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The Axl Rose doesn't like Michael Jackson story

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35 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

Axl's position on Slash working with MJ back then could have had to do with Axl trying to protect the GNR name at a time when it was still kind of uncertain if Michael Jackson was guilty or not as during the first accusations Jackson tried to solve the issue and protect his brand without the legal system that left somewhat of a bitter taste.

Next time Jackson was accused he went all the way through the legal system. I remember the news reporting about it on a daily basis just waiting to slaughter him alive - but eventually he walked out a free man, declared innocent on all charges. Maybe that's when Axl might have somewhat changed his opinion, if it ever even was about Michael Jackson and not about Slash devalutating the exclusivity of the GNR brand by playing with everyone and his dog, even though Jackson was the biggest star on the planet back then and certainly one of the greatest musicians ever. I wonder Axl ever met him in person? Sure would have made for one hell of a vocal duet.

Michael Jackson molested multiple children. We don’t need the court cases to turn out any way to know that.

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19 minutes ago, LunsJail said:

Michael Jackson molested multiple children. 

False. 

As I posted previously, you should watch a documentary called Square One 2.0 on Amazon Prime which will clarify things regarding the 93 case for you. In addition, Michael Jackson was found innocent on all charges in the later case. 

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25 minutes ago, LunsJail said:

Michael Jackson molested multiple children. We don’t need the court cases to turn out any way to know that.

Then what do we need? The holy inquisition? Burning witches and all? The legal system is there for a reason and since I wasn't there I for one will take the court case with the FBI investigation and the judges sentence over any assumptions I could possibly make.

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I understand that Michael Jackson's fans on here believe in his innocence and want to defend him. Personally, I'm not passionate about the subject. I acknowledge his musical legacy and like some of his songs but I'm not particularly connected to it or him as an artist, so I'm not affected in this way by whether he was innocent or not.

I don't understand, though, why they can't accept that Axl may have had a problem with him at one point and he may have believed either that he was guilty or even that it was possible he was guilty. 

 

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3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, I think Axl at one point had a big issue with Slash playing with other people so often in general, especially big names. It's interesting that Matt mentioned it in his book (and he mentioned MJ specifically) as the main reason he thinks Axl wanted to take control of the band. Maybe Axl felt insecure or that there was a plan behind Slash doing that, like that he was trying to establish a career for himself outside GnR (so he wasn't concerned whether GnR would remain successful as much as Axl was) - and with MJ there was the additional issue of the accusations, and the fact that Slash continued playing with him although he knew that Axl was very sensitive about child abuse.

Sounds very plausible to me. Especially when you consider that Matt sided with Axl in his book on this issue, if I remember correctly. This is one of the topics he should have gone into more detail on (or well, on that entire era of the band actually).

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Maybe his opinion changed after MJ was acquitted in court. But, iirc, he mentioned him as one of the singers he thought should be above him in the greatest singers' list, not necessarily as one of his favourites. In any case, I think Axl could always be objective as far as acknowledging someone's talent even if he had personal problems with them. For example, he once said that although he had problems with Johnny Thunders, it didn't have anything to do with his music which he loved.

Right, I agree. Which is why I personally believe he probably still dislikes Michael Jackson, but hard to tell with him not sharing his thoughts on much of anything (besides US politics) these days.

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

 

36 minutes ago, The Matinator said:

Thought it was a different quote than that one but I could be remembering incorrectly

There may be another quote of Slash saying something similar. As I read through this thread, I remembered Slash saying something about keeping his son away from MJ many years ago and this interview is what turned up when I tried to search for that quote. But I'm not sure if it's actually the one I had in mind because reading through the whole interview, I felt like I had never read that one before either.

8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Tom Zutaut has also alluded to it:

Zutaut: If Axl would take his greatest press visibility of his career and he would use that to try and save one child's life from sexual abuse, how do you think he would feel about his guitar player playing with a guy who admitted in court documents that he drove to some ten-year-old boy's house and slept with him in the ten-year-old's bed in the room next door to the mom for 168 days in a row? [BBC, "The most dangerous band in the world", 2016]

 

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Taking into account the quote from Tom Zutaut that I've posted above, I assume that, even if it doesn't consist proof of molestation in itself, hearing that someone was sleeping in the same bed with children could be enough to creep many people out, more so someone like Axl who was sensitive about child abuse.

