ChineseDemocracy

i agree, i saw Green Day here (sadly, it was a bday present for my cousin) at the Palace, and they didnt come close to selling the place out, they sold as much (maybe a few more) than GNR did when they came here in 2002.

but that was in Michigan.

Most of you people dont seem to understand that having a 'sold out' arena is not the indicator of a successful tour. Look at any tour ratings, and they will talk about dollars, not attendance. These GNR tickets arent cheap, floor seats are $65-$75 dollars, and regular seats are around $45. Those are expensive tickets, and if they can sell 6-10 thousand of them, they are making $450,000 per show, and that is just for regular seats, not counting all the schmucks like me who panned out $70 bucks for floor seats.

If a full US tour can take in $25 million dollars, that is a great tour, and if GNR can sell 10,000 seats to their entire tour, they will gross pretty close to $20 million dollars for a North American tour, and thats on the low end of the scale considering everyone bought $45 dollar tickets and only 10,000 seats were sold to each venue.

I dont think that would be considered a 'flop' by any stretch of the word. The days are long gone of top bands selling out arenas. Aerosmith cant do it anymore, but they still tour, and they make a lot of money doing it. The only way to sell out arenas today is to have a cheap bill (Family Values tour, etc.) but GNR cant do that because they have A LOT of things going on, they need more than a stage, they have pyro, sound engineers and all that jazz.

GNR are doing just fine, even if they only sell 10000 tickets a show.

Yeah, it usually takes 3-4 weeks from start of printing until you are able to get the first batch in stores. When my band released an album it took 4-5 weeks from the time we sent off the masters to the time we got the first box of discs.

But then again I didnt get express manufacturing or any of the frills, so it could be less than that with a significant budget behind it.

B)-->

That $13 million dollar figure has been printed everywhere that talks about the new album, from newspapers to magazines, and Merck is the only one saying its bull? Who am I going to believe, a dipshit manager or about 7-8 (probably more) printed sources?

Anyone else sick of Sebastian Bach, the world's biggest lameass being all over GNR? And why the fuck does Axl even bring him up on stage to sing during a GNR show? Fucking Bach was making cameos on the UPN 9 for christs sake! Also, Bach is the biggest Axl ass kisser since Matt13. People get all excited when he praises Chinese D, but come on, Axl is this fools new meal ticket.

And by having Bach and Co opening up for this tour, it just shows that Axl is stuck in the past and surrounding himself with has-beens. Why didn't Axl get a band like The Killers to open for GNR? You know, get some youth to the show. I remember when Guns opened for the Stones, now if GNR are the stones, shouldn't a huge band for the youth open up for them?

Thats why Papa Roach is also opening for GNR.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2622568...TC-RSSFeeds0312

Nov. 1, 2006 — It turns out that Guns N' Roses' "Sweet Child O' Mine" is the voice of my generation.

It narrates the 20th century's transition from optimism to disillusion, beginning with some dude's poetic idealization of his girlfriend, and dissolving amidst the sound and fury of encroaching insignificance.

Watch the full report on the "World News" webcast.

It's like taking your date to the malt shop and winding up in a tomb.

The song's unforgettable opening guitar riff has earned it a place on many an aerobics mix tape, and justly so.

Its lyrics tell of an escapist teen love. I imagine the song's subject, "Sweet Child," wearing ripped jeans and several Cyndi Lauper bracelets, our narrator picking her up in the back of the trailer park in his green Impala, and they cruise to Makeout Point.

As the lyrics go, Axl Rose sings, "I'm just sitting here staring at your hair, and it's reminding me of a warm, safe place where as a child I'd hide." I can see them embracing tenderly, and going to shoplift a six-pack of Schaefer. So far, so good.

Then suddenly, out of nowhere, Slash's guitar drops the nihilism of postmodernism, and lite-rock riffing gives way to wah-wah-drenched fury. His melody lashes out like the neglected cry of some abandoned creature, like the grasping arms of a drowning man.

Our narrator's voice resurfaces — deep, growling and utterly changed. He's asking a simple question, over and over. It repeats and builds into a falsetto wail, an epic complaint that demands an answer he knows he won't get.

Lost Ideals

It's one thing to write an essay bemoaning the decentering of contemporary man in postmodern society.

It's another thing entirely to play a wailing guitar solo that viscerally embodies that decentering. Slash's solo is our voice — 2,000 years after a resurrection we never witnessed, facing a future that seems insoluble.

"Sweet Child O' Mine" doesn't simply pin its hopes for the satisfaction of mankind on idealized romantic love. Nor does it mow over the daisies and burn down the malt shop.

Wow, talk about reading between the lines, its tool boxes like this that obsess themselves with bands. That guy is a walking tool box.

Im guessing either they didnt really sell out, or they open up more seats (not GA) because of high demand. Rarely GA is sold out, they consider a sell out is having all the SEATS filled, not the floor, because there isnt an exact number of people that can fit on the floor, but there is a definite amount of seats.

My guess, they opened some more seats somewhere (not familiar with MSG or how they stage concerts).

