Live playing energy

[jacdaniel]

The Slash “noodling” thing is kind of bizarre because he doesn’t really do it any more now than he did in the past. 
A lot of Slash’s outro solos are improvised and will change night to night. It’s been that way since the 80s.

Perhaps he plays a little faster at times.

I think the “noodling” thing started on the forums because he wasn’t really bothered with This I Love. He probably just genuinely hates the song. Doesn’t seem like something that would be up his street.

I hate to be cynical, but Slash was getting a lot of praise for been the star of the show early on. And he really is. The moaning about “noodling” is just some people’s way of trying to deflect the criticism from were it is really deserved. 

[Brownstone drum]

11 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

The Slash “noodling” thing is kind of bizarre because he doesn’t really do it any more now than he did in the past. 
A lot of Slash’s outro solos are improvised and will change night to night. It’s been that way since the 80s.

Perhaps he plays a little faster at times.

I think the “noodling” thing started on the forums because he wasn’t really bothered with This I Love. He probably just genuinely hates the song. Doesn’t seem like something that would be up his street.

I hate to be cynical, but Slash was getting a lot of praise for been the star of the show early on. And he really is. The moaning about “noodling” is just some people’s way of trying to deflect the criticism from were it is really deserved. 

I don't know, the noodling doesn't go anywhere now, he did always do extended solos but they were almost like they were played with feel

[Gordon Comstock]

43 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

KOHD was great when they made it their own song and it still could be. The version now  is just boring and way too long. Axl doesn't sound good and no need for all the Fortus soloing. Just the regular Slash leads and a a little extended solo in the middle would do the trick. 

 

This. Even if they want to keep doing a 'long' version with the extended solos and singalong, there's no reason KOHD should be more than 8 minutes long. Their 12-13 minute version is ridiculous.

I don't think Frank is the problem as far as bringing the energy, even though I don't like his drum sound. The biggest fault of this lineup is Axl. Anyone who says you can't notice the Mickey voice when you're at a show is lying... songs like Better, Yesterdays, Coma, Rocket Queen, etc. his weak vocals just suck all the energy out of the show when they're playing the deeper cuts.

[GNR_RNR]

20 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

The Slash “noodling” thing is kind of bizarre because he doesn’t really do it any more now than he did in the past. 
A lot of Slash’s outro solos are improvised and will change night to night. It’s been that way since the 80s.

Perhaps he plays a little faster at times.

I think the “noodling” thing started on the forums because he wasn’t really bothered with This I Love. He probably just genuinely hates the song. Doesn’t seem like something that would be up his street.

I hate to be cynical, but Slash was getting a lot of praise for been the star of the show early on. And he really is. The moaning about “noodling” is just some people’s way of trying to deflect the criticism from were it is really deserved. 

Nah it's definitely noticeable. Just a change in his playing style (he's admitted it himself).

His work on This I Love was originally great (His Las Vegas solos) so seems silly to say he'd hate the song. 

4 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

This. Even if they want to keep doing a 'long' version with the extended solos and singalong, there's no reason KOHD should be more than 8 minutes long. Their 12-13 minute version is ridiculous.

I don't think Frank is the problem as far as bringing the energy, even though I don't like his drum sound. The biggest fault of this lineup is Axl. Anyone who says you can't notice the Mickey voice when you're at a show is lying... songs like Better, Yesterdays, Coma, Rocket Queen, etc. his weak vocals just suck all the energy out of the show when they're playing the deeper cuts.

Nah simply wrong on KOHD. Goes down a treat every single time. The people that watch every show complain but there's few enough of them to be classed as rounding error.

Some people just like his clean voice. I've noticed Axl singing clean in a live setting but never thought it sounded bad.

Had a friend see Axl/DC and GNR within the span of a few months and they said they preferred his GNR vocals (surprise to me too!). Just horses for courses I guess.

Don't know what show you've been to but the crowd didn't stop loving the show when I've seen them (through the whole 3 hrs and in blistering heat).

[Gibsonfender2323]

12 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I don't think Frank is the problem as far as bringing the energy, even though I don't like his drum sound. The biggest fault of this lineup is Axl. Anyone who says you can't notice the Mickey voice when you're at a show is lying... songs like Better, Yesterdays, Coma, Rocket Queen, etc. his weak vocals just suck all the energy out of the show when they're playing the deeper cuts.

In my opinon the 4 songs that are Axl's weakest are You Could Be Mine, Rocket Queen, Coma and TWAT.  However I think the best vocal performance he did on YCBM is Vive Latino with bridge he did it ina demonic voice. Better is a song he has. been consistent. 

