Len Cnut

47 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Tyson would utterly murder Wilder!! Why is this even a conversation?

Because he wouldn’t...because he’s an old man.  Because it would be an awful awful sight.  Kevin McBride he lost to in his last fight, Kevin McBride...and Danny Williams before that.  Yes, the man who went on to lose to Audley Harrison   And that was 15 years ago.

10 hours ago, spunko12345 said:

There is nothing wrong with holding boxers from the past up and giving them their dues. We all enjoy doing that, its a unique part of boxing fandom, getting into the history of fights and revisiting them.

But you seem to fetishize Mike Tyson. Hes been and gone mate, in 2020 he cannot beat Deontay Wilder. You can bang on to me about his head movement all you want but I'm going on biology and the degeneration of the human body which happens to everyone. Even Mike Tyson. 

Even I must fetishize him to a point them because I just can’t bring myself to say he’d lose to Deontay Wilder   Even though, y’know, he fuckin’ lost to Kevin McBridge (yeah, who?  Exactly) in his last fight 15 yrs ago).

2 hours ago, spunko12345 said:

I get all that and I'm not having a go at you for it. Part of being a boxing fan seems to be living in the past a bit. I do it and love watching old fights. But I think sometimes it can stop you (not you) from appreciating the here and now and admitting that there are great fighters out there now. 

This a million times, though I have found comparing past eras entertaining somewhat.

@Iron MikeyJ

Watch Errol Spence vs Danny Garcia tommorow, just give it a try, tell me that ain’t some serious elite level boxing.

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Environmentalism? Tick? Black Lives Matter? Tick. A certifiable BBC luvvie.

I hear he’s a proper arrogant cunt in real life.

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I love him,

 

Such an antidote to the dull, sanitized, bland, wokeish celebrities-sportsmen which proliferate these days - especially in the corridors of the BBC.

Well they did fuck him off in years gone by so fuck em, why should he want their fuckin’ poxy little award now, don’t mean nothin’ anyway.

Tyson said he smoked a zoot before the fight, the craving cunt  

12 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I have that "old school" (well 80's old school, lol) mentality when it comes to boxing. You gotta come in, clear out the division, and get all the belts. Being the UNDISPUTED Champion means WAY MORE than being WBC champion. You gotta go out there and take them all. After you've had all the belts, if you want to drop one (for some reason), then whatever, but you gotta get them first. So having said that, we have not had a TRUE UNDISPUTED Heavyweight Champion since Lennox Lewis retired. We've had a bunch of guys pass around the 3 or now 4 belts. Tyson Fury is one win against AJ away from changing that.

Thats why I have a hard time rating the Klitchkos. They were both really good fighters that would of been hard to deal with in any era. But neither of them actually reigned as UNDISPUTED, they always allowed others to have belts, including each other. So when people talk title defenses, lineal champ, or anything "historical" context matters. You can not give me ANY proof that Wlads title defenses are anywhere near as impressive as Joe Louis. Back when there were less divisions and one champion per division.

I heard Mayweather run his mouth about having beat more "champions" than any fighter in history. Of course you did, you fought at how many weigh classes with 4 titles per weight class. But that makes you better than Sugar Ray Robinson? Muhammad Ali? Get outta here with your alphabet nonsense. 

Us boxing fans gotta hold them accountable Len. Or they will use crap like that to spin history int their favor. Mayweather also called the "philly shell" the "Mayweather shell" because he said "I perfected it, it's not the Philly Shell anymore, it's the Mayweather Shell. I own it now."

I would not put Wlad anywhere near Joe Louises league.  In fact, no heavyweight is except Ali, you can’t fuck with Joe Louis, the guy lost, what, three fights his whole career, with the last two being his last two fights, other than that was Schmeling took him in his prime and got washed in the rematch.  
 

And Mayweather is fucking class man, you can’t deny Mayweather his props.  He might talk a load of fuckin bollocks (which boxer doesn’t?), in my opinion if you beat everybody in your era (and a few from outside your era) then you have the right to call yourself King Shit, why should you dedicate your life to boxing to pay lip service to other fighters, Ali certainly didn’t do it so why should Floyd Mayweather, look at Mayweathers entire career, apart from Castillio I can’t think of a fight that was even close, he beat all the best of his era and then even beat the fuckin’ future face of boxing in Canelo Alvarez...and easily at that, pissed all over him, I got nothing but respect for Floyd, I think he’s a G...the fact that he has the personality of a cunt is a matter for his family and friends, if being a horrible person was reason to dislike a fighter I wouldn’t be a fan of Liston or Tyson, two men who were, by all accounts, very unpleasant to be around in their day.

