Punk

Shuffle · January 3, 2008

Maybe this should be in my world? Not sure so I put it here

So... I'm doing a project in school with a friend about the punk movement in the US, England and Sweden, mainly the first wave, a bit about the politics/ideologies etc, the influence punk had on society (both then and what remains today). I was just wondering whether anyone here got any ideas for sources, things to include etc. Anything that might help Also if anyone on here was a part of the "movement" (or whatever) if they'd would do an interview over e-mail?

Any tips and ideas is welcome! Thanks guys...

ffrankwhite · January 3, 2008

books:

Englands Dreaming - Jon Savage (really good, great historical contextual matierial)

Please Kill Me - John Holstrom Legs McNeil

Dvds/documentries:

Punk Attitude directed by Don Letts

DOA

wow, where to begin?!?! :rofl-lol: i wanna write the motherfucker for you!! j/k!! this could be like never ending dude. theres punk in fashion, punk in art, punk in music, punk in politics, punks effect on post war popular culture, its really immeasurable i think.

Punk in popular music basically informed the entire art form, its effects are fucking immense, its not something i really think i can condense here for you, i REALLY reccomend you watch that documentry Punk Attitude cuz its a good beggining point but fuck man, how'd you cover it all, i dont even know it all, not even close. i guess the best way to tackle the subject is punk rock as this kind of birthright, the spirit of invention, the idea that you can do shit any which way you please and how important that concept is to the very fabric of the modern world, the world we live in, you cant fuckin avoid punk rock anymore, its peoples haircuts, the clothes they wear, their attitudes and outlooks on any street in the modern world, before punk rock these things didnt exist didnt happen and its more than just funky haircuts and fucked up jeans it...an idea...the idea that you can be yourself...a pretty simple human right thats frequently denied. punk rock bought in a whole new breed, it was nothing short of social revolution. i guess the best way i can describe it is the spirit of invention. its not just musically about fuckin chainsaw style guitar playing, it had an effect on hip hop on rock after it, on dance music, on electronica on...this is an impossible task for me to try and just condense like this :rofl-lol: plus i got a busted hand and typing is hard :lol:

it'd probably be best to do like a bunch of subheadings like starting off with garage bands like the standells and count 5 and then taking off to proto punk like the dolls, the stooges, suicide etc then off onto like the british and new york scenes simultaeneously, drawing parrallels and then off onto the hardcore scene of the 80s, touching on its sub-genres too then like artsy type punk PiL Gang Of Four etc (im trying to be brief) then a subheading each for fashion, culture politics to tie it all together and then, maybe, as a conclusion begin it with like Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee and the early rock n rollers and how they were mould breakers and standard shatterers and how that in its own way is punk rock too and then maybe as a final couple of lines some shit like how punk rock is the idea is that you can change things which is central to the human condition.

Edited January 3, 2008 by ffrankwhite

Shuffle · January 3, 2008

Haha that's a actually a great way of summing it

I've read Please Kill Me, it's fuckin' great... my friend is reading some other book that I've forgotten the name of, it might be Englands dreaming

I'll have to try and find that dvd... And I really need to listen to more of the music that I'm writing about I've listened to a lot but not nearly enough haha

Our teacher want us to find out which "punk scene" was most political and what the differences between the English, American and Swedish was easy task :rolleyes:

ffrankwhite · January 3, 2008

Haha that's a actually a great way of summing it
I've read Please Kill Me, it's fuckin' great... my friend is reading some other book that I've forgotten the name of, it might be Englands dreaming
I'll have to try and find that dvd... And I really need to listen to more of the music that I'm writing about I've listened to a lot but not nearly enough haha
Our teacher want us to find out which "punk scene" was most political and what the differences between the English, American and Swedish was easy task

english was more political...by far. american (initially) was more a reaction to the state of music, english more the state of their society/the world. not too up on swedish. like to be

Shuffle · January 3, 2008

english was more political...by far. american (initially) was more a reaction to the state of music, english more the state of their society/the world. not too up on swedish. like to be