 

The only thing I don't like about Franks sound is the way his Toms are mixed with the Kick needs more separation other then that he is fine its just the floor toms and kick i have issues with.

[Alejandro GNR]

33 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

The Slash “noodling” thing is kind of bizarre because he doesn’t really do it any more now than he did in the past. 
A lot of Slash’s outro solos are improvised and will change night to night. It’s been that way since the 80s.

Perhaps he plays a little faster at times.

I think the “noodling” thing started on the forums because he wasn’t really bothered with This I Love. He probably just genuinely hates the song. Doesn’t seem like something that would be up his street.

I hate to be cynical, but Slash was getting a lot of praise for been the star of the show early on. And he really is. The moaning about “noodling” is just some people’s way of trying to deflect the criticism from were it is really deserved. 

Just listen to his solos of Yesterday...the way he plays it nowasadys is like WTF...

Same with most YCBM versions and DTJ...

[Gordon Comstock]

2 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Nah simply wrong on KOHD. Goes down a treat every single time. The people that watch every show complain but there's few enough of them to be classed as rounding error.

Some people just like his clean voice. I've noticed Axl singing clean in a live setting but never thought it sounded bad.

Had a friend see Axl/DC and GNR within the span of a few months and they said they preferred his GNR vocals (surprise to me too!). Just horses for courses I guess.

Don't know what show you've been to but the crowd didn't stop loving the show when I've seen them (through the whole 3 hrs and in blistering heat).

 

It really doesn't 'go down a treat every time'. Yes, the crowd likes it, but when they extend it to 12+ minutes it gets tedious. Nothing to do with watching every show online, I'm talking about when I was at the shows. You can definitely feel it start to drag once they've been going for like 10 minutes and Fortus is on his 3rd solo.

Also my comment wasn't really about 'clean vs raspy', because he can still pull off a strong clean voice at times... but on some songs like the ones I mentioned, he just sounds weak. There's no power, no swagger, he's just trying to get through the song. November Rain is another good example of that.

[Gordon Comstock]

7 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

In my opinon the 4 songs that are Axl's weakest are You Could Be Mine, Rocket Queen, Coma and TWAT.  However I think the best vocal performance he did on YCBM is Vive Latino with bridge he did it ina demonic voice. Better is a song he has. been consistent. 

 

The only thing I don't like about Franks sound is the way his Toms are mixed with the Kick needs more separation other then that he is fine its just the floor toms and kick i have issues with.

 

Yea he was good on the YCBM bridge at the Mexico show. Better should've been dropped around 2018, though. It's honestly painful to listen to him scream during the bridge part now... it sounds like he's about to spit out his vocal chords and actually hurt himself.

I agree about Franks tom sound.

[Gibsonfender2323]

5 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Yea he was good on the YCBM bridge at the Mexico show. Better should've been dropped around 2018, though. It's honestly painful to listen to him scream during the bridge part now... it sounds like he's about to spit out his vocal chords and actually hurt himself.

I agree about Franks tom sound.

I feel like it would be so much better if he used something that had more air or separation. 

[GNR_RNR]

3 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

It really doesn't 'go down a treat every time'. Yes, the crowd likes it, but when they extend it to 12+ minutes it gets tedious. Nothing to do with watching every show online, I'm talking about when I was at the shows. You can definitely feel it start to drag once they've been going for like 10 minutes and Fortus is on his 3rd solo.

Also my comment wasn't really about 'clean vs raspy', because he can still pull off a strong clean voice at times... but on some songs like the ones I mentioned, he just sounds weak. There's no power, no swagger, he's just trying to get through the song. November Rain is another good example of that.

It absolutely does, it also absolutely does have to do with people watching every show online. Is still a highlight of the setlist so can stay as it is.

Tbh I only really think his clean voice suffer on NR (Wish he'd sing it in a lower voice) . I think YCBM mostly sounds fine (again this forum just loves a dogpile) the clean voice works in the verses and he rasps the breakdown.

[Gordon Comstock]

1 minute ago, GNR_RNR said:

It absolutely does, it also absolutely does have to do with people watching every show online. Is still a highlight of the setlist so can stay as it is.

 

I don't know what to tell you man. Yea the crowd gets excited when they start playing it, but the 12+ minute version is tedious. Doesn't matter if you're watching it live or on youtube, it drags on for too long.

 

4 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Tbh I only really think his clean voice suffer on NR (Wish he'd sing it in a lower voice) . I think YCBM mostly sounds fine (again this forum just loves a dogpile) the clean voice works in the verses and he rasps the breakdown.

