What if 2000's line up of GN'R would be more commercial

[Gordon Comstock]

8 minutes ago, shotsfired cro said:

UYI fillers?

 

Knockin On Heavens Door, Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, So Fine and My World are definitely what I'd call filler tracks. Don't Cry (alt) has good lyrics, but the song was redundant. Yesterdays is fine but I never go out of my way to listen to it.

UYI 2 definitely has the most filler IMO.

[Gibsonfender2323]

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I'd say UYI 1 > CD > UYI 2.

Locomotive and Estranged are 2 of their best songs, but about half of UYI 2 is filler.

I agree. But in my opinion i would say that other than Live and Let Die, NR and Coma UYi 1 has little bit more filler

[Gordon Comstock]

2 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

I agree. But in my opinion i would say that other than Live and Let Die, NR and Coma UYi 1 has little bit more filler

 

For me the only filler tracks on UYI 1 are Back Off Bitch and Bad Obsession, but both of those are better than the UYI 2 fillers.

I've seen a lot of people say You Ain't The First and Bad Apples are filler tracks but I like both of those.

[RussTCB]

26 minutes ago, shotsfired cro said:

UYI fillers? CD better than UYI's?? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

CD went down as one of the worst records in the history of rock.  It was in Walmart for like 2$ or something by 2009?

Ax's averege tix sold according to billboard by 2010 were around 2500.

Glad to see some like CD... then again, there are people who think the world is flat... ...or Frank is good.   

Actually, Chinese Democracy received very positive reviews when it was released. And of course, sales numbers have zero to do with actual quality when it comes to art. If we go by sales, then Creed is one of the best bands of the 90s or maybe even all time. 

The 2010 lineup was also still touring arenas in 2010, but don't like that get in the way of you just posting your opinion as fact again. 

14 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Knockin On Heavens Door, Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, So Fine and My World are definitely what I'd call filler tracks. Don't Cry (alt) has good lyrics, but the song was redundant. Yesterdays is fine but I never go out of my way to listen to it.

UYI 2 definitely has the most filler IMO.

People who romanticize their favorite era of GNR always forget that the band wasn't perfect in any era. The tracks you mentioned are absolutely filler by anyone's definition. 

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said:

In another timeline GNR released a CD followup in 2010-2011 and it sounded more like SIXX:AM. 

They could've done co-headlining tours with the likes of the Pretty Reckless and HaleStorm.

Would have broken GNR to a new generation in a better way.

The CD era was maximum potential minimal results. 

Personally, I'd rather have no album than a GN'R album that sounds like Sixx AM. So I guess that gives me a reason to be happy GNR didn't release something at that time? Lol

[GNR_RNR]

32 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Personally, I'd rather have no album than a GN'R album that sounds like Sixx AM. So I guess that gives me a reason to be happy GNR didn't release something at that time? Lol

This is the thing with releasing music. 

Had GNR captured a newer sound that appealed to the trends of the time they'd have found new success but alienated other fans.

I'd be happy to hear anything with Axl on vocals, just for variety.

I do wish they'd released an album that was very '2011'. CD manages to sound very 'timeless' imo due to it being a mess of influences. Would've been cool to hear GNR in the Kerrang era. 

[RussTCB]

4 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

This is the thing with releasing music. 

Had GNR captured a newer sound that appealed to the trends of the time they'd have found new success but alienated other fans.

I'd be happy to hear anything with Axl on vocals, just for variety.

I do wish they'd released an album that was very '2011'. CD manages to sound very 'timeless' imo due to it being a mess of influences. Would've been cool to hear GNR in the Kerrang era. 

I get what you're saying, but it certainly wouldn't have been for me. Crue released exactly that album (Saints) and it didn't do well at all, at least to my recollection. 

[GNR_RNR]

23 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I get what you're saying, but it certainly wouldn't have been for me. Crue released exactly that album (Saints) and it didn't do well at all, at least to my recollection. 

Oh agreed, it would have aged faster than milk.

But that' the best you can expect from legacy bands. An album where one or two tracks remain in the setlist to space out the hits.

