bitstorm
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Posts posted by bitstorm
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I am of the opinion that some of the songs on CD had a lot of potential to be awesome songs, but that something was lost in translation from concept to recording to the finished product.
The question is, what killed CD? Or what kills it for you?
Does anyone here feel that the songs on CD, in theory, are great songs but the production/overproduction/mix ruins them?
I just think like, songs like Better, TWAT, and Catcher could've been classics if done differently.
There isn't really anything that killed ChiDem for me personally. It's all over the board in terms of sounds and types of songs, but many great albums are like that.
I do think in time ChiDem will gain more respect, quite a bit of it is ahead of its time.
If it wasn't worth talking about, people wouldn't still be talking about it.
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GNR has always been an album band, I can see a single or two but can't see them bypassing albums..
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I don't need a web site or critic to tell me what's cool or not. I liked ChiDem a lot and still do. I don't necessarily consider it a "comeback album" so much as a new album with a lot of interesting direction/ideas.
Metacritic is the type of site that's always going to diss on albums like this and promote the more obscure lesser known bands I often find boring. Honestly, it's typical fare for them.
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wonder how much Slash is going for @best buy?
And how many copies it's actually sold.
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Chinese democracy is relevant to those who love gnr, that's all that matters imo
This
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Most artists now are trying to find all sorts of ways to promote their music, and by far, Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, and Lady Gaga have figured it out. Appear on every TV show possible
That can backfire (see: Superbowl Half Time Show).
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Axl in the producer's seat, Ludwig on the mastering.
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Some people felt with UYI's GNR jumped the shark.
UYI I/II had a lot of sounds to digest. Some songs were immediately likable, others took a while to grow on me. They took chances, but they'd already been doing that with some parts in AFD if you compare it to what else was going on at the time.
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Rock music in general is pretty much dead in the US....
Like that's never been said before.
And GN'R (both old and new) only occupied a very short time in popular music history. Even while the old band was together they were beginning to be washed aside with Grunge and Rap on the rise in the mid 1990s.
New pop flavors come and go all the time, some more than you probably change your underwear. Where are all those bands now, and if they are still playing or have reunited, how well do their efforts (album quality, music sales, ticket sales) compare to Guns?
Each album as well showcased diminishing returns: AFD had sold over 12 million by 1991; In 1991, the UYI's sold seven million each;
So by your estimates, AFD sold 12 million in 5 years and UYI I/II sold 14 million combined in only its first year. Hello?
In 1993, TSI sold just over a million copies. An article I read from 1997 also stated that their 1993 tour sales were less than those of 1992.
It was also a covers album with a lot of obscure tracks, there were quite a few without the main vocalist which can hurt any similar effort, they didn't write much anything on it, and it was pretty clear by this point the band members had creative problems. As much as I like Guns new and old and think they do covers amazingly, I don't care for TSI personally, it has its moments, but I don't consider it a true Guns album or part of the GnR canon. It just feels too forced and maybe even contract filler, and I think part of it's negative feedback is what led to Axl wanting to make things right by doing a truly great original album. It's like Highlander 2 or similar efforts- just pretend it didn't happen.
Now, we're way beyond the mid 1990s. Hip Hop, Electro-Pop and the like is huge now. GN'R only really held mainstream interest from around 1988 (when SCOM took off) to 1993.
I don't think I've ever seen such a continued interest/buzz on any other unreleased album in my life other than The Beach Boys/Brian Wilson's Smile Album.
That's just a five year run, with only 4 full albums in that period.
Most bands never manage to get even a fraction of that level of success.
Compare that to the Stones, who were founded in 1962 and were still as popular in 1977 as they were in 1967. By 1967, five years into their history, the Stones had released 8 albums. Led Zeppelin who remained relevant and popular even through radically different and rapidly changing musical landscapes from 1969 to 1980. By 1974, five years into Zep's history, they had released 5 albums and were working on a massive double album. Even a shorter lived act like The Doors released 6 albums in 4 years.
All great classic bands that had their run well before the internet hit the masses and the music industry as we know it began to change. Zeppelin and The Doors had key members die which, love it or hate it, contributes to album sales and the whole myth thing. Stones lost Brian Jones, although he was fired before he died and maybe he was not quite as key member (I think he was), but their sound definitely changed without him.