 

He can kinda get away with the clean voice on YCBM because it's a high-energy hit song that gets the crowd going, but like I originally said, the weak voice is especially noticeable on the deeper cuts like Better, Coma, Yesterdays, etc.

[Brownstone drum]

19 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

It absolutely does, it also absolutely does have to do with people watching every show online. Is still a highlight of the setlist so can stay as it is.

Tbh I only really think his clean voice suffer on NR (Wish he'd sing it in a lower voice) . I think YCBM mostly sounds fine (again this forum just loves a dogpile) the clean voice works in the verses and he rasps the breakdown.

I'm not really saying it shouldn't be in the setlist, but how can gilby make the crowd jump around and look excited than a band like gnr?

I guess he has more of a connection with the crowd?

I would say all the criticism of Richard and Melissa is a bit harsh as they seem to give it some energy

[Gibsonfender2323]

3 minutes ago, Creed said:

Frank and Brain are no rock drummers. He and 4tus are solid for any pop act, but not for GnR.  I don't think that anyone is hating them. Its just, Frank isn't better or even as good as Matt or Steven. Even Frank knows that. He might be good in some other styles, but he is a very mediocre rock drummer. I would even prefer London Hudson, because he has an interesting punk energy in his playing.

Amazing, every word you just said was wrong

[Gordon Comstock]

4 minutes ago, Creed said:

Frank and Brain are no rock drummers. He and 4tus are solid for any pop act, but not for GnR.  I don't think that anyone is hating them. Its just, Frank isn't better or even as good as Matt or Steven. Even Frank knows that. He might be good in some other styles, but he is a very mediocre rock drummer. I would even prefer London Hudson, because he has an interesting punk energy in his playing.

 

If anything, I'd say Franks sound/style is 'too metal' for GNR... I definitely don't think of him as a pop drummer

[Gibsonfender2323]

5 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

If anything, I'd say Franks sound/style is 'too metal' for GNR... I definitely don't think of him as a pop drummer

I think Frank said he comes from Latin background because his father was a Latin Percussionist while also liking Kiss, ACDC and Punk 

[Gunsdrummer63]

2 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

I don't agree  in the. slightest. You dont like him becuase he is the drummer and not Adler or Sorum

 

The only people who matter sre Slash Duff 4tus and Axl. 4tus as been playing with Fank since the 90s. Axl since 2006. If they had a problem something would have been done.

 

People still defend Adler even after he said he wanted to push Frank down the stairs.

I don't like him because his drums (sound wise) and fills don't mix. I actually would prefer Brain or Brent Fitz if it couldn't be Adler or Sorum. And I know I won't see Adler full time or Sorum full time so that doesn't really apply to me. I'm a drummer myself and I don't like Frank due to his drumming style in the band. His snare doesn't fit, he over uses the china cymbal, and his cymbal sounds just don't work in most songs. As mentioned before, he doesn't play the November Rain tom fill correct and that pisses me off most. 

 

Many people would argue the only people that matter are Axl and Slash. People didn't show up just to see Duff when he was back in 2014. Slash and axl being back draws the crowd. People don't even know who 4tus is, they think he's izzy. 4tus also joined the band in 2002, not 2006. They did do something about it, Frank was taking drum lessons after the last leg of the Tour. 

 

I don't care who the drummer is as long as he fits. Frank is a decent drummer, but he doesn't have the groove or power. Brain and Brent are a perfect combo of this. 

[Gibsonfender2323]

30 minutes ago, Gunsdrummer63 said:

I don't like him because his drums (sound wise) and fills don't mix. I actually would prefer Brain or Brent Fitz if it couldn't be Adler or Sorum. And I know I won't see Adler full time or Sorum full time so that doesn't really apply to me. I'm a drummer myself and I don't like Frank due to his drumming style in the band. His snare doesn't fit, he over uses the china cymbal, and his cymbal sounds just don't work in most songs. As mentioned before, he doesn't play the November Rain tom fill correct and that pisses me off most. 

 

Many people would argue the only people that matter are Axl and Slash. People didn't show up just to see Duff when he was back in 2014. Slash and axl being back draws the crowd. People don't even know who 4tus is, they think he's izzy. 4tus also joined the band in 2002, not 2006. They did do something about it, Frank was taking drum lessons after the last leg of the Tour. 

 

I don't care who the drummer is as long as he fits. Frank is a decent drummer, but he doesn't have the groove or power. Brain and Brent are a perfect combo of this. 

