Live playing energy

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

How is taking lessons bad? It's not  that different  then a world class athlete taking lessons. They always need to stay on the top of their game. I also don't  the band didn't make him take lessons.

More twisting  of words to fit a bullshit narrative .

 

Paul Gilbert is always learning from others, Jimmy Page,Kirk Hammet  Slash etc are always learning from others.

 Also who cares about the fills? Want it "right"  Listen to the record. Everybody plays differently the  fills and cymbal stuff is all your opinion not a fact.

Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time and yet he is constantly taking lessons and advice from others . Thats a stupid argument you don't stop taking lessons because 

Fittz is an overrated drummer 

Also you know who is responsible for the AFD groove? Duff, Slash and Izzy who had to teach Adler  all the shit for the album and scale down his kit

 All of them said was Adler  "Incompetent Drummer"

 

I do agree about the sound. Change the floor toms for more air and less mud and he is fine.

You had me right up until the Adler and Fitz stuff. A lot of this discussion is personal preference.

Adler was a great drummer, and the guys said the same stuff right up until they fired him; at which point their tune changed. Adler was great when he wasn't fucked up, I think the guys were saying that. Not that he was always an incompetent player. I have read them saying lots of complimentary things about his swing.

Fitz, I think on the first two runs with Slash I didn't love his sound because it was a little too 'pop production'. But as a player he was & is tight & plays the songs how they are on the record! that's what people always moan about "it's not like the recording". A drum mix and choice of drum tones can make a great drummer sound meh.

Yeah, I didn't get his point about taking lessons either. Even the best of the best have something they can learn. Another famous example is Neil Peart relearning drums, at a time when he was getting drum awards / cover stories every year! It's a great thing that he wants to broaden his ability. Anybody saying anything negative about it has no clue what their on about.

Personally I loved Franks drum sound and style during the Chinese days. I think his current snare is a bit too fat and his ride cymbal is a bit too dark. It's been said a million times, but I believe his new approach starting 2016 was down to Duff and Slash. the problem is we're all so used to how it sounded previously so any slight change is an aural assault. 

For me, I have my preferences about drum tones etc. but also what I care about is 'is he playing with groove and is he keeping time?' I think he does both more of ten than not! 

I won't lie and say I love all of his embellished fills in Estranged, don't cry and November rain because in my eyes those fills are just as important as the lyrics, so I'd love if he played them a little closer... not identical, but ya'know!

[circusboy666]

It’s not just Guns. It’s all bands. All concerts. I’ve watched the culture go from having the best time you could in the pits going wild, to whereas now you get a look for even remotely moving. It’s all about filming on your phone nowadays for YouTube. It really sucks having GA in 2020...

 

so if the crowd has no energy why would the band...

Edited May 24, 2020 by circusboy666

[Gibsonfender2323]

8 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

You had me right up until the Adler and Fitz stuff. A lot of this discussion is personal preference.

Adler was a great drummer, and the guys said the same stuff right up until they fired him; at which point their tune changed. Adler was great when he wasn't fucked up, I think the guys were saying that. Not that he was always an incompetent player. I have read them saying lots of complimentary things about his swing.

Fitz, I think on the first two runs with Slash I didn't love his sound because it was a little too 'pop production'. But as a player he was & is tight & plays the songs how they are on the record! that's what people always moan about "it's not like the recording". A drum mix and choice of drum tones can make a great drummer sound meh.

Yeah, I didn't get his point about taking lessons either. Even the best of the best have something they can learn. Another famous example is Neil Peart relearning drums, at a time when he was getting drum awards / cover stories every year! It's a great thing that he wants to broaden his ability. Anybody saying anything negative about it has no clue what their on about.

Personally I loved Franks drum sound and style during the Chinese days. I think his current snare is a bit too fat and his ride cymbal is a bit too dark. It's been said a million times, but I believe his new approach starting 2016 was down to Duff and Slash. the problem is we're all so used to how it sounded previously so any slight change is an aural assault. 

For me, I have my preferences about drum tones etc. but also what I care about is 'is he playing with groove and is he keeping time?' I think he does both more of ten than not! 