[Voodoochild]

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Knockin On Heavens Door, Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, So Fine and My World are definitely what I'd call filler tracks. Don't Cry (alt) has good lyrics, but the song was redundant. Yesterdays is fine but I never go out of my way to listen to it.

UYI 2 definitely has the most filler IMO.

I don't know about KOHD being a filler. It's still one of their most played songs live and in airplays. I really don't care much about it, but I wouldn't say a hit single should be called a filler.

 

24 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I get what you're saying, but it certainly wouldn't have been for me. Crue released exactly that album (Saints) and it didn't do well at all, at least to my recollection. 

I'd like to think that Bumblefoot wouldn't let Ashba take it over that much to sound like that. But it did look like Axl was really into Ashba's shit at the time.

[Gordon Comstock]

17 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I don't know about KOHD being a filler. It's still one of their most played songs live and in airplays. I really don't care much about it, but I wouldn't say a hit single should be called a filler.

 

Just now, Creed said:

Its one of the best covers of all time. The UYI version is pure perfection.

 

Yea it was a hit, but there's something about the album version that loses the magic of the live performances. Most GNR fans I know prefer the live versions. Maybe it's just because it's so overplayed, but I almost always skip it when it comes on.

[Draguns]

You have to include Don't Damn Me. That's one of GNR's most underrated and best songs. That's definitely not a filler. 

[WhazUp]

3 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

CD>UYI 1 and 2  which have more filler then anything substanstive

I get what you mean, however personally even with the filler tracks the UYI albums have so many high points that they are among my favorite GNR have ever released

I think that with the Illusions, the charisma and chemistry of the band made even the fillers more elevated - and with Chinese Democracy (in my opinion of course) the needless layering and re-re-re-recording of parts and production took some of what could have been amazing moments and neutered them a bit 

Honestly, the Chinese Democracy album, and nuGNR era as a whole to me always lacked a bit of levity.  14 Years, Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up, etc. they just sound fun.  The Illusions had the epics and some more poetic moments but they also just had some pure fun jams.  

Edited May 5, 2020 by WhazUp

[Sydney Fan]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I get what you're saying, but it certainly wouldn't have been for me. Crue released exactly that album (Saints) and it didn't do well at all, at least to my recollection. 

I think with the crues SOL the band hardly promoted any touring with it. I think the crue did cruefest in 09 which was basically a greatest hits tour. Ther was no mass touring with SOL. Cruefest happened in 09 then the crue did some touring also in that year playing Dr Feelgood front to back. 

I didnt mind SOL but just no heavy touring behind it 🤷‍♂️

[Sydney Fan]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Personally, I'd rather have no album than a GN'R album that sounds like Sixx AM. So I guess that gives me a reason to be happy GNR didn't release something at that time? Lol

I agree with you there russ.

[Sydney Fan]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Actually, Chinese Democracy received very positive reviews when it was released. And of course, sales numbers have zero to do with actual quality when it comes to art. If we go by sales, then Creed is one of the best bands of the 90s or maybe even all time. 

The 2010 lineup was also still touring arenas in 2010, but don't like that get in the way of you just posting your opinion as fact again. 

People who romanticize their favorite era of GNR always forget that the band wasn't perfect in any era. The tracks you mentioned are absolutely filler by anyone's definition. 

Fuckin Creed, is their a worst band? . I cant understand why rock radio still play their shit to this day.

[Sydney Fan]

In 06 Axl looked slim, worked on his vocals and with the 06 lineup was really into releasing new music. He seemed to have a new drive.  So the question was what happened for him to suddenly lose that focus and drive for new music to eventually have ashba in the band?.

[Gordon Comstock]

19 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I think with the crues SOL the band hardly promoted any touring with it. I think the crue did cruefest in 09 which was basically a greatest hits tour. Ther was no mass touring with SOL. Cruefest happened in 09 then the crue did some touring also in that year playing Dr Feelgood front to back. 

I didnt mind SOL but just no heavy touring behind it 🤷‍♂️

 

Crue Fest happened in 2008, to promote SOLA. They did a couple late-night shows, too. SOLA had a fair bit of promotion...

