Lies They Tell

59 minutes ago, Karice said:

Cool! 😀 But in all honesty "Axl," in your post should have read as "Dexter," right? 🤔💡

Sure, he used the name "Dexter". I asked him this question on the chinesedemocracy.com message board back in the day. Unfortunately that website no longer exists.

38 minutes ago, Karice said:

😀 What question did you ask him? 😀

This:

Lies They Tell: Hi Axl! Chinese Democracy awesome, but it's a pretty ballady album compared to previous GNR albums. Is this the new direction of GNR or will some of the future GNR albums be more focused on hard rocking songs again?

Axl: What I know is it's the record that was able to get through the red tape and get itself out there while helping friends, loved ones and myself along the way. The whole ballad or rocker thing has never been something I've ever cared too much about. There's some meaner sections ahead but a particular focus once there were a few of the newer guys together was to bring a bit more beauty into our efforts.

I hope so! Those were good times. Axl even answered one of my questions. 

This is a weird thread, but I guess I'll answer anyway.

1. Hard Skool

This is exactly what was missing on CD1. A pure old school rocker. Amazing aggressive vocals. Love the finished version so much more than the demo.

2. The General

I just love dark and epic music. Wish it was longer.

3. Absurd

Simple but effective. Gets me pumped up every time.

4. Perhaps

Great melodies, but a bit repetitive.

5. Just Ken

It's a fun little tune, but not really something that I would listen to outside of the movie.

6. Killing Floor

Instrumentally it's great but unfortunately I can't stand Brian Johnson's vocals on this one. Sounds like Tom Jones or something. Obviously it's not objectively bad, but it's just not my cup of tea at all.

54 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

1. well done for proving my point and not even realising it. Thank you! Yes, tarantino said he's done! Correct! What did Axl say? 

Again, what on earth do you want Axl to say? He's not retiring, so he can't say that he is done releasing music. It's more or less guaranteed that they'll be back touring again at some point and it's pretty obvious that they'll release a couple new songs again. Your problem is that they are releasing music too slowly. So, I'll ask again, would you be satisfied if Axl said that he is a slow songwriter. Cause I don't know what else you're expecting him to say. He is not done releasing music, so you can't expect him to say that he is. Quentin Tarantino has said that the next movie will be his last. But even if he changed his mind and retired without making that last movie, it would be fine. It's his life. The fact that I'm his fan doesn't change anything. He doesn't owe me more movies.

1 hour ago, JimiRose said:

 as literally every person that has heard each of the 4 have either said the mix is terrible OR the song is terrible OR both! 

You mean some nerds on Mygnr? Most casual fans loved Hard Skool and Perhaps. You only need to step ouside of Mygnr and look at the Youtube comments section for example. Most comments are overwhelmingly positive. Most people don't have a problem with the mix. Absurd and The General have been more controversial, because people always tend to hate new GNR songs that don't sound enough like classic GNR. Then again a portion of the fans want songs that are more experimental. So GNR have been pretty successful at pleasing both types of fans. Which in my opinion is another sign of the fact that Axl actually cares. He tries to release songs for both the old school fans and for the fans who enjoy more experimental sounds. Everyone and their mother called Chinese Democracy overproduced, so I'm not personally surprised that these songs have this raw underproduced sound to them. One could argue that if Axl didn't care about these songs he wouldn't have listened to the criticism that CD1 got. But it seems like he did listen. Maybe they overcorrected with this raw production, but at least it's not overproduced.

1 hour ago, JimiRose said:

I happen to like all 4 songs, but the mixes and way each was released was abysmal.

You know, there's a difference in saying that Axl doesn't care and saying that Axl doesn't care enough. If your expectation is that GNR should be promoting the shit out of these songs and doing the best they can to become the biggest band in the world again, then no, I don't think Axl cares about that. But clearly he still cares about releasing music. otherwise he wouldn't release music.