How is taking lessons bad? It's not  that different  then a world class athlete taking lessons. They always need to stay on the top of their game. I also don't  the band didn't make him take lessons.

More twisting  of words to fit a bullshit narrative .

 

Paul Gilbert is always learning from others, Jimmy Page,Kirk Hammet  Slash etc are always learning from others.

 Also who cares about the fills? Want it "right"  Listen to the record. Everybody plays differently the  fills and cymbal stuff is all your opinion not a fact.

Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time and yet he is constantly taking lessons and advice from others . Thats a stupid argument you don't stop taking lessons because 

Fittz is an overrated drummer 

Also you know who is responsible for the AFD groove? Duff, Slash and Izzy who had to teach Adler  all the shit for the album and scale down his kit

 All of them said was Adler  "Incompetent Drummer"

 

I do agree about the sound. Change the floor toms for more air and less mud and he is fine.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323

[Tom2112]

The song is too long now, I get that live things can stretch... but there are limits and they pass those limits nightly! 

But without hearing Gilbys version, I'm guessing it has more in common with the version from UYI, which was and is a more energetic version. The current versions from 99 onwards have been more restrained. No problem with a more laid back version, but the endless noodling from both Slash and Fortus really saps all the energy. Up to the main solo it's entertaining, after that it's a drag. Axl sing along parts are fun, but the spacing of those are a bit too far apart in my opinion. 

If they chopped about 1.5 / 2 minutes from the song it would be perfect in my book, I don't mind indulging them a little bit with the noodling, but not at the cost of the performance. I don't really enjoy Slash or Fortus's parts when they are noodling. The current GNR show is done by the book, so I'd almost prefer if they did the segment by the book too and just worked an entertaining extended solo section, with less faffing around.

And if Axl isn't at the top of his game this song can really suck. It used to be a highlight in 2006-2010. I doubt GNR are going for "you should have seen them when" when they perform now, when they talk they still come out with "this band is a machine / juggernaut / best we've ever sounded"... I just don't think it's true though.

[Ant]

1 hour ago, Gunsdrummer63 said:

I don't like him because his drums (sound wise) and fills don't mix. I actually would prefer Brain or Brent Fitz if it couldn't be Adler or Sorum. And I know I won't see Adler full time or Sorum full time so that doesn't really apply to me. I'm a drummer myself and I don't like Frank due to his drumming style in the band. His snare doesn't fit, he over uses the china cymbal, and his cymbal sounds just don't work in most songs. As mentioned before, he doesn't play the November Rain tom fill correct and that pisses me off most. 

 

Many people would argue the only people that matter are Axl and Slash. People didn't show up just to see Duff when he was back in 2014. Slash and axl being back draws the crowd. People don't even know who 4tus is, they think he's izzy. 4tus also joined the band in 2002, not 2006. They did do something about it, Frank was taking drum lessons after the last leg of the Tour. 

I don't care who the drummer is as long as he fits. Frank is a decent drummer, but he doesn't have the groove or power. Brain and Brent are a perfect combo of this. 

I agree! 

I don't care who the drummer is at this point (except for a special AFD fueled love for Adler), I just care about the sound... Like Sorum, especially if he was playing like he did on the UYI tour, I could take or leave him. But his playing really evolved through VR and his GNR approach just sounds good. It is heavy handed... but in a satisfying sounding way. He's not coming back so it's a non-starter but... just for comparison sake.  For some reason Frank sounds tiring (??) to listen to, heavy like Sorum but not tight (but not... groovy either) -- I'm a guitarist, not a drummer -- I can't really put my finger on it. Meanwhile Fitz and Adler have this propulsive, poppy, bouncing in your seat thing -- it just colors the f out of the songs in the best way, to me. 

I was watching the Nightrain 2016 in Florida and wasn't vibing the drums and thought maybe I was just too in my head, then I scrolled down and saw a comment "whats wrong with the drummer?" So... I dunno. . Just further proof that the idea of drummers as being these faceless, plug and play devices (especially for big band reunions where they always seem to get the least respect), is way off. 

(and I say that with all due respect to Frank! it's a style thing). 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Ant

[jacdaniel]

In their prime, Guns were like brothers in a very dysfunctional family. And the band had some amazing chemistry. Sloppy at times for sure, but that was part of the beauty.  Chemistry is the key word here.
 

Now, Guns are a band making compromises. Axl agrees to go on stage on time. He agrees to play Slither and some deep cuts that Slash digs like Coma/DTJ. Slash/Duff agree to play in Axls band consisting of Richard, Frank, Dizzy, Mel. They agree to play CD songs live.

