TrixAreForKids

5 hours ago, Twinaleblood said:

Some of these topics are also being discussed in The General & Monsters sticky thread, but I decided to start a new thread to recap and discuss what's still unknown about these songs and their release/leak, open for theories/conspiracy theories/speculation (while any comments regarding the music itself can be left for the other thread).

If mods feel this is pointless, feel free to lock this and we'll move the discussion to the main thread.

1. Why The General and Monsters were registered together, as far as copyright goes?

They seem to be written by the same team of collaborators. Theoretically speaking, "merging" them as a single entry would mean sharing royalties for one song rather than two, but then again even Axl, Slash and Duff would get money for just one song in that case, so it doesn't make much sense. Perhaps there is some legal reason we are missing.

Someone saw them as a "mini suite", but besides similar orchestral work by Beltrami they don't seem to have much in common either musically (different keys etc) or lyrically. 

The hidden track theory: theoretically, it could be. Then again, why would such an interesting song, in hindsight with even more potential than The General, should be released just as a hidden track? Furthermore, if this was true and the hidden track was removed from the vinyl for sound quality reasons, it could have been left for the cd release, which had no space constraints. As we know, this didn't happen either.

Anything else?

2. Who leaked the songs and why did they leak together?

It's probably the first time we get leaks and nothing is known about the source.

One theory I read more than once mentions a generous hoarder who wanted to make the fans happy and avenge the botched official release. This doesn't add up. For example, the mixes include Slash and Duff. After the whole locker leaks mess, do you think GNR would let slip new mixes out? After all, they managed to keep stuff like The General unheard for 20+ years, it's not that if something exists it must necessarily leak (and because of this it's fairly safe to assume no hoarder had heard the real General before, otherwise someone would have at least said "this is not The General" in regards to the cell phone clip from the after show party).

The other theory is that the leak came from the GNR camp themselves. Yes, they handled the botched release poorly, to say the least, but if they really wanted to throw us a bone, why don't simply release the song digitally and just move the release date for the physical version? Afraid people would cancel preorders after hearing the song? Sounds far fetched, given that the band eventually played it live before its release.

In hindsight, though, there is something to consider.

Let's say that, after the botched release and the shitstorm online, the camp decided to actually release The General on digital platforms back then in late October. Can you imagine people's reaction to the "real" The General in that context, without hearing Monsters too?

It's then fair to assume that the songs were leaked by someone who knew very well fans thought Monsters was The General and they might have been leaked together to "clarify" this. This also disproves the theory that the leaks might come from sound engineers or people working in the studios where the band tested the mixes. These are professionals: would they leak stuff, especially on a fan forum? I don't think they know or care that a few hundred hardcore fans online mistakenly assumed that the song Monsters was thought to be The General because of an ambiguous twitter post from 2010 (or whichever the year was) and a crappy cellphone recording. 

Feel free to add anything else that I might have overlooked.

Something tells me there are a lot more “unreleased/unheard” stuff circulating, just not for our ears .

I was there for all of them! First time in NYC too. Amazing experience and great fucking shows!

On 10/29/2023 at 3:09 PM, evilfacelessturtle said:

Since we obviously don't have any official lyrics yet, I wanted to put a little more effort into deciphering than what I've seen floating around.

I've emboldened the parts that I feel are still debatable.

The General:

[Verse]
Daddy, don't
I swear I won't
I'll be good from now on
And I'm awful sorry
Daddy don't
The hell I won't
I won't be good anymore
And you'll all be sorry

[Refrain]
Can anybody tell me why the pain, it just won't stop?
Can anybody help me?
This pain, it just won't stop

[Chorus]
My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack self respect
And lost your sordid meaning

[Verse]
Daddy, don't
I swear I won't
I'll be good from now on
And I'm awful sorry
Daddy don't
The hell I won't
I won't be good anymore
And you'll all be sorry

[Refrain]
Can anybody tell me why the pain, it just won't stop?
Can anybody help me?
This pain, it just won't stop

[Chorus]
My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack of self respect
And lost your sordid meaning

