There's still some hope for "Estranged"

[Graveyard]

DJ and Ron are not good enough to play estranged and make it sound good.

Ron has pulled it off... WTF are you smoking?

As for DJ, can't say how it would sound unless he played it.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Graveyard

[kate_k]

http://www.petitiononline.com/GNRLIVE/ ? ;-) Edited April 10, 2010 by kate_k

[gnr-dave]

DJ and Ron are not good enough to play estranged and make it sound good.

BH was the only one who could have pulled it off. Its not a knock, I just dont think they could pull it off very well.

That song and coma are two of the hardest songs to pull off live. Even when Slash played it in the UYI days estranged never sounded quite right live.

Estranged its too melodic for Ron to play, and since DJ has struggled with this i loves solo, I think Estranged is way too advanced to tackle for this band.

They should not be adding more UYI songs anyways, they should be adding more CD songs or even bring back silkworms and oh my god.

i figured I should add this.

Dude, you're clearly not a musician. This band has everything needed to pull off Estranged perfectly. This band is seriously technically a lot more talented than the original band...deal with it. It is a fact. You just don't like the person who is now playing it. Which is fine, just say that reason for not liking it, but don't doubt Fortus, Ashba, and Thal's talent, because they are all three amazing guitar players.

Ron is technical sure, but its for playing FAST not melodic. That is a huge difference. Just because you can play super fast does not mean you can playing something like estranged and have it sound melodic. Ron could not even play KOHD solo well when he used to do it. And when Ron plays the mini estranged during his solo, its not that great. He tries to shred it.

Like I said, I like DJ but he struggles on the this i love solos, and that is easy compared to estranged. How do you think he could pull off estranged if he is having trouble with this i love?

And Ron can play fast but not melodic. Ron plays dont cry for his solo but and even that is not very good, its average at best, what makes you think he could pull off estranged?

This band needs to worry less about playing more UYI songs and start playing more CD songs, and even start playing songs on the next album.

That is why this band could not pull off estranged and have it sound good.

Edited April 10, 2010 by gnr-dave

[Naupis]

This band needs to worry less about playing more UYI songs and start playing more CD songs,

Why?

As presently constructed this line-up had about as much to do with writing CD as they did the Illusions, so its all cover tunes anyway. It would be different if the the line-up responsible for creating CD were still in tact, but they're not. Besides, crowds would probably rather hear more Illusions stuff than CD stuff if given a choice.

[gnr-dave]

This band needs to worry less about playing more UYI songs and start playing more CD songs,

Why?

As presently constructed this line-up had about as much to do with writing CD as they did the Illusions, so its all cover tunes anyway. It would be different if the the line-up responsible for creating CD were still in tact, but they're not. Besides, crowds would probably rather hear more Illusions stuff than CD stuff if given a choice.

Because its the Chinese Democracy tour, it's one thing to replace UYI songs with some of the AFD songs they are playing but we all know that would not happen. They would replace a UYI song with a CD song.

PLUS estranged is only a song the die hard fans like, most fans at these shows would not want to hear it, esp by this version of gnr.

Axl should want to move away from all these old songs and move forward with his new band and start playing all new songs. You would think by the time the next album comes out, he would only be playing a handful of old songs (just the hits) then the rest would be CD and the follow up album songs.

If Axl wants to show his true talent he should want to play more new song and less old songs so he should show the world he was the reason Gnr were so good.

[Graeme]

DJ and Ron are not good enough to play estranged and make it sound good.

BH was the only one who could have pulled it off. Its not a knock, I just dont think they could pull it off very well.

That song and coma are two of the hardest songs to pull off live. Even when Slash played it in the UYI days estranged never sounded quite right live.

Estranged its too melodic for Ron to play, and since DJ has struggled with this i loves solo, I think Estranged is way too advanced to tackle for this band.

They should not be adding more UYI songs anyways, they should be adding more CD songs or even bring back silkworms and oh my god.

i figured I should add this.

Dude, you're clearly not a musician. This band has everything needed to pull off Estranged perfectly. This band is seriously technically a lot more talented than the original band...deal with it. It is a fact. You just don't like the person who is now playing it. Which is fine, just say that reason for not liking it, but don't doubt Fortus, Ashba, and Thal's talent, because they are all three amazing guitar players.

Ron is technical sure, but its for playing FAST not melodic. That is a huge difference. Just because you can play super fast does not mean you can playing something like estranged and have it sound melodic. Ron could not even play KOHD solo well when he used to do it. And when Ron plays the mini estranged during his solo, its not that great. He tries to shred it.