Crue Fest 2 was in 2009 and they played full Dr Feelgood album.

[Sydney Fan]

13 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Crue Fest happened in 2008, to promote SOLA. They did a couple late-night shows, too. SOLA had a fair bit of promotion...

Crue Fest 2 was in 2009 and they played full Dr Feelgood album.

Thanks i wasnt sure and couldnt remember if cruefest was to promot SOLA or jyst another greatest hits tour.

[Gordon Comstock]

4 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Thanks i wasnt sure and couldnt remember if cruefest was to promot SOLA or jyst another greatest hits tour.

 

Yea everything after Crue Fest was basically a greatest hits tour. Even on their reunion tour in 2005 they played 2 new songs at each show.

[Gibsonfender2323]

Slash was playing Theaters and clubs  Axl was playing Arena's

 

 

Together they play stadiums

Edited May 6, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

There was a chance for a kind of a “Van-Hagar”-type revival between 1999-2002 IMHO. The reviews for HOB (NY Times) and RIR III (MTV) were quite strong (check ‘em out)- and in Bucket- Axl actually had a “foil” both musically, and visually that could potentially fill the “Slash” role in a wild/different way with the general public.

That said, seriously doubt it would have ascended to the insane heights of prime Illusions-era though (so rare/difficult to achieve even once- not to mention multiple times, industry changes, etc.)- and that in itself was probably the problem- as that was more than likely what Axl setting out to match (IMHO). Anyway, once the ‘02 Tour got all screwed up, Bucket left, and VR beat them to the punch (re-establishing Slash/Duff for the public) that particular window all but closed.

Incidentally, even with Chinese finally coming out, I feel 06-14 was far less pressure-packed- and arguably better. Much more about playing the classics, band picking covers they enjoyed, rebuilding the brand as a credible top line festival performer- and generally seems like more fun was had by fans/Axl alike. May have paved the way for the eventual regrouping too by shifting back to a more classic vibe...

Edited May 6, 2020 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Fuckin Creed, is their a worst band? . I cant understand why rock radio still play their shit to this day.

IMO, Creed is the single worst thing ever to happen to music. 

[Mendez]

7 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

IMO, Creed is the single worst thing ever to happen to music. 

 

2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Fuckin Creed, is their a worst band? . I cant understand why rock radio still play their shit to this day.

"What If" and "Bullets" by Creed fucking slaps

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

There was a chance for a kind of a “Van-Hagar”-type revival between 1999-2002 IMHO. The reviews for HOB (NY Times) and RIR III (MTV) were quite strong (check ‘em out)- and in Bucket- Axl actually had a “foil” both musically, and visually that could potentially fill the “Slash” role in a wild/different way with the general public.

That said, seriously doubt it would have ascended to the insane heights of prime Illusions-era though (so rare/difficult to achieve even once- not to mention multiple times, industry changes, etc.)- and that in itself was probably the problem- as that was more than likely what Axl setting out to match (IMHO). Anyway, once the ‘02 Tour got all screwed up, Bucket left, and VR beat them to the punch (re-establishing Slash/Duff for the public) that particular window all but closed.

I've been exploring that era lately and I agree. I think Axl had the opportunity for a second career then, either under the GnR name or another name. Of course it wouldn't have been as big as with classic GnR, but it could definitely have been a successful comeback, considering also how shitty the (mainstream) rock scene was at the time. Axl/GnR had topped the "most anticipated comeback" category in Spin magazine's polls for 1999 and 2000. The reviews for HoB and RIR 3, not only the ones you mentioned, but all of them were from positive to raving. I really don't think the press was ever so good to Axl. Btw, I have posted them all here:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2044-2001-01-01-house-of-blues-las-vegas-usa

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2045-2001-01-15-rock-in-rio-iii-rio-de-janeiro-brazil

The reviews were even complimentary about Axl's looks - even though he did look a bit different compared to his younger self. There were only some comments about Axl being a diva () and some scarce nasty comments about his weight in other articles in the press, but I guess - I wasn't around then - there was more of that kind of comments on the forums, as the fans tend to be more critical and even talk shit because of the "nature" of the platform, especially then when it was relatively new, so that maybe affected Axl. 

