Euchre

Ideal world is AFD5 putting out 1 tune that they all had input into....

11 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

appreciate your answer mate

but a 3rd guitarist?

makes even less sense!

it would make total sense if they asked Pete to guest on an album, or on whatever, but to join the band?

i cant see that

besides, i am not sure about his age but he seems to be at least 10 or 15 years older than everyone in GNR

that would make even less sense to ask a guy this much "older" to join the band

 

Yeah I don’t know the reasons, I’m only speculating, but it is definitely what happened. As I said it was widely reported in the Oz rock press at the time, the interviewer above mentioned it, Mark Evans who was close with both Pete and Mick confirmed it, I spoke with Pete’s niece who confirmed it and told me the reasons why he turned it down.

So it may seem odd, but it is what it is.

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

This is interesting. Were they looking for another guitarist in 1988?! And why?

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

that doesnt make no sense at all unless the axl-slash takeover preceded the illusion era in MANY YEARS!

It does seem strange, but I assume they were thinking of a 3rd guitarist. Pete Wells played slide guitar in Rose Tattoo, so certainly could have brought a different dynamic to GNR.

Pete also played bass in Buffalo prior to the Tatts, so would have been quite versatile as well.

As to why - maybe it wasn’t thought through to well - they were massive Rose Tattoo fans and Pete was the driving force behind Rose Tattoo originally so maybe the saw he wasn’t doing much and threw it out there on the spur of the moment. That tour was Dec 88 and I think it was the first time they met he guys from the Tatts.

You’ve got to remember at that stage Lies was perhaps only out for a week or so if it was even available in Oz at that point. so that whole GNR/Rose Tattoo connection wasn’t so strong. What I mean by this I was talking to the Geordie Leach bass player from Rose Tattoo a few months back about GNR and he wasn’t aware of Live Like A Suicide, let alone that Nice Boys was on there - the first he knew that they did it was after Lies came out.

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

the one guy from rose tattoo that would be a much better fit to GNR than any of the known aliens is the one that appears on the very opening scene of the video above

the one with the crazy haircut who keeps doing lunatic faces and singing bizarre backing vocals during the video as if he has just escaped from a mental institution!

is that mick cocks?

 

No that is Rob Riley he replaced Mick Cocks for the 3rd album.

Mick went onto play guitar in a band called Heaven and then was replaced in Heaven by Mark Evans...

Wow, I didn’t realise GNR approached Mick Cocks, but Mark would know.

Having said that, I’m not sure he has the timeline quite right relative to Pete Wells, unless GNR approached Pete twice, which they well could have, and may fit better with the below.

Pete was definitely approached around the time of GNRs 88 tour of Oz. It was reported in the press at the time - I’ve still got the magazines reporting it, and many years later (after Pete’s death) I met his niece and she confirmed it for me and went through the reasons why he knocked it back. Some what co incidentally, this discussion took place at a show Mark Evans was playing !

i also saw it reported in one magazine that both Pete and Mick were approached, but I can’t remember the date of that mag, hence not sure if it was after Izzy left. I had always put it down to an error. I also have a vague recollection of asking Mick about it one night after a Doomfoxx show, and I thought he said it wasn’t true, however it was after quite a few drinks so I must be remembering that wrong...

7 minutes ago, zombux said:

thanks for your input! much appreciated!

the other Back off Bitch demo might be the one from UYI sessions (Axl's Advance Copy or similar source).

It’s an old demo, definitely 86 or before. After I posted I started thinking maybe it’s Mystic - is there some place I can listen to Mystic ?

i also started to wonder if that Anything Goes was Mystic as well - is the Mystic version like Roots or like Sound City ?

On 20/07/2018 at 10:54 PM, zombux said:

@Nikki_Sixx let me correct you a bit - the list you posted is 100% correct if you talk AFD Super Deluxe Edition. 

if you talk about the Locked N' Loaded Box set, numbers 1-5 are in there on the hidden bonus cassette.