Let's look at global album sales. 7% of global sales are in the UK and 40% in the US. The UK isn't a significant market, so unbunch your panties and get over it.

You may think it's arrogant that the CD will be judged on it's sales in the US, but that is the reality. If CD sells poorly in the US, it will be considered to be a failure. David hasselhoff's music career failed in the US but he's a big star in Germany and their market share is the same as the UK's. In rock music, you haven't made it till you've made it in the US.

Statistics support your case, and indeed no band can be considered to have made it until they have cracked the US. That said, the UK has punched above it's weight for the history of rock and roll and on the basis of the trends that have been kicked off here(60s, mod, punk, numerous indie movements, NWOBHM) , and the bands that this country has produced (Beatles, Stones, The Who, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Sex Pistols, Coldplay etc). All of the above have influenced GnR, and these influences are clear if you listen to AFD, Lies, or UYI.

The UK remains musically significatnt, and will continue to be a thought leader and innovator for popular music irrespective of absolute sales or ww marketshare.

Case closed.

I dont think your getting what is being said here. I dont think anyone said the UKs influences were shit, they were saying as far as sales and success go, the UK is small apples compared to the USA. If a band sucks in the UK and hits it big in the USA, they are considered a huge band, however if you reverse it, and they are huge in the UK, but the USA doesnt bite, then the arent considered a worldwide huge band.

Case closed.

It's obvious that Kerrap are against New GN'R (They give them 0 Ks for the Download Festival performance ), and if CD has songs like Better on it, it sounds like it could appeal to a younger generation, because it has a more updated/modern sound, etc...

Most 15/16 years-old Rock fans buy Kerrang (fuck knows why), and if they read shit like that, they will believe it, being the tools they are, thus, Chinese Democracy will lose sales because their precious Kerrang said it isn't good (even though it may be brilliant).

I'm going to bed

Your thoughts???

do people even still read kerrang? i thought they went out of print a long time ago, lol.

Arena Facts: The St.Pete Times Forum encompasses 660,000 square feet with three decks and seven separate levels. The building is 133 feet, 10 inches in height, and 493 feet in diameter. It contains 3,400 tons of steel, 30,000 cubic yards of concrete and 70,000 square feet of glass. The innovative design of the St.Pete Times Forum provides for 19,758 seats for NHL games, 20,500 seats for Basketball games and up to 21,500 seats for concerts and center stage events

i'm sorry, i don't get it. do all those facts mean gnr is more popular than ever?

no, it just means that the arena holds 21,500 for concerts, the one where GNR only sold 10,000 tickets to.

Frank is Brain's understudy, so it's not hard to believe that he's in the band fillin' in for our man, Brain.

Yeah, Frank came in and did a couple shows with GNR on the European tour, then Brian had to take some time off because his wife had a kid during the tour. I think now Brian is just taking some time off because he is a brand new father. I think Axl respects that, that is why Frank is filling in, and Brian didnt get fired.

Can someone post realistic ways we can get it before everoyn else does? with artwork too.

get a cloth, pour some cholorform on it, place on face, inhale deeply.

Basically instead of 'a band being like a marriage' as the original lineup was, the new band is more like 'friends with benefits'

The 'member' and 'employee' thing has to deal with the company Guns N' Roses (not the name, the company) which only members are Axl, Slash and Duff (Izzy, I dont think is part of the company anymore, could be wrong). This was sort of touched on when Slash and Duff took Axl to court over the publishing rights of the songs.

Axl, Slash and Duff are members, everyone else (Gilby and Matt, etc, even Dizzy and all the new guys) are considered employees, unless something changes somewhere where Axl gives up some of his rights in the company Guns N' Roses to the new members. Thats basically all it amounts to. In a legal sense, Slash and Duff are still a part of Guns N' Roses, just in a legal sense, rather than a creative sense.

So there kiddies is your difference between 'employees' and 'members'

AEG is part of LiveNation. As for promotion, just because CC owns all the stations, GNR can still get promo, they just have to pay for it, where before CC probably just 'ordered' the stations to promote the GNR tour.

I agree, we do need to be braced for a let down. It happened when End of Days came out. It happened again in 2002. And now the beginning of the tour is already getting pushed around. I don't understand it.

Hopefully, they are just taking longer to finish the album than that thought, and they just want to make sure they finish it before they go on tour. If that is the case, we should hear an announcement soon saying as much.

But it is very possible that this whole thing is once again going to fall apart. I hope not. And I do still believe we will get the album and tour this year. But we have to be prepared for nothing again.

Exactly, afterall, history repeats itself. My avatar is me getting ready in case it does fall apart.

A8R

Your right, history does repeat itself, when GNR started, everyone panned them, then they went on their ill fated 'Hell Tour' and everyone thought the band was over, they kept going, then released Use Your Illusions and were the biggest band in the world.

Now its a new band that is just getting started, everyone is panning them, and they went on their ill fated 2002 tour and everyone thought the band was over, they kept going, now they are on the verge of releasing Chinese Democracy and could possibly once again be the biggest band in the world.