The hype for the album that was supposed to be released in the summer of 2001 became bigger with the bootlegs of Madagascar and The Blues on Napster.

But after that it was a debacle. I think the momentum was lost already by the end of 2001, after the European tour was cancelled twice and the album didn't come out, although Axl sounded confident about it at the time of HoB and RIR. It's a mystery what happened then. Axl's appearance at the NBA finals in June 2001 was in contrast with the reports that he was mighty healthy - he certainly didn't look like it. 

Then there were the two Vegas shows with Axl saying that he didn't know that he had a tour booked in 2001 (which was hard to believe, although I think it's possible it was true or partly true) and with the Slash incident that gave Axl a bad rap again. Then the MTV Awards "disaster", which affected the tour, then the 2002 tour ending in the way it ended, Axl was ridiculed and slammed in the press - and of course still no album in sight. In short, after RIR it was fuckup after fuckup, and irrespective of the extent it was Axl's fault or Bob Ezrin's or the label's etc, the result was the same.

In 2006 there was a - lesser- momentum, but it was lost, too.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Blackstar

[Rovim]

28 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I've been exploring that era lately and I agree. I think Axl had the opportunity for a second career then, either under the GnR name or another name. Of course it wouldn't be as big as with classic GnR, but it could definitely have been a successful comeback, considering also how shitty the (mainstream) rock scene was at the time. Axl/GnR had topped the "most anticipated comeback" category in Spin magazine's polls for 1999 and 2000. The reviews for HoB and RIR 3, not only the ones you mentioned, but all of them were from positive to raving. I really don't think the press was ever so good to Axl. Btw, I have posted them all here:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2044-2001-01-01-house-of-blues-las-vegas-usa

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2045-2001-01-15-rock-in-rio-iii-rio-de-janeiro-brazil

The reviews were even complimentary about Axl's looks - even though he did look a bit different compared to his younger self. There were only some scarce nasty comments about his weight in other articles in the press, but I guess - I wasn't around then - there was more of that kind of comments on the forums, as the fans tend to be more critical and even talk shit because of the "nature" of the platform, especially then when it was relatively new, so that maybe affected Axl.

But after that it was a debacle. I think the momentum was lost by the end of 2001, after the European tour was cancelled twice and the album didn't come out, although Axl sounded confident about it at the time of HoB and RIR. It's a mystery what happened then. Axl's appearance at the NBA finals in June 2001 was in contrast with the reports that he was mighty healthy - he certainly didn't look like it. 

Then there were the two Vegas shows with Axl saying that he didn't know that he had a tour booked in 2001 (which was hard to believe, although I think it's possible it was true or partly true) and with the Slash incident that gave Axl a bad rap again. Then the MTV Awards "disaster", which affected the tour, then the 2002 tour ending in the way it ended, Axl was ridiculed and slammed in the press - and of course still no album in sight. In short, after RIR it was fuckup after fuckup, and irrespective of the extent it was Axl's fault or Bob Ezrin's or the label's etc, the result was the same.

In 2006 there was a - lesser- momentum, but it was lost, too.

I think that in order for the 2002 line up to have kept momentum and for Axl to have had a second career, he first had to keep his band together. The problem wasn't just the album not coming out, the media, the label, and the canceled tour. Even when everything was still somewhat moving along I don't think there was a real chance for Bucket to stay in Gn'R and that was his star player. Members did not get along.

have you heard the Brain interview from 2018 about Bucket and Gn'R? some interesting info like how Bucket was excited about being in Gn'R, but didn't like that there were 3 guitar players in the band so even though I feel like Robin and Bucket sounded good together, my conclusion is that Axl probably should have picked 1 lead guitar player and 1 rhythm player like Robin and Richard or Bucket and Richard so there would have been  less friction and a real chance for the line up to be stable. I wonder which potential line up would have brought Axl more success as Bucket's image was difficult to digest for many fans and Robin was a sloppy player (even if this shit doesn't bother me personally)

here is the interview. Brain talks a little bit about Praxis but then talks about Gn'R:

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Rovim