I don't know much about Michael Jackson or the court cases against him, but if what Zutaut said is true, and I assume it is, if it's taken from court documents, then that certainly strikes me as creepy and totally inappropriate as well (it's hard to think of a wholly innocent reason for a grown man desiring to share a bed with some other family's child for a prolonged period of time).

If I'm remembering this right, Tom Zutaut made the statement above after making some very disturbing claims about Axl's own childhood in the documentary you cited here, so viewed within the context of that...  I could certainly see this weird bed sharing thing (or any other rumor he may have heard) being more than enough for Axl to make up his mind about MJ.

Though frankly, Zutaut himself also creeped me out with the stuff he said there about Axl (especially since Axl has never said anything like that publically, as far as I know). Depending on the truthfulnes of Zutaut's claims, they either make me question his credibility as a source in general or his morals and character as a human being. Either way I find it harder to take anything he says at face value now.

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8 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I don't understand, though, why they can't accept that Axl may have had a problem with him at one point and he may have believed either that he was guilty or even that it was possible he was guilty. 

 

Because we'll never know until we hear from Axl. All we hear is through third parties who might have their own problems with Michael Jackson.

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2 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Because we'll never know until we hear from Axl. All we hear is through third parties who might have their own problems with Michael Jackson.

I wasn't talking about accepting it as a certainty (I didn't say that I accepted it as fact either), but about accepting it as a possibility.

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Just now, Blackstar said:

I wasn't talking about accepting it as a certainty (I didn't say that I accepted it as fact either), but about accepting it as a possibility.

Who here said that it is impossible that Axl doesn't like Michael??

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3 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Who here said that it is impossible that Axl doesn't like Michael??

I'm not referring only to this particular thread, but to similar threads before. People have used Axl's quote about considering MJ one of the great singers as enough proof that he couldn't have believed that; or they refuse the potential interpretation of the VMA speech as a dig at MJ. I remember an old thread where someone had even made a video about it.

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16 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I'm not referring only to this particular thread, but to similar threads before. People have used Axl's quote about considering MJ one of the great singers as enough proof that he couldn't have believed that; or they refuse the potential interpretation of the VMA speech as a dig at MJ. I remember an old thread where someone had even made a video about it.

That's why I said, let it rest. The last we heard Axl talk about Michael is that he enjoyed him as a singer. I doubt he would do that if he thought he's a child molestor. Unless we have a new quote of him about Michael, there is no point of bringing that up again.

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24 minutes ago, loke212 said:

I don't know much about Michael Jackson or the court cases against him, but if what Zutaut said is true, and I assume it is, if it's taken from court documents, then that certainly strikes me as creepy and totally inappropriate as well (it's hard to think of a wholly innocent reason for a grown man desiring to share a bed with some other family's child for a prolonged period of time).

Michael Jackson had admitted it but denied that there was anything sexual going on:

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=128070&page=1

26 minutes ago, loke212 said:

If I'm remembering this right, Tom Zutaut made the statement above after making some very disturbing claims about Axl's own childhood in the documentary you cited here, so viewed within the context of that...  I could certainly see this weird bed sharing thing (or any other rumor he may have heard) being more than enough for Axl to make up his mind about MJ.

Though frankly, Zutaut himself also creeped me out with the stuff he said there about Axl (especially since Axl has never said anything like that publically, as far as I know). Depending on the truthfulnes of Zutaut's claims, they either make me question his credibility as a source in general or his morals and character as a human being. Either way I find it harder to take anything he says at face value now.

I agree that Zutaut sometimes comes across as "sensationalizing" and some of the things he has said sound exaggerated or not very plausible. 

About the other thing he said in the documentary... It's off topic and I don't want to derail the thread (plus, like you said, the details are disturbing). But there are a couple of things that have led me to not completely discard it as a bullshit sensationalized story: one is that his story contained some specific details (like the place, for example); the other is something Axl said at a show about that place. In any case, even if the stories were true and Axl had shared them with him, I think Zutaut should have kept his mouth shut, since Axl himself chose not to share them in public. Same goes for Doug Goldstein about the MJ story - but since he said it, we're discussing it.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I understand that Michael Jackson's fans on here believe in his innocence and want to defend him. Personally, I'm not passionate about the subject. I acknowledge his musical legacy and like some of his songs but I'm not particularly connected to it or him as an artist, so I'm not affected in this way by whether he was innocent or not.