13 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

By "tomato cans" I mean what the boxing critics would say, but I agree with you. 

I agree with what you said about "you can only fight who's there at that time" which is absolutely true. I don't hold opponents of an era against anyone, but when you compare eras (like Wilder did with Mike), that's when you call a spade a spade. At this point in their careers (Mike and Wilder), Tyson fought better opponents and took them out in far greater fashion, as well captured ALL the belts, it's just some BS for Wilder to talk like that. If George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, or Lennox Lewis want to compare resumes with Mike's then they have a point. But Deontay Wilder? No, not having it. 

As for AJ... Let's see how it all pans out. He's the unknown for me at this point. As we sit here today, he's Frank Bruno for me. If I put Fran Bruno in AJ's place, does much change? If I put AJ back in Bruno's place, does much change? I don't think it does. Which isn't a knock, I like Frank. He just came up in a really tough era, he'd be at the top in this era imo.

As for AJs record, the Klitchko win was HUGE, yes. But Fury already beat him. Fury ended the Klitchko era, not AJ. In the last 10 years the 4 best fighters have been Fury, AJ, Wilder, and Klitchko (not in that order, but those guys). Fury beat 2 of them, while they were still on top. Plus AJ DID lose to Ruiz. Having said that, his resume is solid, yes. But he's still just an alphabet champ at this point man.

I am the last person to be found comparing Mike and Wilder man, that shit is laughable to me.

AJ though, remember, is a young gun, Wilder and Fury have been around for a lot longer than him.  Yeah Fury might have ended the Klitschko era but remember he out-boxed him, barely put a mark on him, AJ flattened him.  Plus AJ is the one who bought the money back to boxing, the golden boy if you will.  Then look at how many top ten fighters are in AJs resume compared to Wilder or Fury.  I mean Fury for example, who is even on his record other than Klitsch’ and Wilder?  What, Steve Cunningham the cruiserweight?  John McDermott who nearly beat him?  He’s a doorman, literally a fuckin’ doorman.  Then look at Wilders, bearing in mind they’ve been around a lot longer.  Now look at AJs resume, Brazeale, Joseph Parker, Dillian Whyte (the man who was WBC mandatory for over a thousand days but Wilder wouldn’t fight him), Alexander Povetkin, Andy Ruiz, Carlos Takam...all good solid top ten heavyweights and former champs, he is doing what the great champions do, or attempting to and that is clearing out the division.  Now will he manage it?  Personally I don’t think so but you can’t call him an alphabet champion, the man is putting it down.

And if Fury has fought two of the top men its because he was allowed to because they thought he’s a fat smelly gyppo from Morecambe that they are gonna steam through, make no mistake about it Wilder fought him because he thought he was a soft touch and they were trying to freeze AJ out because he wouldn’t go 50/50 in the negotiations for a Wilder AJ showdown (nor should he, AJ fills out stadiums, Wilder can’t even sell out his own hometown).  And nobody gave Fury a hoot in hell against Klitschko, thats why Wlad took the fight.

Listen, I’m not saying AJ is king shit but he deserves respect, he is not at all an alphabet champion.  Come to that Bruno deserves more respect too, I think Bruno could fuck AJ up on the right day   I met him y’know, lovely bloke...leans a little heavy on the Joop! though, you could smell him coming down the road  

6 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

The thing about Wilder for me is I did really like him for a while. His rise to the top was similar to Mike's, they both fought tomato cans for the first 20 or so fights, just build up their records. They both are big punchers as well, so I was watching him. Having said that, I was never a fan of his "style" (if that's what you can call it). He fights like a poor man's Lennox Lewis (without the technical skills or strategy), which I was not a fan of, but whatever. I was also not a fan of his ring walks, costumes, or calling himself the "bronze bomber". But I could over look those things for the sake of the sport of boxing. I even "rooted" for him in the first Fury fight mad felt the draw was justified. I believe you have to take the championship, not look for a win on points. You gotta take it to the champ to beat them. 

Where he lost me was first in the Fury rematch. He straight got punked, no other word for it. Then the excuses... The final straw was when he started running his mouth about Mike. He said crap like "I punch harder than Mike", "I beat better fighters than Mike", etc. Which is such garbage coming from an alphabet champion. I don't consider him or Joshua true champions yet, Fury yes but those two no. Back in the day, fighters wanted to be UNDISPUTED Champion. Now they are happy with a "piece" of the title. I blame Mayweather for this, and the Klitchkos.

