Naupis

Slash definitely isn't playing as well as he did back in the glory days with GNR,

In all fairness it isn't like the songs we have heard from New GNR are exactly at that level either. Of the demos we've heard it is pretty safe to say that Axl hasn't exactly hit his peak either if you want to get the old Guns comparissons out.

No one from the old band has produced anything that rivals the best work they had as a unit, which is why these arguments are a big clusterfuck. Debating about which one has achieved the better level of mediocrity since the break-up is trivial as they have all come out worse off.

Well, there's no changing the past. Axl's brave new sound broke up my favorite band. But here we are, a decade and a half later and we still haven't heard what all the fuss was about. All they do is play the old songs. If that's all Axl wants to do, then I don't understand why he broke up the band.

The ironic thing about this "brave new sound" concept is that the sound we hear on this new album most likely will be one that is close to something the old band would have played. Axl wasted so much time that the direction he broke up the band to go has been scrapped, and he is back to a more rock sounding style now which is probably one Slash would have been OK playing. We have heard a few examples of what an industrial sounding GNR would be, and it was awful. Thankfully Axl came to his senses, it is just too bad the band had to implode to realize it.

The European tour was nothing more than a quick cash grab, so that had to go well.

I think the U.S tour on the other hand is being used to launch the band again. So I would not be surprised if there is at least one "incident" somewhere, but that will be it. Some sort of make-shit fit at a show to get people talking a bit and create some publicity, but nothing major. He can't afford a busted tour, but bought himself enough credibility with promotors on the European tour by playing nice to be able to push the bar a little without having them pull the plug on him.

I think it's very hard to say Axl is more focused on capitalist gain (profit) when he has dumped over 13 million into it and pays people to play on it.

The only reason he has pumped so much into it is because he is living off the old GNR contract they signed when they were the biggest band in the world. The advance for the record was probably tremendous, and there is not much the label can do about it as they were on the hook for the money one way or the other. At least this way they might get a chance to make some of it back.

To say Axl Rose is not capitalistic is the most absurd thing ever said on this board. I think he knew in the early 90's he wanted his own band, and in the process pulled a series of power plays to secure the name for future use. You don't think he saw the monetary value of the name back then? Of course that drove everything he did. A label was never going to give Axl Rose 13 million dollars to record his dream album, but they would give it to Guns N' Roses. Axl Rose doesn't headline major Festivals, but GNR does.

Everything he has done for 15 years now has been driven by the financial and commercial advantages the name provides. If he wasn't by commercial success or exposure he would not be operating in the manner he is today. This has nothing to do with artistic integrity, otherwise he would not have re-recorded the material multiple times the past few years to try and make it seem more current. If he didn't care, he would release what he thought was good music regardless of what was in at the time. Not to mention there are more than a few artists/people that would argue that he exactly zero artistic integrity given that he is more than willing to get up and play more than half a setlist every night that was written by an entirely different set of musicians and still pass it off as GNR.

Axl Rose is alot of things, but unaffected by money and fame is not one of them.

If you recall - AFD wasn't a big hit at all when it was first released. In fact, I think it was re-released and took almost a year before it fully caught on. Why? Because GNR wasn't a flavor-of-the-month band playing the latest popular music. It was setting a new standard and marked a shift back to rock.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. GNR releasing an unknown album in 1987 as an unknown band is a completely different ballgame than GNR releasing an album in 2006 with the current expectations associated with a GNR release. They will not be given that opportunity to have a slow burn up the charts, as the product as a whole will be viewed as a success/failure based on the initial response.

Microsoft releasing its first operating system 20 some odd years ago is not anything like them releasing a new one today. There is now an expectation that did not exist when the first one was released a virtually unknown company. People aren't going to wait a year to determine whether Vista is a success, they will make that determination after a few uses. You now have an expectation of what you think the operating system should be like, and if it doesn't meet them you are not going to have a favorable view of it and recommend others to get it.