Yeah, that's basically my opinion too, but he probably wants analysis of lyrics and shit I don't really know much about the swedish scene either and I'm from Sweden haha, the only band I've heard more than one song is Ebba Grön and they're the most famous, although they're not that punk

ffrankwhite · January 3, 2008

english was more political...by far. american (initially) was more a reaction to the state of music, english more the state of their society/the world. not too up on swedish. like to be
Yeah, that's basically my opinion too, but he probably wants analysis of lyrics and shit I don't really know much about the swedish scene either and I'm from Sweden haha, the only band I've heard more than one song is Ebba Grön and they're the most famous, although they're not that punk

could probably do a quick bit of that for you too if you want :xmasssanta:

Shuffle · January 3, 2008

english was more political...by far. american (initially) was more a reaction to the state of music, english more the state of their society/the world. not too up on swedish. like to be
Yeah, that's basically my opinion too, but he probably wants analysis of lyrics and shit I don't really know much about the swedish scene either and I'm from Sweden haha, the only band I've heard more than one song is Ebba Grön and they're the most famous, although they're not that punk
could probably do a quick bit of that for you too if you want :xmasssanta:

haha I'd be happy for any help I can get

metallic ko · January 3, 2008

Watch these:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ygt2csIkcHA Especially listen to what Henry Rollins says at 2:30.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=upLtBtbdUak&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yPp7nq5YWiE

ffrankwhite · January 3, 2008

english was more political...by far. american (initially) was more a reaction to the state of music, english more the state of their society/the world. not too up on swedish. like to be
Yeah, that's basically my opinion too, but he probably wants analysis of lyrics and shit I don't really know much about the swedish scene either and I'm from Sweden haha, the only band I've heard more than one song is Ebba Grön and they're the most famous, although they're not that punk
could probably do a quick bit of that for you too if you want :xmasssanta:
haha I'd be happy for any help I can get

White riot - I wanna riot

White riot - a riot of my own

White riot - I wanna riot

White riot - a riot of my own

Black man gotta lot a problems

But they don't mind throwing a brick

White people go to school

Where they teach you how to be thick

An' everybody's doing

Just what they're told to

An' nobody wants

To go to jail!

All the power's in the hands

Of people rich enough to buy it

While we walk the street

Too chicken to even try it

Everybody's doing

Just what they're told to

Nobody wants

To go to jail!

Are you taking over

or are you taking orders?

Are you going backwards

Or are you going forwards?

ok, mainstream 70s punk rock track, white riot the clash is totally political, its basically about the race related riots in the 70s by black people as a form of protest and how white people should do the same, as if to say everyone should

"Black man gotta lot a problems

But they don't mind throwing a brick

White people go to school

Where they teach you how to be thick"

"Are you taking over

or are you taking orders?

Are you going backwards

Or are you going forwards?"

the latter paragraph is incitement, political sloganeering basically.

"All the power's in the hands

Of people rich enough to buy it"

that ones straight forward enough. compared to saaayyy, OK, Sheena Is A Punk Rocker by The Ramones

Well the kids are all hopped up and ready to go

They're ready to go now

They've got their surfboards

And they're going to the discotheque a go go

But she just couldn't stay

She had to break away

Well New York City really has it all

Oh yeah, oh yeah

Sheena is a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker now

Sheena is a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker now

She's a punk punk, a punk rocker

Punk punk, a punk rocker

Well the kids are all hopped up and ready to go

They're ready to go now

They've got their surfboards

And they're going to the discotheque a go go

But she just couldn't stay

She had to break away

Well New York City really has it all

Oh yeah, oh yeah

Sheena is a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker now

Sheena is a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker now

She's a punk punk, a punk rocker

Punk punk, a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker now

Sheena is a punk rocker

Sheena is a punk rocker now [x2]

where as this is just a celebratory little ditty or comes across so when you take into account the band and the kinda songs they make. HOWEVER if you feel like fucking with your teachers mind a little you could say that this is political too because its about liberty and being yourself, going your own way and in its own way thats a statement, political in a sense? definitely yes. a comment on society? definitely yes, think about it, "got their surfboards and they're going to the discotheque a-go-go" and Sheena, the individual, not of the herd goes her own way.

to conclude you could say that White Riot is more conciously and overtly political whereas Sheena only has political undertones and/or possibly political interpretations which backs up your overall theory of the british end being more political.

pretty basic but works

Shuffle · January 3, 2008

metallic_ko: thanks for the vids I knew most of the stuff in them but it was cool with the interviews and to put some images to the facts

ffrankwhite: thanks man! that's great appreciate it

Powerage5 · January 3, 2008

Another DVD that could help that no one's mentioned: American Hardcore. It focuses on the US punk movement from the late 70's to late 80's.

wasted · January 4, 2008

But is being political make you a punk?

