Flayer

I hate it. Switched back.

On 12/15/2023 at 5:55 AM, invisible_rose said:

99.99% of people won't even hear the clipping.

Yeah, no. The emperor is not wearing splendid new clothes, there’s a very clear glitching sound, it’s very noticeable, it’s very bad. The song is good, the clipping is awful.

That said, no, the band’s reputation is not going to be hurt because few people really pay attention to these new releases or anything that’s happened in the 21st century. Guns N’ Roses to the general public is 95% defined by what they did in from the 1980s till 1992; everything past that is an afterthought.

It’s certainly lowered my own personal respect for the band in its current state, though.

On 12/19/2023 at 8:57 AM, SoulMonster said:

People made it seem like this was an unprecedented level of incompetence, only achievable when Team Brazil really made an effort of fucking up. And then it turns out it isn't that uncommon. I heard it also "plagues" some of Tool's albums.

This is an unprecedented level of incompetence for Guns N’ Roses. What happens in other bands is irrelevant. No other GNR studio track has been released with egregious and recurrent audio errors, not poor mixing choices but outright errors, and this one was. The only thing I’d agree with is that Team Brazil is not particularly at fault here. 

I think the mix on CD is generally beautiful but it’s lacking in muscle. Bass is almost inaudible on a majority of the songs. I believe songs like Shackler’s, Riad, Scraped, and Sorry would have benefited from having a little more heft behind them.

It is certainly leagues above the production on any of the newer singles, which have all felt varying degrees of sloppy and careless (Perhaps being the least in that regard, and The General the worst).

34 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

That comment is still there. The top comment changes quite often. 

I see it now, just had to scroll the page about 30 times to get to it. Youtube has a horribly broken sorting algorithm. It's at 194 likes currently, which makes it the most liked comment on the video. It's also the one with the most replies. 

Behind the audio issues, the song is good, and this is the majority of people's first time hearing it, so I'm not surprised to see many positive reactions. But the mix is awful, and people are noticing the audio errors.

31 minutes ago, DeNfr said:

yeah? I just read the first 50 comments on YouTube and it's positive at 90% 
so I don't think your narrative works outside this forum, and it works here only
if we count profils who just connect since the release of the song to say it's rubbish. 

so, yes, you're a minority.

They are deleting negative replies from the video. The top comment was a very long thread of people saying the mix is awful. I commented there. It's been erased.

1 hour ago, bmus1 said:

I think it's because the high end was so lacking on the leak, and that's where a lot of the clipping on the kick drum is. It's not a low-end thumpy clipping, it's a lot of very high-end popping on kick hits, especially in that last chorus. You can hear where they are in both versions, but they stick out way more in the released version.

Sounds right to me. My point stands - they'd have been better off just releasing that version instead, if they weren't going to bother finishing it properly. 

2 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

The thing is: is the mixing a problem outside of the forums? I don't think so. But still, the issue is very real to me.

Reposting some content that I added to the pinned thread:

The most liked and replied to comment on the official Youtube video is "Who in the hell mixed this?"

The number one search result from Reddit on Google is a thread on r/audioengineering where the mix is being ripped to shreds by almost all commenters.

Quotes:
The thing is back in the day people would have said “this sounds like shit” but because they’re so legendary now everyone that works for them are essentially yes men who are to fearful to speak their mind.

Dude you weren't exaggerating. The drums are obvious samples, sound like shit, and they're clipping on one side so loud it's drowning out everything else. There's no bass guitar (or bass in the kick it's all attack) at all and the vocals are just ewwwwww!

The clipping is very bad I thought it was gonna be more subtle than that. I think even ordinary folks that don't do any mixing or nythig like that will notice that. Maybe they'll consider it an interesting effect? Idk, but that's really bad. I also didn't really like the way they did the vocals, and the delay on them made the fact they didn't tune the vocals so much more apparent. But I really understand the decision not to tune them. However, they should have done more takes, imo.

So my brother was in GnR for several years so I know how that band works (he left several years ago)… their FOH guy mixed Chinese Democracy (which is terrible)… so I’m guessing they did the same thing as they keep everything inside their own bubble. Not gonna speak to the song (which sucks) but just the recording: my guess is they did the same thing they did with Chinese Democracy where they had the FOH (Karem) mix it… it’s probably the worst recording/mix I’ve ever heard. Axl is extremely insulated and surrounded by “yes men” and this is what happens. This isn’t a pro mix by any stretch.