In much the same vein the general public now has an expectation of what/how a GNR record should sound and perform based on past experience with the product, and will not be afforded the same slow burn Appetite was as an unknown product. If it doesn't impress immediately, the album is going to tank as people will think it is a failure and not give it a chance. That is why the initial buzz and need for positive press is so vital. They have the legacy of Appetite to live up to, and anything short of immediate acceptance will tank the album.

The video will most likely be very very low-key as it is not prudent for the band or label to spend a bunch of money on a video that most likely will not get alot of airtime. MTV is essentially out of the video business, and there are very few outlets that play music videos left anyway. It is not like it was in 92 when they knew MTV would play the shit out of November Rain 50 times a day. Now a days videos are a waste of money if you are outside the MTV TRL demographic like Guns is.

Agreed.

The only ones who seem to think the Jay-Z release would somehow affect GNR album sales are the young kids whose frighteningly-limited musical knowledge is based solely on MTV.

Some of you don't seem to get it. Jay-Z won't affect GNR's sales, but he will affect the amount of press coverage and publicity they get because he will finish with the Billboard #1 album, and all of the news releases will be talking about his triumphant return instead of Axls.

Instead of GNR having the #1 album in the country and being the center of attention in the music world, they will be #2 and playing second fiddle to Jay's big comeback.

How does the above scenario benefit GNR in any way?

Honestly, I don't think it would make any difference whatsoever if GNR's album is released the same week as Jay-Z's or not. They're two entirely different genres of music that target different audiences. While it would be great if some Hip Hop fans started tuning in to rock, I doubt this is the key audience the label is chasing with GNR's music. jmo.

I never said they were targeting the same people. My point was that I think a #1 album and the focus of the major music media to themselves would be a good thing. Rather than finishing behind Jay-Z on the charts and having the media talking about his triumphant comeback and #1 album when I would like to see that talk about GNR instead. They would be a foot-note to the story rather than the story. I guess some of you are OK with second fiddle though.

why would it be? jay z is huge.

Seriously. I think sometimes people need to get off the message boards and get into real world mode.

Outside of GNR fantasy land mode Jay-z is currently much more popular and relevant than GNR is in terms of main stream music. Doesn't mean that it's any better than GNR, just more popular in today's climate. It will sell more copies, so it makes sense to avoid releasing an album that same week.

What date would be better?

How about the 14th. So GNR can open up with the #1 album in the country instead of playing second fiddle to Jay-z's big comeback album he is releasing the 21st. I don't love the guy, but he is gonna move a bazillion albums and be the media darling that week. It would make absolutely no sense to release it on a week where there is an artist of equal or greater stature to compete with when the week prior to has no one of any significance releasing an album.

Anyway, I believe this may be the correct release date. It makes perfect sense, and Merck didnt deny it, when everyone knows he is quick to shoot down rumors.

November 21st never made any sense for GNR to release this album given the other dates available, so I am not surprised they would deny it.

GNR and management would love for people to think its a reunion tour. It sells more tickets, they could give 2 shis what people think once their in the arena as they have their money already.

As someone said earlier, they do everything possible to avoid promoting the fact it is only Axl left by featuring the all new line-up. The name has so much brand equity that they only use it and the logo, because it sells albums and tickets on its own. Why spoil the fun for casual fans not in the loop on what the current line-up is.

once they understand they can never out do GNR!!

Some might say that is the reason why Axl hasn't released a CD over the past 10 years.

Probably about a 2.5. I hope and think CD will be outstanding, but I still think about it as Axl's solo project. When I have gone to the 3 new GNR I have I tell people I'm going to see Axl, not GNR. So I am super excited about the album and have loved the shows I've went to, but won't believe that 1+1=3 because he says so in terms of the band name issue.

