Jump to content

Do you think that the leaks influenced on Chinese Democracy's tracklist?


ManetsBR

Recommended Posts

I just don't hear the cut and pastes. It's not meant to be raw? It's meant to be melded together in the furnaces of satan. lol i like the way scraped is like this ball of energy with all the riffs are playing backwards against the vocals, how it works i'll never know, but that's the beauty of it in my opinion, it's just seperate instruments playing.

I just feel bad that you don't enjoy the record for what it is, how it was produced, the talent on display. Sure Axl didn't just bump his vocals over the top of everyone like so many other bands have done judging from behind the music eps.

I mean everyone involved is enjoying it. these guys get paid to do this, Axl has a special talent so he holds some extra cards in the situation, if you don't even like the record let it go, it's no skin off you're nose. there's a ton of records I think sucks I'm not over on their site telling them lol i couldnt care less really. the band were on tour loving it, Bucket and Brain got to do what they do in the studio, I don't see them as road dogs, even wanting to be part of the theatre of GNR. Bucket to me should be in the studio doing what he does best. It's really not our war to fight. sure it's fun to discuss, but really they get way more cash and pussy than we'll ever even imagine so at least try to enjoy it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I just don't hear the cut and pastes. It's not meant to be raw? It's meant to be melded together in the furnaces of satan. lol i like the way scraped is like this ball of energy with all the riffs are playing backwards against the vocals, how it works i'll never know, but that's the beauty of it in my opinion, it's just seperate instruments playing.

I just feel bad that you don't enjoy the record for what it is, how it was produced, the talent on display. Sure Axl didn't just bump his vocals over the top of everyone like so many other bands have done judging from behind the music eps.

I mean everyone involved is enjoying it. these guys get paid to do this, Axl has a special talent so he holds some extra cards in the situation, if you don't even like the record let it go, it's no skin off you're nose. there's a ton of records I think sucks I'm not over on their site telling them lol i couldnt care less really. the band were on tour loving it, Bucket and Brain got to do what they do in the studio, I don't see them as road dogs, even wanting to be part of the theatre of GNR. Bucket to me should be in the studio doing what he does best. It's really not our war to fight. sure it's fun to discuss, but really they get way more cash and pussy than we'll ever even imagine so at least try to enjoy it.

How you can not hear the cut and pastes? Seriously. And the album does not melt together, you can hear the cut and pastes on the songs that Ron and Frank put a lot of their touches. The songs that melt the best are the ones without frank and hardly any ron.

Lets take better for example. Here are the copy and pastes just to name a few.

Pasted drum fill way over the rest of the song 1:08 then again at 2:00 plus in a few other places but you get the idea

Rons "dirty guitar' at 1:15 that happens a few times during the song just pasted over the old riff that is pretty similar then you can hear it back back to the normal track that was BH

Rons giant fart over the interlude around 3:18 which is way out of place and just pasted over the old track.

Those are a few examples

I would not care of BH, Robin and Brain did not tour with this band and it was Ron, DJ and Frank on tour as long as Ron Frank and DJ were not pissing all over BH, Brain and Robin parts.

Just leave the album like it was intended before the touring band came, and release the album. The more people that play on the album the worse it gets.

That is why sorry for example sounds so good because Frank is not on it, and ron is barely on it.

Edited by gnr-dave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I'll check it out...

pasted drum fill 1.18 - I didn't hear anything I heard a noodly little bit of guitar? i like that, it's one of those flourishes that is addictive.

Ron's dirty guitar - I like that, that's what makes it rock live for me. They get into that gritty shit. Ypu'd prefer it to glide through? I do agree that here and there the overlapping loses the tune, but it's not really noticeable, it sort of adds a humanness to it, it has a looseness. There's something cool about that farting noise, it's eccentric but that doesnt mean it's bad.

I like that from 3.18 these motifs are great.