The clipping is ABSURD. Like really. Unbelievable. Never heard anything like this

Sometimes when folks complain about bad production or mixes on here I listen to the song and do a bit of an eye roll because the song ends up being perfectly serviceable. However. This song sounds like shit. I genuinely cannot believe it sounds this bad.

It genuinely sounds like something I've recorded at home using Superior Drummer 3 and Helix Native, thinking it was great and then returned to a few days later and its gone straight in the bin.

Wow I just listened to it. Sounds like this was mixed on big speakers with no regard for translation . There no excitement. Its so flat and the clipping is hilarious. Personally I'm not into the music, but the mix ain't helping persuade me to enjoy it more.

God damn you weren't lying, this shit sounds absolutely horrible lol. Yeah that kick especially is just atrocious and the clicking from it clipping in the right speaker during the chorus is horrid

Die hard gnr fan..and novice engineer... this song made me sad.

3 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

One of the moderators of the gnr reddit is the main gnr social media person. I forget which mod it's not a fan run thing by any stretch. It's where people go to post pictures of cats that look like Dizzy Reed and stuff like that. best ignored. 

It's r/audioengineering, not the GNR subreddit, and that thread comes up number one on Google search, ahead of any of the other General-related threads elsewhere. 

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Could it be deliberate as an artistic choice? I don't hear any issues but I don't have a high-end system either. Obviously, if there are actual mistakes that is anateurish but as far as I know there have been different opinions in the "loudness war" and it was en vogue for a while to mix high with the loss of dynamics as a consequence. 

Again, I don't hear it. Arguing that this is evidence that the band isn't giving it their 100% could very well be true, but the same could be said over almost all their releases where decisions have been made that I subjectively felt hurt the music or where they simply made mistakes (like the artwork to CD, the artwork to this single, etc). 

It is simply hard for me to reconcile the extremely emotional reactions here to simply people thinking the mixing could be better. 

They didn’t play it live with dissonant clicking and scratching sounds on the chorus, so no, I have a hard time believing that could have been an intentional choice. 

2 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

All I see is "Love that these guys and other bands from this era are still making music, keep on rockin " with 141 upvotes lol

Do you know why this is? Because that comment, which had over 150 likes and was at the top of the page when I saw it the other day (and the entire thread of replies) were all deleted by the uploader of the video. I know this for a fact because my comment in the thread was deleted as well.

And the uploader is the official Guns N’ Roses YouTube channel, so that confirms that they (or at least whoever runs the page for them) are not unaware of fan complaints about this - they are, and they are choosing to actively censor criticism of it.

Thanks, I might not have noticed if you hadn’t pointed that out. Now this whole thing stinks even more.

EDIT: said comment was not deleted but just ended up buried far, far down the replies due to Youtube's broken algorithm. It still has 194 likes and 42 replies, which makes it the most liked and replied to comment on the entire video.

17 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I think you guys are being way too anal about the clipping. Not even the HARDCORE DISLIKER reactions on Youtube ever mention anything about clipping or the sound quality of the song. I also don't have an ear for it either, I just hear the song, and that's it. Changing something about the mix would literally do nothing for me in regards to my opinion of the song.

The number one upvoted comment on the Youtube video is, quote, "Who in the hell mixed this?"

Search "guns n roses the general" and the number one result on Reddit is a thread in r/audioengineers which begins "This mix is awful - like, the bass drum audibly clips in spots... in only one channel (? sometimes?) - this is the weirdest pro mix I've ever heard. Artistic choices aside, that's just unacceptable" followed by replies that are just as, or even more brutal.

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Why care about the reception? 

There is no shame in releasing music not everyone likes. 

I agree with this, but it's not the issue here. I am in fact one of the people who loves the song. I've listened to the leak (where the audio issues were not as blatant) 200+ times, eagerly shown it off to my friends, recorded myself singing it. Some will like it, some will hate it, that's how it always is. I'm not one of those people who will stand and say "everything is subjective, anything is acceptable." I believe there are minimum standards of quality that should be expected of artists. At the very least, artists should be using whatever potential they have to the full extent that they can. You may or may not enjoy their work, but it at least deserves some respect if they've tried their best with what they have (even if it doesn't live up to the best they've ever done), and it definitely deserves admiration when it exceeds the limitations that they've shown in the past. On the other hand, artists who don't try their best, who let their potential go to waste and do so by choice, they deserve derision.

