Why TF did this thread get derailed with posts about sexy cartoon animals?

Stay focused guys! 

3 hours ago, Draguns said:

By her own admission she said that she was ok with it and they had more sex. Do you think that a woman would have sex with him again after being raped? 

Honestly yes I do think some women would. If you're already someone who has a messed up notion of sexuality and boundaries then I think it's possible to rationalise bad behaviour and abuse away in the moment -they don't tend to be people with much sense of agency.

Most rapes and other non consensual acts aren't strangers in a dark alley. They happen within families, relationships, people you already know or hang out with and so on. It's why sexual abuse is so insidious but also incredibly difficult to prosecute in most cases.

Rarely are people perfect victims and they don't always behave in their own best interests. You can probably times that by a lot if you're mixed up in that sort of environment and have a history of abusive relationships. I don't know this woman's history but it's well known that women who end up in porn/nude modelling/the sex trade are usually already fairly messed up in the first place and I wouldn't be shocked if this was the case here.

I think her story in theory could be mostly true, technically a rape and also a crapshoot from a legal perspective.

22 minutes ago, jamillos said:

So this is violent sex, right, but not rape. I mean, they continued... 

It's a dubious account in light of this lawsuit and something that's going to be difficult to work around in a legal sense seeing as it's there in print. I think it's fairly easy to make a moral judgement on Axl's behaviour in that story but much more difficult to make a legal one.

I read the paragraph about being dragged across the floor and tied up with her own clothing and thought well I can empathise how in that situation a woman, based on strength alone, doesn't have much option other than to hope it's over quickly, she's not badly harmed  and can make a getaway after. Which is sometimes why women don't fight or outright say no. If it was left at that paragraph that's not too complicated a legal argument to make in her favour. However she then writes the following paragraphs that veto that argument in a legal sense.

If we take the book account as absolute truth (which it may not be for reasons others have pointed out) then it sounds like  a not uncommon situation of someone struggling to deal with being in abusive situations when young. Situations they only processed as abuse when older and out of those circles but wouldn't necessarily meet the evidentiary base for rape charges. It might if reported at the time have resulted in assault charges because fancying someone, being starstruck and even agreeing to sex in the first place doesn't mean battery is part of that or in anyway acceptable.

It's difficult to say what impact this will have on Axl/GNR because this isn't a new story and it's remarkably similar to the assaults that Erin and Stephanie sued over. Particularly what Erin claimed happened to her. All that was in the public domain before the reunion and didn't stop anyone (myself included) buying tickets. Sometimes these things can suddenly take off years after the fact and if a number of other women were to come forward it might become a big problem. Difficult to call it at the moment because there's no shock value here - everyone knows what the rockstars of that era were like.

3 minutes ago, PJ87 said:

Only a civil suit can be brought, and the statute of limitations is again about to close this week. 100% cash grab. A porn star goes to a rock star's hotel to f*** and 34 years later, when she's all washed up, wants to get paid. I'm not having it... If she sued when this happened, i'd be more supportive. BTW, i believe the allegations, probably happened mostly like she describes. But F-off for waiting so long. Sorry to be blunt but call it for what it is. Not trying to "victim" shame here. Totally different story if she files criminal charges or lawsuit when this happened. I'm not saying Axl is or was an angel either... 

Nobody would have cared 34 years ago. It's debatable whether it will get anywhere now. Like the majority of these historical cases I can't be certain what the truth is but let's not pretend that almost 4 decades ago a woman or girl could go to a police station, report a famous wealthy man and it be taken seriously let alone reach a court. It doesn't always work out that way now never mind then.

On 11/19/2023 at 1:10 PM, We love Axl Rose said:

Axl Rose with Christian Horner (Team Principal of the Red Bull Formula One team)

 

There's a Ginger Spice joke here somewhere. 

There's been a few personal attacks in the last couple of pages. I've removed them and would like to remind everyone that disagreement is fine but don't make it personal. This situation, whatever the truth of it, is not the fault of anyone here.

Thanks 

19 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Kat is not a little boy, though. She's a woman and I don't think Axl's sympathies extend to adult female victims of sexual abuse. Remember the "Free Mike Tyson" T-shirt he used to wear on stage? It was right around the time he was doing interviews about having been sexually abused himself as a child. Yet he still sided with a convicted rapist in a case where the victim was an 18-year-old woman. I assume you know that Axl himself has also been accused of sexual and other type of abuse by a number of women. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fernando has Axl's full support regardless of whether Kat is able to win her case.

I'd also add to this the 'Duff is a big feminist so he would totally do something'.

No. Duff, like a lot of men who go on to have daughters end up having to do a bit of recalibration and self reflection because they don't like the thought of their daughters being badly treated or harmed. This doesn't automatically mean they remember or care that other women are someone's daughter too.

Of course he may care about women not related to him but it's not a given anymore than it is that Slash or Axl would care.

27 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

That "family doesn't need contracts" thing seems incredibly likely. 

Family doesn't indeed need contracts. Million dollar touring enterprises do. If GNR aren't aware of this, then Kat is in for a very big day. 

This 'family' stuff is ridiculous. It's how the mafia operates not big businesses (which GNR definitely is). Even Fernando should have a water tight contract. If he doesn't he should be questioning at this point whether this might be a bad thing for him too.

I wonder if Mick Jagger is still available to run up a Power Point session on Rock Band Business 101? 

5 hours ago, PJ87 said:

As a lawyer myself, I see this as nothing more than financial dispute. Bringing claims of harassment and retaliation won't survive if she isn't an employee. An employment relationship is a prerequisite, she herself admits she was a 1099 contractor and not an employee. At best, these are breach of contract and copyright claims. The employment/harassment related claims are to attempt to gain leverage and are likely just salacious in nature (and could potentially invoke a reimbursement of attorneys fees in California). I suspect GNR/Lebeis will file a demurrer motion to this complaint rather swiftly.

This case will probably be settled out of court fairly quickly. It's a typical business dispute, these things happen all the time in business and GNR, touring, and music industry is no different. I will add that I read the complaint by Benzova's lawyer, it was pretty sloppy, and he's been licensed for only ONE YEAR. He will be outmatched. Not to say her claims don't have some merit, I wouldn't know that one way or another. But just because she alleges things doesn't make them true. She could take any little off color joke made in the last 7 years of touring, and spin it to look salacious and bad. Curious to know whether she played along and made any jokes or innuendos along the way... Hell hath no fury like a photographer scorned! 

I agree the document isn't great. Some of the spelling is terrible for a legal document. It's likely she can't afford good representation so best case scenario for everyone involved is that it's settled out of court. Doesn't mean there's no truth to her allegations but people rarely get proper justice in David v Goliath type situations.