Listen to Barefoot, the acoustic album, it's on spotify. If after that you still believe Ron doesn't do melodic then you're deaf. Ron plays in that super-fast noodly style a lot because he enjoys it and it's a challenge to him, but if you listen to his guitar playing over the current tour he's adapted himself completely to the GNR sound, he'd be more than capable of playing Estranged note for note, I'd even trust him to change it up a little bit because I'm sure he could do it tastefully. He has a lot of respect for the song, and so do the other guys by the sound of it, I'm sure they'd be determined to do it justice and they're more than talented enough to make it sound huge.

[riot]

This band needs to worry less about playing more UYI songs and start playing more CD songs,

Why?

As presently constructed this line-up had about as much to do with writing CD as they did the Illusions, so its all cover tunes anyway. It would be different if the the line-up responsible for creating CD were still in tact, but they're not. Besides, crowds would probably rather hear more Illusions stuff than CD stuff if given a choice.

oh come on now thats funny! stinson's there,dizzy's there,fortus'there,pittman and THE band is there...axl. stop with saying its cover tune because mister bucket's not there. in the end most of the guys are there and as long as axl who decides everything in the band is there, nothing on chinese is a cover. 96% of the crowd, I'm not saying they like or dislike chinese, but these 96% certainly dont give a fuck about a guy with a bucket who act like a fucking robot.

[gnr-dave]

DJ and Ron are not good enough to play estranged and make it sound good.

BH was the only one who could have pulled it off. Its not a knock, I just dont think they could pull it off very well.

That song and coma are two of the hardest songs to pull off live. Even when Slash played it in the UYI days estranged never sounded quite right live.

Estranged its too melodic for Ron to play, and since DJ has struggled with this i loves solo, I think Estranged is way too advanced to tackle for this band.

They should not be adding more UYI songs anyways, they should be adding more CD songs or even bring back silkworms and oh my god.

i figured I should add this.

Dude, you're clearly not a musician. This band has everything needed to pull off Estranged perfectly. This band is seriously technically a lot more talented than the original band...deal with it. It is a fact. You just don't like the person who is now playing it. Which is fine, just say that reason for not liking it, but don't doubt Fortus, Ashba, and Thal's talent, because they are all three amazing guitar players.

Ron is technical sure, but its for playing FAST not melodic. That is a huge difference. Just because you can play super fast does not mean you can playing something like estranged and have it sound melodic. Ron could not even play KOHD solo well when he used to do it. And when Ron plays the mini estranged during his solo, its not that great. He tries to shred it.

Listen to Barefoot, the acoustic album, it's on spotify. If after that you still believe Ron doesn't do melodic then you're deaf. Ron plays in that super-fast noodly style a lot because he enjoys it and it's a challenge to him, but if you listen to his guitar playing over the current tour he's adapted himself completely to the GNR sound, he'd be more than capable of playing Estranged note for note, I'd even trust him to change it up a little bit because I'm sure he could do it tastefully. He has a lot of respect for the song, and so do the other guys by the sound of it, I'm sure they'd be determined to do it justice and they're more than talented enough to make it sound huge.

All I have to go by is what I have heard Ron do in gnr and I can tell he is not melodic. Just listen to his old KOHD solos, he could not even pull those off.

Go listen to the CITR solo Ron redid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stTDJBeIItU and tell me that is melodic.

You cannot be serious. If you think that solo is melodic and it was when May played it, you are tone deaf.

Ron can shred just fine, and he can play super fast, but when it comes to playing an emotional solo, he just cannot pull it off. That is fine, its not his style, but lets not pretend he is something he is not just because he is a nice guy.

I love Robin and even I admit his style was very loose and sloppy. And that is ok, that is just his style. And Robin was my fave new gnr member behind BH and even I know Robin could never pull off estranged.

BH is the only person who could and yes fortus could pull off Izzys parts easily and i am sure DJ can too. But those main solo solos, only BH can nail it like the album version.

[henfjel]

DJ and Ron are not good enough to play estranged and make it sound good.

BH was the only one who could have pulled it off. Its not a knock, I just dont think they could pull it off very well.

That song and coma are two of the hardest songs to pull off live. Even when Slash played it in the UYI days estranged never sounded quite right live.

Estranged its too melodic for Ron to play, and since DJ has struggled with this i loves solo, I think Estranged is way too advanced to tackle for this band.

They should not be adding more UYI songs anyways, they should be adding more CD songs or even bring back silkworms and oh my god.

i figured I should add this.

Dude, you're clearly not a musician. This band has everything needed to pull off Estranged perfectly. This band is seriously technically a lot more talented than the original band...deal with it. It is a fact. You just don't like the person who is now playing it. Which is fine, just say that reason for not liking it, but don't doubt Fortus, Ashba, and Thal's talent, because they are all three amazing guitar players.