I don't believe any of the post-CD material, even the most divisive songs like Absurd or Eye On You, fails to meet that standard purely on the merit of the music. I accept that this is pretty much the best Axl is capable of coming up with at this point in his life (and in the cases of those, the best he can do when branching out in experimental directions). Like it or not (and I happen to like most of it), it's music. It may be far from his or the band's best work, but it was, at the very least, work.

Releasing the General in its present state, with blatant, sub-amateur mixing mistakes, is the opposite of that - it's the absence of work, and it is shameful. It calls the professionalism of the band and everyone involved in this release into question. It casts doubt upon how much Axl really cared about the song - did he even listen to the final mix at all before putting it out? I refuse to believe anyone with functioning ears could have given this a more than cursory listen and failed to notice such obvious errors. The integrity of the song itself is hurt by this. Setting aside opinions on whether the music is good or bad, the General's subject matter is gut-wrenching, on that there is no disagreement. Axl was committing some of the worst memories he's ever experienced to these lyrics, things he's never put into music before. Taking such heartfelt material and treating it so carelessly robs it of its sincerity. How can listeners care as deeply about the song as they could when the artist who created it didn't even care enough to give it a proper listen themselves before releasing it?

In short, Guns and everyone involved in this were not trying their best when they released this version. It's obvious, and it's indisputable. They weren't trying anywhere close to their best, and in fact, I'd say they weren't really trying at all, because if they were, with even a minimal level of effort, these errors would have been noticed and corrected. So yes, shame on them, and shame on them especially for doing this to such an emotional song. 

12 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

Yes it did.

I'm going to be doing some side by side comparison when I get home from work tonight, because if there was, it certainly wasn't as noticeable as in the "official" release. 

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

What demo?

The leaked version that came out with Monsters did not have clipping on the drum track.

Lmao, they didn’t have a solo to replace so they just had to find something else to make the final release worse than the demo.

This is beyond embarrassing, beyond the realm of bad luck and goofs that can be laughed at. This is treating their own music with contempt, and it’s humiliating to all of us.

61, only talent was porn, too old to do it anymore, needs retirement money, nobody read her vile and vapid memoirs. Deserves nothing but contempt and scorn.

No evidence, just a story. 

So now this board needs a wounded crocodile emoji

Dynamic duo keep your figures thrashing? Makes a little more sense than crashing.

Listen to these back to back to get a whole new General and Monsters experience

4 hours ago, Cosmo said:

Well, so much for "The General and Monsters is one song, you have to treat them like the same creation, they complement each other and should be listened to as one piece of work"

 

Guess not, according to what we're seeing.

Axl's work process was to have everyone record endless reams of material while he picked through the results like a lego bin and assembled his songs brick by brick. It's entirely possible that could reach the extent of gluing together separate compositions into a single track (the liner notes on the locker CDs for instance suggested that Thyme was somehow going to be meshed with P.R.L.). We won't know for sure until the official release arrives.

My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive*
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack of self respect**
And not your sordid meaning***

* Forgive could be forget, I'm sort of leaning that way because of the rhyme
** Consider "lost their self-respect" instead
*** Could be "but not the" or "but not your"

You stole my soul with the devil's romancing
All alone in your bedroom, dancing
Thought I could feel somebody worth having
But in the end I guess you're good for the damage*

* Good for the damning?

19 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

It's quite ridiculously funny, actually....I am a fan of Robin and Bucket....the first time I saw GNR live was NU-GNR and the shows were great...I can appreciate that time, while still knowing that Slash is the O.G of this band and there is no GNR without Duff and Slash in the first place...(or at least what it became) he is all time great, still making the top lists, go check out the newest Rolling Stone top 250 guitarists...where is Robin? Where is Bucket? Being a great iconic player is lot more than technical ability....if that's all it was, most teachers and sessions players would wipe the floor with the classic rock dudes!  Slash playing on these tracks and folk thinking it's bucket is rather hilarious and kinda the best way of outing those that have opinions based on stigma and where they've parked their allegiance, rather than reality....it is the best thing to come out of this usual release mess! 

Like a blind test of audio experts that can't tell the difference between 320 and FLAC! 

Agree with your general point, but Buckethead always earns a place in those top guitarist lists (on the basis of his own solo work though, not playing for Guns).