Overall I don't notice the pastes, maybe you do cos you know where they are. To me on headphones and stereo is different. On headphones I find SOD a bit ott, but on speakers it all evens out.

Cut and paste to me is very 90s Dj Shadow, there's that quality to it. I think by design. Like old De la Soul records sound cool. CD is like all these little parts put together into this really elborate mesh of fabric. You either like that or don't. On the uptodate stuff it seems more ironed out on Scraped, Sorry, Shackler's. Maybe it's the 70s more GNR songs which it's more jarring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I'll check it out...

pasted drum fill 1.18 - I didn't hear anything I heard a noodly little bit of guitar? i like that, it's one of those flourishes that is addictive.

Ron's dirty guitar - I like that, that's what makes it rock live for me. They get into that gritty shit. Ypu'd prefer it to glide through? I do agree that here and there the overlapping loses the tune, but it's not really noticeable, it sort of adds a humanness to it, it has a looseness. There's something cool about that farting noise, it's eccentric but that doesnt mean it's bad.

I like that from 3.18 these motifs are great.

Overall I don't notice the pastes, maybe you do cos you know where they are. To me on headphones and stereo is different. On headphones I find SOD a bit ott, but on speakers it all evens out.

Cut and paste to me is very 90s Dj Shadow, there's that quality to it. I think by design. Like old De la Soul records sound cool. CD is like all these little parts put together into this really elborate mesh of fabric. You either like that or don't. On the uptodate stuff it seems more ironed out on Scraped, Sorry, Shackler's. Maybe it's the 70s more GNR songs which it's more jarring.

The drum pastes would be fine if they were not so high in the mix, they are way over the normal drum track and its very distracting.

SOD is the worse offense and its not because they added stuff in, its because they cut stuff out. They butchered brains drum.

Listen to the first 1/3 of song from the leaks then from the studio. The studio is missing a ton of brains drumming.

Shacklers revenge is fine, i dont mind rons solo that much but its too bad they took out BHs when it was BHs song.

It seems the older songs sound more off because they were probably taken from a different source since it was made back in 1998-2002 where as stuff after that tech is much better and its easier to cut and paste stuff.

And I do have ADD so maybe that is why things stand out more to me :P

Edited by gnr-dave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked Ron's rhythm work on the album(title track during the verses etc) but did not like his solos(especially Shacklers) or his leads/licks(licks in Better then GnR-Dave mentioned etc). All in all i still love the album, having an all Buckethead/Brain version put out as an alternative would be a dream.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brain and Bucket are still there?

Bumble's stuff isn't that big a deal. He added drama to CD, ITW, some great solos, if it's Ron on Shackler's, that's great I love it. I'm not sure CD would be different if it was 2002 version? Maybe Silkworms would have made it, or other more bucket songs. I do wonder if there is another side like OMG, Silkworms, CD, Better, Riad, IRS, TWAT.

Funny thing is Tobias seems just as important to CD as Bucket. Tobias is credited on all the rock classics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brain and Bucket are still there?

Bumble's stuff isn't that big a deal. He added drama to CD, ITW, some great solos, if it's Ron on Shackler's, that's great I love it. I'm not sure CD would be different if it was 2002 version? Maybe Silkworms would have made it, or other more bucket songs. I do wonder if there is another side like OMG, Silkworms, CD, Better, Riad, IRS, TWAT.

Funny thing is Tobias seems just as important to CD as Bucket. Tobias is credited on all the rock classics.

I agree. Bumble is harmless on Chinese Democracy (for the most part) Frank is not that bad either, It's just Bucket and Brain are so awesome, I feel like well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... especially if it's fuckin' amazing.

I think the album turned out great though. Bumble's additions to Chinese Democracy (the song) are really cool and I like his Catcher solo.