There is no real chemistry there anymore. You don’t need to be a professional musician to tell that Slash is more comfortable in a straight up 5 piece band with a laid back rhythm player beside him. 
 

This is my fear for a Guns album. Slash compromising and playing parts on songs that he isn’t really into. 
 

I get that Axl is really loyal to those who have served him well. It’s a good quality to have no doubt. But I think in this instance, it’s led to a band that lack quite a bit of chemistry.

But ultimately they are still a fairly solid band and making millions so I doubt they’re losing sleep.

[GNR_RNR]

30 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

The song is too long now, I get that live things can stretch... but there are limits and they pass those limits nightly! 

But without hearing Gilbys version, I'm guessing it has more in common with the version from UYI, which was and is a more energetic version. The current versions from 99 onwards have been more restrained. No problem with a more laid back version, but the endless noodling from both Slash and Fortus really saps all the energy. Up to the main solo it's entertaining, after that it's a drag. Axl sing along parts are fun, but the spacing of those are a bit too far apart in my opinion. 

If they chopped about 1.5 / 2 minutes from the song it would be perfect in my book, I don't mind indulging them a little bit with the noodling, but not at the cost of the performance. I don't really enjoy Slash or Fortus's parts when they are noodling. The current GNR show is done by the book, so I'd almost prefer if they did the segment by the book too and just worked an entertaining extended solo section, with less faffing around.

And if Axl isn't at the top of his game this song can really suck. It used to be a highlight in 2006-2010. I doubt GNR are going for "you should have seen them when" when they perform now, when they talk they still come out with "this band is a machine / juggernaut / best we've ever sounded"... I just don't think it's true though.

The amount of armchair-setlist coaching is hilarious.

KOHD is great in it's current form and represents a highlight of the set. No amount of forum cynicism changes that.

2 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

In their prime, Guns were like brothers in a very dysfunctional family. And the band had some amazing chemistry. Sloppy at times for sure, but that was part of the beauty.  Chemistry is the key word here.
 

Now, Guns are a band making compromises. Axl agrees to go on stage on time. He agrees to play Slither and some deep cuts that Slash digs like Coma/DTJ. Slash/Duff agree to play in Axls band consisting of Richard, Frank, Dizzy, Mel. They agree to play CD songs live.

There is no real chemistry there anymore. You don’t need to be a professional musician to tell that Slash is more comfortable in a straight up 5 piece band with a laid back rhythm player beside him. 
 

This is my fear for a Guns album. Slash compromising and playing parts on songs that he isn’t really into. 
 

I get that Axl is really loyal to those who have served him well. It’s a good quality to have no doubt. But I think in this instance, it’s led to a band that lack quite a bit of chemistry.

But ultimately they are still a fairly solid band and making millions so I doubt they’re losing sleep.

An interesting take that you view cooperation as compromise.

 

[Ant]

10 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

 

KOHD is great in it's current form and represents a highlight of the set. No amount of forum cynicism changes that.

 

 

I'm glad you're here to dispense the objective GNR truths!

 

[Mendez]

I for one never liked Gilby Clark's onstage moves. Coupled with the fact that he didnt play YCBMs main riff correctly, or most (if any) of Izzy's parts correctly.

 

I also didn't like his rhythm guitar for Beggars and Hamgers On, and although his riff for "Good to Be Alive" was a pretty cool standard rock n roll riff, albiet in a descending chromatic which is unique for a blues based riff, Slash elevated his riff

 

At least Fortus actually bothered to learn Izzy's parts

Edited May 24, 2020 by Mendez

[DieselDaisy]

14 minutes ago, Mendez said:

I for one never liked Gilby Clark's onstage moves. Coupled with the fact that he didnt play YCBMs main riff correctly, or most (if any) of Izzy's parts correctly.

 

I also didn't like his rhythm guitar for Beggars and Hamgers On, and although his riff for "Good to Be Alive" was a pretty cool standard rock n roll riff, albiet in a descending chromatic which is unique for a blues based riff, Slash elevated his riff

 

At least Fortus actually bothered to learn Izzy's parts

Has Gilby shagged your missus ''or somethink''?

[James Bond]

Gilby admitted that he had so little time to learn the songs that he accidentally learned Slash's rhythm parts to most of the songs and didn't realize it until they hit rehearsal. If memory serves me correctly there was only about two weeks between his joining the band and his first show with them.

Similar thing happened with Bumblefoot who improvised his way through the songs in 2006/2007 but by the time 2009 rolled around he had gone back and learned them more faithfully.