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

No, he owes me songs because he is the 'artist' and i am the fan. That is literally the deal.

What deal? Who made this deal with you? That's not how it works. I'm a fan of Quentin Tarantino, but that doesn't mean that he owes me more movies after the next one, that's apparently his last movie. I've never made a deal with Quentin Tarantino, just like you've never made a deal with Axl. The deal is nothing but your imagination. It's not a real. If I decide that I'm a fan of your posts here, that doesn't mean that you have to post here for the rest of your life. That is such absurd logic. Quit acting like an entitled bitch. Axl has never promised you to release more music if you buy GNR merch. You made it up yourself and now you're whining because GNR doesn't follow the rule that you made up in your head.  If you buy GNR merch you get GNR merch. That is the deal. That has always been the deal. Nobody has ever promised you anything else if you buy GNR merch. You're acting like one of those creeps who buys flowers to a woman and then starts yelling cause she doesn't automatically spread her legs . As if she owes you sex because you decided to buy those flowers. That's not a healthy attitude.

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Actually the amount they wrote, then recorded in that initial period was pretty rapid.

Artists often experience periods of creativity and periods of less creativity. That's shouldn't be news to anyone. You tend to write more and faster when you are very inspired. But then you can have periods when you write slower. Especially when artists become older, they often start to write either slower or their art might also become less insipired. It's normal. 

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

I am not throwing out wild guesses here. We have quotes from most musicians he's worked with the man himself in 2016,

What are you talking about? Nobody has ever said that Axl doesn't care about these songs. What quotes are you talking about and what are these quotes supposed to prove?

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Sure there's a chance I am wrong

You got that right! As I said, this is all just speculation

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

I'd like to know your definition of caring?

I don't have my own definitions. According to merriam-webster, one definition would be: "to feel interest or concern".

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

All evidence I have seen tells me he doesnt care.

If he doesn't care about these songs, why did he release them? Why did they rework these songs with Slash and Duff and why are they playing them live? Why didn't Axl just abandon these songs if he doesn't care about them? If he didn't care about releasing music, you would think that he wouldn't release music. Instead he is releasing music. So that is pretty major evidence against your claim that he doesn't care about releasing music. When he is in fact releasing music.

3 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

I still find it strange people say Axl really cares about getting these songs out there.

I see nothing strange about that.

8 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

considering nearly all of those songs came from the 98/99 sessions we're talking 26 years later.

So? All we know is that he is releasing these songs many years later. But that doesn't say anything about how much Axl cares about these songs. You could interpret these things any way you want. You could also say that he cares about these songs so much that he hasn't been able to release them before he was fully satisfied with them. You could also theorize that Axl's been writing new songs throughout all these years and he didn't want to release the old songs before he had enough new material that he was satisfied with. You can make tons of different theories about these things, but at the end of the day this is all just speculation. The only fact is that Axl is releasing these songs many years later than when they were originally written. Everything else is just speculation.

3 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

I mean, did he even expect to live this long? he's 62.

I think he did. I surely expect to live that long. It's also possible that he doesn't really think about death much. I mean the songs are probably going to be released posthumously anyway, even if he dies. So his death doesn't really have all that much to do with whether or not the songs will be released.

21 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

he cannot be arsed to go through the whole writing recording releasing process again, even with slash and duff.

Again, this is speculation. For all we know, Axl could be recording new music right now. We simply don't know

24 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

but it's the tease to the fans and the promise of so much more. 

What are you talking about?

24 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

The worst thing is idiots here will say 'Axl don't owe you a thing'

I mean, that's kinda true though. Obviously if you've paid for a concert ticket, Axl does owe you to show up and perform in that concert or otherwise you should get your money back. But other than that. He has every right to retire now, if he wants to.