I think paul's value as a songwriter in Guns is immense. I'm glad he's a part of this band.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like the final additions made CD more unique, it's not until I heard the final CD version of Chi Dem that I really thought that's untouchable, you could hear the potential of the riff in early live renditions. On CD somehow they've punched all the songs up a notch from the live versions, maybe it's hard to recreate live but it's there now. For Axl to sing in that really high sweet way on ITW live it seems asking a bit much, but I'd glad it's on the album version.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like the final additions made CD more unique, it's not until I heard the final CD version of Chi Dem that I really thought that's untouchable, you could hear the potential of the riff in early live renditions. On CD somehow they've punched all the songs up a notch from the live versions, maybe it's hard to recreate live but it's there now. For Axl to sing in that really high sweet way on ITW live it seems asking a bit much, but I'd glad it's on the album version.

Yeah, I feel the same way, but I can't help wonder what is going to happen with cd2 if it will see a release: will I be cool with DJ and Bumble guitar parts replacing Bucket's and Robin contributions, if that will be the case? someone will die. (a random victim on the streets)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like the final additions made CD more unique, it's not until I heard the final CD version of Chi Dem that I really thought that's untouchable, you could hear the potential of the riff in early live renditions. On CD somehow they've punched all the songs up a notch from the live versions, maybe it's hard to recreate live but it's there now. For Axl to sing in that really high sweet way on ITW live it seems asking a bit much, but I'd glad it's on the album version.

Yeah, I feel the same way, but I can't help wonder what is going to happen with cd2 if it will see a release: will I be cool with DJ and Bumble guitar parts replacing Bucket's and Robin contributions, if that will be the case? someone will die. (a random victim on the streets)

don't know, axl was talking about Finck's solo even after he left, i reckon he just keeps what he likes, what works for each track, not like Dj has to be on it just cos he's on the tour. That's if they put out CD II at all, hope so as it sounds like they have it done and there's an audience for it. Maybe they do have certain songs that could use some Dj.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

It does not even have to be stripped down. I just think the leaks were perfect, and adding that extra layer IMO was just overkill.

When I said I wanted the songs more raw, I am taking about all the songs should have been more mixed like SR, sorry and rhiad. I dont like the new rhiad solo but at least they fit it in there.

The probably with Cd is there are so many layers of fluff players like Tommys bass are almost non hearable because of it on most songs.

The leaks had the perfect amount of fluff, but the album versions on most songs were over kill.

Edited by gnr-dave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

It does not even have to be stripped down. I just think the leaks were perfect, and adding that extra layer IMO was just overkill.

When I said I wanted the songs more raw, I am taking about all the songs should have been more mixed like SR, sorry and rhiad. I dont like the new rhiad solo but at least they fit it in there.

The probably with Cd is there are so many layers of fluff players like Tommys bass are almost non hearable because of it on most songs.

The leaks had the perfect amount of fluff, but the album versions on most songs were over kill.

See, that's where I disagree, "most of the songs" weren't overkill? CD, Shackler's, ITW, TWAT, Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute are all basically perfect.

I like SOD more than The Blues, like how it punches that kind of song into the modern era. others don't the prefer the camp

Better - most people love it?

Catcher - quite a few people talk about demo, I like album version more, great on a stereo.

IRS - it's hard to say, I think live it comes into it's own on the album version it's more Zeppelinesque, it's like getting that angry in your own house is just wrong, so I enjoy the keyboard bits, it's really just a rant.

I think the difference is that some songs like IRS/Better/TWAT have a grunge/zeppelin infleunce, Shackler's is more metal. I like the crispness of what Bucket did with the rage engineer/producers - Shackler's, Scraped, even Sorry seem to come from that time? That stuff is more upfront, first time listen.

BUT some of the stuff like Catcher, TWAT, IRS really adds longevity to the record, it's no immeadiate hit single obvious but it gives the album weight. It might just throw some people off who just want a no brainer, party album type of thing. Like I said once you get into those tracks, it's pleasure to delve into them.