I would say the 14th of November. That would get it out before Black Friday, and also give it at least one week to finish at #1 on the charts. Jay-Z releases his big comeback album "Kingdom Come" on November 21st, and there is no way the label will release CD the same day and have it finish #2 for the week. After the time and money spent on this project this album has to debut at #1 if for no other reason than it's good publicity. The reality of 2006 is that Jay-Z will outsell and steal headlines from GNR if both released on the same day, and no one on this board wants that. Sooner is definitely better than later.

not axl, the management team. really worrying.

Axl pays the management team, so by extension he is obviously agreeing with their tactics otherwise he would have other representation by now.

Gnr management for at least the past 5 years have proven to be nothing short of awful. Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and somehow expecting a different outcome. That is them in a nut-shell.

Who thinks it is a great idea to hide a release date from the general public as if that is going to somehow promote an album is beyond me. They were quick to issue a press release after the Euro-tour that GNR played in front of 750,000 people last summer. Yet you would have never known a new album existed given that it was never referenced one time at any show. Now, it does take a Phd. in Business to know that when you have direct access to a target audience likely to consume your product, you do everything you can to promote it. Instead of capitalizing on the situation and promoting the hell out of an upcoming release date we get silence. Makes a ton of buiness sense if you ask me.

No one is diminishing Slash's contribution to this song... but it was the work of THE BAND that made it great. Without great song writers like Izzy, Slash's riff and solo would have been forgotten.

You're absolutely right. It was that magic combination of Axl/Slash/Izzy and Duff that had people talking at one point they could have been the next Zepplin or Rolling Stones. That is awful rarified air. Each member complimented the other so well, even though in retrsopect they were so different. Maybe that absence of group think is what led to so many historic songs coming out of such a small back catalog.

Slash didn't like that song

Regardless, does it take more talent to create the riff, or realize its good? Probably why they made such a good team.

The 14th of November makes the most sense in that it gets it out before Black Friday, and it avoids Jay-z the week after. There is no way they want to release it the 21st, and have Jay-z's big comeback album end up #1 on the charts. They need to make sure this is #1, at least for a week.

"FINALLY...THE WAIT IS OVER"

And they proceeded to refer to it as the Chinese Democracy WORLD Tour!

Sounds like they just rehashed that Boston radio add from 02, maybe they can even just re-use the CD world tour shirts everyone bought then.

Sound was good for every other band earlier, but that doesn't mean the GNR sound guys won't find a way to screw it up anyway.

That took a while, all of 2-3 minutes before he was complaining about his mic. Unreal how a band like GNR can't find a competent set of sound guys.

How was the sound during the other bands sets? I don't wanna endure another Rock In Rio.

Sound was good for every other band at RiR. It is GNR's sound guys that can't ever seem to get a mix right, or have a gig go off without major audio problems.

Sound was good for every other band earlier, but that doesn't mean the GNR sound guys won't find a way to screw it up anyway.

The video is a little choppy, but at least the sound quality is better that Rock in Rio

That doesn't mean the GNR sound quality will be any good. Every other band on the RIO stream sounded good that day, as usual it was only GNR that couldn't get the audio mix together. You would think given the band's stature that it wouldn't be pulling teeth to get a group of techs together who know how to effectively work the soundboard/mix.

This is a losing proposition for us either way.

If there is a release date and he is not saying anything, then the management company needs to go back and freshen up their business degrees a bit because they obviously don't know their head from a hole in the ground. They send out a press release lauding GNR for playing in front of 750,000 people this summer, well...there is 750,000 missed opportunities to freely advertise and promote the bands ultimate product. Same logic applies to this mini-tour.

The other side of the coin is there is no set release date yet, in which case we can kiss any hope of seeing this album before at least April of 07 goodbye. Again, if they rush the release before the end of the year to just get it out without the necessary promotion they have missed the opportunity of a life time because there will never be anothere situation like this to capitalize off of.

Axl's and management's decisions regarding the album thus far prove that we give them too much credit in terms of having a master plan that will give the band its greatest chance to capitalize off the situation.

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

Ding,Ding,Ding.......We have a winner.