I won't lie and say I love all of his embellished fills in Estranged, don't cry and November rain because in my eyes those fills are just as important as the lyrics, so I'd love if he played them a little closer... not identical, but ya'know!

Yup Adler and Fitz are personal preferences. Here is an interview Frank did with Modern Drummer in 2017. Agree about the snare. I for one don't like the floor toms sound it sounds like they are kicks especially on Brownstone. they need a more airy thing  

 

https://www.moderndrummer.com/article/january-2017-frank-ferrer/ Here he talks about the UYI and AFD stuff.

MD: Two very different styles.

Frank: Totally, yeah. To me, Guns was almost like two different bands. “You Could Be Mine” is a slamming hard rock song, and “It’s So Easy” is a slamming, sleazy punk-rock tune. Two different drummers, two different feels. It’s opposites. When they were looking for someone to replace Adler, they found a more steady and straight-ahead kind of drummer. You know how sports teams will have a loud, screaming coach and then the next one will be really quiet? Adler is more off the rails, unpredictable, and Matt is a professional player, a technician.

MD: Do you think about that when you’re playing those songs?

Frank: Always. I like to think I’m in between the two. A lot of that was [previous Guns drummer] Brain’s influence. He has that steady, professional thing but can also give you off-the-rails. So I’ll make “Mr. Brownstone” as funky as possible and “It’s So Easy” as if I’m Paul Cook of the Sex Pistols, while making “You Could Be Mine” as professional sounding as Matt Sorum

 

 

 

Here he talks about his Hi Hats and stuff.

Frank: I went through that period when you had two bass drums, two racks, two floors. Every drummer goes through that. I find that if I have more drums, I play more drums. My whole life now is between kick, snare, and hi-hat. I can live there forever. If I ever got in a situation where I couldn’t play toms I’d be like, Thank God. Songs like “Jungle” or “Brownstone” don’t need a ton of drums. Why would you need any more drums than what it takes to play the song? Guns n’ Roses is sleazy and rock and punk and street—you don’t need a lot of drums to do that.

MD: That brash hi-hat flavor on early GNR is classic. You’ve put your own signature on it.

Frank: Funny you say that. I was using 14s before, but when we got into rehearsal, Slash and Duff [McKagan] wanted more of that big swashy feel. I switched to Sabian 15s at first and was getting more swash without actually having to lift my foot off the pedal, so I thought let’s just go 16s. Slash and Duff like to hear a lot of hi-hat, a lot of quarters and 8ths, like on “Paradise City” when I play those big fat quarters. It really cuts through in the arena settings.

 

Finally he talks about the diffrences between CD Guns and NITL Guns

 

MD: How have things changed musically with Duff and Slash back in the band?

Frank: It’s a lot more of that Adler feel. Much more dangerous. Playing in the Chinese Democracy version of Guns n’ Roses was more of a professional band setting with an effort to make sure the songs flowed and sounded crisp. I don’t want to say this version is sloppy—because Guns is not a sloppy band—but now it’s more of that punk-attitude, club-feel Guns.

MD: What’s the rhythm section like with Duff?

Frank: From the very first time we played together, we knew we were cut from the same cloth. In Duff’s heart of hearts he considers himself a punk rocker, and I do too

[Gibsonfender2323]

Here is an audio comparison as well from the bands youtube page.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vloors]

6 hours ago, Gunsdrummer63 said:

Totally agree with this, then you see him playing with Myles and he's 100 times better. Even slash's solo spot in the GNR set he seems to noodle, but kicks it up a notch. It's almost like he's trying to distract people from Axl and doing too much. Again like Frank, sometimes more is less

I feel half the time they are noodling or doing endless solos or instrumentals just for axl to catch his breath, have a break or hit up his old oxygen machine. It does not make for a good fan experience either.

Edited May 24, 2020 by vloors

[dave94]

They probably need to streamline the show to 2 hours and just focus on nailing the hits rather than playing all the deep cuts and crucially the covers which no one wants to hear. No one is going to a GNR show to hear Wichita Lineman or Black Hole Sun. The 3 hour shows were fucking great when they first reunited but that time has now passed and it’s time to focus on putting on a great show rather than a long show

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Here is an audio comparison as well from the bands youtube page.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This kinda proves the point when people say Frank ruins the songs, in the 2012 he plays at the perfect tempo, perfect feel. In 2019 it's like each member is racing to get to the finish line with or without the rest of the guys. 

