The history of GN'R as told by GN'R (A4D)

[denitza]

As an A4D forum member I'm very proud with @SoulMonster and @Blackstarand their work!

[UsedYourIllusion]

It would be interesting to add a historiographical section that specifically addresses the different interpretations of events from various books from band members; see how things vary 

[Blackstar]

16 minutes ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

It would be interesting to add a historiographical section that specifically addresses the different interpretations of events from various books from band members; see how things vary 

I think this is already being done, but not just with with the books - the idea is to include all the band members' quotes (from interviews and books) about each event/situation. In my opinion it is better this way, because it gives a more comprehensive view and allows comparison not only between the books from different band members but also between what each member said over the years. I don't see the usefulness of having a separate section that would be limited only to the books.

[Sosso]

I found this interview from the late 80s and Tracii was briefly talking about his time in GN'R. 

[Sosso]

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/la-guns/1986/the-roxy-west-hollywood-ca-5bdccb80.html

Accordig to this, Axl was performing with L.A. Guns in 1986

@SoulMonster 

[SoulMonster]

6 hours ago, Sosso said:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/la-guns/1986/the-roxy-west-hollywood-ca-5bdccb80.html

Accordig to this, Axl was performing with L.A. Guns in 1986

@SoulMonster 

Yes, https://www.a-4-d.com/t4942-06-january-december-1986-getting-signed#18938 It is also mentioned in Canter's book.

Edited June 10, 2020 by SoulMonster

[Sosso]

"Initially, only three of Tracii's tunes even made it into rehearsals and at shows he was lucky if the guys even played one of them." - Raz Cue, The Days of Guns, & Raz's, p. 208

- Reckless Life (Axl/Izzy) 

- Don't Cry (Axl/Izzy) 

- Think About You (Axl/Izzy) 

- Anything Goes (Axl/Izzy) 

- Move to the City (Axl, Izzy) 

- Back off Bitch (Axl/Paul Huge) 

- Bloodshot Eyes (Tracii) 

- If You Don't Love Me (Tracii) 

- Stick to Your Guns (Tracii) 

- Heartbreak Hotel (Elvis Presley Cover) 

- Nice Boys (Rose Tattoo Cover) 

- Sweet Emotion (Aerosmith Cover) 

- Jumpin' Jack Flash (Rolling Stones Cover) 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Sosso

[SoulMonster]

The next chapter is public: https://www.a-4-d.com/t4990-12-january-july-1991-touring-mayhem

This chapter deals with the first half of 1991 when GN'R made the finishing work on the two Use Your Illusion albums and went touring again. Axl had started with therapy in February but he was not at all fit to tour and this caused massive problems to the band, including late concert starts, playing past curfews, bad reviews, audience brawls, early end to shows, and finally to a massive riot in St. Louis on July 2. One who had a problem with this, and the band in general at the time, was Izzy who started to drift more and more away from his band mates. Slash, Duff and Matt were not able or willing to control Axl and as he took more steering over band affairs they put their energy into drinking, coke and excesses. 

[SoulMonster]

Another chapter added, covering July-November 1991. Not a long time-gap but full of events. The band continued the rocky tour after the St. Louis riot, but Axl was still unpredictable, emotional, and volatile, so the issues from earlier in the year had not abated. Despite this, while on a break in touring, the band managed to release the two Use Your Illusion albums. Still, Izzy had had enough and in November it was announced he had left the group.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4995-13-july-november-1991-use-your-illusions-are-out-so-is-izzy#19555

[SoulMonster]

On 1.6.2020 at 5:17 PM, Blackstar said:

- The concert database which contains many reviews and articles related to the shows (maybe we'll create an index of it in the future so that it can be more easily browsed)

Yes, we will As soon as I am finished with the history section I will start working on the concert database to make it more easily browsable, make the layout consistent, and add more content. Still lots to do! It is almost like I want the band to stop touring.

[Sosso]

According to this interview, they've played two shows with Ole and Rob and another eight shows with Duff and Steven. This contradicts the biopgraphy from Raz. According to Raz, Ole has played no shows with GN'R at all and Steven didn't showed up until Slash came in. 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Sosso

[Blackstar]

43 minutes ago, Sosso said:

According to this interview, they've played two shows with Ole and Rob and another eight shows with Duff and Steven. This contradicts the biopgraphy from Raz. According to Raz, Ole has played no shows with GN'R at all and Steven didn't showed up until Slash came in. 

 

I consider Raz's book more reliable as far as this goes, because it's backed by the March 24, 1985 interview. In the interview Duff was already the bass player and it doesn't seem they had played any shows as Guns N' Roses before that. And there is also this from L.A. Weekly (March 21) before the interview, which says that March 26 would be the GnR debut gig:

But I think it's possible that Steven joined a little before Slash (so Rob left before Tracii) - definitely not eight shows before, but maybe one show. A case could be made that the unknown drummer in the flyer was Steven.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Blackstar

[Sosso]

That's why I call the founding days of GN'R (March - June) "the lost chapter". There is so much confusion about the actual events... 

