How about FULL ALBUMS in concert?

[Mr. Oral Sex]

Youre providing absolutely NO evidence to your argument. You just mentioned a song GnR plays live (which Axl acquired the rights to do YEARS AGO and doesnt have to pay every time he goes on to play it). If you actually believe what youre saying to be fact, then I apologize because you are either uneducated on the matter or you are misinformed, either way - YOU need to do your research on the subject before making these nonsense claims. I see it every fuckin day out of you.

Holy fuckin hell,you are dense,Son. Tiny fucking BARS get sued by ASCAP/BMI when cover bands play songs that the bars don't have the rights for. You are on dope,if you think that artists aren't going to be paid when their songs are played live nightly for 20,000 people. It doesn't matter what the lawsuits were because Slash,Duff and Izzy didn't sign over their rights to songs that they wrote.

Why exactly would a bar be sued for a certain group of individuals' choice to play a certain song exactly?

Right after that claim, you make ANOTHER unfounded claim about ex-GnR business. You sure are smooth sir, no one can see through your agenda, youre slicker than ice.

[springclean]

the setlists were getting predictable and boring in my opinion.

+ 1

[Mr. Oral Sex]

Someone here is being a dick...

Aww,and here I thought we were friends.

Youre providing absolutely NO evidence to your argument. You just mentioned a song GnR plays live (which Axl acquired the rights to do YEARS AGO and doesnt have to pay every time he goes on to play it). If you actually believe what youre saying to be fact, then I apologize because you are either uneducated on the matter or you are misinformed, either way - YOU need to do your research on the subject before making these nonsense claims. I see it every fuckin day out of you.

Holy fuckin hell,you are dense,Son. Tiny fucking BARS get sued by ASCAP/BMI when cover bands play songs that the bars don't have the rights for. You are on dope,if you think that artists aren't going to be paid when their songs are played live nightly for 20,000 people. It doesn't matter what the lawsuits were because Slash,Duff and Izzy didn't sign over their rights to songs that they wrote.

Why exactly would a bar be sued for a certain group of individuals' choice to play a certain song exactly?

Right after that claim, you make ANOTHER unfounded claim about ex-GnR business. You sure are smooth sir, no one can see through your agenda, youre slicker than ice.

So basically, two smaller music venues in the Twin Cities are now banning bands from doing cover songs...I guess they have been warned by ASCAP that unless they pay the $3000 a year fee (which these particular places can't afford) that no band can do covers there or they will get fined.

I guess ASCAP says they have spies that go out to venues and check for violations.

Then, some friends of mine who are on tour (who actually do a fair amount of covers as part of their set), have been told by TWO places in other cities in the midwest have warned them not to play cover

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=70247

See post below mine...

(But this isnt the topic in which I called you into question on... it was pertaining to Guns N Roses, not some random garage band playing a bar)

Edited February 20, 2010 by Mr. Oral Sex

[gnr-dave]

Someone here is being a dick...

Aww,and here I thought we were friends.

Youre providing absolutely NO evidence to your argument. You just mentioned a song GnR plays live (which Axl acquired the rights to do YEARS AGO and doesnt have to pay every time he goes on to play it). If you actually believe what youre saying to be fact, then I apologize because you are either uneducated on the matter or you are misinformed, either way - YOU need to do your research on the subject before making these nonsense claims. I see it every fuckin day out of you.

Holy fuckin hell,you are dense,Son. Tiny fucking BARS get sued by ASCAP/BMI when cover bands play songs that the bars don't have the rights for. You are on dope,if you think that artists aren't going to be paid when their songs are played live nightly for 20,000 people. It doesn't matter what the lawsuits were because Slash,Duff and Izzy didn't sign over their rights to songs that they wrote.

Why exactly would a bar be sued for a certain group of individuals' choice to play a certain song exactly?

