Understanding Tupac.

[Guest Metatron]

I've noticed many of you here don't understand tupac, and they don't understand hiphop. Well, I'll try to explain it to you through their own words. So maybe, you could finally understand why the music sounds the way it does. Tupac was a modern day poet, a philosopher, and more then anything else, more people should of listened to what he had to say. Growing up in poverty in 3 American Cities (New York City, Baltimore, Marin City) and his mother being both a crackhead and a black panther, he was destined to have something to say. Obviously, his ideologies probably conflict with most of the views on here, growing up middle class makes you have a certain view of the world, and choosing to ignore the rest of the world plays a major part in it. This is a guide to understanding Tupac and hip hop.

Let me start us off this video:

Tupac: We Hungry, Please let us in.

It's a great video to start off with, it shows a very quick evolution of black music, and it shows the mindset of young black america, and why it's such a violent aggressive community.

In this video, Tupac explains to us what Thug Life really means:

Tupac was a little ruthless and disrespectful in that last video, spitting at camera's and the such, but then he went off to jail, and came out a very different person. He also talks about the celebrity's that supported him. Here's tupac talking about Jail:

Tupac: "Jello is so Wholesome"

I'm going to now leave you with a few quotes:

"I am societies child, this is how they made me, and now I'm sayin what's on my mind and they dont want that. This is what you made me America."

"Let me say for the record, I am not a gangster and never have been. Im not the thief who grabs your purse. Im not the guy who jacks your car. Im not down with the people who steal and hurt others. Im just a brother who fight back."

"It always happens, all the n*ggaz that change the world die, they dont get to die like regular people, they die violently."

"I didn't introduce thug life to America. Thug life is America. I don't get why the whole world is fearing me. I am scared, but so are they. It's like I am having a panic attack cause I have 15,000 people wanting to do what I want, listing to everthing I say."

"I feel like role models today are not meant to be put on a pedestal. But more like angels with broken wings"

"And the raps that I'm rappin to my community shouldn't be filled with rage? They shouldn't be filled with same attrocities that they gave me? The media they don't talk about it, so in my raps I have to talk about it, and it seems foreign because there's no one else talking about it."

"If we really are saying that rap is an art form, then we got to be more responsible for our lyrics. If you see everybody dying because of what you are saying, it dont matter that you didnt make them die, it just matters that you didnt save them."

“During your life, never stop dreaming. No one can take away your dreams”

And if your interested in learning more, I'd suggest picking up "Tupac: Resurrection" It's up on youtube, and you can also pick up his book of poetry.

I hope this makes some of you understand who tupac was.

[Budweiser]

And you, a fat pothead suburbanite thinks you "understand" Tupac? If you want to understand Tupac, take a stroll through a federal prison and talk to those who are a part of his demographic. If he weren't dead, I bet you could have been able to find him there anyway.

[Guest Metatron]

And you, a fat pothead suburbanite thinks you "understand" Tupac? If you want to understand Tupac, take a stroll through a federal prison and talk to those who are a part of his demographic. If he weren't dead, I bet you could have been able to find him there anyway.

It's a good point, however, I've visited those places, and in a couple of days there, it changed who I was, and what I thought. Now imagine a lifetime, imagine if what I saw over those couple of days is the only reality that exists to you? Do you have any clue how absolutely hopeless these people feel? I mean, no one wants to help you, because your a "criminal". And even if your not, because this is where your from, your still tagged as a criminal. I mean, at that point, what else are you supposed to do?

Tupac took that hopelessness, and turned it into creativity, basically, he said "This ends now, No one will tell anyone else about the way it is, well I got a voice, I'm going to tell it the way it is, maybe people will listen." Sadly enough, people like you, still aren't listening.

So here, take your own advice, go and visit those places, and tell me how you feel afterwards.

For the record, perhaps I should mention, I along with almost everyone else hated hip hop. It took me 3 different trips to make me understand: The first being a trip to Peru, where I did some activist work building a school. The situation in Peru is a little different, but I felt that hopelessness. The second being a trip to Skid Row in LA (Very recently) and I mean, to see people, literally living in abandoned buildings, and on main streets was an absolute culture shock. This is when I began really listening to tupac. My 3rd trip was just spending a couple of days in a jail with a production team to shoot something, They didn't let us get too close to the inmates, however, we did get to speak to some of them, and I mean, again, a culture shock.

I spoke with a guy who was serving a double life sentence for several homicides and a couple of rape convictions, and what really boggled my mind was he was human. I guess in my head, all these people were just sick, and not human. But this guy, he breathed, thought, laughed, cried, just like me. That man single handedly changed who I am. This happened almost 6 months ago, and I still haven't recovered from that shock.

So before you dismiss me as an overweight pothead, perhaps you should know where I'm coming from as well. Budsy, you've always been one of my favourite posters on this board, and still continue to be. I understand why people have such hostility towards me, cause to put it bluntly, I was fucking arrogant. I mean, I thought I had it all figured out, I had a job with gave me the money, and the girls were waiting in line around the corner. I had the power, and it got to my head. Thankfully, those 3 trips grounded me again, and I'm back on earth with everyone else.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Metatron

[Budweiser]

And you, a fat pothead suburbanite thinks you "understand" Tupac? If you want to understand Tupac, take a stroll through a federal prison and talk to those who are a part of his demographic. If he weren't dead, I bet you could have been able to find him there anyway.