Damn skippy history repeats itself.

Don't be so quick to critisize, because this time its do or fuck the hell off axl, those are the only two options.

By saying history repeats itself I was exemplifying that we have been let down in th past when things seemed to be rolling in the right direction. 2002 was the example. Remeber they crashed and burned and didn't finish the tour?

I'll repeat for like the 3rd time in this thread that I'm not saying either or is more likely thatn the other, but we have to brace ourselves for the worst. Given the past it might be a good idea

A8R

Why exactly is it 'do or fuck the hell off Axl' time as his only options? In 2002, the tour had good turnouts, before the tour was pulled, it was the 3rd highest selling tour in North America. As long as Axl shows up to all the shows on the tour, chances are 9 out of 10 that the tour will be a success, with our without a new album.

The only thing that doomed the 2002 tour is Axl deciding not to show up to shows. Axl proved to us that he can handle a rigorous tour schedule with his European tour. If Axl can show up to all the shows, the tour will be a financial success, plain and simple.

Because for example, I saw Motley Crue a couple times, and I remember thinking that GNR had more people at their shows, while Motley had a much bigger stage production, and the Crue tour was very successful, as was the GNR 2002 tour, aside from the cancellations.

Now that there is some promo for the tour (albeit small, but noticibly more visible than the 2002 tour) the ball is in Axls court, all he has to do is show up to all the shows, and not cause any shit or fall off the wagon, and the tour will be fine. If he releases the album, there will be a lot more people at the shows.

But GNR isnt like bands out there today, they can sell tickets no matter when or where they play, they may not sell out 60000 seat arenas, but they can sell 15-20000 no problem. Motley Crue did it, all the 80s bands do it, and GNR did it. If they release an album and it takes off, thats even more ammunition for the band to be huge again.

But I know it wont get to the point where nobody shows up for GNR shows unless ticket prices go through the roof and Axl rarely shows up. GNR will always have a fan base, GNR have the most rabid and dedicated fans. Even if CD flops, it will not be the end of GNR, they will have an audience, and releasing a new album will only expand an audience, not decrease it. Dont worry so much, just start to worry if you go to see GNR and there are only 500 people sitting in the upper balcony.

I agree, we do need to be braced for a let down. It happened when End of Days came out. It happened again in 2002. And now the beginning of the tour is already getting pushed around. I don't understand it.

Hopefully, they are just taking longer to finish the album than that thought, and they just want to make sure they finish it before they go on tour. If that is the case, we should hear an announcement soon saying as much.

But it is very possible that this whole thing is once again going to fall apart. I hope not. And I do still believe we will get the album and tour this year. But we have to be prepared for nothing again.

Exactly, afterall, history repeats itself. My avatar is me getting ready in case it does fall apart.

A8R

Your right, history does repeat itself, when GNR started, everyone panned them, then they went on their ill fated 'Hell Tour' and everyone thought the band was over, they kept going, then released Use Your Illusions and were the biggest band in the world.

Now its a new band that is just getting started, everyone is panning them, and they went on their ill fated 2002 tour and everyone thought the band was over, they kept going, now they are on the verge of releasing Chinese Democracy and could possibly once again be the biggest band in the world.

Damn skippy history repeats itself.

Im over 21, BUT, im coming in from the south, going up 75.

All I know is that floor seats are still available for the Chicago show a week into them being onsale. Thats sad. A single, video, hopefully both would solve this problem quickly, creating massive hype.

C'mon Axl. Shit or get off the pot!

I think floor tickets will be available to all the shows, mostly because they are so expensive. I think a lot more people will be in seats than on the floor. My thought is only hardcore fans that have expendable money would plunk down $70+ dollars for floor tickets, they would much rather pay the $35-$50 and get a seat.

I was lucky enough to get the GNR shows that fall right after Thanksgiving (Cleveland and Auburn Hills) so I got lucky. But if I need a day off, I just tell my boss that I have midterms or finals in college, and there is no way I could make it to work on time, so either he gives me the days off, or I dont show up.

"Its a hairs breadth away" ~ Tommy Stinson

when i saw GNR in Auburn Hills in 2002 it wasnt bad at all, there was some dickhead who kept moshing without his shirt on, which was gross. its only bad for the first 5-10 minutes when everyone pushes forward, but after that it was cool. i am only 5'11'' 200lbs.

i checked gunsnroses.com on a wimb and saw they were for sale, and i bought them. but yeah, im up for a preshow party, its at the palace though, and getting around out there is hell, so we would have to party at the palace.

I got #32, #33, #34 on the floor!! This is awesome, Im seeing them the day before in Cleveland as well, only to come home and see them at The Palace!! DONT DISAPPOINT ME AXL!!

GNR arent gonna do a 'huge' video, no label would be so dippy as to give a band $10+ million for an album then another couple million for a video, both for an album that might not even be released. Im guessing if they are going to do an album, it will be a 'Live & Let Die' type of video.