themadcaplaughs

So can everyone forgive the band now?

Let us know your thoughts when you get your vinyl in the mail!

Exactly! This is a level-headed response. I agree notice even a few days ago would have been nice: particularly when we know there are members of management actively reading the forums who had to know how excited the online fanbase was about this song. Again, however, many bands where this issue has happened did not bother to send updates until well after the initial shipping estimate passed (if they even provided one to begin with). As Gn'R fans we just have to accept this is not a band that releases music regularly, but I can say since the new song started dropping in 2021, they seem much better about keeping their word than they did in the 2000s during the "dark years".

Look, I understand this band's history and why it has consistently set us up for disappointment and resentment, but come on. I imagine, more than likely, this is the result of vinyl issues. I have seen releases from other bands be pushed MUCH further down the line. I recently ordered some Weezer vinyl that was delayed close to a year due to manufacturing issues. I always felt the October release date for the vinyl seemed a little optimistic, but maybe they had clear word that deadline would definitely be met. Things happen. Enjoy some other music. Take a break from Guns N Roses for a while. We'll more than likely get this sooner than later. If we're still talking about this in March or April of next year with no updates, then go ahead and get pissed off. I do not mean to sound like a band/Axl sycophant. Any perusal of my posts will show I try to call it like it is, but it just seems people are getting riled up needlessly. Remember, just a few months ago, when "Perhaps" did not drop on the anticipated date, and we heard all this same hyperbole. Again, I admit this feels a little different since we actually had a shipping date in hand (I do not think we'd ever head an official release of "Perhaps" until it dropped), but if we want to judge this band on the same metric we judge other bands, this is happening across the board. By early next year, we'll all have likely heard "The General", made our initial comments, and promptly moved back to complaining about wanting more music.

You know, I never thought of that being the case. I know this was a joke, but I'd actually pin the chances of this being the case at above 50%...

Even if the shipper prepare the labels next week, I'd still expect a wait. With the Hard Skool/Absurd vinyl and CD, I think they created the label the day it was supposed to ship (thus triggering an "it shipped" email), but the items did not actually start moving for a few weeks.

While I wouldn't go so far to say he didn't live and breathe it (at least at some point in the history of his tenure), I think this sums it up perfectly. He's been out of the band for almost ten years now, and the last five or so years of the band were really spent just touring. Slash and Duff are back, and he seems to be proud of his accomplishments with the band and happy with how things ended. Like the quote above said, he's happy just doing his own thing and playing these small gigs. Also worth noting is that he gives similar type answers for The Replacements as he does for Guns N' Roses. I think both of them are just a part of his life that ended naturally and he's happy to discuss, but it does not really have any bearing on his present output. Also, think of how many years and sessions the dude played on from 1998-2006 (when we assume the bulk of the recording happened). I think it's completely realistic he would not have a great memory of the minutiae and hasn't had the time yet to listen to "Perhaps".

When I spoke to him in similar circumstances at the beginning of 2022, he said he talks semi-regularly and will always be cool with Del James. Frank, and Richard. Said he liked Dizzy and DJ Ashba a ton but has not kept in touch with them as much but no ill will at all.

He still talked about it with enthusiasm and did say, without reservation, he'd still love to be there and would be if his family situation hadn't called for him to leave the band. Like @bumbleslash69 said though, so much of the details we are asking about (studio time, song names, who played on what) is just stuff he genuinely does not remember. The fact of the matter is, his actual studio time with GN'R was probably over in 2006/2007 if not earlier and everything since then was just touring. I probably wouldn't be able to remember those kind of details almost twenty years down the road, particularly when he is involved in multiple projects. I imagine, beyond wanting to live in the moment, he's more excited to talk about new projects since that is what he remembers the most and are most "fresh" in his mind.

I did a Tommy meet and greet last year. I think the most realistic question you could ask him would be if GN'R were ever actually going to release a follow-up to Chinese Democracy between 2008 and the end of his time in the band. He did not seem to mind talking leaks, but it was very clear very quick that his memory was not really still there when it came to remembering specific unreleased songs, how many had vocals, how many were close to completion, etc. To be fair, it's possible he didn't even really know as it seems Axl recorded his vocals isolated from the rest of the band. I just don't want to set anyone up for disappointment if he cannot give really good answers to any specific questions. When I saw him, he was super chill and more than happy to talk The Replacements and GN'R and to sign anything and everything (he signed my red hand copy of Chinese Democracy), but not surprisingly, he got much more energized talking about his solo work/Bash & Pop and music in general than he did talking the two "famous" bands.

