many international acts. Apparently they are not a good draw in Germany and Austria. Michael Jackson fans sadly are not really Jackson 5/Jacksons fans and especially when he's not there, as many really only became fans when he went solo. It's a damn shame, because the Jackson 5/Jacksons have a great catalog. They seem to do lower-level festivals in the UK, rather than their own shows, so it could be the same here! Shame, as you say the Jacksons are a classic act. 11 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: Very good point. Could be quite a good investment for some companies to essentially get exclusive 'dibs' of live events via sponsorship. Tbh I'd take anything from the NME with a huge spoonful of salt. This is also before the big stimulus to arts that the UK put through which the MVT praised. And of course smaller venues are opening under social distancing. That's the impetus for the move to 1m social distancing so one way or another these venues will have to adapt or perish. So far I've seen ticket sales have been pretty good and (as mentioned in that article) audiences want to return to gigs. The money is there, venues just have to monetise their crowd correctly. No, the NME is just reporting the MVT report. It's totally accurate. 13 per cent of them are saying they will re-open. The stimulus has nothing to do with re-opening; it's simply staved off a few venues going bust sooner rather than later and allowed them to make ends meet. How can a small venue open and only allow 10-20 people in? It isn't financially viable. As all the venues are saying. Whether audiences want to return or not, they won't be able to in sufficient numbers. I'm not too sure what I can add to this - there are reports and this information is all out there to be read, should you wish, and if you don't want to take my word for things. Small venues won't reopen with social distancing simply because they can't make it work. A change in the social distancing rules will have to happen before they can make it financially viable. There is not really a way to adapt when you're operating in such small venues (other than to charge insanely high ticket prices to the few people that can attend.....) It's not much fun in the live music world at the moment! Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, allwaystired said: They seem to do lower-level festivals in the UK, rather than their own shows, so it could be the same here! Shame, as you say the Jacksons are a classic act. Yeah. They probably would fare the same if they would try to do their own concerts, I'm sure though they would do better than in Germany. But either way, they do get a crowd going at those festivals. I saw them in Blackpool some years ago and there was a good crowd. And they were the only act with a name on that day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, allwaystired said: How can a small venue open and only allow 10-20 people in? It isn't financially viable. As all the venues are saying. Whether audiences want to return or not, they won't be able to in sufficient numbers. I'm not too sure what I can add to this - there are reports and this information is all out there to be read, should you wish, and if you don't want to take my word for things. Small venues won't reopen with social distancing simply because they can't make it work. A change in the social distancing rules will have to happen before they can make it financially viable. There is not really a way to adapt when you're operating in such small venues (other than to charge insanely high ticket prices to the few people that can attend.....) I guess it depends on what you classify as small. In Switzerland there is a smallish venue, called Z-7, which holds about up to 1500 people (even though usually there are way fewer people there) and they also did some social distancing concerts in june and july. Of course, a pub won't be able to do anything. ;-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Just now, PatrickS77 said: I guess it depends on what you classify as small. In Switzerland there is a smallish venue, called Z-7, which holds about up to 1500 people (even though usually there are way fewer people there) and they also did some social distancing concerts in june and july. Of course, a pub won't be able to do anything. ;-) Yeah of course. I'm talking 150-750 capacity here really. Even at 1500 I would imagine it is difficult to make viable. I wonder how many people they were allowed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, allwaystired said: No, the NME is just reporting the MVT report. It's totally accurate. 13 per cent of them are saying they will re-open. The NME report what they agree with. 8 minutes ago, allwaystired said: How can a small venue open and only allow 10-20 people in? It isn't financially viable. As all the venues are saying. Whether audiences want to return or not, they won't be able to in sufficient numbers. I'm not too sure what I can add to this - there are reports and this information is all out there to be read, should you wish, and if you don't want to take my word for things. Small venues won't reopen with social distancing simply because they can't make it work. No doubt it'll involve subsidies and grants. But that's why the government made the right choice and earmarked huge sums of money for the arts sector. We've seen many of the levies and fee's suspended so venues are not operating at the same costs. This