ChineseDemocracy

'So, how did you like the Pigeons of Shit Metal?'

Which of the new songs do you guys think are directed at her? Even though a lot of the new lyrics are great, I think it would be stupid if there were several songs on the album that concerned that airhead!

Even though your wording sucked ass, I think a lot of the new songs have to do with Stephanie. That part of his life was never really dealt with in Axls music, and from what I can gather Axl was very hardcore into her, so to think that only one or two songs had to do with her would be ludacris. She was such a big part of his life that I think she would be a big part of his music.

I remember reading an article (albeit a very old one) where Axl said that he wishes that when the CD does come out that Dylan listens to the record. So I think Steph and Dylan are a huge part of his material. That would be the smart guess.

Out of all the new songs, CD gets the least mention among us. But the "average" GNR fan, or, the average person who knows GNR popular songs and likes them, probably only knows the words to the songs that were on the radio, tv, etc. I think even most people who bought UYI dont know many if the lyrics, other than the obvious ones. Its really a shame too, cause Axls words are just....so powerful, to say the least.

So what I am getting at here is:

I really think CD has a good chance of being the first or second single- becuse it sounds like the GNR poeple listening to the radio and wathching MTV will remember.

The really like CD. It really has the most "origianal GNR" sound to it. Not that thats what I prefer, cause I really, really love the new stuff !!

The music(guitars, drums and even Axls voice) is what has sold the vast majority of the records, rather than the EXCELLENT lyrics Axl has given us.

The new songs have some very deep lyrics, that inspire alot of though, but thats not what has sold all the albums.

So what do you think? Where does CD stand in terms of a single?

I think if the album is called 'Chinese Democracy' still, I think that song would most likely be a 3rd single, mostly because they dont play it all the time, and it isnt the best out of the new songs. I still think 'Better' will end up being the first single, followed by a more mellow ballady type song, maybe TWAT or another song we havent heard yet. If the album goes strong through that, then they will probably release 'Chinese Democracy' as the 3rd single.

Thats just my thoughts. But personally, I wouldnt use 'Chinese Democracy' as the lead single, because the lead single, mostly in this new GNR has to be their absolute best song and most commercially viable, and I think 'Better' fits that bill.

I think Axl's biggest drag-down and problem is who he is surrounded by and the fact that he can't help himself. The group of musicians he works with are very talented however, they are far far below his standards. So when he plays with them it just doesn't work as it did with Slash, Duff, Matt, etc. These new guys just don't give him the hunger, the power, nor the true feel. This is probably a reason why Axl's performances are a struggle and can often be very weak. What he needs is a group of musicians his standards to really fuel his hunger to get out there and just explode into it. And also the fact that he is playing a set of songs with a bunch of guys who neither wrote them nor sound anything like they 're meant to on instruments. And it must cause him a really bad downdraft because it makes him feel unoriginal, also fueling to the fact htat htey are far below his standards which often stops him from performing even their own music good on vocals.

Axl has repeatedly said that he enjoys playing with this band, and that they are finally coming together as a band, rather than a bunch of guys. I dont know how you come to the conclusion that Axl doesnt like playing in a band with these guys.

If he didnt, he would just be like 'fuck it' and scrap the whole GNR thing, and just live his life in his mansion, never to be heard from again. Obviously Axl enjoys it on some level, or else he wouldnt be doing it.

I think Brain actually quit. I think this because it was Buckethead who basically brought Brain on board to GNR, and when Buckethead left, it was Brain who was left in a band that just parted ways with Buckethead. So I think two different camps were in that band. Brain who probably stood up for Buckethead (and is probably not a fan of Ron Thal, as he took Buckets spot) and the rest of the band.

I definitely think there was a divide and Brain just said 'fuck it' and left.

My biggest concern with GNR as a brand is the constant re-inventing of the group will make the brand suffer...anyone that's studied why successful brands work, it comes down to a simple feeling of belonging. Fans feel as if they belong to the brand, there's a sense of community...It's the reason why people choose Starbucks over other coffee houses, not because it's better, but because they feel comfortable with that brand, that brands identity, that brands history, the leadership and the icons, these all play a role in why someone goes into Starbucks and not Dunkin Donuts...

Now lot's of things go into making a brand strong, one of them being "words" that people assoicate with a brand. For many years GNR was associated with words like Axl, Slash, Izzy, Drugs, Booze...you get the point. But now the language of GNR continues to change, words that once meant Guns N Roses do not anymore...so what has developed is the WORST thing a Brand can ever experience - CONFUSION.