Right after that claim, you make ANOTHER unfounded claim about ex-GnR business. You sure are smooth sir, no one can see through your agenda, youre slicker than ice.

So basically, two smaller music venues in the Twin Cities are now banning bands from doing cover songs...I guess they have been warned by ASCAP that unless they pay the $3000 a year fee (which these particular places can't afford) that no band can do covers there or they will get fined.

I guess ASCAP says they have spies that go out to venues and check for violations.

Then, some friends of mine who are on tour (who actually do a fair amount of covers as part of their set), have been told by TWO places in other cities in the midwest have warned them not to play cover

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=70247

According to this article http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090519/1127454934.shtml Youtube has been ordered to pay ASCAP for streaming of their songs (people playing and posting cover songs on youtube)

Edited February 20, 2010 by gnr-dave

[ManetsBR]

No. I'm not going to the concert to see only Appetite or only spaguetti (specially this!!!)

[gnr-dave]

xGNRxSTARx I guess you are right it makes sense, I just think its stupid to do so if the songs are not being broadcast or sold for money.

What are they going to sue next high schools for bands playing cover songs? LOL

[RJ88]

its rediculous that AXL refuses to play anything off UYI except 2 dumb covers. These are great albums with great songs. GET A CLUE AXL, and give the fans what we want. HOW HARD OF A CONCEPT IS THAT???

In before a GNR-educator™ tells you that NR and YCBM are not covers.

Last I heard it's a publishing rights thing these two songs belong to the AFD era rights so he can play them plus the covers.

VR didn't play any UYI material either, did they?

Well,why couldn't he play Breakdown and Coma if he is credited as sole writer? I know that Slash,Duff,Izzy,etc. get $ when songs they wrote are performed in concert by GNR.

thats not true

[Orsys]

For the record, at the age I listened to Appetite for Destruction, Lies, Use Your Illusions I and II - I was probably of similar age to you when you had your initial GnR experience. Im sure most fans were around the same age (being 14-17). Just because I was born in a different year doesnt break my credibility down more than the next fan.

That's how the music BIZ works, Son. Of course they get royalties for live performances of their material.

You're in the BIZ, son ??

Hes obviously far from it. I see him make false statements, assumptions (and attempt to pass them off as God-sent fact) and give blanket statements out like candy. Half the time the guy is trolling, its too hard to take him seriously to give his posts any credibility in the first place. Im not sure why Ive allowed myself to be baited in to this.

I rest my case after seeing your bday on your profile. This Mr.Oral Sex cat was barely born when AFD was taking over the charts,

Damn Im offended, Ive never seen the age card thrown around on these boards in place of a substantial defense. You make statements and claims that your ass cant cash, friend.

You do the research. Bands get PAID when their material is performed live by other artists. Slash,Izzy,Duff,etc, get paid for these performances when Axl plays material they wrote. Just as Axl would be paid when VR played old GNR songs live,

I dont need to do the research, if I did it would only be to post a credible source to throw your claims out the window. In any case - seeing as we do not know the details of all the lawsuits which have taken place regarding Guns N' Roses and their catalogue (between Axl and Old Co.), we dont know any of the special circumstances that might pertain to the playing of their material live or even the recording of said material. Seeing as the material would be essentially co-owned by the ex-members and Axl - he's free to play it without paying them anyway.

It does vary by circumstance though. Stop talking out of your ass, some people actually buy into this shit without thinking anything further of it.

I thought anyone can play the music and not have to pay a royalty, but you can't record it without permission and then you have to pay royalties on sales. Could be wrong, but a band I know covers a lot of music from different bands and has never gotten permission nor paid the bands or record companies to just play the songs.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Orsys

[Chris 55]

Well,why couldn't he play Breakdown and Coma if he is credited as sole writer? I know that Slash,Duff,Izzy,etc. get $ when songs they wrote are performed in concert by GNR.