Ron is technical sure, but its for playing FAST not melodic. That is a huge difference. Just because you can play super fast does not mean you can playing something like estranged and have it sound melodic. Ron could not even play KOHD solo well when he used to do it. And when Ron plays the mini estranged during his solo, its not that great. He tries to shred it.

Listen to Barefoot, the acoustic album, it's on spotify. If after that you still believe Ron doesn't do melodic then you're deaf. Ron plays in that super-fast noodly style a lot because he enjoys it and it's a challenge to him, but if you listen to his guitar playing over the current tour he's adapted himself completely to the GNR sound, he'd be more than capable of playing Estranged note for note, I'd even trust him to change it up a little bit because I'm sure he could do it tastefully. He has a lot of respect for the song, and so do the other guys by the sound of it, I'm sure they'd be determined to do it justice and they're more than talented enough to make it sound huge.

All I have to go by is what I have heard Ron do in gnr and I can tell he is not melodic. Just listen to his old KOHD solos, he could not even pull those off.

Go listen to the CITR solo Ron redid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stTDJBeIItU and tell me that is melodic.

You cannot be serious. If you think that solo is melodic and it was when May played it, you are tone deaf.

Ron can shred just fine, and he can play super fast, but when it comes to playing an emotional solo, he just cannot pull it off. That is fine, its not his style, but lets not pretend he is something he is not just because he is a nice guy.

I love Robin and even I admit his style was very loose and sloppy. And that is ok, that is just his style. And Robin was my fave new gnr member behind BH and even I know Robin could never pull off estranged.

BH is the only person who could and yes fortus could pull off Izzys parts easily and i am sure DJ can too. But those main solo solos, only BH can nail it like the album version.

gnr-dave, you clearly dont know shit about musicians!

a guitar player has his style which he plays that makes his work and music the way it is. the reason for ron playing fast is because he likes it, it challenges him and it is his style. you can't judge him on the fact that he likes to play fast. ANY guitarplayer of his caliber can play the way slash does without ANY problem what so ever. it is not right for a guitar player to play exactly like another guitar player because a solo on a song is like it is on the record. the reason for songs having solos is for the guitar player to play what he wants and play it his way.

you say DJ struggles on his TIL solo, but has it ever entered your mind that he intend to play it like that and not EXACTLY like bucket? (or robin, i don't know who plays it on CD) how do you know that the TIL solo is so much easier that the estranged solos? he doesen't have trouble with playing TIL, he has his own style to it like bumble has on his solos and richard has on his solos. actually, i have a friend who can play the estranged solos and he is 16 and has been playing for 2 years!! no problem.

i agree that they should play more CD songs, since this is the CD tour, but man, you are totally wrong about this current bands ability to play estranged

[ChristianGNR]

gnr-dave. You must agree that you have done the most bizarre opinions in the last 10 years.

[Young_Gun]

I do have to agree with some of what Gnr-dave said. For one, Ashba cannot play the TIL solo note for note. Want proof? Check out the first couple of Japanese shows they did where he bummed the solo, then in the Canadian shows, he "adopts" his own approach to it. This is very telling as he did try to play it as on the record initially but couldn't do it so he simplified it a few shows later. Sorry but its not him "putting his own style on it", he had no choice but to do that or keep bumming the solo.

As for which solo is harder(estranged or TIL) im not sure, i have both official tab books so il check it out and try play both and see for myself.

Regarding BBF... he can play melodically, i won't say he can't. But i don't think he can do it to the degree of Slash(or even Bucket)but this is when new original material is concerned . BBF playing estranged wouldn't sound too far from Slash playing it, hell i've seen people on youtube playing it pretty much spot on, for BBF it shouldn't be a problem.

[gnr-dave]

DJ and Ron are not good enough to play estranged and make it sound good.

BH was the only one who could have pulled it off. Its not a knock, I just dont think they could pull it off very well.

That song and coma are two of the hardest songs to pull off live. Even when Slash played it in the UYI days estranged never sounded quite right live.

Estranged its too melodic for Ron to play, and since DJ has struggled with this i loves solo, I think Estranged is way too advanced to tackle for this band.

They should not be adding more UYI songs anyways, they should be adding more CD songs or even bring back silkworms and oh my god.

i figured I should add this.

Dude, you're clearly not a musician. This band has everything needed to pull off Estranged perfectly. This band is seriously technically a lot more talented than the original band...deal with it. It is a fact. You just don't like the person who is now playing it. Which is fine, just say that reason for not liking it, but don't doubt Fortus, Ashba, and Thal's talent, because they are all three amazing guitar players.