27 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

If he says he has songs to release that GnR fans will like

I don't think he has ever said that. He has said that CD2 was pretty much done years ago. But he also said that if you didn't like CD1, you probably won't like CD2 either. Well those weren't his exact words, but something along those lines. I don't think he has ever promised that GNR fans will like those songs. Obviously Axl doesn't owe you anything just because you buy GNR merch. No, if you pay for GNR merch, the transaction is that you get the merch that you paid for. You have already gotten what you paid for. Nobody owes you anything more.

33 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

And if he doesn't want to do that anymore, that is fine, just tell us.

If he doesn't want to do what? Release music? They just released The General and Perhaps, so obviously he still wants to release music. Does he want to release music as often as you would like him to? I don't think he is capable of writing new music as fast as you would like him to. So even if he would want to release music more often, I don't think he is capable of doing that. But that's speculation on my part. What ever the case may be, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point that GNR is releasing music at a very slow pace. So I don't know what you're expecting Axl to tell us. That he is a slow songwriter? Would you be satisfied if he said that?

Here's my ranking of all the songs with vocals: 

1. Better

2. There Was A Time

3. Monsters

4. Prostitute

5. Chinese Democracy

6. Oh My God

7. Hard Skool

8. Atlas Shrugged

9. The General

10. This I Love

11. Absurd

12. Catcher In The Rye

13. Shackler's Revenge

14. Sorry

15. Perhaps

16. Street of Dreams

17. State of Grace

18. I.R.S

19. Going Down

20. Riad N' The Bedouins

21. Scraped

22. Madagascar

23. If The World

24. Eye On You

Youtube is already full of fanmade AI music videos that are pretty much the same quality as The General's official video. Like this one for example:

Keep in mind that 'Dance Alone' by Sia and Kylie Minogue was released just a few days ago. This AI music video was made in a couple of days by a fan. Nobody can convince me that the video for 'The General' took a lot of effort to make.

It's fine to make silly, low-effort videos, but please don't market them with a 'Get ready for something really F'N special' slogan. Imagine if they had called 'My World' something really F'N special in the nineties. It was fine as a goofy, low-effort joke song, but hyping it up beforehand would have been ridiculous.

6 minutes ago, DeNfr said:

I mean, who regularly listens to If the World, Catcher In the Rye, I.R.S. or even Street of Dreams & Madagascar? 

Depends on what you mean by listening regularly. All of those songs are on my playlists along with all the other music that I listen to. So I'd say that I listen to them about as regularly as all the other music that I listen to.

If I only listened to the very best of the best music that's ever written, I'd get bored with those songs very quickly. There's not enough AAA+ songs on this planet.

To have enough variety, I need to have songs that are "only" pretty good, on my playlists.

Wow! A name for a new GNR song! I've missed this. This is the type of stuff I want to hear more. We even got a little bit of info about what the song might be about.

Unfortunately the interviewer switched the topic for some reason. It almost felt like Duff would have wanted to talk more about the song, but the interviewer just changed the topic. I would have liked to hear if Axl has heard the song. It's difficult to count it as a potential future GNR song without knowing if Axl is interested in working on it.

It was a good interview, but switching the topic at the most important moment of the interview was a fail

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I am sort of surprised that so many seem to almost loath The General, the song. I mean, clipping issues and poor mix aside and too late and not living up to expectations and all that, valid or not, to me it is still a decent rocking song. The chorus is very classic Guns to me, with driving power chords under a belting Axl. Axl even puts in some really fierce attack into the, "ones who understand". People always mention the bridge in Monsters, well, you have the same anger in that line in the General chorus. And the drums are great.

Yeah, I don't really understand the hate either. My biggest problem with the song is that it ends too soon, which I guess is a positive thing in some ways because I want more of it. In fact, I've tried to find more bands that make dark and epic music, preferably with an orchestra. But it's difficult to find anything that's quite like 'The General' and 'Monsters.'

But, in general, it seems like people tend to hate songs where Axl uses any kind of effects on his voice. 'Oh My God' got a lot of hate back in the day. 'Absurd' got a lot of hate. The same thing happened with 'The General.' Personally I don't mind the effects, but clearly many people hate it.