An interesting point of reference: The Rolling Stones' last album A Bigger Bang sold a little over half a million in the US.
Guns' run was short in comparison to the world renowned greats, and they were not nearly as prolific in their span.
Guns are still running, there's still enough interest for them to keep doing it, and considering the lineup changes, all the hurdles and obstacles faced and other issues, they're not doing all that bad. Despite all the hype, mystery, edits, and years of wait, I truly like Chi-Dem. I don't need multiplatinum album sales to tell me an album's great.
The thing is, how does the rest of the world look back on Guns? Do we just overinflate their greatness/popularity since we're die hard fans? Would your average music listener know what Guns N' Roses was/is, and if they did, what would they think? I've talked to people who like (modern) rock, and even some of them just view GN'R as nothing more than '80s Hair Metal--Not much differently than how they view Motley Crue. A remnant of a cheesy era. Sort of like how the character Randy the Ram is viewed in the movie The Wrestler--A shadow remaining from a brighter, more neon colored era of make up, big hair and wild clothes.
There's always going to be some new band on the block. VERY few of them reach the same almost mythological level or have the same shelf life.
What is Guns' legacy? And were they really still as popular in 1993 as they were in 1991 or 1988 as some think?
A great band that's managed to shift musical direction and has survived a lot of problems/changes including lineup changes despite terrible odds, with some of the shittiest fans I've ever come across. And some of the best, as well.
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To bitstorm, whatever they have could cause all of the above
Understand and respect your thoughts here man, but if you think about it they have survived through a lot worse over the years. It'll take a lot more to bring down GnR than some fat mentally ill fuck with Care Bears.
New music, we all want! But not like this, through a fat cunt blackmailing! Anonymous leaks are totally different to this situation.
I want to hear new music as much as anyone, but not like this, no.
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Signed. My thoughts:
I don't think MSL or Darknemus or whoever else are bullshitting anyone when they say they have these files that are sensitive to the band's plans. I think they're for real and the consequences will be very damaging.
I don't think this will force an album release, accelerate tour plans or cause "the end of the band", but it's obviously not good. Giving some ridiculous ultimatum for the band to follow whatever the schedule was from illegal documents and then threatening to dump everything if demands aren't met or any action is taken *isn't* anything positive or constructive. Nothing good will come out of this, and that's why I fucking hate it.
WTF is with this mentality of "we haven't heard updates from the band, so we deserve these leaks". What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Just because we haven't heard anything recently doesn't mean that nothing is happening. Those of you clamoring for documents or music files or whatever are too fucking stupid to realize if leaks occur, it just pushes all the efforts of the band (remember? the one you're supposed to like) back further.
MSL especially seems to be trying to use this as some silly springboard to fame or money he's not getting elsewhere. That is the ONLY thing he's got going for him. When it's all over, he'll go right back to where he was before- nobody other than a douchebag with Care Bears on the internet.
I can already see how this is going to end. I see bad things for MSL because I really do think he's stupid enough to do what he says he will.
I love this band, but I detest how utterly fucking stupid a few of its "fans" are.
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For me it has to be:
1. Street of Dreams outro - I love Axl's vocals with the kickass solo behind it
2. Bucket's TWAT solo
3. The last couple of minutes of Catcher In The Rye
4. The bridge in Better is sick, I wish there were more hard rocking moments like this throughout the album
5. The outro to Prostitute
Chinese = Bumble's rhythm guitar part fills, all the nice guitar lead tradeoffs, the "gang of Axls" vocals
Shackler's = That riff break in the middle is all rage. I love it.
Catcher = Opening background vocals, the nice "You decide so I don't have to" bridge, spacey synth/drum machine break fading out to classic riffs with "Nah nah" chorus
Better = Exotic tom fills during chorus, the "No" vocals layered on top of the chord progressions
TWAT = Bucket steals the show on from other great moments, good example of how the best leads aren't necessarily the ones with the most notes
Street of Dreams = Dizzy's key parts, Tommy's bass lines, Axl's soaring vocals
Prostitute = Gotta go with the final verse buildup and outro here, great way to finish an album
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I started seeing mentions of Gn'R through various magazines, then a friend said You gotta hear this album. Bought AFD on tape and thought it was amazing, great vocals, great guitars, no weak link in the band, great songs, finally there was a new rock album that was as great as older Aerosmith, Zeppelin, or AC/DC. You have to remember that most rock albums coming out at the time were just not this good or have any kind of staying power, that's part of why people kept listening to the older shit. This was well before the Sweet Child/Jungle videos took off (I didn't see any Gn'R videos until much later), when they became popular it was no big surprise considering how good the music was.