goes for payroll too as less staff will be needed. If pubs are able to get by then music venues can too, many serving as both. It won't be easy but it has to be done. 13 minutes ago, allwaystired said: A change in the social distancing rules will have to happen before they can make it financially viable. There is not really a way to adapt when you're operating in such small venues (other than to charge insanely high ticket prices to the few people that can attend.....) We've already had that. 1m+ allows venues to open and get up and running. As we move to stage 5 then crowds will become bigger (most likely sometime next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Yeah of course. I'm talking 150-750 capacity here really. Even at 1500 I would imagine it is difficult to make viable. I wonder how many people they were allowed in? Way less than the 1500, I guess. They say groups can stay together, but should keep a distance to other groups. Not really sure how that works, as I wasn't there, but so far didn't hear that there was a problem and they had a concert every week since June 20th with the scheduled last one on July 25th, before continuing with regular scheduled shows from September 12th. Wonder how that will go then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: The NME report what they agree with. No doubt it'll involve subsidies and grants. But that's why the government made the right choice and earmarked huge sums of money for the arts sector. We've seen many of the levies and fee's suspended so venues are not operating at the same costs. This goes for payroll too as less staff will be needed. If pubs are able to get by then music venues can too, many serving as both. It won't be easy but it has to be done. We've already had that. 1m+ allows venues to open and get up and running. As we move to stage 5 then crowds will become bigger (most likely sometime next year). The NME's editorial policy aside, the story is just reporting a study. It's accurate. Which levies and fees have been suspended for small venues? Pubs are an entirely different concept. For starters, they're not paying for bands to play! I'll do you a breakdown, based on legitimate costings for a 150-200 cap venue I work with: Venue hire to promoters: £150 Headline band payment: (Around) £200 (Plus rider of between £20-£50) Support band payment: (around) £50 Optional second support: (around) £20 So a promoter has an outlay of about £450. EDit: The promoter also needs to factor in any costs of promotional material (i.e. adverts, posters, flyers, etc). These costs vary depending on what level of promotion they choose to do obviously, so I've factored them out for the purposes of this. They can sell 175 tickets, and need to set a price people will pay, in line with other shows and venues. This is a top end of £10 (usually less, but we'll talk best case scenario here). That means a sell-out gives the promoter £1750, of which £1350 is his profit. Not bad at all. But it's quite likely it won't sell out - he needs to sell 45 tickets to break even. And don't forget he needs to balance things, so money made from a sell-out might go to prop-up a gig he puts on that sells poorly etc. Because of social distancing, the whole deal becomes less appealing. A 175 cap venue, with 2 metre social distancing applied, probably could hold about 15 people. That's £150 to the promoter. You see the problem here? On top of that, the venue only has 15 people drinking, so aren't making much money at all on the bar (bar profits are how they can keep the hiring fee fairly low at £150 to the promoter- this fee includes the staff and security needed to open the venue as part of the deal). So the venue also questions whether it's worth them opening. Paying just one bar-staff's wages is quite likely to exceed the amount of money taken at the bar, let alone the profits made at the bar. You therefore have neither a promoter or the venue being in a position where they can make enough to cover overheads. A pub is entirely different. They have staff costings and opening costs. And that's it. They're essentially a shop for alcohol - selling a product at a mark-up. The simplest and most logistical thing for a small venue to do is therefore to stay closed as long as possible. They'e losing money every day that they do, but they stand to lose more if they open. Again, no need to take my word for it, the information is out there. Saying "it won't be easy but it has to be done" is a throwaway comment. It can't financially be done at present, as the industry is repeatedly saying, to those who choose to listen. The "has to be done" many small venues are facing is their closing down, sadly. Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian girl Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said: They won't get you a refund. When they can put on a new show within a year of the original date, they don't have to refund you. That's Portugal's great new law. Same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt72 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Next Monday they will announce new dates and give us the option for a refund for which we will have 30 days from that date to get one or hold onto tickets for new date Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, gt72 said: Next Monday they will announce new dates and give us the option for a refund for which we will have 30 days from that date to get one or hold onto tickets for new date Monday? Where did this information come from? Sorry - realised that's the 27th! My mistake. Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Which levies and fees have been suspended for small venues? Off the top of my head the late night/liquor levies and business rates have been removed/deferred. There are a heap more though. 13 minutes ago, allwaystired said: I'll do you a breakdown, based on legitimate costings for a 150-200 cap venue I work with: Those numbers look fair but more so for a pre-covid gig. Cost cutting/squeezing will be the name of the game. So I think you can do away with the rider and support acts. Support acts aren't required they'll just inflate the costs when you know you'll meet the capacity without them. The crowd will get music over the PA before the gig and that's it. I'd also hope that the venue cost would be reduced any to facilitate things but I doubt it. Costs and profits have to come down for bands and promoters. Sad reality. 18 minutes ago, allwaystired said: They can sell 175 tickets, and need to set a price people will pay, in line with other shows and venues. This is a top end of £10 (usually less, but we'll talk best case scenario here). That means a sell-out gives the promoter £1750, of which £1350 is his profit. I don't think I've ever seen a genuine gig that wasn't at least £15. Unless it was a battle of the bands type thing. so I'd say the figure should be more 15-20. Probably with a bit of a bump in costs now. So I'd probably work with an assumption of double the ticket price you've gone with here, maybe more. Although maybe keep tickets at their usual price of about £15 and increasing drink prices a subtle amount would provide more profit. Might have to do both imo. 23 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Because of social distancing, the whole deal becomes less appealing. A 175 cap venue, with 2 metre social distancing applied, probably could hold about 15 people. That's £150 to the promoter. You see the problem here? We don't have 2m social distancing anymore. It's 1m+ so we good. Using the example you gave above that allows for about 40ish people. However will vary by exact layout of venue and such. 36 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Again, no need to take my word for it, the information is out there. Saying "it won't be easy but it has to be done" is a throwaway comment. It can't financially be done at present, as the industry is repeatedly saying, to those who choose to listen. The "has to be done" many small venues are facing is their closing down, sadly. Of course it can be done. Will it require effort? Yes Is it impossible? No. Not by a longshot(which is a good thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: Off the top of my head the late night/liquor levies and business rates have been removed/deferred. There are a heap more though. Those numbers look fair but more so for a pre-covid gig. Cost cutting/squeezing will be the name of the game. So I think you can do away with the rider and support acts. Support acts aren't required they'll just inflate the costs when you know you'll meet the capacity without them. The crowd will get music over the PA before the gig and that's it. I'd also hope that the venue cost would be reduced any to facilitate things but I doubt it. Costs and profits have to come down for bands and promoters. Sad reality. I don't think I've ever seen a genuine gig that wasn't at least £15. Unless it was a battle of the bands type thing. so I'd say the figure should be more 15-20. Probably with a bit of a bump in costs now. So I'd probably work with an assumption of double the ticket price you've gone with here, maybe more. Although maybe keep tickets at their usual price of about £15 and increasing drink prices a subtle amount would provide more profit. Might have to do both imo. We don't have 2m social distancing anymore. It's 1m+ so we good. Using the example you gave above that allows for about 40ish people. However will vary by exact layout of venue and such. Of course it can be done. Will it require effort? Yes Is it impossible? No. Not by a longshot(which is a good thing). You've never seen a gig that cost under £15?! You've got to be kidding me! That's unbelievable. Things very very rarely are priced over £10 at venues under 200 capacity. People just won't pay it. PINS did £12 on the last tour just before lockdown....and they had fucking Iggy Pop on their record (and play on his!). Walking Papers charged £10 (and sold about 8 tickets!) I've told you these costings are legitimate, based on a venue I work with. I'm not sure why you're questioning them? You can't simply get rid of riders or support acts! Promoters sell tickets based on strong support acts. I mean, with all due respect, I'm assuming you don't work in the industry, or really get to many smaller gigs based on your never playing less than £15, so really, it might be best to just look at all the reports and information online, as you don't seem to really want to take the information I provide as remotely reliable or accurate. Kind of a waste of time me typing it out really! The fact remains 13% of music venues say they can financially afford to reopen under social distancing. If you know better than all the music venues in the country....then you should let them all know! I'm sure they'd be grateful for you telling them they're wrong. I don't mean to be unduly arsey here, but when you have a whole industry saying something is a problem, and so much information talking about that problem, it's a little difficult to stomach internet experts who think they know better than all those people. Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 55 minutes ago, allwaystired said: You've never seen a gig that cost under £15?! You've got to be kidding me! That's unbelievable. Things very very rarely are priced over £10 at venues under 200 capacity. People just won't pay it. PINS did £12 on the last tour just before lockdown....and they had fucking Iggy Pop on their record (and play on his!). Walking Papers charged £10 (and sold about 8 tickets!) Entirely possible I have and just not realised, unless tickets are like arena level expensive I just buy 'em. Though anything sub 10 would generally be an anomaly. 1 hour ago, allwaystired said: I've told you these costings are legitimate, based on a venue I work with. I'm not sure why you're questioning them? I said they looked fair and inline with what I've seen, for pre-covid gigs. However things will have to change to accommodate the distancing. 1 hour ago, allwaystired said: You can't simply get rid of riders or support acts! Promoters sell tickets based on strong support acts. Again yes I agree, in pre-covid times. If you need a support act to play a socially distanced venue you need to play a smaller venue. As it stands now support acts will just be money sinks for small scale venues. Maybe once bigger bands and events get back to the stage then support acts will be viable but not right now Times change. The industry will have to change too or more venues will close. 1 hour ago, allwaystired said: The fact remains 13% of music venues say they can financially afford to reopen under social distancing. If you know better than all the music venues in the country....then you should let them all know! I'm sure they'd be grateful for you telling them they're wrong. I'd suggest reading the coverage of the report again. It was done when 2m distancing was the guideline. Makes sense that this distance would impact the venues badly. https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/music/music-venues-social-distancing-reopening-uk-a4475791.html However since then we have seen the guidelines relax to 1m+ which is manageable. In one of your previous posts you say pre-covid 45 tickets would allow the promoter to break-even. Makes sense that 40ish tickets with reduction of costs and an increase of ticket/drink prices the business model would work. Optimism and creativity is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: Entirely possible I have and just not realised, unless tickets are like arena level expensive I just buy 'em. Though anything sub 10 would generally be an anomaly. I said they looked fair and inline with what I've seen, for pre-covid gigs. However things will have to change to accommodate the distancing. Again yes I agree, in pre-covid times. If you need a support act to play a socially distanced venue you need to play a smaller venue. As it stands now support acts will just be money sinks for small scale venues. Maybe once bigger bands and events get back to the stage then support acts will be viable but not right now Times change. The industry will have to change too or more venues will close. I'd suggest reading the coverage of the report again. It was done when 2m distancing was the guideline. Makes sense that this distance would impact the venues badly. https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/music/music-venues-social-distancing-reopening-uk-a4475791.html However since then we have seen the guidelines relax to 1m+ which is manageable. In one of your previous posts you say pre-covid 45 tickets would allow the promoter to break-even. Makes sense that 40ish tickets with reduction of costs and an increase of ticket/drink prices the business model would work. Optimism and creativity is key. I'd suggest you contact music venues with all your advice for the industry. I'm sure they'd appreciate your thoughts on how they can run their business. Make sure to tell them they need to be more optimistic and creative. They'll love that. People always love those that have no concept of how their industry works telling them what they should or shouldn't be doing. Always a winner. EDIT: It's just dawned on me that you're the same user who argued with anyone and everyone that suggested Covid 19 was a problem, and the tour wouldn't happen. "The world can't just stop while we wait for this to die down" was one of your classics, as you told anyone and everyone they were "scaremongering" and that Coronavirus was "mostly just alarmist pap" as countries went into lockdown. Given all that nonsense we all had to read, I'm annoyed at myself, yet again, for engaging in debate with someone who simply enjoys arguing black is white for the sake of it. Goodbye! Edited July 21, 2020 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, gt72 said: Next Monday they will announce new dates and give us the option for a refund for which we will have 30 days from that date to get one or hold onto tickets for new date Dont hold your breath, the same was said about July 19th... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coma16 said: Dont hold your breath, the same was said about July 19th... .....and July 6th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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