+ also missing from any AFD re-release is One In A Million (album version from GNR Lies) - probably recorded in Rumbo Studios, January 1988.

With the Rumbo thing, my best guess - and this is just speculation - is that the did overdubs for the the Image sessions were done at Rumbo. Most of the Lies stuff has electric guitar through it, and had a bit more production than the Move To The City that just came out. My guess is they recorded the 4 songs (ie not Patience as it was from 87 sessions) acoustic at Imagine, decided at that point that MTTC would hit the floor and went into Rumbo to put the finishing touches on the other 3 that made it onto Lies.

Raz Cue says in his book (p271 if you want to look), that they were doing lead, backup vocals for 2 songs, plus percussion and whistling at Rumbo. He specifically refers to Million and puts the timing after the Aerosmith tour.

A few things from other threads - not sure if someone has a recording of ‘Sunny Lovers Day’ from the West Arleen demo, but I had always assumed that this was just the correct title of Just Another Sunday.

You asked about stuff missing from the box set. The one that definitely exists is the Its So Easy with the clean lyrics. This got released to DJs in the UK when the single was first released. Axl recorded different lyrics in places for this and in other places it seems the vocals are edited together to replace the swearing. I’ve got a couple of copies on vinyl and a low quality version of it is on YouTube. Even though it’s known about, people seem to keep forgetting about it.

Im sure I’ve also got more officially released edits of tunes off Appetite than you’ve listed. I don’t know them off the top of my head though but can dig them out if you are interested. None of them are exciting though - I think the main Sweet Child edit is the only one of significance.

Out of interest, that reminds me that while it seems everyone knows about the two Sweet Child videos now, only some are aware there are two different versions of Jungle, basically the same but with a couple of scenes edited out. Hardly anyone seems to know however that there were also 2 different edits of Patience, they are almost identical however only very slight differences. I only ever recall seeing one on YouTube, but I have the other on VHS.

The other thing I know that was recorded for Appetite is a guy named Jeff Fenster recorded harmonica parts for Nightrain. I’ve never heard it and have no idea if a mix was ever produced, but I’m pretty confident it was recorded.

Also, I haven’t listened to the demos in a while but I’m pretty sure I have 2 Back Off Bitch demos, and I don’t recall ever having the Mystic demo so I’m not sure where the other Back off comes from. I have this on mp3 so can easily dig it out if of interest. The other unusual thing is when I originally got the Pasha demos (or at least some of them as I’m trying to remember back over 20 years now, but Sweet Child and Nighttrain demos are on this tape, plus other demos but what is also on there is the Anything Goes version similar to what is on the Hollywood Rose Roots of GNR CD. I got this tape in the early 90s so a long time before Roots came out so at the time just assumed it was an early version of the song. I’ve never listened back to compare it to Roots, so unsure if it is the same or different, but I’m pretty sure no other Rose songs are on this demo tape, so it’s all a bit odd.

2 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

This is discussion is now obsolete, because the liner notes of the boxset have the exact dates/studios listed for these sessions.  I/we didn't have that info earlier.

The january '88 Rumbo date has been around for ages, didn't start on the internet like you say, it's been mentioned in interviews over the last 30 years.

We still don't have a date/studio confirmed for 'One In A Million', 'Used To Love Her', 'Cornchucker' and 'One In A Million' [alt. take.].  And that's only the takes we know about, there might have been lots more that we don't even know about, including other takes of 'Patience' and maybe even 'Yesterdays', which like you said they were planning to record in january '88.

Well, i’ve been trying to help you because I liked what you were trying to do with getting everything down, but it seems no matter what I say you aren’t going to believe it.

I told you there were 2 sessions for Lies. Your response was that it was well documented that there was only one session and what I was saying was ‘clearly untrue’. As it turns out both those assertions you made were wrong.

So either I knew what I was talking about or I was the luckiest guesser in the world and making a guess that was flying in the face of the inaccuracies on the web.