Ron is technical sure, but its for playing FAST not melodic. That is a huge difference. Just because you can play super fast does not mean you can playing something like estranged and have it sound melodic. Ron could not even play KOHD solo well when he used to do it. And when Ron plays the mini estranged during his solo, its not that great. He tries to shred it.

Listen to Barefoot, the acoustic album, it's on spotify. If after that you still believe Ron doesn't do melodic then you're deaf. Ron plays in that super-fast noodly style a lot because he enjoys it and it's a challenge to him, but if you listen to his guitar playing over the current tour he's adapted himself completely to the GNR sound, he'd be more than capable of playing Estranged note for note, I'd even trust him to change it up a little bit because I'm sure he could do it tastefully. He has a lot of respect for the song, and so do the other guys by the sound of it, I'm sure they'd be determined to do it justice and they're more than talented enough to make it sound huge.

All I have to go by is what I have heard Ron do in gnr and I can tell he is not melodic. Just listen to his old KOHD solos, he could not even pull those off.

Go listen to the CITR solo Ron redid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stTDJBeIItU and tell me that is melodic.

You cannot be serious. If you think that solo is melodic and it was when May played it, you are tone deaf.

Ron can shred just fine, and he can play super fast, but when it comes to playing an emotional solo, he just cannot pull it off. That is fine, its not his style, but lets not pretend he is something he is not just because he is a nice guy.

I love Robin and even I admit his style was very loose and sloppy. And that is ok, that is just his style. And Robin was my fave new gnr member behind BH and even I know Robin could never pull off estranged.

BH is the only person who could and yes fortus could pull off Izzys parts easily and i am sure DJ can too. But those main solo solos, only BH can nail it like the album version.

gnr-dave, you clearly dont know shit about musicians!

a guitar player has his style which he plays that makes his work and music the way it is. the reason for ron playing fast is because he likes it, it challenges him and it is his style. you can't judge him on the fact that he likes to play fast. ANY guitarplayer of his caliber can play the way slash does without ANY problem what so ever. it is not right for a guitar player to play exactly like another guitar player because a solo on a song is like it is on the record. the reason for songs having solos is for the guitar player to play what he wants and play it his way.

you say DJ struggles on his TIL solo, but has it ever entered your mind that he intend to play it like that and not EXACTLY like bucket? (or robin, i don't know who plays it on CD) how do you know that the TIL solo is so much easier that the estranged solos? he doesen't have trouble with playing TIL, he has his own style to it like bumble has on his solos and richard has on his solos. actually, i have a friend who can play the estranged solos and he is 16 and has been playing for 2 years!! no problem.

i agree that they should play more CD songs, since this is the CD tour, but man, you are totally wrong about this current bands ability to play estranged

We are going in circles. This band cannot pull off estranged, Ron could not even play a decent KOHD solo (why do you think they gave it to DJ), we have already heard him play dont cry and that was not very good, and his small bit of estranged he does is also mediocre at best. Estranged is one song this band should never touch.

And Yes DJ struggles with TIL, don't give me that crap he is playing it a different style, he was butchering it and I like DJ. Almost everyone on this board admitted DJ was struggling with the TILsolo in the beginning. You honestly cannot deny that.

There is as reason is was pulled from the set list for a while, so he could practice it and play the solo better.

The last time I heard him play it on youtube it was much better than when he first was playing it. If it was his style, then it would never change, but he has gotten a lot better at playing it.

You really have to be kidding me if you cannot admit estranged is much more advanced to play than TIL is.

Are you really serious?

[plonker88]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

[Graveyard]

To say the guitar players in the band "couldn't handle" any Guns N Roses material from any era is silly.

[Shackler]

lol gnrdave

[Caroline]

Lol!! for some posts above!

In fact I can`t wait to see the current lineup playing Estranged: Ron and Fortus mainly. killer!

Edited April 11, 2010 by Caroline

[gnr-dave]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

We have seen Ron cannot play anything melodically very well since he has joined guns n roses.

DJ who is very good has struggled with some of Robins solos esp TIL, which is easier to play than estranged.

If they were to play estranged DJ would have a much better chance at playing it correctly than Ron since DJ seems to be better at the bluesier solos.

If this band tried estranged it would be a train wreck.

To say the guitar players in the band "couldn't handle" any Guns N Roses material from any era is silly.

Ron could not even handle a decent simple KOHD solo, now that is silly.