Everyone fights ‘easy’ fights early on, you only think they’re easy cuz you’re a fan, developing fighters don’t find them easy, Tyson didn’t fight ‘tomato cans’ as everyone says just as Wilder didn’t fight all bums, Eric Molina is not a bad fighter, Gerard Washington is not a bad fighter, Bermane Stiverne is not a bad fighter, Dominic Brazeale is not a bad fighter, Luis Ortiz is not at all a bad fighter, its a weakened division but a man can only fight who is around.  Even the great Joe Louis, a man who, in my book is second only to Ali, had a lot of ‘soft’ opponents on his record but thats only cuz he cleared out the division.

Problem these days is we think in extremes.  Wilder is neither a total bum nor a fearsome hard punching heavyweight of the kind I would call someone like Mike Tyson, Wilder is what he is, a man with world class skills but world class flaws to go with them.  
 

Also, AJ is easily a true champ, he’s fought better men is a shorter time than both Wilder and Fury.

1 hour ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

His ego is shaken right now. That's why it's insane that he wants to fight Fury again. Fury will end his career (essentially imo). He will most likely box again, even after another Fury loss, but Fury provided the blue print to beat him. What heavyweights out there can do to him what Fury did is another question. But Wilder being even considered an all time heavyweight is academic imo, that ship has sailed. Unless he pulls off the incredible, but he doesn't have that Fury/Ali/Holyfield mentality to do it.

Lets be really clear though (largely for my own amusement ) of all the things he's accused Fury of.

1. Mark Breland sold him out.  Mark was in his corner, he threw in the towel, he works with Wilders corner and, previously, had been a gym-mate of some of the people in Furys corner and thus, sold him out and threw in the towel.  So, to be clear, he sold out the heavyweight champion of the world, cuz his ex-gymmate said so   He sold out his meal ticket, his livelihood (and a handsome one it is, relatively speaking), a heavyweight champ of 10 title defences (which is Ali's record, not that the opponents are of equivalent calibre)...to do his mate a good turn  

2. Fury took the padding out of his glove.  There are multiple pictures online of gloves, mid-fight, with Furys knuckles showing through the padding.

3. Fury put an egg shaped object in his glove that caused the various injuries.  An egg shaped steel object which, by the way, was invisible in the previous pic of the knuckles showing through the allegedly padding-less gloves.  And, for some reason, this hard egg shaped object didn't break Furys knuckles...but did break Wilders head.

4. the suit he wore in to the ring was SO heavy that it took his legs out.  40lbs apparently it weighed.  Apparently this destroys a heavyweight champions legs.  A heavyweight champion who, previously, has posted videos of him doing conditioning work whilst wearing a 40 lbs weighted vest

5. Fury paid his trainer Jay Deas, a previously unknown trainer who basically made his name training Deontay Wilder, has been with him since his first day in the gym.  This trainer has since been caught by youtube scamps picking up a package from the ring apron after a mid round break, he claims it was gauze  theorists claim it was 'heroin or cocaine'.  Really, cocaine?!?  

6. My favourite, (and he said this on the Joe Rogan podcast btw) Fury put a Gypsys curse on him  

7. He smelt alcohol on the breath of Kenny Bayliss, referee  

8. Fury scratched him in his earlobe, causing the bleeding (through his gloves somehow, the ones that either had padding taken out or had a hard egg shaped object in them that became hard when connecting with Wilders head but miraculously softened on the other side to escape damaging Furys knuckles ).

9. Furys had his hand low in the glove, where the laces are, something the commision and WBC and his corner didn't notice, the ref didn't notice because obviously he was pissed and evidence is that if you watch replay vids you can see his gloves move at the top.  Nothing to do with him smacking a jab in Wilders face at the time, of course.  And if this was the case why take the padding out?  And if the padding was out where's the hard egg shaped object?  

BTW, for those who don't know, when you get your hands wrapped for boxing backstage, there is a member of the athletic commission present, a member of the governing authority of the belt and in case they're both bent a member of your own corner present while the opposing corner does the hand wraps, all this to ensure that there is no funny business.  So, what Wilder is saying is that Fury has enough money to pay off his corner (if you're gonna take a bribe to sell out your meal ticket logic would suggest that that bribe is of the kind of money that will supercede your earnings as a cornerman of the heavyweight champion of the world so we have to be talking millions here, for both Deas and Breland), the athletic commision, the WBC...my questions is if Fury has that kind of money, why the fuck is he boxing?