Founding line-up (rehearsals only) :

Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Ole, Rob

First concerts:

Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Duff, Rob 

Here begins the confusion. How many of the shows were played with Rob and how many were played with a substitute drummer? 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Sosso

[Blackstar]

29 minutes ago, Sosso said:

That's why I call the founding days of GN'R (March - June) "the lost chapter". There is so much confusion about the actual events... 

Founding line-up (rehearsals only) :

Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Ole, Rob

First concerts:

Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Duff, Rob 

Here begins the confusion. How many of the shows were played with Rob and how many were played with a substitute drummer? 

The preceding bands and the transition from them to GnR are even more confusing, as there are many contradicting accounts, because it was very fluid, there were changes in the lineups, they would break up and then they would regroup etc. For example, it seems Tracii may have been in Hollywood Rose for a short period, although, if I'm not mistaken, neither Marc Canter nor Raz Cue - and probably not Tracii himself either - have mentioned it. But Slash said in old interviews that he replaced Tracii in Hollywood Rose after Axl and Tracii had a fallout (or, in another version, Axl had fired Tracii). In his book, though, he said that he replaced Chris Weber who Axl had fired (although it hasn't been confirmed by anyone else that Weber was ever fired - he rather left). In either case, Izzy left Hollywood Rose as Slash joined. 

I think this Axl interview (conducted in mid-'88 but published in 1989) is probably closer to how things went down (it also confirms that Steven joined GnR before Slash did):

Quote

 

Axl: [...] I was originally in a band called Axl a long time ago. I got the name because peo­ple said you live, breathe, walk, and talk Axl, so why don't you just be Axl. And this guy Tracii had L.A. Guns, and he eventually became Tracii Guns. We then had a band called Hollywood Rose together, and Izzy was living at Tracii's house at the time. And Tracii and Slash grew up as rival guitarists and friends in L.A. So it was always back and forth between the members all the time. When I left Hollywood Rose the first time, I joined L.A. Guns with Tracii. The rest of the band he had at the time, though, just didn’t seem to have the drive, and it fell apart. Izzy and I had had a falling out earlier, but then we got back together and wrote a song with each other. Then Tracii and I decided to bring Izzy into the band - and then we got Steve and Duff. And then Tracii wasn't into it because it wasn’t going quite the direction that he wanted to go. So he went his way and put L.A. Guns back together, and we brought in Slash.
 
So Guns Ν’ Roses is a result of the two names together?

Axl: Well, the first time Tracii and I went our own directions, we decided we’d still get together to write some stuff because we still appreciated each other. And we’d call it Guns N' Roses when we collaborated. I thought of the name. And when we put the band together the second time with Izzy, Duff and Steve, it was like “Yeah, we can use that name now.” And I just stuck with it.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3174-1989-09-dd-creem-close-up-metal-magazine-guns-a-blazin-axl

 

 

[Spike Killer]

Thank you for sharing.  That was really entertaining.  Really great.  

If I have a very slight criticism is that its not clear to be how to get to the different chapters. 

I'm specifically referencing the section of the Tokyo Dome show released on view.  "

The film of the February 22 show was released on two home videos (VHS/DVD), called "Use Your Illusion World Tour - 1992 in Tokyo I" and "Use Your Illusion World Tour - 1992 in Tokyo II", on December 8, 1992 [see separate chapter for more on this]."

I couldn't find the separate chapter.  How would I find that?

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, BigVanVader said:

Thank you for sharing.  That was really entertaining.  Really great.  

If I have a very slight criticism is that its not clear to be how to get to the different chapters. 

I'm specifically referencing the section of the Tokyo Dome show released on view.  "

The film of the February 22 show was released on two home videos (VHS/DVD), called "Use Your Illusion World Tour - 1992 in Tokyo I" and "Use Your Illusion World Tour - 1992 in Tokyo II", on December 8, 1992 [see separate chapter for more on this]."

I couldn't find the separate chapter.  How would I find that?

I guess the chapter hasn't been added yet. @SoulMonster works on the chapters in a hidden area of the site and, when he finishes, he adds them to the "public" area. As you probably have seen, the last "public" chapter is about the Freddie Mercury tribute concert, so the chapters about what happened next (e.g. the release of the Tokyo VHS in December) haven't been added yet.

[Spike Killer]

11 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I guess the chapter hasn't been added yet. @SoulMonster works on the chapters in a hidden area of the site and, when he finishes, he adds them to the "public" area. As you probably have seen, the last "public" chapter is about the Freddie Mercury tribute concert, so the chapters about what happened next (e.g. the release of the Tokyo VHS in December) haven't been added yet.

Ah, ok.  That makes sense.  Thank you.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Spike Killer

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, BigVanVader said:

Thank you for sharing.  That was really entertaining.  Really great.  

If I have a very slight criticism is that its not clear to be how to get to the different chapters. 

I'm specifically referencing the section of the Tokyo Dome show released on view.  "

The film of the February 22 show was released on two home videos (VHS/DVD), called "Use Your Illusion World Tour - 1992 in Tokyo I" and "Use Your Illusion World Tour - 1992 in Tokyo II", on December 8, 1992 [see separate chapter for more on this]."