Confused people are impossible to motivate and even harder to persuade. As a GNR fan we are always in a constant state of confusion. We don't even know who's officially in the band, we don't know who's worked on the album...we dont' know a lot. All of this confusion, all of this doubt has really destroyed the GNR brand over the past 15 years, and it's not going to return magically with just an album. The reason why is while we are all GNR fans, we have spread our confusion and doubt to everyone we've come in contact with...how can we convince people the album is going to be amazing when deep down inside, how many of us actually believe that? We are in a holding pattern of uncertainty.

When you really look long and hard at GNR as a BRAND and not just a band, you realize that Axl and Co have fucked up so many of the essential elements that make a BRAND succeed...Not even Axl and all of his abilities can overcome the damage he has done to his own brand. Constantly switching musicians, always showing up late, never releasing an album, remaining silent for years...the BRAND is weak, and if the half-empty arenas on this tour didn't prove that, I don't know what else people need.

By having 7 different itterations of GNR, it becomes impossible to love GNR because GNR doesn't mean anything anymore...there is no common language, nothing to binds all of us together except for the confusion and doubt we experience as fans...and these are weak links, not strong ties that elevate the brand. I really think Axl is going to be in for a rude awaken when he tries to release the album expecting legions to follow...it's not going to happen for the reaons I stated.

The first thing you learn in Business and Marketing 101, is to have a BRAND you need a PRODUCT. So in essense, yeah, a brand can be saved by a product.

Ron talks too much. It makes me wonder whether Axl really does have a 'gag order' on the members of GNR or not. Im starting to think that the rest of the band just doesnt want to talk to anyone.

Oh I don't hate the new band at all. I think what they are doing is great. But it is Axl is really bringing them down wiht all his shit. These guys can't even play their own material because he won't allow it, they probably want to altogether create their own band name but they can't because he is too psychotically glued to the name Guns N' Roses, what this band does of their own things is great, but Axl is letting very little of it be shown, which is really sad because he has reinvented history in the sense that he is stopping another great band from being themselves. It 's a part of his Operation Toy With The Band 2

Well think of it this way, if all they did was play new material, how many people do you think would actually show up to the concerts? I agree that they should be able to play their own material, but I think every single one of them went in knowing that they would have to play 'Welcome To The Jungle' every night.

I 'll bet you people anything we will get at least one high quality/proshot show off the US tour. I don't think Axl is going to be as dumb as in the old days to do tours and release nothing from them, we 've already seen how angry people are over the lack of decent stuff from UYI tour so I do believe when the US tour finishes he will sit back and say "Hmm okay which is the best show to release from this tour?" and will pick the best performed show and release it. ....Unless he is an idiot and stingy enough not to give us some good live material.

EDIT: He will probably release a show unofficially over the net like Rock Am Ring...you know, just for the fans to freely watch or listen to.

I remember this same kind of thread starting in 2002 when everyone saw all the camera men at the GNR shows.

Oh no, no no no, if you thought you know Kaneda good then you've got bigger fish to fry than him.

Note: I 'm not bitching or anything...just putting in a dose of the obvious this board needs once in a while. I couldn't give a fuck anymore about Guns N' Roses unless they reunite and come back to existence again.

Alright great, you dont care, join the legions of other people that dont care. Congratulations. What do you want us to say? Its obvious that whatever we say your not going to change your views on the new band, and I could really care less. Just because you dont like them, doesnt mean anything to anyone else but yourself.

Umm, okay. You arent the first one to point this out. But the reality of the fact is that Slash/Izzy and Duff will not be back in GNR anytime soon, you just have to learn to live with it. Simple as that.

Ok, soI play guitar in a band with the VERY un-original name; Hellfighters

Were mostly just doing covers so fare, and my problem is that the leadsinger and my best friend from when we was like 4 got a wierd/lame music taste.

He wanna do stuff like "Three Days Grace", "Stonegard", "Marylin manson" etc....

Wich frankly I hate.

And when I come with suggestions hes like "yeah, ill check em out" and then no responds.

I guess hes kinda a little controll freak. But on the other side he have had a really fucked childhood.

So you know, I dont wanna be mean to him or anything..... He gets easily offended.

Anyone got kinda same experince? tips to work issues like this out?

Thanks

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, and the best remedy I have come up with was something like this. Tell him you will cover one of his dippy Manson songs if he agrees to cover a GNR song, or whatever you want. Its a compromise.

Im in a band, and I like Aerosmith and GNR, and the singer likes Genesis and Dream Theater, so I tell him that we can play 'I Cant Dance' if we can also play 'Mama Kin'

Who even cares about Chinese Democracy anymore nowadays? I mean this whole thing is a fucking waste of time. Axl should just release the damn thing as his own side project and tour it under his own name, then after that call up Slash, Izzy, Duff, Matt and Gilby and bring back Gn'R. All this shit has become really stale, all he is doing is touring from arena to arena playing songs wich a bunch of guys who didn't even write them and he 's showing very little of his own work. It's kind of lame.