I can't be too critical, considering that I wrote this when the Perhaps music video was released:

"Hopefully they manage to keep up with the good work and The General will have a music video as well. Personally I would love to see a video that's more than just touring and backstage footage. But any video is better than nothing."

Still the honest truth is that I'm not a big fan of this. Don't like the generic anime inspired art style for starters. It seems to be the default art style that AI often chooses for some reason. This will probably look very dated within a couple of years. AI is getting better so fast. Even fanmade AI videos will look so much better than this in only a couple of years.

This would have been fine as a lyric video. Nobody puts much effort into lyric videos anyway and it would have been great to see the official lyrics finally. But the problem is that they're marketing this as a real music video and calling it something F'N special.

In theory this could have been great. I like the scenes where the band members morph into AI creatures. There's some neat ideas here and there, like the melting Teddy Bear. I get what they were going for. In principle I have nothing against trippy AI videos. I just don't like the execution. It looks cheap and the animation is even lagging in some places.

The world is filled with great animated music videos, like Do the Evolution by Pearl Jam for example. Why can't GNR do something like that instead? What is stopping them? Maybe it's just cause I really like The General as a song. I think it would have deserved a better video.

At the end of the day it's a matter of taste. I guess this is better than nothing. But honestly I personally liked the alligator more than this. 

1 hour ago, DoMw94 said:

That showed us nothing. Nothing about that song was AI generated

If anything, that showed us a good side of AI. How it can be used to isolate vocals and make remasters even better.

Yeah, a music video/ lyric video is by far the most likely option. That AI stuff looks pretty bad unfortunately. But if we finally get official lyrics for The General, that's something I guess.

I've only seen GNR live twice.

Helsinki 2006

This was actually the first gig I've ever attended. (Not just GNR but in general) I was almost in the front row and could feel the warmth of the pyro. Axl was in a playful mood. I remember that he was throwing a ball with Frank. I think this was also the first gig where Axl performed Street of Dreams standing on top of the piano. I was one of the few who could sing along to the new CD songs because I had heard the leaks. Axl sounded amazing and I remember being blown away after the show.

Hämeenlinna 2017

It was amazing to see GNR with Slash and Duff. Axl didn't sound as good as in 2006 obviously and he wasn't as playful either. I wasn't even close to the front row this time, so the experience wasn't as mind blowing as last time. But on the other hand they played EVERY SINGLE SONG that I wanted to hear and more. Coma was probably the highlight for me and the fireworks at the end was a nice touch as well.

It's pretty difficult for me to rank these shows, because 2006 was my first show and I was almost at the front row, so the experience was better in that sense. Axl also sounded better. On the other hand in 2017 Slash and Duff were there and they played every GNR song I've ever wanted to hear live.

Not sure what it means to be OFFICIALLY a GNR fan. I was a kid during the Appetite and UYI days. My brother had some GNR music on tape – I think it was 'Don't Cry,' 'Don't Damn Me,' 'Bad Apples,' and 'Live and Let Die.' I liked it, and I remember trying to hold the note at the end of 'Don't Cry' as long as Axl did. I was about six years old at the time.

Later in the nineties, my brother purchased the actual CDs: AFD, UYI1/2, and Spaghetti Incident. I fell in love with 'Welcome to The Jungle' 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Coma' especially. I was a teen at that time.

At some point, I decided to take a look at what GNR is up to and learned that Slash had left the band, and GNR had new members. I listened to the new songs 'Chinese Democracy,' 'The Blues,' 'Madagascar,' 'Riad n' the Bedouins,' 'Silkworms,' and 'Oh My God.' I liked 'Chinese Democracy' and 'Oh My God' especially. I thought that what Axl was doing had a lot of potential, and he seemed ambitious, so I was intrigued. Waiting for 'Chinese Democracy' felt like an eternity at that time, even though, with hindsight, it wasn't even that long compared to how long we've waited for CD2.

