WARCAT Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 absorb and comprehend the complexity of Chinese Democracy or the UYIs. Guns fans give themselves too much credit as having some sort of refined musical pallet. Truthfully there is nothing truly "complicated" about any of those albums. Different from Appetite, yes. Complicated, not so much.So you're saying it's easy to create 14 songs worth of 50 tracks layered on top of each other like Tiger Wood's hookers, I hope not.Nope, ain't easy is a very intricate time-consuming process, and yeah the songs are complex compared to what most ppl are releasing.A basic knowledge of music composition and studio techniques might help some people know what they are talking about, and the article is complete rubbish.Painting the Sistine Chapel was "very Intricate and time-consuming" and that only took Michelangelo 4 years.....Bands in the 70's, working on analog equipment and no ProTools, would sometimes put out more than one album a year...and we are talking about very muscially complex multitrack albums by bands like Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd... etc..... ..Kind of puts into perspective how self indulgent taking 15 years to record a CD is doesn't it War-drone?So sorry I don't argue with Idiots and/or children, If you don't like the band why are you here? (that is a rhetorical question,no need to reply)Nothing wrong w/pro-tools and/or Logic imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGS Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 absorb and comprehend the complexity of Chinese Democracy or the UYIs. Guns fans give themselves too much credit as having some sort of refined musical pallet. Truthfully there is nothing truly "complicated" about any of those albums. Different from Appetite, yes. Complicated, not so much.So you're saying it's easy to create 14 songs worth of 50 tracks layered on top of each other like Tiger Wood's hookers, I hope not.Nope, ain't easy is a very intricate time-consuming process, and yeah the songs are complex compared to what most ppl are releasing.A basic knowledge of music composition and studio techniques might help some people know what they are talking about, and the article is complete rubbish.Painting the Sistine Chapel was "very Intricate and time-consuming" and that only took Michelangelo 4 years.....Bands in the 70's, working on analog equipment and no ProTools, would sometimes put out more than one album a year...and we are talking about very muscially complex multitrack albums by bands like Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd... etc..... ..Kind of puts into perspective how self indulgent taking 15 years to record a CD is doesn't it War-drone?So sorry I don't argue with Idiots and/or children, If you don't like the band why are you here? (that is a rhetorical question,no need to reply)Nothing wrong w/pro-tools and/or Logic imo Typical answer from you War-drone when you can't defend one of your positions...................I did not say there was anything wrong with using Protools but you make it sound like Axl was cracking the Human genome...my point is bands like Yes and Pink Floyd were releasing very musically complex albums back in the early 70's at a rate of 1 or more a year on analog equipment where the editing was done with razor blades..yet it takes Axl 15 years to produce an album with an unlimited budget and the most sophisticated computer tools at his disposal...Seems a little extreme when you think about it Yes?? And to answer your other question I originally came here as I am a GnR fan and I do learn lot from other members, even the Axelites.............but I really stay here to challenge Axl-drones such as yourself when you post your one sided propaganda.....I know someday you will surpise me with an original thought not given to you by one of Axl's "chats".....I know you have it in you somewhere..............yes, i know, it doesnt take that long... but take things in consideration, more than 12 band members/producers leaving/coming, his mother died in 1996, thats was a hard time for him till he found Beta, the company refusing to spend more money in the album, add some years for him to rest (yes he is a human, he may want to get some vacations) and lots of more things i probably forgot... lots of them... and, dont forget that almos all of the UYI were made while the AFD times... and took like 8 years to release that material... well... u might find an idea why it took to long... besides all the expl that Axl gave to us...sry my english... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateChick Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) but I really stay here to challenge Axl-drones Don't you have something better to do than coming to a forum to argue with people just because they love Axl Rose?I'm trying not to argue with the slashits because it's really annoying writing and reading the same arguments over and over again But at least these people should have the decency to stop coming to the Guns N Roses forums to trash Axl and annoy the fans, and find something better to do with their time Edited March 29, 2010 by PirateChick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateChick Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 but I really stay here to challenge Axl-drones Don't you have something better to do than coming to a forum to annoy people just because they love Axl Rose?I'm trying not to argue with the slashits because it's really annoying writing and reading the same arguments over and over again But at least these people should have the decency to stop coming to the Guns N Roses forums to trash Axl and annoy the fans, and find something better to do with their time There is a simple solution PirateChick.....start your own Axl worship forum where nobody is allowed to criticize or challenge your beliefs in Axl and where everything Axl says is the gospel....that way you will not be exposed to posts which offend you........Seriously you will have a very narrow minded and distorted view of the