I don't understand, though, why they can't accept that Axl may have had a problem with him at one point and he may have believed either that he was guilty or even that it was possible he was guilty. 

For the record, I have no problem with anyone questioning Michael's innocence. Whether it's Axl Rose, or anyone else. 

I've mentioned this several times on my podcast, but I myself really didn't know what to think back in 93. So of course I have no problem with anyone else wondering. 

However, after all of the research I've done and the clear aids out there (such as Square One), it's very clear to me that he is in fact innocent. So the only exception I take is when people who haven't done any research (not you) claim they've made up their mind. 

Edited by RussTCB
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I was one to defend Michael for years, until I watched a video of what police found while searching his home.

Nothing illegal AFAIK, but SUPER creepy "art". Stuff I'd expect a child molester to want to obtain, if not already have.

Still, talented as hell. But one creepy MF.

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No. Michael Jackson molested loads of kids and he was a fucking nutjob to boot.

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Posted (edited)

So sad to see people here that have done no research into MJ. It's pretty damn obvious that the man was being extorted throughout his life and didn't actually do anything. People here have pointed out documentaries and resources that back it up but there's no way to try and change the minds of people that won't listen in the first place.

That Zutat quote is completely inaccurate. No such court document exists. The whole timeline of Axl being mad at Slash for working with MJ doesn't make any sense because no one had ever said a peep about MJ being inappropriate with kids until years after Slash started working with him.

Edited by History2010
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9 minutes ago, LunsJail said:

No. Michael Jackson molested loads of kids and he was a fucking nutjob to boot.

Repeating your misinformed bullshit don't make it any true. But that's always the problem with characters like you. Bullshit talk, knowing nothing and nothing to back their shit up.

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1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Repeating your misinformed bullshit don't make it any true. But that's always the problem with characters like you. Bullshit talk, knowing nothing and nothing to back their shit up.

That user just became the first person on my block list since I left the leadership staff. 

Now I won't have to see their ignorant, uninformed posts anymore :)

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3 hours ago, LunsJail said:

Michael Jackson molested multiple children. We don’t need the court cases to turn out any way to know that.

This might be the first time I've seen someone argue that a trial and the evidence presented during a trial shouldn't matter at all because everyone already "knows" that the person is guilty. Very frightening mindset. I hope you never go through any false allegation in your life, because by your logic you will be guilty regardless of the outcome of a trial.

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20 minutes ago, History2010 said:

This might be the first time I've seen someone argue that a trial and the evidence presented during a trial shouldn't matter at all because everyone already "knows" that the person is guilty. Very frightening mindset. I hope you never go through any false allegation in your life, because by your logic you will be guilty regardless of the outcome of a trial.

I don’t have sleepovers with children so I’m guessing I’ll be fine.

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We're so starved for material as GNR fans, we've decided to re-litigate the Michael Jackson trials.

Prosecution, you may call your first witness.

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1 hour ago, History2010 said:

That Zutat quote is completely inaccurate. No such court document exists. The whole timeline of Axl being mad at Slash for working with MJ doesn't make any sense because no one had ever said a peep about MJ being inappropriate with kids until years after Slash started working with him.

I don't know about the court document - to me proper research on a case like this would mean reading all the documents from an official source (supposing they're available, which I don't know) and then everything else that was said and written, which I have neither the time nor the interest to do, so I avoid commenting on the MJ case itself.

As far as the timeline goes, I provided an explanation - I'm not saying this is what happened, only that it's plausible.

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4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I don't know about the court document - to me proper research on a case like this would mean reading all the documents from an official source (supposing they're available, which I don't know) and then everything else that was said and written, which I have neither the time nor the interest to do, so I avoid commenting on the MJ case itself.

As far as the timeline goes, I provided an explanation - I'm not saying this is what happened, only that it's plausible.

Yes, Slash played on MJ’s History album which came out in 1995, several years after the first official allegations. He had also played on the 91 Dangerous album. So what’s plausible is that Axl had issues with Slash continuing to work with MJ. 

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