"I don't want to say it's sloppy" in so many words..."this is how Duff and Slash like things... sloppy"🤣the CD version absolutely kills the current version, it has way more energy. The current version 'blows its load' right out of the gate, whereas the proper version builds up to a chorus, solo or outro.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Tom2112

[LikeADog93]

I think the main reason is because Slash seems to be just going through the motions with GNR. It's pretty obvious to me at least that he puts a lot more effort and soul into his performances with the Conspirators. Understandable though, I would get tired of playing the same exact set every night that's full of songs that are 30 or so years old. Slash seems to enjoy smaller, more intimate venues and the excitement of playing new material seems to override the enjoyment of playing songs that he's played millions of times over the years. And it's those reasons why he seems to prefer playing with Myles and company over the current GNR lineup. 

[Sosso]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

This kinda proves the point when people say Frank ruins the songs, in the 2012 he plays at the perfect tempo, perfect feel. In 2019 it's like each member is racing to get to the finish line with or without the rest of the guys. 

"I don't want to say it's sloppy" in so many words..."this is how Duff and Slash like things... sloppy"🤣the CD version absolutely kills the current version, it has way more energy. The current version 'blows its load' right out of the gate, whereas the proper version builds up to a chorus, solo or outro.

The line-ups from 2006 and 2009 felt more like a real Band than the NITL reunion for me. Robin, Richard, Tommy, Brain, Chris and Dizzy had their own chemistry, while NITL has a hybrid line-up of two eras.

 

[LikeADog93]

5 hours ago, Creed said:

Frank and Brain are no rock drummers. He and 4tus are solid for any pop act, but not for GnR.  I don't think that anyone is hating them. Its just, Frank isn't better or even as good as Matt or Steven. Even Frank knows that. He might be good in some other styles, but he is a very mediocre rock drummer. I would even prefer London Hudson, because he has an interesting punk energy in his playing.

Agreed. Frank is a good drummer but his style and sound just doesn't fit GNR's songs. And his over-use of the China cymbal is very distracting. 

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, Sosso said:

The line-ups from 2006 and 2009 felt more like a real Band than the NITL reunion for me. Robin, Richard, Tommy, Brain, Chris and Dizzy had their own chemistry, while NITL has a hybrid line-up of two eras.

 

I don't hate the current version, I just don't they are that great either they do have their moments though! like I loved the latest bersion of 'You're crazy' that think was stomping!. Seems to be like you said, a chemistry issue. It's like when you have those allstar bands, exceptional players but if they don't click then what can you do? Had Slash just slotted in to how GNR sounded in 2012 it would have been amazing. His playing naturally has that loose swagger so he would have brought some of the looseness of the current/old era... ah well, it is what is!  

[Alejandro GNR]

13 minutes ago, LikeADog93 said:

I think the main reason is because Slash seems to be just going through the motions with GNR. It's pretty obvious to me at least that he puts a lot more effort and soul into his performances with the Conspirators. Understandable though, I would get tired of playing the same exact set every night that's full of songs that are 30 or so years old. Slash seems to enjoy smaller, more intimate venues and the excitement of playing new material seems to override the enjoyment of playing songs that he's played millions of times over the years. And it's those reasons why he seems to prefer playing with Myles and company over the current GNR lineup. 

But he hadnt played some songs for more than 10/15 years...how do you explain the lack of enjoyment???

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, LikeADog93 said:

Agreed. Frank is a good drummer but his style and sound just doesn't fit GNR's songs. And his over-use of the China cymbal is very distracting. 

I know he uses it for some extra emphasis towards the end of a chorus, but I honestly would never have thought he was over indulgent with it. There's indulgence where you literally cover everything with it - Lars. And then there's frank who seasons the song with sprinkles. Two completely different drummers, but when you talk China cymbal he's the main guy I think of  

[LikeADog93]

2 minutes ago, Alejandro GNR said:

But he hadnt played some songs for more than 10/15 years...how do you explain the lack of enjoyment???