There's more that was added to me, than was lost, Bumble added great stuff, even on Better I think those little bits made the song complete. It's what takes the demos from UYI to CD. Like Chi Dem is basically blistering, they did it, they actually delivered something new yet it was still GNR. They took those risks, maybe some didn't come off but without them you'd have a very flat album which wasn't something different for GNR but also wouldn't resonate with what's happening now.

I get that some people want GNR to be the saviours of classic rock, like they would always do natural blues based stuff like a 70s band, it didn't happen but it's still great album, still GNR, against all the odds.

It does open the door to a lot of possibilities also, there's pontential once they've stepped outside the punk rock/classic rock hybrid. You get more basic renditions live, like Better live kicks ass.

In the end it's not our band, and if we don't like we can go fuck ourselves?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

It does not even have to be stripped down. I just think the leaks were perfect, and adding that extra layer IMO was just overkill.

When I said I wanted the songs more raw, I am taking about all the songs should have been more mixed like SR, sorry and rhiad. I dont like the new rhiad solo but at least they fit it in there.

The probably with Cd is there are so many layers of fluff players like Tommys bass are almost non hearable because of it on most songs.

The leaks had the perfect amount of fluff, but the album versions on most songs were over kill.

See, that's where I disagree, "most of the songs" weren't overkill? CD, Shackler's, ITW, TWAT, Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute are all basically perfect.

I like SOD more than The Blues, like how it punches that kind of song into the modern era. others don't the prefer the camp

Better - most people love it?

Catcher - quite a few people talk about demo, I like album version more, great on a stereo.

IRS - it's hard to say, I think live it comes into it's own on the album version it's more Zeppelinesque, it's like getting that angry in your own house is just wrong, so I enjoy the keyboard bits, it's really just a rant.

I think the difference is that some songs like IRS/Better/TWAT have a grunge/zeppelin infleunce, Shackler's is more metal. I like the crispness of what Bucket did with the rage engineer/producers - Shackler's, Scraped, even Sorry seem to come from that time? That stuff is more upfront, first time listen.

BUT some of the stuff like Catcher, TWAT, IRS really adds longevity to the record, it's no immeadiate hit single obvious but it gives the album weight. It might just throw some people off who just want a no brainer, party album type of thing. Like I said once you get into those tracks, it's pleasure to delve into them.

There's more that was added to me, than was lost, Bumble added great stuff, even on Better I think those little bits made the song complete. It's what takes the demos from UYI to CD. Like Chi Dem is basically blistering, they did it, they actually delivered something new yet it was still GNR. They took those risks, maybe some didn't come off but without them you'd have a very flat album which wasn't something different for GNR but also wouldn't resonate with what's happening now.

I get that some people want GNR to be the saviours of classic rock, like they would always do natural blues based stuff like a 70s band, it didn't happen but it's still great album, still GNR, against all the odds.

It does open the door to a lot of possibilities also, there's pontential once they've stepped outside the punk rock/classic rock hybrid. You get more basic renditions live, like Better live kicks ass.

In the end it's not our band, and if we don't like we can go fuck ourselves?

I dont know.

I think the 2002 version of the blues is the best, with that real guitar opening, that cool flute sound, and brains in your face drumming.

IMO the blues went from a scom type song to a bon jovi song which is really too bad.

Madagascar the best solo is the RIR3 version not sure why that was not used on the album. I wonder why Axl went with the vocal style he did, I still think his clean voice suits the song very well.

IRS I agree the live version is best. I dont care for the album version or the leaks. But live the song shines.

CD, the HOB version is amazing, I thought even the leak was great. Rons "dirty" guitar just feel out of place, maybe if they were better mixed in the song I would not mind so much, and I think its as joke they let Frank redo all of Brains great drumming on that song.

This I love is perfect, and I still dont know what Ron did on that. Robin does the solos, the only other guitar is that strum here and there. Why even bother esp when i am sure the harp was strumming on that part instead.