But its reality. The reality of the fact is there will never be an album from the band 'The Axl Rose Project' or whatever. If anything is ever released by Axl, it will be under the banner Guns N' Roses, simple as that. I found it easier to just accept it, and if something gets released, great, if not, then the legacy cant be tarnished.

I just want CD to be released because Im curious as to what $13 million dollars into a piece of plastic will sound like.

If Geffen would have kept peddling money into it, they could release it as soon as they got the masters from whoever has them (which is probably Axl). Geffen owns the masters, unless they signed another contract that gave Axl control of the masters.

Usually record companies have it in the record contract that says that they own the master tapes. Maybe Geffen just doesnt know who has them, or no one will turn them over.

But legally, if they had a standard contract, they would have control over the masters and could release it whenever they wanted.

I have read probably about 10 topics in the last 10 minutes and they are all bashing Axl left and right, and it boggles my mind why Guns N' Roses 'fans' are bashing the main guy in the band. If you hate GNR so much, then why are you here and not on a Sesame Street message board?

So for this thread, I would love for all you Axl lovers to show some appreciation for the guy who puts up with all the haters shit, and plays by his own rules, the way Guns N' Roses should be, against authority.

Disclaimer : If you post negative shit about Axl, you agree that you are a complete douche bag.

I have read probably about 10 topics in the last 10 minutes and they are all bashing Axl left and right, and it boggles my mind why Guns N' Roses 'fans' are bashing the main guy in the band. If you hate GNR so much, then why are you here and not on a Sesame Street message board?

So for this thread, I would love for all you Axl lovers to show some appreciation for the guy who puts up with all the haters shit, and plays by his own rules, the way Guns N' Roses should be, against authority.

Disclaimer : If you post negative shit about Axl, you agree that you are a complete douche bag.

Del James is a bigger Axl Rose ass kisser then even Bach.......Thats the problem..Axl is surrounded by yes men like Bach and James who have their lips planted firmly on Axl's you know what.....Bach running around trying to get his name in the press kissing Axls ass everywhere he goes makes me sick...Then Del James with that stupid article he wrote on GNR....ENUFF with the "This is Guns N Fuckin Roses" they are rebels who play late at night and indulge in rock n roll lifestyle.....They are NOT Guns N Roses....Guns N Fuckin Roses is axl, slash, duff and izzy.............Del seems so obsessed in bringing up bands from the 1970s then ask Del if the Stones are the Stones without Richards...Ask him if Aerosmith was still Aerosmith when Perry left..FUCK NO...........another Axl apologist..what a joke

I dont think its a matter of Axl having too many 'Yes Men' around him, because I think once you get to a certain point of success there will always be 'Yes Men.' I think the trouble is that Axl takes whatever these guys say about him to heart, and believes everything they are telling him, whereas a lot of other big time musicians or artists do what they feel, and dont really take what the 'Yes Men' have to say as fact.

I think Axl seems to have a lot of self confidence issues and when someone says 'Axl, you are a GOD' he believes them, and he puts a lot of stock into what his 'friends' say about him, regardless as to whether they are telling the truth or not.

I saw both: Duff blows Tommy away. No discussuion possible. Plenty of reasons for that:

- In the newGNR, there are too many people onstage, so Tommy, the bass player, is in the shadow.

- Duff's bass sound is recognizable, it's a really specific bass sound whereas Tommy's bass sound is pretty neutral.

- Duff has a "Rockstar" aura. His stage presence is fucking great.

- technically I think they are as good, but you definitely hear more Duff in VR than you hear Tommy in the newGNR. Blame the 3 guitar players idea. This idea totally overshadows the Bass. You just can't hear it onstage.

I beg to differ, I have seen 'nuGNR' 3 times total and Tommys bass playing was heard, I heard it pretty clear. Tommy is technically a better bass player (whether that means he is overall a better bass player is your own opinion, and is up for debate). Duff while in GNR was a very sloppy player, he is a lot better in VR than he was in GNR.

I do agree though that Duffs bass sound is a lot more 'less neutral' than Tommys, and is more recognizable. Tommy is more crisp, again, whether that is a good or bad thing for GNR is up for debate.