Never really been able to define punk.

I mean the origin of the word is the little guy in prison who got fucked. He was the punk. So its like the victim. But the victim fights back?

Punk I thought was maybe about non-conformity but punk now everyone has green hair and bang out the same political slogans?

steve-o · January 4, 2008

SLC Punk

Edited January 4, 2008 by steve-o

duff_mckagan21 · January 4, 2008

Must mention The Stooges. Must.

duff21

metallic ko · January 4, 2008

metallic_ko: thanks for the vids I knew most of the stuff in them but it was cool with the interviews and to put some images to the facts

Welcome!

DopeSickGirl · January 4, 2008

*clears throat*

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Punk, however briefly, became a phonomenon throughout the world. With a disenchanted youth seeing it as an escape and banner to stand united undeerneath; distinctive styles or dressing, anti-authoritarian attitudes and an independant spirit.

In the early 1980s the punk movement had evolved into the harder, faster subgenres of punk: hardcore and Oi! these two new waves of punk grew their roots firmly into local music scene's and shunned the mainstream popularity that had thrust itself upon the first wave of punk rock.

Noteworth BRITISH punk bands(first wave):

-The Sex Pistols (ofc!)

-The Damned

-The Clash

-Stiff Little Fingers

-The Buzzcocks

-Generation X

-Siouxsie & the Banshees

-The Slits (I thought Frankie might have mentioned these but noo! )

-The Undertones

-The Vibrators

-Middle Finger Salute

-X-Ray Specs

Noteable AMERICAN punk bands(first wave):

-The Ramones

-New York Dolls

-Dead Boys

-Iggy Pop

-The Stooges

-Suicide Commandos

-X

-DOA

-The Germs

-Bad Brains

(I'm sure I've missed loads of brilliant bands of both lists, but fuck off; its midday and I have a hangover!)

Subgenre's:

-New Wave (XTC, The Jam, Blondie, etc) - more polished than the traditional punk rock.

-Post-Punk (Joy Division, PiL, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, etc) - darker sounding than the original punk, major influence on the emergance of both grunge and emo.

-Hardcore (Minor Threat, Circle Jerks, Suicidal Tendancies, etc) - faster, harder and louder subgenre of punk; more serious and politically charged.

-Oi! (The Business, Angelic Upstarts, The Exploited, etc) - either anarchistic or fascist, varied political themes; described of the punk mythology achieved as, unlike in many of the first wave punk bands, the people in these bands didn't have a pot to piss in.

-Anarcho-Punk (Crass, Conflict, Discharge, etc) - as the name suggests concerned with extreme left wing politics and creating a peaceful anarchistoc utopian society.

-Pop-Punk (Blink 182, Green Day, Screeching Weasel) - meh, work it out.

The punk movement also paved the way for many other genre's such as alternative rock, grunge, and (much as it pains me to admit this) emo. Through these genre's (most notably grunge) there was a punk revival of sorts throughout the 90's, beginning with the emergance of bands such as Green Day, Bad Religian, NoFX and RANCID (hahaaa, sorry frank, but tiz true ) however, by many of the 'old school' punks this revival is frowned upon as mainstream and 'sold out' though one cuold argue just because somethings popular doesn't mean they sold out (Green Day, for example) punk on its second time around was much more commercially successful.

We then have some merged genre's:

-Ska Punk - Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Reel Big Fish, Less Than Jake

-Celtic Punk - The Pogues, Dropkick Murphys, Flogging Molly

Special mentions:

RANCID.

CBGB.

..I could continue but my brain won't work.

Thank you and goodnight, see ya in the pit!

(special prize for whoever finds out where 'see you in the pit' is from )

xDSGx

___________________________________________

Punk ain't dead; it just smells that way.