That same sort of fascination happened when I started hearing the Chinese Democracy track leaks, I thought the odds weren't all that good considering he was nearly the last original member of the "classic lineup" with a new players, honestly I thought it was going to suck. The only post-UYI music I liked from any of the ex-Gunners was the Neurotic Outsiders album. The new songs were amazing. I played the shit out of them (& the album that was finally released) and still do.
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Everything's a fight with him. Encouraging the "fans to fight the good fight".
Axl is Axl, take it or leave.
Fighting for what exactly?
The right to go to a messageboard to read the latest about a band they're interested in without the stupid cupcake comments geared to do nothing but diminish the efforts of the new lineup- sometimes with zero credibility.
I get that some like the old lineup- that's great, I liked them too. But that was 15-20 years ago, and there's a section for it. And whether you "accept" that the current lineup is GnR or not is your opinion, but don't try crapping all over the thread with horseshit like this.
A cover band milking people outta their cash so we could get a half-assed album and a tour which features zero of the main players.
The "main players" other than Axl bailed in the mid-1990s. They failed you as much as anybody. Nobody's being fooled by who is playing GnR today. If you don't like it, don't pay to see them, don't buy any albums or merchandise- problem solved.
Zero press or interviews.
We got better than that, he came here and gave direct from the source, unedited answers to a lot of questions including info on unreleased songs. No interview would have likely covered as much info as he gave.
AFD jukebox on repeat every night of the tour.
Again, you don't like it? Don't go to the show.
Fuck it.
If you don't like it, just leave. You can post all you like about how much you don't approve of the new band, it's just wasting your time and won't change anything.
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It's nice to see they appreciate how much we appreciate them. I love this band.
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It'd be easy to pretend nothing's changed, that the band out now is still GNR. Fans of other bands with revolving door lineups do it all the time (Deep Purple, Allman Brothers, Black Crowes, Whitesnake, etc.), It'd be the easiest thing in the world...
Who is pretending nothing has changed? Who here does not already know GnR does not have Slash or Duff in the lineup?
When I first saw photos of the early 2000s lineup with Buckethead and Fink, I thought it was visually ridiculous, like some stupid circus and it was killing everything I loved about the band. Then I heard the music they were doing and was absolutely stunned by how much I liked it.
I am not "pretending" the newer lineup as GnR, I accept it as GnR.
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Considering mygnr.com started out in 96 or earlier, it is based on the original band. The forum was just a natural evolution of the old page...
1996 was NOT a good year to be a Guns fan. It was already clear there were problems with new material... and really it was easy to see there were problems for several years before then.
Considering this page never would exist if it weren't for the original band...
There's no denying the "classic" lineup had great songs, and that's what got them noticed.
Considering Axl is living on past glories...
And Slash isn't? Really? Personally I'll take the one new GNR album over ALL of Slash's recorded output since he left GnR.
Considering that he kinda "forced" the old members to give up the rights to the name...
He came up with the name, he put together the band, they didn't have a problem signing it at the time, they left the band, it really seems like only after Slash realized the other projects wouldn't fare as well as Guns that he started crying foul.
Considering that the setlist are heavily based on songs by the original band...
A GnR show without "Sweet Child", "Jungle", "November Rain", "Patience", or "Paradise City"? Yeah, that'd go over REAL well. People would be pissed if they didn't hear them. Actually I'm pleased that they're playing a lot of CD songs to support it.
Considering that he's released one album in 17 years when on his own...
There's a lot more to it it than that, and that's based on comments made from other people than just Axl. There are plenty of people who've said it was ready to go at several points in time as far back as 10 years ago. And I think it's clear by now more than one album's worth of material was made during that time.
Considering that he still calls it Guns N' Roses...
...it's no wonder fans of the old band want a reunion, and have a hard time with Axl dragging the name through the mud.