I couldn't find the separate chapter.  How would I find that?

Thank you! And @Blackstaris entirely correct. 

There are lots of "see previous chapter" and "this is discussed in a later chapter" throughout and when I have added all chapter I will go through the section and replace all of these with links.

[SoulMonster]

Another chapter added, covering the short period after Izzy left (November 1991) until the Freddie Mercury tribute (April 1992): https://www.a-4-d.com/t4997-14-november-1991-april-1992-the-biggest-band-in-the-world

In this period Gilby joined the band and they also added additional musicians: a horn section, backup singers and a harmonica/organ/backup singer, to flesh out the sound on some songs. The band was still dysfunctional with concerts veering close to disasters, but it seemed like they had someone found some normality in the chaos. or just come to accept Axl's ways.

While the band was enormously popular with Use Your Illusion records selling very well, large attendances on their shows, and a press that couldn't get enough of them, the music scene was slowly changing and a new type of artists and bands were emerging that would be starkly contrasted to Guns N' Roses, including Nirvana.

[SoulMonster]

New chapter added, covering May to December 1992. In this period the band toured with Soundgarden, Faith No More, and Metallica, among others, and famously feuded with Nirvana. FNM talked shit about them, Axl ranted against Metallica, the band experienced a new riot (this one in Montreal), Slash died in San Francisco but still had to get married a little bit later, Axl's circle of friends included some more alternatively-minded fellows, Duff started his second marriage that would soon fall apart, Axl throws a chair and thinks about a solo record, the band realized that maybe they should scale things down a bit, and the band starts planning for a new record to be released after the touring.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5000-15-may-december-1992-touring-and-feuds#19719

[Lio]

59 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

New chapter added, covering May to December 1992. In this period the band toured with Soundgarden, Faith No More, and Metallica, among others, and famously feuded with Nirvana. FNM talked shit about them, Axl ranted against Metallica, the band experienced a new riot (this one in Montreal), Slash died in San Francisco but still had to get married a little bit later, Axl's circle of friends included some more alternatively-minded fellows, Duff started his second marriage that would soon fall apart, Axl throws a chair and thinks about a solo record, the band realized that maybe they should scale things down a bit, and the band starts planning for a new record to be released after the touring.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5000-15-may-december-1992-touring-and-feuds#19719

I have to correct you on a detail. The show was supposed to be in Ghent (Flanders Expo), not Brussels. We heard about noon the show was cancelled, but we were hearing very mixed news, so we went over there anyway and got a flyer saying Duff had a stomach bug or something, and the show was cancelled June 24th 1992, such a traumatic date for me. As fate would have it, I'd manage to see GNR for the first time 25 years later on the day, in Werchter, on June 24th 2017.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Lio said:

I have to correct you on a detail. The show was supposed to be in Ghent (Flanders Expo), not Brussels. We heard about noon the show was cancelled, but we were hearing very mixed news, so we went over there anyway and got a flyer saying Duff had a stomach bug or something, and the show was cancelled June 24th 1992, such a traumatic date for me. As fate would have it, I'd manage to see GNR for the first time 25 years later on the day, in Werchter, on June 24th 2017.

Thank you! I have updated the text. I suppose the source was incorrect on this. 

[Sydney Fan]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

New chapter added, covering May to December 1992. In this period the band toured with Soundgarden, Faith No More, and Metallica, among others, and famously feuded with Nirvana. FNM talked shit about them, Axl ranted against Metallica, the band experienced a new riot (this one in Montreal), Slash died in San Francisco but still had to get married a little bit later, Axl's circle of friends included some more alternatively-minded fellows, Duff started his second marriage that would soon fall apart, Axl throws a chair and thinks about a solo record, the band realized that maybe they should scale things down a bit, and the band starts planning for a new record to be released after the touring.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5000-15-may-december-1992-touring-and-feuds#19719

 they had a busy 8 months!.

[SoulMonster]

I just updated with another chapter, covering the first half of 1993: https://www.a-4-d.com/t5002-16-january-july-1993-the-skin-n-bones-tour-end-of-an-era

The band had scaled back the production (saving money?) and did a relatively drama-free tour with generally great reviews. They had also cut down some on the partying with most band members being married and some becoming fathers (both planned and not so much). Duff, on the other hand, was failing at sobering up and also got into other kinds of problems with the bottle. Gilby breaks and arm and Izzy is asked to step in. Unfortunately, Izzy's short stint back in the band only worsens the relationship between him and his former band mates. The last show with the lineup takes places in July, and this would be the last show with Gilby and Matt in the band, and the last show with Duff and Slash as band members until 2016. The end of an era.

[SoulMonster]

Another chapter added: https://www.a-4-d.com/t5007-17-august-november-1993-lawsuits-and-the-spaghetti-incident

Short one, only covering the period August-November 1993. The band had just come off a massive tour and became occupied with legal matters. The Spaghetti Incident? was released and true to form the band was again chastised for its content, this time the inclusion of a Charles Manson song.