[Bridge]
Don't know what to tell you now
It's never really what they tell you, now
You oughta know what they tell you, now (This line sounds like part of a word was clipped off)
And not really what they tell you now
Don't know what to tell you now
It ain't really what they tell you, now
Don't know what to tell you, now
It ain't really what they tell you, now

[Chorus]
My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack self respect
And lost your sordid meaning

[Outro]

Woah, ah
Is that I never took the time to forgive

Ah ah ah

(Seems like barely mouthed guide vocals at the end here. Kind of like the early outros for The Blues)

 

Monsters:

 

[Refrain]
The monsters can't kill me (every time I listen to these, I hear something different. Not sure these can ever be nailed down without official lyrics)
The monsters can't have me 
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't get me

[Verse 1]
A tour-de-force of an evil old passion
A broken heart that was out of fashion
Dynamic duo, seen your figure crashing (this doesn't make sense but I can't think of anything else that fits)
My early warning was your satan laughing

[Chorus]
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh but it's all burnt down
Oh but it's over now
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh but it's all burnt down
Oh but it's over now

[Refrain]
The monsters can't kill me
The monsters can't kill me
The monsters can't help me

[Verse 2]
You stole my soul with the devil's romancing
All alone in your bedroom, dancing
Thought I could feel somebody worth having
But in the end I guess you're good for the damage

[Chorus]
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh but it's all burnt down
Oh but it's over now

[Guitar Solo]

[Refrain]
The monsters can't kill me
The monsters can't kill me
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't...

[Bridge]
The more I did, what I did, I did for you
There's no excuses for the hell on Earth you put me through
I never cared how much I cared, when I cared for you
To make you better there was nothin' that I wouldn't do
I doubt there's anybody left that wants to know the truth
The dirty secret that you hid away inside of you
Who ever thought I'd be around to shed a light on you?
Well here's the story, baby, I got nothin' else to do

[Chorus]
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh but it's all burnt down
Oh but it's over now
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh but it's all burnt down
Oh but it's over now

I was there for you
It's all I could do

I was there for you
It's all I could do

(It's over)
(It's over)

I was there for you
(It's over)
(But it's over now)

I hear…Monsters Dead, Can’t Get Me

7 minutes ago, kanecrescente said:

Chuck in a studio version of Wichita Lineman to justify all the live performances and you've got a deal

Sorry what’s the fascination with W. lineman? ☺️

The General bass line is super cool. The song is growing on me, but the bass is wicked!

Agree with this! Best last two minutes ever IMO!

2 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

And now we have the true definition of man. One who eats ass. Female ass or male ass? or just any ass?

His own 😂

3 minutes ago, kitstuai said:

You mean Me & My Elvis? 

I’ve never known it as Me and My Elvis, it always comes up as Soul Monster. People are saying they are the same, but Soul Monster is what I always call it. 

3 minutes ago, Its Tino said:

So you’ve heard Soul Monster? Where? You mis the well connected!

I think we all have, it’s an instrumental on the village leaks. It’s the only Soul Monster I have heard.

I don’t see the similarity between Soul Monster and Monsters. Outside of Beltrami these are different songs. 

Wander what these songs sounded like with Bucket and Finck!

34 minutes ago, El Nono Pololo said:

I really like Monsters, but 10-15 years is a shitload of time. A lot of classic bands and artists that showed great diversity wrote, recorded and released their whole catalogue in less time than that. In fact, I wouldn't say Axl's output is very impressive in, er, calendar-terms, if you know what I mean.

That being said, I love how he goes from that hiccupy "oh, oh" thing at the start to that extreme part later on, it's certainly a very quirky and original vocal.

Lots of great vocal layers to the song. One of the more “cool” songs from the GnR’ catalogue by far!

1 hour ago, kitstuai said:

Okay I see. I've heard some people saying they heard the instrumental of Soul Monster and it has nothing to do with our "Monsters" song. 
So, this isn't true I guess (what they said)

Well Soul Monster is an instrumental and I don’t see the comparison between the two. The only thing is that Axl said recorded some mean vocals on Xmas eve, which I’m assuming we have associated to Monsters. Unless I’m  missing something…

11 minutes ago, drlaban said:

Of course these are not demos. This is the real deal to 99-100%. 
 

