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Old rumor/theory - was The General was reworked into a song called Y Volvi Para Creer by Jaguares?

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Posted (edited)

I recently remembered a guy on GNREvo saying that The General had been given to another band, and he put the YouTube song up.

This was before Evader put the clip out for us all to hear, so I thought it would be interesting to compare.

Here was his explanation:

I was road manager in Universal Mexico and I was assigned to "Jaguares", a Mexican rock band.

I don't remember but in 2010 the lead singer from the band was in "writers block" so we want to help. We call to HQ in USA and they send us a couple of CDS from "Untitled Project CD", we convince to Saul (lead singer) to give a chance and he likes a "BAND JAM RNG" and he creates a song from that audio.

We were wondering about the band who record that and we were very surprised when the HQ call us to say "Its a Guns N Roses song, Axl Rose is working right now". I and another 6 guys were fired because Axl Rose was very fucking angry. Its was the first version of "The General".

The audio is similar - you can kinda sing the 'do you recall who would do this to you, do this, to you' bits over it.  Official (I think) link below.

 

 

Edited by Pele
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Posted (edited)

In addition to the above, I do think some of the instrumental demo's will appear in other works.

I've seen someone post Buckethead instrumentals that sound like Shacker's Revenge (not his original Shackler song with Bootsy Collins).

I've recently read there is an album by Siren Cues called Eclectic Cinema.  This features Melissa, Brian and Paul Huge - and someone said the track Cobalt is The General.  I've not heard the song myself.

https://www.apmmusic.com/albums/SIR-0035

 

I've also just read the instrumental demo 'As it Began' was released by Saive, feauring Richard Fortus and is called Goodbye.  Official link below.

 

Edited by Pele
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Pele said:

 

I've also just read the instrumental demo 'As it Began' was released by Saive, feauring Richard Fortus and is called Goodbye.  Official link below.

 

shit... Now I know why I had this feeling that I've heard As It Began somewhere before.

This track by Saivu was one of my favorites back in time. 

tnx for info!

Edited by ©GnrPersia
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Posted (edited)

I will say that this song is in a different key than the cell phone clip - this song is in A minor whereas the cell phone clip had the first part in E minor (the guitar solo) with a modulation to D minor for the main part (and the key the orchestral parts are in).  There is no modulation in this song to begin with, as well

I don't hear enough of a similarity to really consider it more than just someone making random stuff up online, with all due respect to that person of course lol

 

I would say unless if there is legit, actual proof to confirm it beyond heresay, or a better recording of The General where we can actually make out its parts, I wouldn't put much thought into it IMO.  Although that song is pretty cool in its own right, I dig it!

Edited by WhazUp
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Also, there's a band jam in 2011 which they play at the same BPM as this song.

This was one of the things i wanted to say on a podcast 2 years ago. 
Now it's much too late...

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Posted (edited)

This Volvi Para Creer doesnt sound much like The General to me, but I can get why the person think it does

But Cobalt have an ambience really similar to what we've heard from The General, maybe it's inspired by it, or a alt version idk

But Goodbye it's deffinetly As it Began w/o a doubt

Edited by mattromero

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It’s a shame because I love As It Began and I would like to see Axl giving it vocals, maybe with a solo by Slash.

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7 hours ago, Pele said:

In addition to the above, I do think some of the instrumental demo's will appear in other works.

I've seen someone post Buckethead instrumentals that sound like Shacker's Revenge (not his original Shackler song with Bootsy Collins).

I've recently read there is an album by Siren Cues called Eclectic Cinema.  This features Melissa, Brian and Paul Huge - and someone said the track Cobalt is The General.  I've not heard the song myself.

https://www.apmmusic.com/albums/SIR-0035

 

I've also just read the instrumental demo 'As it Began' was released by Saive, feauring Richard Fortus and is called Goodbye.  Official link below.

 

Interesting topic:) It does sound familiar

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Posted (edited)

You sure they're not just trying to promote a completely unknown band with such claims?

Although stylistically... does sound like it could come from a later CHiDem session, except without great musicians.

I doubt it, though. Besides - writer's block and he writes lyrics for a full song like this?

Cobalt does sound a bit like the cellphone clip, though. Like a re-recorded, re-brained version.

If that song was "As it began" then... what a waste :(

Edited by bassplayer1993

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2 hours ago, bassplayer1993 said:

You sure they're not just trying to promote a completely unknown band with such claims?

Although stylistically... does sound like it could come from a later CHiDem session, except without great musicians.

I doubt it, though. Besides - writer's block and he writes lyrics for a full song like this?

Cobalt does sound a bit like the cellphone clip, though. Like a re-recorded, re-brained version.

If that song was "As it began" then... what a waste :(

The guy who posted it also said he heard GNR do an instrumental jam, and it was almost note for note with the Jaguares song.  He posted the link, but unfortunately the vid is now private:

I'll post the link because it doesn't actually work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inX2GkDAGl0

 

My theory is that the guy heard the instrumental jam, and thought 'that sounds like Y Volvi Para Creer by Jaguares' and made up the story.

 

I haven't heard Cobalt - where can you listen to it?

It's written by the guy who wrote the music for The General, so safe to say there is some connection there.

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8 minutes ago, Pele said:

I haven't heard Cobalt - where can you listen to it?

On the APM link you posted there's a play button for each track

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Posted (edited)

This has the makings of an interesting thread.

I've also been told that a band called 'The Friendly Indians' played Going Down live in 1998 or 1999.

There may be a link the bands bass player and Tommy.

EDIT - this appears to be a rumor started on the Brazilian Axl Rose Fan Club without any basis

 

Edited by Pele
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15 hours ago, Pele said:

In addition to the above, I do think some of the instrumental demo's will appear in other works.