Apparently Donald Trump ain't the only yank who can't hold an L  (sorry Americans, you know I love you really!)

56 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

A league of old knackers. 

I don’t have nothing against it per se, I just wouldn’t pay 20 quid a pop for it.  And remember I’m the mug who always pays the PPV when everyone says its a liberty, including yourself if you recall, I’ll pay all day for current championship fights but I’ll be damned if I’m paying for exhibition fights.

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

There are rumblings of an, for lack of a better description, ''old people's league'', Lewis, Riddick Bowe and Holyfield joining Iron Mike and Jones Jr. It would be ironic if it gained larger public interest than regular boxing, and would be in complete accordance with how rock music and Hollywood evolved to their present positioning.

Its more than rumblings, its what this fight last weekend was supposed to be the start of.  

Some good fights this weekend, Billy Joe Saunders v Martin Murray on Fri, Anthony Yarde vs Lyndon Arthur on Saturday and Sunday morning (or Saturday night if you’re a yank) we have Errol Spence vs Danny Garcia.

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Take it for what it is, an eight-rounder nostalgic aggressive sparring session. At being that, it was entertaining stuff. Tyson even had the little black shoes. Warms the heart, that does. The little black shoes!!

Nostalgia porn at its best.  Interestingly, back in the day, when Roy did the unprescedented feat of going from middle to heavy and winning a world title belt a Roy v Mike fight was touted then nixed by his trainer who said 'you don't put a mack truck up against a Ford Pinto'.  But you're right, I should take it for what it is.  Its the PPV bit and the shit undercard that annoys me most, as well as the marketing of it as a competitive fight, more so the latter two bits.  I mean if you had any respect for boxing fans give us a stacked undercard, I would've been alright with that...but putting these legends, that you allegedly respect, on a card with a fucking youtuber on it, come on, its just fuckin' carnival stuff.

20 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Perhaps you should edit your post now you know how to spell it correctly.

No, I think I'll leave it, thanks

18 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is simply a stunning film, easily obtaining high rank on ''my top ten films of all time'' list,

Also it has Rigsby in haha,

He was a fantastic actor y'know, Leonard Rossiter, outside of Rigsby, proper character actor and a perfectionist.  His first three movie roles all went on to be classics of the Kitchen Sink drama genre, he was in The Wrong Box and Deadfall with Michael Caine, he was in 2001, as well as Oliver! for Kubrick too.

43 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

yeah look i get why you've not been a fan of the fight, personally i took it for what it was....i think everybody had a slight hope that they would go in on each other but didn't  happen. Was abit like one those legends games some big football clubs play, they still pack out the grounds make some money for charity and we move on.

In related news i wonder if Tyson really is going to give U-Gods mum some money to go buy some earrings 

 

That shit was as close to a fix as you can get without being choregraphed.  Telegraphed one two punch exchange, clinch, repeat.  And y'know, I don't mind that for an exhibition, its basically public sparring, I just hate when someone tries to sell me that shit like its a competitive fight. 

As far as Golden Arms, I'm sure he can afford to buy his old girl some earrings himself   He didn't say that shit like he wanted compo, he was just saying a funny story to Vlad.  Look at Zab Judah there putting on his best Ed Bradley voice, like he wasn't a fuckin' crook himself growing up

8 hours ago, EvanG said:

it’s ridiculous the name is still spelled wrong in the thread title.

Perhaps you should write to your local councilman  

23 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

i wouldn't say it was awful, i wouldn't mind seeing Mike fight again in something competitive. As for Roy again he's gone into a (exhibition) fight heavier than what suits him, hands were quick in patches but moved sluggishly....you could tell he didn't want to over commit to his punches as he wouldn't be able to move out of way of anything Mike countered with.

Mate, they were both telegraphing shots and carrying each other, its all a big con,  isn’t it all a bit convenient, two legends fight an 8 rounder with style that are basically a cinch for one or the other to win...it turns out a draw, both parties save face and make a few quid, thats all that was.

16 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Oh come on Len, have you actually watched it? It was pretty good. Mike looked better last night (at 54) than anytime he's looked since the first Holyfield fight imo. He just wasn't into boxing after the bite fight, he didn't train well, etc. His heart just wasn't into it anymore. It's a shame, because if he had THIS mentality back in 95, he beats Holyfield and Lewis imo. Having said that, you can't change the past, so it is what it is. It's just good to see him out there enjoying boxing again (possibly the first time since he beat Spinks honestly). 