Nah, they can play whatever they want live. Seems that they just don't want to. Or figure that those songs won't have a great crowd reaction/fit in with the set list so they're omitted

[Monty]

Mechanical Royalties

For: Sales of any sound recording, whether on an album or a single.

Rate: 9.1 cents per copy for any song under five minutes in length.

Says Who?: Library of Congress. The rate is adjusted periodically.

Performance Royalties

For: Public performance of the song, on radio, TV, or in a restaurant or elevator.

Rates: Vary, depending on amount, length, and type of use. Network TV beats an elevator.

Says Who?: Negotiated between the performing rights organizations (ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC) and those using music in a public venue.

Synchronization Royalties

For: Use of a song, synchronized to a moving image. That means movies, TV, advertising, or computer games.

Rates: Range from gratis to the high six figures.

Says Who?: Negotiated between publishers and those licensing music.

Other Income

For: Special uses like toys, promotional campaigns, karaoke, or other products.

Rates: Vary. Could be a flat fee, or an ongoing royalty tied to product sales.

Says Who?: Negotiated between publishers and those licensing the songs

If your song is covered by another artist who doesn’t record, but performs in concerts and nightclubs then a Performance Royalty is paid.

Found this from my time with Berklee. Not sure how useful people will find it. I haven't read any legal documents related to how GNR's money is now distributed...

Also, age has no bearing on whether someone has more knowledge of a band or whether someone has more claim to be a fan than someone else. Those who use it as an argument are clutching at straws

ON TOPIC: I'm not fussed they don't play Riad live, I don't think playing CD live in its entirety, in one go, would go over well. These are 'new' songs, they need to be placed amongst established fan favourites to keep casual fans interested at the gig. They may be able to pull it off with AFD but their focus should be on pushing CD material. At the end of the day, that's why they are touring

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

its rediculous that AXL refuses to play anything off UYI except 2 dumb covers. These are great albums with great songs. GET A CLUE AXL, and give the fans what we want. HOW HARD OF A CONCEPT IS THAT???

In before a GNR-educator tells you that NR and YCBM are not covers.

Last I heard it's a publishing rights thing these two songs belong to the AFD era rights so he can play them plus the covers.

VR didn't play any UYI material either, did they?

Well,why couldn't he play Breakdown and Coma if he is credited as sole writer? I know that Slash,Duff,Izzy,etc. get $ when songs they wrote are performed in concert by GNR.

Unfounded claims too, also something we need more of around here. Who told you this?

That's how the music BIZ works, Son. Of course they get royalties for live performances of their material.

Okay, so when Jimi Hendrix performed All Along the Watch Tower live, royalties from those performances went to Bob Dylan?

What about when Ron performs the Pink Panther theme? Do the authors get royalties from that?

Also don't bother commenting on the first one because you were in diapers when Hendrix was ripping America a new one.

[axl_on_drums]

I agree with the lack of UYI songs in the concerts, but then again I want AFD, Lies, UYI and CD all jam packed into one show, so I got no vote.

But you just gotta look at some of the songs on UYI's and go how the hell are they not gettin played.

[Rock_And_Roll_Over]

I agree with the lack of UYI songs in the concerts, but then again I want AFD, Lies, UYI and CD all jam packed into one show, so I got no vote.

But you just gotta look at some of the songs on UYI's and go how the hell are they not gettin played.

I agree. There are kickass songs off each record, to just play one would be a bad decision in my opinion. Come on - if you played just "Appetite" then you'd miss some UYI hits and the new material, if you played just the UYI albums you'd miss the AFD hits and the new material, and if you played just CD then you'd miss out on most of the hits and old favorites.

They really need to add more Use Your Illusion material though.

[dalsh327]

From what I've heard about people who do the complete album front to back, it's usually because there's a few songs in there they have rarely or have never played.

When The Rolling Stones rehearse or Bruce Springsteen rehearse, they bring out a book of all the songs in their catalog and start going down the list. It's a given they want to play everything on CD because it's the latest and greatest, and still pretty fresh in their minds.