It's a good point, however, I've visited those places, and in a couple of days there, it changed who I was, and what I thought. Now imagine a lifetime, imagine if what I saw over those couple of days is the only reality that exists to you? Do you have any clue how absolutely hopeless these people feel? I mean, no one wants to help you, because your a "criminal". And even if your not, because this is where your from, your still tagged as a criminal. I mean, at that point, what else are you supposed to do?

Tupac took that hopelessness, and turned it into creativity, basically, he said "This ends now, No one will tell anyone else about the way it is, well I got a voice, I'm going to tell it the way it is, maybe people will listen." Sadly enough, people like you, still aren't listening.

So here, take your own advice, go and visit those places, and tell me how you feel afterwards.

For the record, perhaps I should mention, I along with almost everyone else hated hip hop. It took me 3 different trips to make me understand: The first being a trip to Peru, where I did some activist work building a school. The situation in Peru is a little different, but I felt that hopelessness. The second being a trip to Skid Row in LA (Very recently) and I mean, to see people, literally living in abandoned buildings, and on main streets was an absolute culture shock. This is when I began really listening to tupac. My 3rd trip was just spending a couple of days in a jail with a production team to shoot something, They didn't let us get too close to the inmates, however, we did get to speak to some of them, and I mean, again, a culture shock.

I spoke with a guy who was serving a double life sentence for several homicides and a couple of rape convictions, and what really boggled my mind was he was human. I guess in my head, all these people were just sick, and not human. But this guy, he breathed, thought, laughed, cried, just like me. That man single handedly changed who I am. This happened almost 6 months ago, and I still haven't recovered from that shock.

So before you dismiss me as an overweight pothead, perhaps you should know where I'm coming from as well.

I don't need to take my own advice. I lived it. I grew up in a run down urban "suburb" where crime is more than prevalent. Kasinova King is familiar with the place I'm talking about. That also being said, I've spent considerable amount of time as a kid and now as an "adult" volunteering in Northeast Philadelphia - And I know all too well the bullshit that plagues the inner city.

I've done extensive research on the black community in regard to education in this country and have spent over one hundred hours doing observations in inner-city schools in Philadelphia. Furthermore, as a linguist I have read tons of books about, at the very least, the linguistic distinction between white and black America (Standard English vs. Black English).

I have also been to places around the world that would make Northeast Philadelphia look like a fucking 5 star Hilton resort. One place which comes to mind was a town in Peru. Me simply being in the market warranted two (sometimes more) uniformed police officers to shadow my every move. They were not requested, but they did so because violent crime was practically inevitable.

My point: You don't need to "understand" his upbringing to realize he's a bad role model and was following a self-destructive path. If anyone is surprised that he ended up dead, raise you hand. If you would be surprised to know he would be in prison if he were still alive, raise you hand.

My hands aren't up yet...

[Guest Metatron]

You've been to peru as well? where in Peru?

I don't look at tupac as a role model. I think we should listen to what he's saying though, because he is bringing the pain and anguish we have both seen into the limelight, he tried to change it. For that, he is worth remembering.

I don't think anyone expected tupac to live very long, not even himself, I mean, he wrote " In the Event Of My Demise" Where he clearly states that he knows the possibility of him dying, and he's come to terms with it.

Really, what I want people to understand is why his music sounds the way it does, why rap and hip hop exists, and why it's so brutal. I also want them to understand there is a message in this music, and it's not all bitches, ho's, and drugs, even though it is an element of it.

I think you can understand that I'm not trying to make anyone idolize him, but rather just understand where he's coming from.

[Budweiser]

You've been to peru as well? where in Peru?

I don't look at tupac as a role model. I think we should listen to what he's saying though, because he is bringing the pain and anguish we have both seen into the limelight, he tried to change it. For that, he is worth remembering.

I don't think anyone expected tupac to live very long, not even himself, I mean, he wrote " In the Event Of My Demise" Where he clearly states that he knows the possibility of him dying, and he's come to terms with it.

Really, what I want people to understand is why his music sounds the way it does, why rap and hip hop exists, and why it's so brutal. I also want them to understand there is a message in this music, and it's not all bitches, ho's, and drugs, even though it is an element of it.

I think you can understand that I'm not trying to make anyone idolize him, but rather just understand where he's coming from.

He's perpetuating it more than he's highlighting it, IMO.

And you're right that I understand that you're not advocating his idolization. However, too people do anyway. Obviously, the members here aren't the ones were talking about, but they exist and it's dangerous to not only themselves but to the society at large, IMO.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Budweiser

[Guest Metatron]

You've been to peru as well? where in Peru?

I don't look at tupac as a role model. I think we should listen to what he's saying though, because he is bringing the pain and anguish we have both seen into the limelight, he tried to change it. For that, he is worth remembering.