No, it would be Dollar Tree where you can still find copies of Chinese Democracy on CD.

Great read and you bring up a great point; for those of us that were really "all-in" when it came to Guns N' Roses and loving all their lineups, the hype of 2009/2010 was almost (if not) higher than the 2016 shows. Between Axl being absolutely on fire with energy and vocals and the marathon set lists, it really was a great time to be a fan. Not having Robin there was (for me at least) a bummer, but they more than made up for it. Add in the surprise shows and Axl still having some of the "old Axl" in him in terms of rants and breakdowns, I would argue the 2009/10 was the closest the band felt to the UYI era since 1993. I can still remember the ridiculousness of the rant against Madison or looking at that video of Axl hitting the photographer at the airport to determine whether or not he still had the braids. Also good points all around on DJ. I really do not think it was hatred right off the bat. People had reservations about him from the get-go admittedly, but we also emphasized the positives: he had a much deeper background to hard rock than Robin did, the fact that DJ was as well known as a songwriter as he was a guitarist was a good sign that Axl might be interested in writing new material, and even before he played a show with the band, DJ seemed interested in trying to reach out to fan in a meaningful way. And for his shows in 2009/10, he ranged from "fine" to actually pretty good. Like others said, he seemed more interesting in playing things note for note and his whole "persona" seemed toned down compared to later years. I would argue he played Slash's solos more faithfully than Robin (which is not a rock on Robin, as I liked some his versions of the Slash solos) and, in hindsight, certainly tackled the Chinese Democracy material better than Slash has since 2016. Heading out of 2010, I honestly remember the vibe being very similar to how it was for many people with Robin in 2002; there was a lot of room for improvement but the task did not seem above him to be a great fit in the band. It was when they came back with RiR 2011 that all the negative things about DJ seemed amped up: the showboating on stage, the teenage girl level social media posts, being a walking billboard for other brands (and his own shit), and (most unforgivably), his guitar playing really seemed to just stop improving and, in some cases, get worse than it had been. Say what you will about Robin, but even some of his most ardent haters admitted he really put the work in to improving his playing between 2001/2002 (where I personally thought he still sounded great) to 2006/2007.

That could definitely be a possibility, but I do know @Blackstar would know more about the band's status with UMG at this point. My understanding was that they were more or less operating as free agents at this point, but I really have not kept up with the business details the ways some have post Slash and Duff rejoining.

As a former entertainment attorney (in a past lifetime), I can provide a little more insight While the re-recording would be a new recording, and you are right that the ownership of this likely belongs with GN'R. If, however, this follows past releases where we have a mix of old recordings (vocals, drums. keys) and new recordings (guitars, bass, and whatever additional beeps and bloops get added), the label would still need to give their permission for the materials they own. How GN'R negotiated this is an unknown as it could have been a multitude of ways: the band could pay the label a flat fee for each song, they could have reached some sort of revenue deal, or (as someone else suggested but unlikely) the band could have simply bought the rights to the masters of the versions recorded while the band was under contract with the record label. My educated guess, seeing as the label still seems to be involved on a distribution level, would be that they get a small cut of revenue from streams/sales in addition to the revenue they receive as distributor.

Glad to see I was not the only one who noticed "Absurd" got a big reaction. It really surprised me. "Hard Skool" and "Perhaps" got the typical polite applause you'd get from a legacy band playing new songs, but all the crowd around me really seemed into "Absurd". Admittedly, the last time I saw them play it (Raleigh 2021), it was still a fairly new song, but it was just crickets after they played it at that show.

Agree completely. I'm sure if I watch videos of it later, I'll be much more critical. My point was just that we tend to get tunnel vision being on the forum and think everyone is making fun of Axl's vocals. The truth is, the overwhelming majority of people there were probably excited to see the band, thought Axl sounded great, and will never think about it again after the show.

I was bummed too, but it's a festival show in the middle of Midtown Atlanta so I am sure they had a strict curfew. My biggest "oh man" was not seeing "Reckless Life".