Neil Young is a case where he could give a flying f--k what fans want to hear. He could decide to play a hits free setlist on one tour, then deliver a loaded with hits setlist on another tour. He took "Greenville" to arenas, and I know a lot of fans were pissed because they wanted something they knew. But no, he gave them 20 minute versions of "Greenville". For the hardcore fans that just enjoy seeing and hearing him do anything live, that's great. But I don't think the venue is appropriate to do something like that.

But then again, Pink Floyd did The Wall and nothing but The Wall in 1980-1981, and the crowd might have known one song from there.

If Axl Rose wanted to tell the crowd "no AFD or UYI, I'm not in the mood to sing WTTJ for the thousandth time", tonight you're getting only CD and Britney Spears covers and Wooly Bully", it wouldn't surprise me. If U2 told a stadium "tonight it's an hour of Pop, and an hour of No Line", they'd hear a lot of boo-hooing.

I don't know if GNR had gone through the entire back catalog during rehearsals, but if a song didn't work in rehearsals, it was prob. ditched or put off for another time. But I also think they have to be ready to play anything in the back catalog.

It takes big balls for an established artist to play nothing but new songs and not give fans the hits. I remember people were VERY pissed when Bowie did Tin Machine. No solo Bowie at all. Great music (minus the Lennon cover) though.

[RocketKing99]

xGNRxSTARx stop writing as if you know everything because you don't.

The old lineup DOES NOT get paid everytime GNR plays one of their songs. The venue every year pays some money to ASCAP. ASCAP every year distributes the money collected based on the historic sales of the artists.

GNR can play whatever they want, if they play Whole Lotta Rosie they don't have to pay ACDC. ASCAP pays ACDC a % of the total money they collect based on ACDC's historic sales.

Edited February 20, 2010 by RocketKing99

[springclean]

It takes big balls for an established artist to play nothing but new songs and not give fans the hits.

something that will never happen in guns. too many idiots in the audience.

think full cd in sequence + silkworms + oh my god. and my world on top of that.

i'd love it but most people would probably burn down the venue or something.

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

xGNRxSTARx stop writing as if you know everything because you don't.

The old lineup DOES NOT get paid everytime GNR plays one of their songs. The venue every year pays some money to ASCAP. ASCAP every year distributes the money collected based on the historic sales of the artists.

GNR can play whatever they want, if they play Whole Lotta Rosie they don't have to pay ACDC. ASCAP pays ACDC a % of the total money they collect based on ACDC's historic sales.

zomg ur such a gnr educator~!!!@@

[sturginho]

It takes big balls for an established artist to play nothing but new songs and not give fans the hits.

something that will never happen in guns. too many idiots in the audience.

think full cd in sequence + silkworms + oh my god. and my world on top of that.

i'd love it but most people would probably burn down the venue or something.

They could try something similar to what Metallica did a few years back with Master of Puppets, start the show with a few hits, then play the whole album from start to finish, then end the show with some more classics

[NightProwler]

Springsteen is,what 15 years older than Axl and he still does cool stuff like that for his fans. Great idea, but I doubt the band wants to learn all those songs. They have been doing the same FOUR Illusions songs (2 of which are covers) for the last ten years.

True, but Springsteen just stands there all show Axl does not. If Bruce ran around like Axl he would not make it through 1/3 of his set.

I would much rather have them play most of CD and add back in silkworms, riad and oh my god, then hear the AFD songs no one cares about (think about you / anything goes)

I agree that Bruce doesn't move as much as Axl, but he doesn't stand in one place all concert. ahaha. I saw him in Buffalo in November 09. He crowd surfed and came to the middle of the floor 4 times that concert. He also brings people on stage as well.