I talked to Patty Hood a lot, and she said they really toned down the harp in the song. She also said when she worked on the song BH did the solo. So I wonder how that version of the song is.

The only problem with scraped I have are some of the vocals. Some of them he sounds bad but most he uses his clean voice. He sounds like his voice is going to give out on parts, and that is odd since he clearly cut and pasted his vocals together.

TWAT is fine, i thought it was great before, but Rons additions dont bother me as much as on other songs.

And again with Better I still like the 2006 version the most. It was really in your face but the final just seems like a mess now with all tht is going on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

It does not even have to be stripped down. I just think the leaks were perfect, and adding that extra layer IMO was just overkill.

When I said I wanted the songs more raw, I am taking about all the songs should have been more mixed like SR, sorry and rhiad. I dont like the new rhiad solo but at least they fit it in there.

The probably with Cd is there are so many layers of fluff players like Tommys bass are almost non hearable because of it on most songs.

The leaks had the perfect amount of fluff, but the album versions on most songs were over kill.

See, that's where I disagree, "most of the songs" weren't overkill? CD, Shackler's, ITW, TWAT, Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute are all basically perfect.

I like SOD more than The Blues, like how it punches that kind of song into the modern era. others don't the prefer the camp

Better - most people love it?

Catcher - quite a few people talk about demo, I like album version more, great on a stereo.

IRS - it's hard to say, I think live it comes into it's own on the album version it's more Zeppelinesque, it's like getting that angry in your own house is just wrong, so I enjoy the keyboard bits, it's really just a rant.

I think the difference is that some songs like IRS/Better/TWAT have a grunge/zeppelin infleunce, Shackler's is more metal. I like the crispness of what Bucket did with the rage engineer/producers - Shackler's, Scraped, even Sorry seem to come from that time? That stuff is more upfront, first time listen.

BUT some of the stuff like Catcher, TWAT, IRS really adds longevity to the record, it's no immeadiate hit single obvious but it gives the album weight. It might just throw some people off who just want a no brainer, party album type of thing. Like I said once you get into those tracks, it's pleasure to delve into them.

There's more that was added to me, than was lost, Bumble added great stuff, even on Better I think those little bits made the song complete. It's what takes the demos from UYI to CD. Like Chi Dem is basically blistering, they did it, they actually delivered something new yet it was still GNR. They took those risks, maybe some didn't come off but without them you'd have a very flat album which wasn't something different for GNR but also wouldn't resonate with what's happening now.

I get that some people want GNR to be the saviours of classic rock, like they would always do natural blues based stuff like a 70s band, it didn't happen but it's still great album, still GNR, against all the odds.

It does open the door to a lot of possibilities also, there's pontential once they've stepped outside the punk rock/classic rock hybrid. You get more basic renditions live, like Better live kicks ass.

In the end it's not our band, and if we don't like we can go fuck ourselves?

I dont know.

I think the 2002 version of the blues is the best, with that real guitar opening, that cool flute sound, and brains in your face drumming.

IMO the blues went from a scom type song to a bon jovi song which is really too bad.

Madagascar the best solo is the RIR3 version not sure why that was not used on the album. I wonder why Axl went with the vocal style he did, I still think his clean voice suits the song very well.

IRS I agree the live version is best. I dont care for the album version or the leaks. But live the song shines.

CD, the HOB version is amazing, I thought even the leak was great. Rons "dirty" guitar just feel out of place, maybe if they were better mixed in the song I would not mind so much, and I think its as joke they let Frank redo all of Brains great drumming on that song.

This I love is perfect, and I still dont know what Ron did on that. Robin does the solos, the only other guitar is that strum here and there. Why even bother esp when i am sure the harp was strumming on that part instead.

I talked to Patty Hood a lot, and she said they really toned down the harp in the song. She also said when she worked on the song BH did the solo. So I wonder how that version of the song is.