So saying ‘ I/we didn’t know about that’, isn’t accurate. Some people did know you just chose not to believe or even consider, and instead claim something was false that was really true.

Again I was pretty clear in my post about what I knew and what I was speculating on. You aren’t making that difference, just post speculation as if it were fact, so I know where the credibility currently lies.

So the last comment I will make on Lies which you can choose to believe or disbelieve is that the 4 songs on the Niven tape were the 4 and only 4 recorded in the first session.

i don’t know enough to comment on what was or wasn’t done during the second but would guess based on all I know it was the 3 off Lies + move to the city. I doubt there was more but don’t know for sure.

my final point will be there is other stuff out there - I have a recording from the Appetite sessions that not only isn’t in the box set but no one has realised is missing from the box set. It is on the net, but hard to find....but I guess in some people’s mind because it’s not documented on certain web pages it mustn’t exist.

On 26/06/2018 at 1:38 PM, Nikki_Sixx said:

I bought Mick Wall's book 'The Most Dangerous Band In The World' in '91 when it came out, no worries there.

I don't understand why you think you have to assume that I'm basing my statement on 'everything that gets written on the internet 30 years later' ...

Find me the quotes and prove me wrong please !

So I think this thread 

is now proving that what I said about 2 sessions for Lies was accurate.

if you re read my original post, I’m pretty clear where I’m basing comments of things I’m sure of and where I’m speculating.

The reason I said ‘writer on internet nearly 30 years later’ is that is the only place I’ve ever heard of there only being one session and it occurring in Jan 88. This is one of those things in GNR world that only emerged recently and seems to be taken as gospel even though it seems someone on the net started it with no basis and then it got repeated enough times that everyone seems to think it is true. Another prime example of this is the song credits on Appetite.

If you have another source for a Jan 88 session I’d be keen to know about it. The only place somewhat credible I’ve heard this suggested and where I believe the rumour probably started was Axl mentioning at a Jan88 gig that they were going to go into the studio next week or something to record. This doesn’t mean it actually happened though.

My understanding is that the stuff on the Niven leak was the ‘87 session of which on patience was used, the other 3 on Lies is from the second session. Again, there is an interview out there with Axl somewhere where he talks about this where he says they re did it because he didn’t like his vocals but he band was great on the first go round. I don’t have the link nor the time to try and find this though, you’ll have to do some googling yourself if you want it.

7 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

No offence, but this is simply untrue.  The Niven stuff are just alt. takes from the same session.

There's no way of knowing if they ever attempted recording acoustic stuff at a different time, with Clink, but what you're saying is factually incorrect.

This is all well documented anyway.

I’m going off interviews with the band at the time (ie back in the late ‘80s). Not everything that gets written on the internet 30 years later is true.  Having  said that the Mick Wall book is easy enough to find and I would be surprised if the Axl interview I referred to is out there somewhere as I’m sure I’ve read that on the net. The Slash or Duff one I can’t recall so well, but maybe that was in Wall’s book as well.

The people that are interviewing Niven and ppl like that should also be able to verify that there were two completely different sessions, so there is definitely a way ok knowing.

4 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

GNR Lies sessions, yep, January '88.

My guess is that those Alan Niven outtakes were mixed at the time, together with the officially released tracks.  'Move To The City' was probably not mixed at the time, maybe it was something they recorded 'straight off the floor' with just a couple of mikes to test some shit out.  It was then found on the reels when researching the box set, and mixed with modern day equipment.

There were two sessions for Lies, months apart in 1988. The original one was the one that came out via Niven and the second session was the one that got released as GN’R Lies (well possibly aside from Patience which is the same as the Niven release so not sure what is going on there). Way, way back Mick Wall talked about this in one of the Kerang articles and it is also in his first book about the band. I’ve also read an interview with Axl where he said he thought his singing sucked on the first sessions but the band was great, but he insisted they go in and re-do it. Slash or Duff also did an interview about recording Lies before it came out and was talking about how you could hear picks dropping at all these other stuff that didn’t make sense listening to Lies, it was only after the Niven release came out that it made sense there were two sessions and they were talking about the first.