At the show. Everyone around me commenting on how great Axl sounds. Goes to show the forums aren’t the end all be all. He’s on fire tonight; going for it with the stage presence more than I’ve ever seen him. They just finished KOHD. Axl said they’re not doing an encore break due to curfew; they jumped right into LALD. Axl has been consistent vocal wise. The only song I could notice him struggling with was Hard Skool. Best Slither I’ve heard from them at the shows I’ve seen since they started playing that song. Ironically, of the new songs, I’d say Absurd actually got best reaction. At the end of the Absurd story Axl said “it seemed like an appropriate memory given that I wrote the song about an asshole.”

I was at the Raleigh show where Axl made the You Could Be Mine comment. He said something along the lines of (paraphrasing) Izzy wrote all the lyrics to the verses of "You Could Be Mine" and every time Axl sings them, even to this day, he thinks "that's some cold shit". He said when he sings them now, he imagines being a certain character from The Sopranos (I cannot remember exactly what character he referenced) to get him in the mood of the song.

It's too bad all those people who said they quit Guns N' Roses after "Perhaps" did not drop last Friday won't get to hear either of the new songs...

I will hold back on and outpouring of how bizarre this bad is and how, as a collective of fans, our behavior gets stranger and more pathetic on an almost monthly basis (and I include myself in that). I'll limit to my thoughts on the song: I actually really consider this the best one so far! I really enjoyed the last two tracks, but as others have said, this one has much less of vibe (relatively speaking) of being pasted together from spare parts. As someone pointed out eons ago on this thread, the drums on this performance (I am guessing Brain) really elevate the song and might be the first time (if it is Brain) that I would put a Brain performance head and shoulders over Josh; typically Josh and Brain's takes on a song are about equal to me (maybe a slight advantage/leaning towards Josh). With this version of the song, I felt it really gave it an energy that was missing on the locker leaks version. The demon/Shackler's voice going on in the chorus is also badass and gives the song a fuller sound. In terms of Slash's guitar solo, I'd place this in the middle of the songs we've gotten since 2021. I felt like Slash's vibe on guitar didn't really gel fully with "Absurd" (which is understandable). I actually really enjoyed his work on "Hardskool" and felt like there were points where his guitar work sounded straight off the Use Your Illusion albums. For this song, his guitar work is a "B" in my book. It suits the song, but never really elevates it. I won't go so far to say he was lazy with it, but I feel like he really could have made this one something special. The switch from Robin's guitar to Slash's is pretty astoundingly bad and awkward: no way around it. Having said that, I can also listen with the perspective the 99.9% of the people who eventually listen to this song will have no idea about the fact that Robin would have played on it or that the bend comes from a different guitarist than the rest of the solo. That bend is pretty sweet though; I can't deny Robin killed it on this song so would have loved to have more of it incorporated (or just left in entirely).

From what others have said, the only track that might have gotten a renewal to be on the album was Riad N' the Bedouins. I remember when those 2008 leaks happened and how surprised everyone was that song had actually survived since last being played in 2002.

I would be willing to bet big money it's this. They release Chinese Democracy in 2008, which Axl had stated would make the wait worthwhile. While it gets overall positive reviews, the general sentiment is "why did we have to wait so long for this album." Thirteen years later, they finally surprise release new music: the first releases with Slash and Duff playing on Guns N' Roses songs since 1993 once it looks like promoters might stop booking them as much with absolutely zero new product since they started touring again in 2016. Yes, both songs were leftovers from the "nu" Guns era, but the general audience did not know that. Worse than bad reaction, there really is no reaction. The songs come and go with hardly a trace other than some articles from a handful of publications the day of. Chances are, Axl knows it will likely be the same overall reaction to a new song released this year. For most artists, that would not be a huge concern; most artists want to release their work and are willing to face reaction or non-reaction to it, but we know Axl seems to have a hard time with putting new stuff into the wild (dating back to the Use Your Illusion days).

So if it was Dizzy's birthday, it was also the birthday of that guy he met in India!

Got mine last Wednesday. Pretty cool little EP. Again, it's easy to complain about the lack of new material, but at least Slash and Duff re-joining has opened to door to some releases of old performances. The band was really on fire at that Wembley show.