I was and still am a fan of the "old band" and loved the songs that came out during that time, but it clearly wasn't meant to last. They had problems and sadly their ability to create together ran out of gas- you just have to accept it like I did 15 years ago. I actually would rather have it this way than to see them have come out with Snakepit type songs. For all the criticism CD gets from some here, I think a new album by the "classic" GnR wouldn't have been as good.
I don't at all think GnR's name has been "dragged through the mud", it was a long hard wait for sure but in all seriousness I like the new music even more than the older stuff. This is coming from a fan that wore out several copies of AFD and bought the UYI albums the day they came out and loved them. And that's not because of the hype, the legend or whatever... I walked into it expecting to be severely disappointed and was quite surprised at what I heard.
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Every so often a list of the greatest albums ever made is compiled. Nevermind now charts in the top ten of most of these list. A fucking disgrace . The reason usually is that Nevermind killed off hair metal or some how changed the landscape drastically. It is my belief that GNR/Appetite killed off hair metal. Hair metal was dead for like two year by the time Nevermind came along. Am I the only person who believes that NEvermind is the most overated album of all time, at least over rated by journalist. I dont dislike Nirvana because Axl either i just cant stand how the bands influence is overated, therefore i cant stand them.
Nevermind was the start of something new, somewhat the next "Never Mind the Bollocks", if you will. It came along at a time where a lot of people were sick of "hair metal", they were "the alternative".
Appetite was more like the next classic "Back In Black" or "Rocks" type of album and sometimes I think it was the last of its kind... they were the next great group and were definitely more what a lot of rock bands at the time should have sounded like.
I liked Nevermind okay but it got as overplayed as the hair bands it put itself up against so I really can't listen to it anymore... good alternative album but I liked Siamese Dream better.
I can still listen to Appetite today. I honestly really enjoy the musical direction CD has taken, and it's just like how it was when I first discovered Appetite.. no joke, that's how it is for me.
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People say 1991/1992 is when Grunge took over in the main stream. If you had to pin a year on it, what year would you say Grunge died?
1994. Cobain blew his brains out, STP started changing musical direction, Weezer, Oasis, Offspring, etc started becoming very popular, Pearl Jam stopping their tour over Ticketmaster...
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What the hell does Slash have on his radar next anyway? That's right, jack fucking shit. He still has to work in that little something negative like focusing on the show being late which to me is just sour grapes. Oh well, maybe he can go fumble through a few notes on Ellen.
A reunion isn't fucking happening, that question's already been answered by Axl a long ago. He did say he would be open to playing with Duff for a gig, it happened.
Do you think its good business to spend 15 years and approx $20million on an album?
It's $20 million now? Last I heard it was $13 million, and even that was a figure that no one seemed to be able to find any proof of.
Bitter much? You have no idea what you are talking about.
Its 'fans' like you who lead the public to believe that disputes between band members are worse than they appear.
I'm sending some love your way brother. Chill man. Have a nice day
The first part of my post wasn't direct to you. The second part was, the replies got joined by the forum software since they were so close together in the time I made them.
I love the current lineup and CD, so not much to be bitter about.
I'm definitely a "fan", I've followed this band since 86-87, this was before Appetite caught on with the masses. I bought the Lies EP and Illusions albums the days they came out. The Spaghetti Incident was a huge letdown and something definitely needed to change. They were good, but this was a band always with troubles and things fell apart. It was time for a change.
I'm not fueling a fire at all, and I think it's great Duff joined the band for a gig. I'm not anti-reunion, but I do support the band today and it's very clear a reunion isn't happening.
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What the hell does Slash have on his radar next anyway? That's right, jack fucking shit. He still has to work in that little something negative like focusing on the show being late which to me is just sour grapes. Oh well, maybe he can go fumble through a few notes on Ellen.
A reunion isn't fucking happening, that question's already been answered by Axl a long ago. He did say he would be open to playing with Duff for a gig, it happened.
Do you think its good business to spend 15 years and approx $20million on an album?
It's $20 million now? Last I heard it was $13 million, and even that was a figure that no one seemed to be able to find any proof of.
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What a bunch of ankle-biters. Fuck the Lost Profits.
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If you want to see following the herd go listen to Slash's album.
I agree. There's little on it that made much impression with me. More of the same.
What killed Chinese Democracy?
in 2013
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Thanks for proving my point!