You might say I'm crazy, but I'd go so far as to say this "fight" was one of the best heavyweight bouts of the last 10 years. It's not better than Fury vs Wilder 1 or 2, Fury vs Klitschko, Joshua vs Ruiz 1 and Joshua vs Klitschko. Beyond those fights, it's better than any other heavyweight bout you can name, and that includes Joshua vs Ruiz 2 imo. 

My biggest takeaway from last night is Mike is still Mike. He is a dangerous fighter for anyone STILL. AM I saying I think he would beat Fury at 54 years old? No. Nor do I think he would beat Joshua (unless he lands a big shot). But I DO think he could hang with them. Do I want to see him fight them? No. I've already seen Mike lose when past his prime, so I'm not interested to in watching more of that. 

What about Wilder? That's the ONLY current fighter I would get excited about. Fury and Joshua are too big for Mike at 54. They will hold him, and put their weight on him to wear him out, then win in the later rounds. Wilder on the other hand isn't "bigger" than Mike. Taller yes, but not heavier. Plus when you add the fact that Wilder isn't a great boxer, bad footwork, etc. I DO think Mike could take him, right now. Plus Wilder is stupid enough to want to fight him. 

Last night, Mike went to the body all night long (probably because it was a lower knockout possiblity than going for the head). But by doing that, he did two things. Firstly, he became WAY too much of a head hunter post prison (arguably after Rooney left). It was his secret weapon in his early career, he chopped down big guys by going to the body. Somebody like Wilder, Mike would hurt his body like he's never known. Secondly, Mike was the fresher man throughout the fight. Which isn't something ANYONE expected. Mike went 8, 2 minute rounds EASILY. How would he do in 3 minute rounds, of a 12 round fight, thats yet to be seen. But if I'm honest, I don't think Wilder would last into the late rounds against him.

I'm just calling things like I see them, yes I am a bias Tyson fan. But I've always been honest about his career. Having said that, I HONESTLY believe Mike could KO Wilder right now, today. Wilder's style is kinda like Lennox Lewis style, but without the brains, footwork, or technical ability. Lennox was prepared on how to deal with Mike's ferocity. I don't believe Wilder has the skills to handle Mike's pressure. Obviously, Wilder could land his big right hand, but that's ALL he has. Mike would attack his ribs, slow him down, tire hims out, then when Wilder lowers his hands, land the big shot. I feel VERY strongly that Mike would take him out. Honestly, I would LOVE to see Wilder pick up a belt, fight Mike, and have Mike be the youngest nd oldest heavyweight champ. That would be a perfect ending to his career.

Having said all of that, I don't see Mike doing anything other than these exhibitions. Which are fun, and a good show imo.

 

BTW, last night was NOTHING like those exhibitions he did in the 2000s. I agree those where awful. Those were just sparring sessions. Last night was MUCH better than those.

Yes I have watched it since and it was a joke in terms of a competitive fight, they are blatantly not trying and they’re not supposed to be either. 
 

Best heavyweight fight in ten years?  Come on, I can tell you a fight the same night that was a heavyweight bout and 100 times better than an old Mike and Roy.
 

So basically...it was awful?   Y’know Tyson tried to do this before, just after he retired, this little tour of exhibitions, of which the Sanders match that I previously mentioned was once, it fell apart quickly due to a lack of interest...and that was like 15 odd years ago.  Cut to present day and people and laying out PPV money for that shit.  And they say species evolve over time. 

1 hour ago, Gavin82 said:

A lot of people said that would happen what jus happened 

My brother did as it happens.  Shoulda put money on it.

38 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

oh you'll pay for it and you know it. The hype has been ridiculous but sadly there ain't nobody in boxing in  2020 that can create this kinda hype, among the general public anyway, that's unfortunately how it is.....and surely it won't be anymore  embarrasing than seeing Wilder come out in that fucking armour, then blame said armour( and a shopping list of other things) for losing a title fight. I ain't gonna pay for it though, gonna watch at a friends house and enjoy it for what it is and not expecting some fight for the ages or anything like that.

Decided not to buy it actually, fuck it.  And Wilder Fury 2 was fuckin’ fantastic man!

23 minutes ago, spunko12345 said:

Im watching the BT night. You have to be out of your fucking mind to pay 20 quid for the Tyson/Roy Jones thing.

 

Fair dues its been a fuckin’ shite undercard...Dubois v Joyce will be good though.