Edited January 4, 2008 by DopeSickGirl

ffrankwhite · January 4, 2008

*clears throat*
Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.
Punk, however briefly, became a phonomenon throughout the world. With a disenchanted youth seeing it as an escape and banner to stand united undeerneath; distinctive styles or dressing, anti-authoritarian attitudes and an independant spirit.
In the early 1980s the punk movement had evolved into the harder, faster subgenres of punk: hardcore and Oi! these two new waves of punk grew their roots firmly into local music scene's and shunned the mainstream popularity that had thrust itself upon the first wave of punk rock.
Noteworth BRITISH punk bands(first wave):
-The Sex Pistols (ofc!)
-The Damned
-The Clash
-Stiff Little Fingers
-The Buzzcocks
-Generation X
-Siouxsie & the Banshees
-The Slits (I thought Frankie might have mentioned these but noo! )
-The Undertones
-The Vibrators
-Middle Finger Salute
-X-Ray Specs
Noteable AMERICAN punk bands(first wave):
-The Ramones
-New York Dolls
-Dead Boys
-Iggy Pop
-The Stooges
-Suicide Commandos
-X
-DOA
-The Germs
-Bad Brains
(I'm sure I've missed loads of brilliant bands of both lists, but fuck off; its midday and I have a hangover!)
Subgenre's:
-New Wave (XTC, The Jam, Blondie, etc) - more polished than the traditional punk rock.
-Post-Punk (Joy Division, PiL, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, etc) - darker sounding than the original punk, major influence on the emergance of both grunge and emo.
-Hardcore (Minor Threat, Circle Jerks, Suicidal Tendancies, etc) - faster, harder and louder subgenre of punk; more serious and politically charged.
-Oi! (The Business, Angelic Upstarts, The Exploited, etc) - either anarchistic or fascist, varied political themes; described of the punk mythology achieved as, unlike in many of the first wave punk bands, the people in these bands didn't have a pot to piss in.
-Anarcho-Punk (Crass, Conflict, Discharge, etc) - as the name suggests concerned with extreme left wing politics and creating a peaceful anarchistoc utopian society.
-Pop-Punk (Blink 182, Green Day, Screeching Weasel) - meh, work it out.
The punk movement also paved the way for many other genre's such as alternative rock, grunge, and (much as it pains me to admit this) emo. Through these genre's (most notably grunge) there was a punk revival of sorts throughout the 90's, beginning with the emergance of bands such as Green Day, Bad Religian, NoFX and RANCID (hahaaa, sorry frank, but tiz true ) however, by many of the 'old school' punks this revival is frowned upon as mainstream and 'sold out' though one cuold argue just because somethings popular doesn't mean they sold out (Green Day, for example) punk on its second time around was much more commercially successful.
We then have some merged genre's:
-Ska Punk - Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Reel Big Fish, Less Than Jake
-Celtic Punk - The Pogues, Dropkick Murphys, Flogging Molly
Special mentions:
RANCID.
CBGB.
..I could continue but my brain won't work.
Thank you and goodnight, see ya in the pit!
(special prize for whoever finds out where 'see you in the pit' is from )
xDSGx
___________________________________________
Punk ain't dead; it just smells that way.

anarchy 6?

DopeSickGirl · January 4, 2008

Nope, try again

..you won't like the answer.

ffrankwhite · January 4, 2008

Nope, try again
..you won't like the answer.

rancid??? :vomit: LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!

DopeSickGirl · January 4, 2008

Ha!

Yeshhh..

..but they ain't laaame.

You're lame

ffrankwhite · January 4, 2008

Ha!
Yeshhh..
..but they ain't laaame.
You're lame

ya mommas lame :rofl-lol: (this gets maturer by the minute :lol: )

DopeSickGirl · January 4, 2008

yeaah well

yo momma's lame too

ffrankwhite · January 4, 2008

yeaah well
yo momma's lame too

well your dads lame!! :lol:

DopeSickGirl · January 4, 2008

yeaah well
yo momma's lame too
well your dads lame!!

yeah well get yo ass on msn, then we'll find out who's lame

ffrankwhite · January 4, 2008

yeaah well
yo momma's lame too
well your dads lame!!
yeah well get yo ass on msn, then we'll find out who's lame

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh :lol: SCURREEEHHH!!! :rofl-lol:

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