[plonker88]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

[gnr-dave]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

I have seen this band about 10 times 8 of which with Ron, so I am pretty sure I am able to judge. Unless you are talking about the estranged bid he does, then yes I have not seen that in person, but its not that good.

Ron will just try to shred the estranged notes and he will butcher the song.

And using that logic, no one can say this band could pull it off either then. So this topic should just be locked then right?

[Jakey Styley]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

I have seen this band about 10 times 8 of which with Ron, so I am pretty sure I am able to judge. Unless you are talking about the estranged bid he does, then yes I have not seen that in person, but its not that good.

Ron will just try to shred the estranged notes and he will butcher the song.

And using that logic, no one can say this band could pull it off either then. So this topic should just be locked then right?

You act like Bumblefoot's fingers are physically incapable of not shredding. It's a choice when he shreds, he's not forced to. His fast Estranged riff isn't bad in Pink Panther, so he can do that and Ashba can do the solos. Or Ashba can do everything. The rhythm guitar sounds Don't Cryish anyway which we know BBF rocks Don't Cry.

Edited April 11, 2010 by ItsSuchACrimeUKnowItsJAKE

[Cdlove]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

I have seen this band about 10 times 8 of which with Ron, so I am pretty sure I am able to judge. Unless you are talking about the estranged bid he does, then yes I have not seen that in person, but its not that good.

Ron will just try to shred the estranged notes and he will butcher the song.

And using that logic, no one can say this band could pull it off either then. So this topic should just be locked then right?

But come on, to say Bumble has no melodic playing.....

I mean really...

[gnr-dave]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

I have seen this band about 10 times 8 of which with Ron, so I am pretty sure I am able to judge. Unless you are talking about the estranged bid he does, then yes I have not seen that in person, but its not that good.

Ron will just try to shred the estranged notes and he will butcher the song.

And using that logic, no one can say this band could pull it off either then. So this topic should just be locked then right?

But come on, to say Bumble has no melodic playing.....

I mean really...

How is that good? Anything melodic he has played in gnr has not been good at all. He ruined Mays CITR solo.

I am not going to start with a Ron bashfest, but Ron should not even be in this band, he was a terrible choice.

I will leave it at that since I dont want to get negative with Ron

Edited April 11, 2010 by gnr-dave

[Cdlove]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

I have seen this band about 10 times 8 of which with Ron, so I am pretty sure I am able to judge. Unless you are talking about the estranged bid he does, then yes I have not seen that in person, but its not that good.

Ron will just try to shred the estranged notes and he will butcher the song.

And using that logic, no one can say this band could pull it off either then. So this topic should just be locked then right?

But come on, to say Bumble has no melodic playing.....

I mean really...

How is that good? Anything melodic he has played in gnr has not been good at all. He ruined Mays CITR solo.

I am not going to start with a Ron bashfest, but Ron should not even be in this band, he was a terrible choice.

I will leave it at that since I dont want to get negative with Ron

It's melodic, which you said Bumble cant do. Not to mention if you listened to Bumble's "Shredding" slowed down you can to the beauty of it.

[plonker88]

gnr-dave, you really should create a sig saying that everything you write is your own opinion and not fact, it would make your time here so much easier.

[gnr-dave]

You can't say this band can't play Estranged until they actually play it, you shouldn't make assumptions about guitar players you don't know.

Of course you can based on what they have played so far.

No you can't because all you are doing is making an assumption on your personal viewpoint about their playing. You can't make a clear judgement on it, as you seem to be doing, if that's not your intent then I apologise, without actually hearing them play it in full in a good quality youtube video/bootleg.

I have seen this band about 10 times 8 of which with Ron, so I am pretty sure I am able to judge. Unless you are talking about the estranged bid he does, then yes I have not seen that in person, but its not that good.

Ron will just try to shred the estranged notes and he will butcher the song.

And using that logic, no one can say this band could pull it off either then. So this topic should just be locked then right?

But come on, to say Bumble has no melodic playing.....

I mean really...

How is that good? Anything melodic he has played in gnr has not been good at all. He ruined Mays CITR solo.

I am not going to start with a Ron bashfest, but Ron should not even be in this band, he was a terrible choice.

I will leave it at that since I dont want to get negative with Ron

It's melodic, which you said Bumble cant do. Not to mention if you listened to Bumble's "Shredding" slowed down you can to the beauty of it.

I said he cannot play anything melodic well, and what ever you call that clip was terrible.

For all the people that bashed robins solo spots, if you just uploaded the audio and called it BBF solo 1 those same people that bashed it because it was robin would say how amazing it sounded because it was BBF.

Anyways lets not go down this road, since we do not want to start a lets bash ron thread

Edited April 11, 2010 by gnr-dave