I've seen someone post Buckethead instrumentals that sound like Shacker's Revenge (not his original Shackler song with Bootsy Collins).

I've recently read there is an album by Siren Cues called Eclectic Cinema.  This features Melissa, Brian and Paul Huge - and someone said the track Cobalt is The General.  I've not heard the song myself.

https://www.apmmusic.com/albums/SIR-0035

 

I've also just read the instrumental demo 'As it Began' was released by Saive, feauring Richard Fortus and is called Goodbye.  Official link below.

 

Wow! If I had heard this with no context, I'd be saying it sounded similar but was quite coincidental, but with the Fortus link this substantiates it.

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22 hours ago, Pele said:

In addition to the above, I do think some of the instrumental demo's will appear in other works.

I've seen someone post Buckethead instrumentals that sound like Shacker's Revenge (not his original Shackler song with Bootsy Collins).

I've recently read there is an album by Siren Cues called Eclectic Cinema.  This features Melissa, Brian and Paul Huge - and someone said the track Cobalt is The General.  I've not heard the song myself.

https://www.apmmusic.com/albums/SIR-0035

 

I've also just read the instrumental demo 'As it Began' was released by Saive, feauring Richard Fortus and is called Goodbye.  Official link below.

 

Why... I really enjoy AIB. I will be really devasted if they've given this away never to be finished.

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Right at 20 seconds in Cobalt sounds like it's going to turn into The General but it doesn't quite go there. Similar but I don't think it's it.

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19 hours ago, NeonKinight said:

Also, there's a band jam in 2011 which they play at the same BPM as this song.

This was one of the things i wanted to say on a podcast 2 years ago. 
Now it's much too late...

Can you give us a link? 

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Posted (edited)

As It Began started when Fortus wasn't in the band yet. The mix on the locker cds is dated Nivember 2000 if I remember well. That's almost two years before Fortus joined. Why would Fortus use a GNR song predating his involvment for some obscure collaboration?

I can hear the similarities in sound, but the chord progression is different.

Do we have a source stating the credits for that Goodbye song? Discogs maybe?

Edited by Twinaleblood

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5 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

As It Began started when Fortus wasn't in the band yet. The mix on the locker cds is dated Nivember 2000 if I remember well. That's almost two years before Fortus joined. Why would Fortus use a GNR song predating his involvment for some obscure collaboration?

I can hear the similarities in sound, but the chord progression is different.

Do we have a source stating the credits for that Goodbye song? Discogs maybe?

 

This is all I could find:

"First single from upcoming Sáivu album. Song is written and performed by Sáivu and Richard Fortus of Guns n Roses."

From their soundcloud page

 

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On 18.5.2020 at 2:18 AM, Pele said:

I recently remembered a guy on GNREvo saying that The General had been given to another band, and he put the YouTube song up.

This was before Evader put the clip out for us all to hear, so I thought it would be interesting to compare.

Here was his explanation:

I was road manager in Universal Mexico and I was assigned to "Jaguares", a Mexican rock band.

I don't remember but in 2010 the lead singer from the band was in "writers block" so we want to help. We call to HQ in USA and they send us a couple of CDS from "Untitled Project CD", we convince to Saul (lead singer) to give a chance and he likes a "BAND JAM RNG" and he creates a song from that audio.

We were wondering about the band who record that and we were very surprised when the HQ call us to say "Its a Guns N Roses song, Axl Rose is working right now". I and another 6 guys were fired because Axl Rose was very fucking angry. Its was the first version of "The General".

The audio is similar - you can kinda sing the 'do you recall who would do this to you, do this, to you' bits over it.  Official (I think) link below.

 

 

The guitar sounds like a bucket melody. And that break at 3:00 also sounds like of the leaks. Might be, maxbe Fernando will answer.

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On 20/5/2020 at 10:18 PM, Creed said:

The guitar sounds like a bucket melody. And that break at 3:00 also sounds like of the leaks. Might be, maxbe Fernando will answer.

I dont think they gave a song that was intended to be released and that sone of us heard in 2010

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On the edge I slide
Slow as time goes by
Love on your knees, untie your insides
This is how I invent myself and this is how I exist
I am the war I am the fight
God without ruthless heaven be
Be without beginning your first step


This is how I invent myself and this is how I exist


On the edge I start
And I'm wrong in your vastness
Folding hands we will be
Immaculate race
Unfolding souls
We will make redeemable gods


So ... I invent myself and so I exist
So ... I invent myself and so I exist
So ... I invent myself and so I exist
That's how I invent myself and that's how I exist!


And I came back to believe
To live...


And I came back to believe
To live...


And I came back to believe
To live...

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Ive heard a few mins of the General last year.  Very deep, dark and eerie song from the lyrics and tone. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Nightrain7 said:

Ive heard a few mins of the General last year.  Very deep, dark and eerie song from the lyrics and tone. 

How did you  got access to the song?

Edited by mattromero

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On 17/05/2020 at 9:24 PM, Pele said:

In addition to the above, I do think some of the instrumental demo's will appear in other works.

I've seen someone post Buckethead instrumentals that sound like Shacker's Revenge (not his original Shackler song with Bootsy Collins).

I've recently read there is an album by Siren Cues called Eclectic Cinema.  This features Melissa, Brian and Paul Huge - and someone said the track Cobalt is The General.  I've not heard the song myself.

https://www.apmmusic.com/albums/SIR-0035

 

I've also just read the instrumental demo 'As it Began' was released by Saive, feauring Richard Fortus and is called Goodbye.  Official link below.

 

Cobalt has nothing to do with The General IMO. Maybe the tempo, which says nothing really.

The Sáivu song - great solo there. It actually reminded me of Robin's solo in Perhaps.

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