I have no idea which session this Move to the City comes from but I would guess the second for two reasons : Mick Wall lists the songs recorded on the first session and this wasn’t listed and also it wasn’t on the Niven release, which I’m guessing is everything recorded in the first session.

As to why it sounds different, I’m only speculating but would guess they decided early one that it wouldn’t make the release and hence didn’t do all the overdubs etc that were don’t with the other tracks and also it wasn’t mixed at the same time in the same way.

30 minutes ago, jamillos said:

This is seriously fucked, not only just by itself but especially when you consider that Guns N’ Roses fans are the most patient fuckers in the history – and yet then you realize what we have gotten material-wise in the last decade for all the patience: one album with replacement guys; one DVD with Axl’s worsening voice and with replacement guys; and one remastered record from 30 years ago.

If it wasn’t for bootlegs (which, as someone said, are free promotion for the band, no one is getting any serious cash off of it), we’d have jack shit.

Pathetic. And this is a loyal fan speaking.

 

Last decade ? You are far too kind, all the above applies to the last 25 years.

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

seriously i have come to the conclusion that axl will never do a GNR reunion because that woud totally EXPOSE him, like a million times more than he is exposed today

I’ve reached the same conclusion as well....easiest way to ensure you aren’t picked out as the weak link is to ensure there are weaker links up on stage....

2 hours ago, bikka said:

This. How on earth did Duff get to this elevated status? Just because he sucks up to everyone? Mr. Diplomat? Imo, he's spineless, just like Slash called him way back and that's why he manages to get his $

It's all to do with the $ and who controls the $. I don't think its any surprise that the 3 people who have the power to block releases are the 3 on stage and no others. Things like the music, credibility, integrity and putting the best possible line up on stage take a back seat to the almighty $ and how each of those 3 maximise it for themselves. Greed could be another way of putting it.

The flyer above is from the October 1985 show at the Stone.

There was a 1986 show as well on August 28th., with Vain, Jetboy & GNR all on the bill.

I could just buy it for $3 on iTunes, didn’t need to sign up for Apple Music, even though it still tried to make me.

The source material is the same as the version out there (ie Cathouse shows from 89 plus other scenes), however it is a different edit. Not massively different, certainly has the same feel.

There is some additional talking at the start which is an Axl comment from the show about how they are making the video for themselves rather than something MTV would want because it’s not about selling more records. Kind of ironic and a bit silly they added this IMO given this is now all about the promotion of a $1000 box set and seems to be tied in with trying to get people to sign up Apple’s streaming service. Also, makes it sounds like the video is going to be totally controversial which it isn’t.

as some mentioned previously there are also some additional scenes with Axl and 2 girls from inside a limo, these are spread out in the vid and at the end.

something else I noticed is there is a brief snippet where Duff is banging the drums alongside Steven during a Slash solo - I assume this is footage from when they are playing Rocket Queen.

From Adlers Facebook page, looks like they played SCOM in Brisbane last night. There is some video up there.

Forgot to mention in previous post that the singer mentioned meeting My Michelle at the Whiskey show. I found a pic on Instagram of Adler and Michelle at the show. Looks like Tom Zutaut and Marc Canter were also there. So a few of the ppl from the early days out to show their support which is cool.

4 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

$650 is the ballpark figure thrown around for the entire Locked N' Loaded set. The Super Deluxe Edition, which makes up a fraction of it, costs $180 as per Amazon.

SOYL will likely be the new single. It appears as so in the video, radio stations have indicated they will be airing it today, and many of its demos have been pulled from Youtube (though i've heard other demos of other songs have also been removed now).

No idea about the truck.