Slash seems like the kind of guy who is always looking to further his career by releasing new material. He is a workaholic and it's become obvious that GNR is not a setting where he can further his career. They are just a legacy act at this point. Consistently playing new material with the Conspirators seems to be a much more enjoyable experience for him.

[vloors]

2 minutes ago, LikeADog93 said:

Slash seems like the kind of guy who is always looking to further his career by releasing new material. He is a workaholic and it's become obvious that GNR is not a setting where he can further his career. They are just a legacy act at this point. Consistently playing new material with the Conspirators seems to be a much more enjoyable experience for him.

Slash has said before he likes to make new music to tour with and play live. Im sure playing the same songs for 4 years is a downer. Sure the first year or so would be exciting playing the old stuff but boredom would kick in after awhile.

[LikeADog93]

2 minutes ago, vloors said:

Slash has said before he likes to make new music to tour with and play live. Im sure playing the same songs for 4 years is a downer. Sure the first year or so would be exciting playing the old stuff but boredom would kick in after awhile.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what I already said haha. 

[LikeADog93]

30 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I know he uses it for some extra emphasis towards the end of a chorus, but I honestly would never have thought he was over indulgent with it. There's indulgence where you literally cover everything with it - Lars. And then there's frank who seasons the song with sprinkles. Two completely different drummers, but when you talk China cymbal he's the main guy I think of  

Lars takes over using the China to a whole different level. He now uses it as his ride cymbal. So during choruses and solos instead of getting the pingy ride sound you get the trashy China sound. It is very obnoxious to say the least.  

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, LikeADog93 said:

Lars takes over using the China to a whole different level. He now uses it as his ride cymbal. So during choruses and solos instead of getting the pingy ride sound you get the trashy China sound. It is very obnoxious to say the least.  

Certain songs it's just too much, like the load era material or Ktulu. Even if he didn't need it for 80% of the shows, it would take up such minimal spacing in his set that I don't understand why he foregoes it! End of the day, it's the players choice, and we don't have to like it!

[WhazUp]

In 2016 the vibe felt good both in the videos I saw and in the videos from that year.  I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that it is always the same songs in the same places of the set. 

Remember when there was that one show in the 2011-2014 era where Duff was playing and convinced Axl to start the show with YCBM?  I think simple things like that would do wonders in helping the band feel like things are fresh, as well as the crowds.  When you play 80 percent of the songs in the same part of the setlist with only 20 percent changes with occasional song switches, I can imagine as a guitar player I would definitely be in "going through the motions" mode by now

[Gibsonfender2323]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

I know he uses it for some extra emphasis towards the end of a chorus, but I honestly would never have thought he was over indulgent with it. There's indulgence where you literally cover everything with it - Lars. And then there's frank who seasons the song with sprinkles. Two completely different drummers, but when you talk China cymbal he's the main guy I think of  

Yeah when people use the "Tempo" "Grove" "fills" and china complaints I say to myself

When did Lars Ulrich become the drummer for Guns N Roses?

[Alejandro GNR]

In regards to Slash’s playing...I love his rendition of Wild Horses with Myles and that girl whose name I dont recall...now, THATS Slash, the man who made lots with very little

[Tom-Ass]

Can one of the smart people out there please crop DTJ from the other 2 songs and upload that shit to youtube? It would be greatly appreciated. Say what you want but Slash kicks ass on that one...

In the meantime some random 2019 live performance of Enter Sandman came on as I finished watching DTJ... Makes the "Selects" look I recorded them with my asshole.....

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tom-Ass

[Tom-Ass]

22 minutes ago, Alejandro GNR said:

In regards to Slash’s playing...I love his rendition of Wild Horses with Myles and that girl whose name I dont recall...now, THATS Slash, the man who made lots with very little

When was this?

[Alejandro GNR]

2 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

When was this?

2012 I believe...watch it on YT it may be the best rendition of that song EVER

[vloors]

3 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

When was this?

youtube it.  Haley Reinhart, Slash and Myles Kennedy