 

If it 100% then I can guarantee you won’t have BH on any of the songs! All his parts will be re-recorded. Would be cool to have BH and Slash on a recording tho. Find out on Dec 8 😉

1 hour ago, tony adler said:

Exactly, that outro is Buckethead or Fortus, period

Yeah, sounds like Buckethead to me, not saying that Fortus can’t do it, but I don’t see Slash trying to replicate that sound just to re-record it, but maybe. Doesn’t seem like Slash’s style at all. 
 

I think both these songs are demo’s.

2 minutes ago, bangit said:

I may be wrong but it would surprise me if this version of The General isn't the finished article or at least, very close to it. The only changes I'd expect are to have the song in a slightly higher quality on an official digital release.  We haven't seen any drastic changes to the fundamentals of Hard Skool, Perhaps etc from the demos of old. Sure they sound cleaner etc but the song is the song. 

Those looking for really big changes are probably in for a shock. 

Who leaked these fuckers anyway? All a bit suspicious.... Why were they not leaked as one track (I don't think)? Why were they split or am I wrong? I know they originally were likely to be separate songs etc. 

Still lots of questions to be answered.... 

I do believe these are one song split into two for ease of transfer. Nothing has come up on how old these are, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are changes on the final versions, especially the General.

6 minutes ago, Litti said:

Tonite, at midnite

Confirmation of that??

13 minutes ago, Tonyp44 said:

Monsters is an absolute banger, that 3rd verse is Axl just pissed and angry. One of my favorite Axl moments on any song.  My favorite of the new songs (Since Absurd). The general is meh for me. My List so far:

1. Monsters

2.  Perhaps

3. Hard School

4. Absurd

5. The general

I have to agree with 3rd verse, and with the favorite moment as well. Nice to hear Axl sing like that again, brings a huge smile to my face every time I hear it!!

I do not like the re-work of Hard Skool, should have left that song alone, it was perfect on the demo. Absurd is a throwaway for me, shouldn't be on any least IMO. I do hope The General has been re-worked and this is an early version cause there are some good elements to the song but I find the mixing atrocious and the distorted chorus annoying.

3 minutes ago, Grayfox said:

My take on The General and the usage of distortion is to create that buried down sound. Like you’re screaming for help and no one can hear

I agree, but don’t that does the song justice, maybe the message.

The General would sound so much better if the vocals on the chorus weren’t distorted. I also hear a lot of those locker leaks in these songs. I hear quick song ooh ooh in Monsters a bit, or a style of it in the background and yes I can see how Soul Monster became this…kinda cool to see how different working songs can be mixed or used to make a finish product. 

I think the consensus is that it’s Slash playing on Monsters. If it’s not, kudo’s for whomever tried to mimick his style, you got me!

24 minutes ago, kitstuai said:

You can't fit 9 minutes on a 7" 45 RPM, just impossible. Maybe back then when no one cared about the quality, not in 2023

Maybe we are getting a 10”, seems like we are getting these songs on the December release.

The General seems unfinished, I’m hoping the finished version sounds much better. 

💯 that’s Slash on Monsters. We’ve all been listening to GnR’ since we were kids, we know his tone, that’s him!!!

42 minutes ago, eggers said:

My reaction to The General is the same as OMG, I can’t work out if it’s genius or terrible. Monsters on the other hand is fucking fantastic! 

Like I said previous, I haven’t listened to The General cause Monsters is on repeat constantly!

Anyone have the lyrics to Monsters??

16 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I feel like The General is NuGNR and Monsters is Slash and Duff

Totally agree, and I don’t see why they are the same song. One is a throwaway and the other is a hit!

1 minute ago, JimiRose said:

I'm 100% convinced they are one song. not two songs. Type this into YT Guns N Roses - The General And Monsters - blurry face account. Its leaked as one complete song. This is how it will be when released

They def don’t sound like one song 😂