My brother thought that GNR had become a joke, and so did a lot of other people during those years. So I couldn't really talk about GNR with anyone besides people online. I started visiting these forums, mostly chinesedemocracy.com. I remember the first leaks. I remember when Axl came to chat with people on all the main forums. He even answered one of my questions. I got to see GNR for the first time in 2006, and I guess at some point during all these years, I officially became a GNR fan. But I'm not really sure where the line goes between a casual fan and an official fan.

Here's my most streamed songs of 2023:

1. Perhaps - Guns n' Roses

2. Frenzy - Iggy Pop

3. Gold Teeth - Blood Orange

4. Hard Skool - Guns n' Roses

5. Cool for Chaos - Nostalghia

6. Julian - Die Arkitekt

7. Blind Leading the Blind - Geto Boys

8. You Never Knew My Mind - Chris Cornell

9. Society - Eddie Vedder

10. Sappy - Nirvana

11. Seasons in the Sun - Terry Jacks

12. Killa Whale - Andre Nickatina

13. Absurd - Guns n' Roses

14. American Guilt - Unknown Mortal Orchestra

15. Escapism - Raye

16. Voodoo in My Blood - Massive Attack

17. The Headmaster Ritual - The Smiths

18. Still Disappointed - Stormzy

19. How To Fight - Eartheater

20. Dirt Trap - Firebird

21. Hunter - Björk

22. I'd Love To Change The World - Ten Years After

23. Sphynx - La Femme

24. Rabbit Run - Eminem

25. Summertime - Ella Fitzgerald

26. Jugband Blues - Pink Floyd

27. Third Stone From The Sun - Jimi Hendrix

28. One For My Baby - Frank Sinatra

29. Join Me - HIM

30. Exit Music - Radiohead

18 minutes ago, Zeppelin said:

Yes, I already know that. I already know no one said I should like the song. My original response was to those saying that if you don't like the song, and don't expect to like GNR's recent output, then they should go listen to other artists. A response so blatantly obvious, it didn't even need to be uttered to begin with. Everyone knows people can go and listen to other music. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Honestly, if someone is engaging with people presenting their opinions as facts, then either they're inviting that kind of confrontation on themselves, or they just like to engage with trolls. At that point, that's their problem. Surely, anyone at this point should know that someone saying the song is factually bad wouldn't change their opinion based on Spotify streaming numbers. But hey, if they want to engage in that kind of pointless discourse, then be my guest. It's a losing battle.

I agree that it's usually a waste of time to engage with people like that. So I don't really have anything more to add to this

33 minutes ago, Zeppelin said:

I've seen plenty of people arguing that opinions are presented as facts, and then I look back, and they're just opinions.

If someone says a song is factually bad, then let them think that. What's the point in even engaging with those people to begin with? What do you gain by trying to argue with someone who has already made that kind of claim?

Well at least that El Guapo guy has been presenting his opinions as the truth and claimed that people who like The General are forcing themselves to like it. Maybe there's others who claim similar things? I don't know. I don't normally engage with people like that, but I don't mind if others do. Not sure why you were triggered by DefNr's post. He wasn't saying that you should like the song or anything like that. I think those Spotify statistics are very interesting in themselves. Who would have guessed that This I love has more daily streams than Estranged. That's pretty fascinating to me.

1 hour ago, Zeppelin said:

Streaming numbers. That’ll show everyone that their opinions are wrong lol.

So, essentially, anyone who doesn’t like the song should look at these numbers and know that the songs are actually good? That they just don’t “get it” yet?

Some of you try too hard. Some people just dislike the songs. Not the end of the world like some seem to feel here.

Has anyone actually said that you should like these songs? Has anyone said that your opinions are not valid?