Really ? It’s like they suddenly realise almost everything they are saying is unreleased is actually all over the net and has been bootlegged to death for the last 30 years...

18 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

In the video, after "3 LP Sound City session n' more," it says, "25 unreleased songs from the 1986 session". My problem is that the Sound City session contained 29 tracks, so some of them will not be included. Hopefully The Plague, Cornchucker Stomp and Untitled Song in Progress, will not be among those excluded.

Yep, I noticed that too, and I think the 4 that haven’t surfaced on boots (ie the 3 above + You’re Crazy acoustic), will be the 4 missing. Basically means it’s just 25 better quality versions of what anyone with an old bootleg or the internet already has.

I was trying to think if there had been 4 already released officially, but I think it is only Shadow from those sessions which got the official release. From memory the Don’t Cry demo that got officially released was from an earlier demo.

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

This user, in conversation with Marc Canter, was putting together a recording session list. I do not know if he posts much but I talked with him a few times whilst he was doing it. Have a look at the thread,

http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/198946-demo-list-with-details/

Of uncirculated stuff he has,

Mystic: Heartbreak Hotel 
 

Sound City: Untitled song in progress, You’re Crazy acoustic, The Plague, Cornshucker Stomp. I think there is another Move to the City also.
 

Possibly the tape ran out on some of these uncirculated recordings? Possibly not?

Then there is the Mike Clink ''Shadow'' which definitely exists. Marc Canter has this to say,

Have a look at the thread. Very interesting; very nerdy haha (you'll see me mix up the ''Shadow of your Love'' demos!).

 

Aside from the Shadow mentioned above, and the Sound City demos that haven't got out there, there are only 2 other Appetite related recordings I know of that are hard/impossible to find.

There is the 'clean' version of It's So Easy which has some different vocals. This can be got on the UK DJ single and is online so if you search you will find it, but its not all over the place.

A guy named Jeff Fenster from memory also recorded harmonica to go over the top of Nightrain - I'm not sure however if a version of the song was mixed with that over the top, but its certainly never got out there anywhere to my knowledge.

Aside from this Marc Canter has a bucket load of live video and audio of course and some of that would be pretty cool (eg video of the Appetite line up playing Perfect Crime).

When the band were first thinking of working with Mike Clink, they went in and recorded Shadow of Your Love with him as a test track. This recording never made it out - so I’m assuming this is what we are hearing now. (The more common Wake Up Time To Play demo is from the Sound City demos).

I think Slash talks about its existance in his book and Marc Canter also confirmed it in Canter Banter.

Why did he leave ?

Did they work on any songs that ended up on the GNR albums ?

How aware was he of Slash/Adler and what were his thoughts when they joined ?

Did he notice much of a shift when Duff joined ? If so, in what way ?

How does he think the band and things generally would have been different if he remained a member ?

Did he go back to L A Guns and if so, what happened there ?

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

Seems like a really long winded way to get people to listen to a GNR tribute band and say they have a "GNR vibe" 

I think that's a pretty cynical response. I think the versions sound quite different and I think the difference in interpretations is interesting, and would like to know others views. I don't think either sounds the way it would have if we ever heard a version of the original band playing it, which I assume they must of at some point. But hearing the original drum line side by side with the modern take to me highlights the contrast, and to me the feel is really different.

The 10 seconds from about the 4:15 mark in the first clip sums it all up....its just not there on the second.

So I was listening to the youtube clip of Adler playing YCBM at the Roxy because well its the only live clip of Adler playing the song & I think its awesome. At the end youtube follows on with the next video and I'm listening to YCBM again, but completely different. Turns out its a show where Izzy comes out with the band which is kind of cool so I keep listening. Anyway, I couldn't believe how different the two versions were. The Adler clip reminds me more of the original Guns vibe....yet needless to say crowd is a lot smaller. I couldn't really get into the London version the same way. Made me wish they could somehow get past it all and get the OG 5 back and just make it the best band possible.....keen to hear what others think of the contrast.