[springclean]

I agree that Bruce doesn't move as much as Axl, but he doesn't stand in one place all concert. ahaha. I saw him in Buffalo in November 09. He crowd surfed and came to the middle of the floor 4 times that concert. He also brings people on stage as well.

and he sweats like a motherfucker!

[NightProwler]

I agree that Bruce doesn't move as much as Axl, but he doesn't stand in one place all concert. ahaha. I saw him in Buffalo in November 09. He crowd surfed and came to the middle of the floor 4 times that concert. He also brings people on stage as well.

and he sweats like a motherfucker!

Yeah he does! He played 3 hours 32 minutes when I saw him in Buffalo. Dude must lose so much weight every show ahaha

[Powerage5]

its rediculous that AXL refuses to play anything off UYI except 2 dumb covers. These are great albums with great songs. GET A CLUE AXL, and give the fans what we want. HOW HARD OF A CONCEPT IS THAT???

In before a GNR-educator™ tells you that NR and YCBM are not covers.

Last I heard it's a publishing rights thing these two songs belong to the AFD era rights so he can play them plus the covers.

VR didn't play any UYI material either, did they?

Well,why couldn't he play Breakdown and Coma if he is credited as sole writer? I know that Slash,Duff,Izzy,etc. get $ when songs they wrote are performed in concert by GNR.

thats not true

Another GNR-educator? Did Izzy,Slash and Duff sign away their rights to those songs? Read the previous pages,artists get paid when their songs are played live by other bands.

I say this as respectfully as possible, but can you just shut the fuck up with all this GNR-Educator shit? First off, none of us even know what the fuck it means, secondly it makes you look like an asshole every time you say it, and finally, I seriously doubt you actually trademarked it.

That is all.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Powerage5

[Powerage5]

its rediculous that AXL refuses to play anything off UYI except 2 dumb covers. These are great albums with great songs. GET A CLUE AXL, and give the fans what we want. HOW HARD OF A CONCEPT IS THAT???

In before a GNR-educator™ tells you that NR and YCBM are not covers.

Last I heard it's a publishing rights thing these two songs belong to the AFD era rights so he can play them plus the covers.

VR didn't play any UYI material either, did they?

Well,why couldn't he play Breakdown and Coma if he is credited as sole writer? I know that Slash,Duff,Izzy,etc. get $ when songs they wrote are performed in concert by GNR.

thats not true

Another GNR-educator? Did Izzy,Slash and Duff sign away their rights to those songs? Read the previous pages,artists get paid when their songs are played live by other bands.

I say this as respectfully as possible, but can you just shut the fuck up with all this GNR-Educator shit? First off, none of us even know what the fuck it means, secondly it makes you look like an asshole every time you say it, and finally, I seriously doubt you actually trademarked it.

That is all.

It's on a need to know basis,Broham. Don't worry about the trademarks. I have never seen people get so worked up over a word.

Care to explain a bit better?

[dalsh327]

I agree that Bruce doesn't move as much as Axl, but he doesn't stand in one place all concert. ahaha. I saw him in Buffalo in November 09. He crowd surfed and came to the middle of the floor 4 times that concert. He also brings people on stage as well.

and he sweats like a motherfucker!

Bruce is also 60 years old, and has a body of work that he can do on his own or with a band. The past decade of working with the band were about bringing old fans as well as getting new ones in. He's had a great decade worth of music.

[NightProwler]

I agree that Bruce doesn't move as much as Axl, but he doesn't stand in one place all concert. ahaha. I saw him in Buffalo in November 09. He crowd surfed and came to the middle of the floor 4 times that concert. He also brings people on stage as well.

and he sweats like a motherfucker!

Bruce is also 60 years old, and has a body of work that he can do on his own or with a band. The past decade of working with the band were about bringing old fans as well as getting new ones in. He's had a great decade worth of music.

Yep! He's toured every year since 02 or 03 with the E Street Band, Solo, or SSB. He's definately my favorite artist just ahead of GNR. The man is just a machine and a brilliant musician.