I could be wrong but I thought that DeNfr:s post was a response to people who act like these songs are factually bad. Nobody cares whether or not you like these songs. But if you act like it's a fact that these songs are bad, that's another issue.

1 minute ago, Voodoochild said:

Agree. About The General: It's been almost a week after the release and at least for me, the majority of top comments on YouTube are positive. I know this is not much, and the views are much lower than Perhaps, but that's expected. 

Overall, I think it is what it is. The song is not universally liked, but I feel there's not that much hate as some may want to focus on.

Absurd and The General are clearly more controversial than Perhaps and Hard Skool. Personally I like all of the new songs, but it's pretty obvious that these more experimental songs are always going to be more divisive. I wouldn't even mind if some people called Absurd and The General universally hated, even if that's not true. But many people do hate those songs, so I can at least understand why someone would think that everyone hates them.

The reception of Hard Skool and Perhaps on the other hand has been overwhelmingly positive. It's only really here where I see people bitching about Hard Skool. Casual GNR fans seemed to love it and Perhaps as well. And you can see it in the Spotify streaming numbers. It is going to be very interesting to see how popular The General will be on Spotify.

4 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

I’ve had a Spotify account for 6 years now. I’ve probably listened to each of the new songs over 50 times each. They are new and fresh and I want to give them a chance. I’m sure people on this forum have listened way more than me. 

In the 6 years, I’ve probably only listened to Locomotive, PTU, Down on the farm 50 times. 

They’re deep cuts. I gave them plenty of spins back in the day but I don’t listen to them much in the last few years. And I think they are much better songs than the latest songs. 
 

If there’s a new music platform 20 or 30 years from now, then we’ll get a better idea how popular then new songs are. 

Sure, but at the same time you could say that these numbers are biased in favor of older songs. If we're only looking at the overall streaming numbers, older songs will always have a head start. People have been listening to those songs for years and years. But even though people have been jamming to Locomotive and PTU for over a decade on Spotify, Hard Skool is still more popular than them, not only when you look at daily streams, but also when you look at overall numbers. That is not too shabby.

Obviously time will tell how popular these songs will eventually be, but people used to say that the Chinese Democracy songs sucked compared to the older material too, and those songs would never be anywhere near as popular as the older material. But This I Love is outpacing Out Ta Get Me and My Michelle on Spotify, not just daily but overall. Even today This I Love has more daily streams than Estranged for example. You can't explain that with the novelty of TIL. The song is over ten years old now.

I prefer Estranged over TIL, but the numbers don't lie. Sometimes you just have to admit that some songs are super popular even if they are not your cup of tea. And just because you don't like certain songs doesn't mean that they suck. We don't know for certain how popular these new songs will end up being in the long run, but based on how popular Hard Skool and Perhaps are now, I think it's safe to say that they will always be relatively popular. People clearly like these songs. They are not universally hated like some people like to claim just because they don't personally like them.

20 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

Wow, casual fans are not listening to 32 year old deep cuts over the songs that Guns are pushing on their social media and playing live at their shows? 

They are playing Pretty Tied Up at the concerts all the time as well, but Hard Skool is still a more popular song on Spotify. Even Absurd is more popular than Down On The Farm, even though that one is played at the concerts all the time as well.

And if you look at the DAILY streams, the list is even more interesting. Hard Skool has 13,204 streams per day. That is about the same amount as Out Ta Get Me which has 13,780 streams per day. And Perhaps is even more popular. It has 25,213 daily streams, which is more than for example My Michelle with it's 21,546 daily streams.

You might say that Out Ta Get Me and My Michelle are deep cuts as well, so casuals don't care about them, but seriously the GNR discography is not that large. Out Ta Get Me and My Michelle are fairly popular songs from their most popular album. Still Hard Skool and Perhaps are about as popular. You can't expect these new songs to compete with songs like Welcome To The Jungle. That would be a ridiculous idea. But all in all the songs are doing quite well.