Everyone knows nothing really ever goes as planned in the world of GnR...But that being said, it is clear that SOMETHING was planned for 2006...(and this is all on the assumption that nothing is happening this year) First, Merck makes the public statement regarding the number of Tuesday thing-not something that someone in the PR biz would say unless there was something there to back it up...Next, we have the Harley Ad....Clearly, there was a business agreement in place between Guns and Harley Davidson to use GnR music, including Better, in HD ad campaigns....As we have seen, Better WAS AT ONE TIME in an HD ad...Which means GnR had to grant permission...which is something they NEVER would have done unless they were planning to use Better as the first single...There is simply no other reason to use a Guns n Roses track only die-hards know in a national ad campaign unless it was to be used in promotion of a new single/album...If the only purpose of the ad was to sell Motorcycles, then it actually makes MORE sense to use Paradise City or Jungle or one of the *signature* Guns tracks...Not one to which very few people actually know the words...

So, considering all that, what the fuck happened? Lets put the screwing over the die-hards aside for a sec cause, lets be honest, they dont give a fuck about the so-called "die hards." This is first and foremost a business: we dont represent the demographic they are "gunning" for...We are all gonna buy CD if/when it comes out...We'll buy over-priced tickets to shows, etc...No-what Guns need/want is the record buying public who DONT know about the new songs, cant name everyone in the new lineup, etc...And they need a business plan to accomplish that....And it seems like, to some degree or another, that kind of plan was starting to come together....

But now, we have silence...Ads pulled/postponed...Radio DJ rumors dead...no new updates from the GnR camp...A pulled Del James article...Houston: we have a problem.

My question is: WHATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM? And honestly, at this point, how could it not be easily fixed?

I think its not as simple as 'Axl is holding the album' or 'Universal wont release the album' I think there is obviously something in between, maybe with distribution, or promotion or whatever the case. I dont think its quite a legal problem, more than it is just a lack of one party pulling their weight, have it be Axl/Universal/someone else.

I think Universal does have the album, and I do think Axl is done. Now I think its all about money and the third parties getting their shit together.

During their time in GNR, I like Tommy better. Early Duff wasnt quit my thing, he looked like a glammed out Rob Halford with all the leather, and once that stage wore out, he was really fucked up with booze and drugs, and started to get fat.

Tommy has been around the block and knows his bass playing, and he has a TON of energy and is a really cool guy to talk to, and isnt cocky at all. I met him when he did his solo tour right before Village Gorilla Head was release (or it might have been just after), and Tommy isnt bloated and sloppy.

Now, with that said, Duff has straightened himself out, and is pretty close to Tommy as far as presence and energy goes. I like Duffs bass lines in GNR more than I like Tommys bass lines, simply because Duff is more 'punkish' while Tommy is more 'indie' sounding.

Each has their pros and cons I suppose.

you can probably get a banged up Ampeg practice amp for about $150-$250 dollars, depending on where you look. i play bass and i have a RIG, and it cost me all together probably around $2500 bucks, and the thing is junk.

get a practice amp until you either 1.) get really good and want to play really loud or 2.) start a band

I saw EODM and it was boring to me, it sounded like lame indie rock. Tommy didnt chuck his bass, Axl didnt throw it back at him. I was there, it didnt happen like that. End of story, EODM are just trying to get some publicity at GNRs expense.

I think Bumblefoot fits in with the band as it is now, the band has a lot of energy and they move around A LOT, and Bumblefoot fits in with that. Buckethead seemed to have a big head and seemed to have a personality clash with Axl. Bucket would stand there and walk around once in awhile, more or less a visual buzz kill.

Technically Bucket is better, but since when has GNR ever been the most technically advanced band on earth? Slash wasnt technically the best player on Earth.

Its a matter of taste really, no one is right or wrong. I myself perfer Bumblefoot, he seems more like a real person than a space alien, or whatever Buckets trip was. I think BBF is still trying to find his footing in the band, but he has a lot of energy and he seems to genuinely enjoy GNR and GNRs fans, so that is a plus given that he is the only person in the band to really interact with fans.

What's the real difference between classical and rock?

Well first off, usually in classical music, they have to record dozens of instruments and dozens more individual people, whereas GNR is 8 people, not 60 or however many, and most of the instrumentation is digially made, rather than acoustically made.

Classical symphonies (such as Beethovens 9th) are longer than a typical rock song.

So thats why it probably took Beethoven 20 years, because he was deaf, and had to literally write 60+ parts of music by himself, and the song is relatively longer than a 3 minute rock song. Axl isnt deaf, he doesnt have to meticulously write 60+ parts of music by hand, and Axl doesnt have to write 20 minute songs.

Thats a hell of a difference if you ask me.

Let´s say that those leaks we´ve heard represent the standard of CD, would it fulfill your expectations? Would you explain Axls work as an success or an flop?

If the leaks were the standard, I would be MORE than satisfied with the end product. Would that product sell? Maybe, maybe not, but it would be more than good enough for me, sure.