world if you only converse with people who agree with your viewpoint of the truth............I applaud the moderators for allowing free speech on this forum, even by those I don't neccessarliy agree with, as some of the opposing viewpoints have made me look at things I may not have considered otherwise..........I might not agree with Jackie Moon and Ali regarding how Axl ended up with the GnR name but they made some interesting points which got me thinking......... broaden your horizons, think outside the box, and stop believing everything Axl says............Don't twist my words I didn't say thatDebating is healthy but someone coming to a forum to trash an artist & his fans is a nutcase. Notice I'm not talking about you (I didn't read all of your posts), but about the people who come here to trash Axl at every opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARCAT Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 but I really stay here to challenge Axl-drones Don't you have something better to do than coming to a forum to annoy people just because they love Axl Rose?I'm trying not to argue with the slashits because it's really annoying writing and reading the same arguments over and over again But at least these people should have the decency to stop coming to the Guns N Roses forums to trash Axl and annoy the fans, and find something better to do with their time There is a simple solution PirateChick.....start your own Axl worship forum where nobody is allowed to criticize or challenge your beliefs in Axl and where everything Axl says is the gospel....that way you will not be exposed to posts which offend you........Seriously you will have a very narrow minded and distorted view of the world if you only converse with people who agree with your viewpoint of the truth............I applaud the moderators for allowing free speech on this forum, even by those I don't neccessarliy agree with, as some of the opposing viewpoints have made me look at things I may not have considered otherwise..........I might not agree with Jackie Moon and Ali regarding how Axl ended up with the GnR name but they made some interesting points which got me thinking......... broaden your horizons, think outside the box, and stop believing everything Axl says............Don't twist my words I didn't say thatDebating is healthy but someone coming to a forum to trash an artist & his fans is a nutcase. Notice I'm not talking about you (I didn't read all of your posts), but about the people who come here to trash Axl at every opportunitySorry if I misunderstood your intent but you did respond to my post and seemed to be directing your comments to me?...Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, and I am looking forward to seeing NuGnR in concert just as I am looking forward to the Slash solo tour as a good show is a good show as far as I am concerned. I think the new band is very talented but personally I don't see them as GnR as I beleive there is more to a band then just the name...but that is again my opinion and I don't have a need to try to convert those who are believers in the NuGnR...Also don't care if there is a reunion as I was fortunate to have seen the classic lineup and UYI lineup several times and don't think they can capture that magic again......But I am not a fan of Axl as a person and, you do not have to agree as this is my opinion, I think there is enough evidence to support that he threw his ex bandmates and business associates under the bus for his own profit. I find it hard to believe all these people are lying and Axl is the victim.....If you read my posts I generally don't bash Axl for the sake of bashing him but do defend Slash and will challenge Axlites when I think they are simply repeating Axl's dogma..............This is GnR forum and whether you and other NuGnR fans like it or not Slash is a big part of the GnR legacy so expect his fans to defend him when the Axlites attack ................ So that is where I am coming from if you care............I don't care for slash as a person, and I think his work since he left GNR has been substandard at best, same tired riffs and appearances on everything from AI to Ellen has the smell of $elf -promotional spotlightjunkie, now that you know where I'm coming from this isn't the correct place to discuss $la$h, that would be in the "former gunners" section,I don't cupcake that, so kindly stop trolling this section. I'm sick and tired of all these threads turning into a VS. match. And like it or not Guns N' Roses is alive,well and kicking ass on tour.LOL $la$h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axl8302 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) but I really stay here to challenge Axl-drones Don't you have something better to do than coming to a forum to annoy people just because they love Axl Rose?I'm trying not to argue with the slashits because it's really annoying writing and reading the same arguments over and over again But at least these people should have the decency to stop coming to the Guns N Roses forums to trash Axl and annoy the fans, and find something better to do with their time There is a simple solution PirateChick.....start your own Axl worship forum where nobody is allowed to criticize or challenge your beliefs in Axl and where everything Axl says is the gospel....that way you will not be exposed to posts which offend you........Seriously you will have a very narrow minded and distorted view of the world if you only converse with people who agree with your viewpoint of the truth............I applaud the moderators for allowing free speech on this forum, even by those I don't neccessarliy agree with, as some of the opposing viewpoints have made me look at things I may not have considered otherwise..........I might not agree with Jackie Moon and Ali regarding how Axl ended up with the GnR name but they made some interesting points which got me thinking......... broaden your horizons, think outside the box, and stop believing everything Axl says............Don't twist my words I didn't say thatDebating is healthy but someone coming to a forum to trash an artist & his fans is a nutcase. Notice I'm not talking about you (I didn't read all of your posts), but about the people who come here to trash Axl at every opportunitySorry if I misunderstood your intent but you did respond to my post and seemed to be directing your comments to me?...Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, and I am looking forward to seeing NuGnR in concert just as I am looking forward to the Slash solo tour as a good show is a good show as far as I am concerned. I think the new band is very talented but personally I don't see them as GnR as I beleive there is more to a band then just the name...but that is again my opinion and I don't have a need to try to convert those who are believers in the NuGnR...Also don't care if there is a reunion as I was fortunate to have seen the classic lineup and UYI lineup several times and don't think they can capture that magic again......But I am not a fan of Axl as a person and, you do not have to agree as this is my opinion, I think there is enough evidence to support that he threw his ex bandmates and business associates under the bus for his own profit. I find it hard to believe all these people are lying and Axl is the victim.....If you read my posts I generally don't bash Axl for the sake of bashing him but do defend Slash and will challenge Axlites when I think they are simply repeating Axl's dogma..............This is GnR forum and whether you and other NuGnR fans like it or not Slash is a big part of the GnR legacy so expect his fans to defend him when the Axlites attack ................ So that is where I am coming from if you care............The album didn't take 15 years to make! More like 10. Edited March 30, 2010 by axl8302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARCAT Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 but I really stay here to challenge Axl-drones Don't you have something better to do than coming to a forum to annoy people just because they love Axl Rose?I'm trying not to argue with the slashits because it's really annoying writing and reading the same arguments over and over again But at least these people should have the decency to stop coming to the Guns N Roses forums to trash Axl and annoy the fans, and find something better to do with their time There is a simple solution PirateChick.....start your own Axl worship forum where nobody is allowed to criticize or challenge your beliefs in Axl and where everything Axl says is the gospel....that way you will not be exposed to posts which offend you........Seriously you will have a very narrow minded and distorted view of the world if you only converse with people who agree with your viewpoint of the truth............I applaud the moderators for allowing free speech on this forum, even by those I don't neccessarliy agree with, as some of the opposing viewpoints have made me look at things I may not have considered otherwise..........I might not agree with Jackie Moon and Ali regarding how Axl ended up with the GnR name but they made some interesting points which got me thinking......... broaden your horizons, think outside the box, and stop believing everything Axl says............Don't twist my words I didn't say thatDebating is healthy but someone coming to a forum to trash an artist & his fans is a nutcase. Notice I'm not talking about you (I didn't read all of your posts), but about the people who come here to trash Axl at every opportunitySorry if I misunderstood your intent but you did respond to my post and seemed to be directing your comments to me?...Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, and I am looking forward to seeing NuGnR in concert just as I am looking forward to the Slash solo tour as a good show is a good show as far as I am concerned. I think the new band is very talented but personally I don't see them as GnR as I beleive there is more to a band then just the name...but that is again my opinion and I don't have a need to try to convert those who are believers in the NuGnR...Also don't care if there is a reunion as I was fortunate to have seen the classic lineup and UYI lineup several times and don't think they can capture that magic again......But I am not a fan of Axl as a person and, you do not have to agree as this is my opinion, I think there is enough evidence to support that he threw his ex bandmates and business associates under the bus for his own profit. I find it hard to believe all these people are lying and Axl is the victim.....If you read my posts I generally don't bash Axl for the sake of bashing him but do defend Slash and will challenge Axlites when I think they are simply repeating Axl's dogma..............This is GnR forum and whether you and other NuGnR fans like it or not Slash is a big part of the GnR legacy so expect his fans to defend him when the Axlites attack ................ So that is where I am coming from if you care............The album didn't take 15 years to make! More like 10.You can't tell "some" people anything, they find reasons to come and bitch, they must live really gratifying lives, Don't know why they can't post in the "former members" thread, Must really bother em' that Guns N' Roses is on a kickass tour :xmassrudolph: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsys Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, ............I'm c urious to you and others who expected more after 15 years. What more did you expect? I'm being serious. I think there must have been some expectation of what you would finally hear that you were even a bit disappointed with what was finally released. So I'm wondering what you had expected more of, less of, instead of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastodonny Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, ............I'm c urious to you and others who expected more after 15 years. What more did you expect? I'm being serious. I think there must have been some expectation of what you would finally hear that you were even a bit disappointed with what was finally released. So I'm wondering what you had expected more of, less of, instead of...I expected something on par with AFD. Not an AFD II but songs that reach out and grab you and make you want to hear them again and again. I did not expect an album full of feel sorry for me ballads. I didn't expect it to sound so dated. The added beats sound mid 90s at best. I saw Bucket with them in 2001 and I expected him to be the most prominently heard guitar but instead he is muddled in a mess of 5 guitars. Don't get me wrong, it is a good album but not an all-time great. If Axl was so keen on modernizing GNR's sound he should have listened to some Radiohead or TV on the Radio and gleaned the best parts from their albums. With the exception of TIL, which I think is the worst Axl song ever, the songs are strong but they just lack the chemistry of a band that is cohesive. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bonham Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 IMO many of the songs on Chinese Democracy are fantastic: TWAT, Prostitute, etc., but the album itself is an utter mess.Overcooked. Soulless. Cluttered. Mechanical. I prefer every demo version of those songs over the finished product with Frank and Bumble's additions needlessly cut-n-pasted (too loudly) over the top. Completely unnecessary. Did Axl really have to add them to the album? Their parts stick out like sore thumbs.Axl absolutely destroyed "Catcher in the Rye," "Riad" & "Better."The final record sounds like a total rush job, just to prove that they weren't lying when they said that the demos weren't the finished product.Axl just kept adding layer after layer with a complete disregard for how the parts sounded in each individual track.It's such a crime. You know it's true.Like I said - good songs, terrible album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintari Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, ............I'm c urious to you and others who expected more after 15 years. What more did you expect? I'm being serious. I think there must have been some expectation of what you would finally hear that you were even a bit disappointed with what was finally released. So I'm wondering what you had expected more of, less of, instead of...When you consider his talent, and the time it took to make the album, it's hard to expect anything other then something along the lines of The Wall. I expected it to revolutionize rock music. None necessarily modern rock, but redefine classic rock. I expected both commercial and critical success and I expected Guns N Roses to live up to the Guns N Roses name. It did none of the above.When you think about how talented he is (Estranged piano demo anyone?) and how much money was thrown into it, along with the years he had to perfect it....CD is sort of a let down. Had the record come out in 1996, it wouldn't have had that issue. Edited March 30, 2010 by Nintari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plonker88 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 There are certain aspects of the album that will polarise people, one of them being the production of the songs, some will hate how its done, some will love it.Chinese Democracy is probably one of the most marmite albums out there.I fucking love the thing and can listen to it day after day, whereas others gave it a few listens and shrugged. It's like Axl said "You'll like at least a few songs on there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsys Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Listen I respect Axl as a musician I think he is very talented. I do like ChiDem, although I expected more for an album which took 15 years to complete, ............I'm c urious to you and others who expected more after 15 years. What more did you expect? I'm being serious. I think there must have been some expectation of what you would finally hear that you were even a bit disappointed with what was finally released. So I'm wondering what you had expected more of, less of, instead of...When you consider his talent, and the time it took to make the album, it's hard to expect anything other then something along the lines of The Wall. I expected it to revolutionize rock music. None necessarily modern rock, but redefine classic rock. I expected both commercial and critical success and I expected Guns N Roses to live up to the Guns N Roses name. It did none of the above.When you think about how talented he is (Estranged piano demo anyone?) and how much money was thrown into it, along with the years he had to perfect it....CD is sort of a let down. Had the record come out in 1996, it wouldn't have had that issue.That's it exactly. The judgement of ChiDem is, in large part, tied to the wait it seems. But I'm not sure that any album would have measured up after that wait. I can understand all the responses to my question, but I think yours nailed it for me. If he had released the same album after only a few years, I think it likely would have been received differently than after the long wait.It makes it hard to judge the album on its own merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMo13 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 (edited) IMO The writer got some of the music stuff wrong, but is right on Axl.I still like the guy in certain ways, mostly at a youthful instinctual vocal/lyrical level, but intellectually and thoughtfully I just can't get behind a person who has done the shit he's done to people, bands, and fans.Being a rebel and a individual is one thing, being a selfish asshole who LITERALLY never owns up to anything just shows some kind of mental illness at best. Edited April 7, 2010 by BMo13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 i don't see what Axl did to anyone really, other than be a victim of circumstance. the media just likes to paint him as the bad boy of rock n roll because he won't play their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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