I don't think anyone expected tupac to live very long, not even himself, I mean, he wrote " In the Event Of My Demise" Where he clearly states that he knows the possibility of him dying, and he's come to terms with it.

Really, what I want people to understand is why his music sounds the way it does, why rap and hip hop exists, and why it's so brutal. I also want them to understand there is a message in this music, and it's not all bitches, ho's, and drugs, even though it is an element of it.

I think you can understand that I'm not trying to make anyone idolize him, but rather just understand where he's coming from.

He's perpetuating it more than he's highlighting it, IMO.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think it's his fault that people are glamorizing it as opposed to understanding it, cause that wasn't his intention as is clear in those videos I posted.

[Budweiser]

You've been to peru as well? where in Peru?

I don't look at tupac as a role model. I think we should listen to what he's saying though, because he is bringing the pain and anguish we have both seen into the limelight, he tried to change it. For that, he is worth remembering.

I don't think anyone expected tupac to live very long, not even himself, I mean, he wrote " In the Event Of My Demise" Where he clearly states that he knows the possibility of him dying, and he's come to terms with it.

Really, what I want people to understand is why his music sounds the way it does, why rap and hip hop exists, and why it's so brutal. I also want them to understand there is a message in this music, and it's not all bitches, ho's, and drugs, even though it is an element of it.

I think you can understand that I'm not trying to make anyone idolize him, but rather just understand where he's coming from.

He's perpetuating it more than he's highlighting it, IMO.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think it's his fault that people are glamorizing it as opposed to understanding it, cause that wasn't his intention as is clear in those videos I posted.

QFT

You've been to peru as well? where in Peru?

The "Belen Slums", as they are called, right in Iquitos, Peru:

Edited May 7, 2009 by Budweiser

[Guest Metatron]

Alright, I was near Cusco while in peru.

[Budweiser]

Yea I was there as well. I spent a month traveling the country doing research on their educational system. Spent a week in Lima, a week in Iquitos (spent a few nights in the jungle since Iquitos sits right on the Amazon river), another week in Chiclayo and the surrounding area, and finally a week in Cusco and much of the Valle Sagrado. And it was alllll payed for by the US Government! Thanks Mr. Fulbright!

Now back on topic!

[dirtylenny]

I don't think its really possible to understand any human being within the framework of a thread on a forum. I don't think human beings are meant to be understood in a wholesale 360 degrees sense, we just don't work like that.

Moreover, i don't think there is such thing as a good role model. Sure on face value if you pick and choose facets of a person you can make a good role model out of anyone but if you look with any kind of sober straight faced scrutiny everybody has less than admirable aspects to them.

I think its fantastical and unrealistic to expect any human being to be a role model in that sense, even the most wholesome of people, life just isn't like that.

Tupac was neither the prophet that Jacks prodding at or the pariah that Bud seems to be saying. He was a person. Thats all, just a person. He did good shit, he did bad shit like all of his, take em for what they're worth, thats what i say.

And Jack, im Pac's biggest fuckin fan on this earth but come on man, his poetry was fuckin poor I know he was 15 when he wrote (and based on that i think its unfair that it was published, or at least a little unfair because you leave yourself open to the risk of having people think that its meant to be some sort of representation of his talents as opposed to a stage, a gestation stage almost, very early on in his writing....career?) that shit but its ummm...not very good? Its sweet, it shows a fair enough understanding of rhyme and meter etc but...Its problem i think is that it falls so readily into a certain stereotype that people take it as that and that only and don't...care to look closer and see that there's really some heartfelt shit and some quite poigniant shit in there...especially coming from a 15 year old kid.

[december pain]

All I know is he is still alive

I'm serious too

[Tater Totts]

A new pic of him surfaced on the net about at a club recently

[dirtylenny]

A new pic of him surfaced on the net about at a club recently

if only we could see a close up of his Oyster Perpetual we could clock the date and we'd know for sure

[Guest floyd the barber]

I never met the man so I have nothing against his personality. I just don't like his music; I never got into rap. I don't think giving me a lesson on his life will change my opinion either.

[dirtylenny]

I never met the man so I have nothing against his personality. I just don't like his music; I never got into rap. I don't think giving me a lesson on his life will change my opinion either.

Maybe not on his music but it might make you appreciate the man to some point? I think the OP is (God bless him) suffering from that fan thing where...OK, when you dig someone you see shit in them that you want others to see...for instance:

I think Bob Dylan is a fucking genius, a poet, beyond legend...to my friends he's a croaky old man that sings about shit they'd rather screw cactuses than listen to cuz he's boring to them.

Some fans on this website think Axl Rose is a musical genius of historically significant talents that are gonna resonate long after he's dead whilst others think he's a uptight jumped up ginger prick with an attitude problem thats scared to let go of the fact that he's washed up and is protecting a myth that is fast fading, the king don't got no clothes type scenario (i'm not one of them btw)

Some people see Tupac as the prophetic poetic John Lennon of our generation other people see him as a big mouthed black dude that got what was comin' to him. Or (and this ones the most painful) just a boring atypical stereotype of a man that died for something as ridiculous as entertainment.

[oxocubeingravy]

Tupac deserves all the credit he gets