The only problem with scraped I have are some of the vocals. Some of them he sounds bad but most he uses his clean voice. He sounds like his voice is going to give out on parts, and that is odd since he clearly cut and pasted his vocals together.

TWAT is fine, i thought it was great before, but Rons additions dont bother me as much as on other songs.

And again with Better I still like the 2006 version the most. It was really in your face but the final just seems like a mess now with all tht is going on.

my guess is that the final work was done to make CD a really now album, to give it a more metalcore feel, i dont really know the terms those bands but that seemed to have an infleunce.

It seems like they cut out the gothy synths, and took it more in an agressive direction all over. giving SOD a more aggresive edge, than just the more broken down vibe of The Blues. No real right answers. I think for the record it works, for it to be more pissed off. Like when Axl hits the stage to CD now he's fucking pissed, whereas on earlier versions it was a bit more gothically cocky. Like losing the harp, its like that seemed to overblown on the final analysis? in the context of the whole album.

All the songs get reworked again live, like all the new versions of all the old stuff from AFD to UYI. I mean Heaven's Door was virtually reggae version when I saw it. I like how this band respects the past and keeps CD material in line with it, while still playing in their styles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

It does not even have to be stripped down. I just think the leaks were perfect, and adding that extra layer IMO was just overkill.

When I said I wanted the songs more raw, I am taking about all the songs should have been more mixed like SR, sorry and rhiad. I dont like the new rhiad solo but at least they fit it in there.

The probably with Cd is there are so many layers of fluff players like Tommys bass are almost non hearable because of it on most songs.

The leaks had the perfect amount of fluff, but the album versions on most songs were over kill.

See, that's where I disagree, "most of the songs" weren't overkill? CD, Shackler's, ITW, TWAT, Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute are all basically perfect.

I like SOD more than The Blues, like how it punches that kind of song into the modern era. others don't the prefer the camp

Better - most people love it?

Catcher - quite a few people talk about demo, I like album version more, great on a stereo.

IRS - it's hard to say, I think live it comes into it's own on the album version it's more Zeppelinesque, it's like getting that angry in your own house is just wrong, so I enjoy the keyboard bits, it's really just a rant.

I think the difference is that some songs like IRS/Better/TWAT have a grunge/zeppelin infleunce, Shackler's is more metal. I like the crispness of what Bucket did with the rage engineer/producers - Shackler's, Scraped, even Sorry seem to come from that time? That stuff is more upfront, first time listen.

BUT some of the stuff like Catcher, TWAT, IRS really adds longevity to the record, it's no immeadiate hit single obvious but it gives the album weight. It might just throw some people off who just want a no brainer, party album type of thing. Like I said once you get into those tracks, it's pleasure to delve into them.

There's more that was added to me, than was lost, Bumble added great stuff, even on Better I think those little bits made the song complete. It's what takes the demos from UYI to CD. Like Chi Dem is basically blistering, they did it, they actually delivered something new yet it was still GNR. They took those risks, maybe some didn't come off but without them you'd have a very flat album which wasn't something different for GNR but also wouldn't resonate with what's happening now.

I get that some people want GNR to be the saviours of classic rock, like they would always do natural blues based stuff like a 70s band, it didn't happen but it's still great album, still GNR, against all the odds.

It does open the door to a lot of possibilities also, there's pontential once they've stepped outside the punk rock/classic rock hybrid. You get more basic renditions live, like Better live kicks ass.

In the end it's not our band, and if we don't like we can go fuck ourselves?

I dont know.

I think the 2002 version of the blues is the best, with that real guitar opening, that cool flute sound, and brains in your face drumming.

IMO the blues went from a scom type song to a bon jovi song which is really too bad.

Madagascar the best solo is the RIR3 version not sure why that was not used on the album. I wonder why Axl went with the vocal style he did, I still think his clean voice suits the song very well.

IRS I agree the live version is best. I dont care for the album version or the leaks. But live the song shines.

CD, the HOB version is amazing, I thought even the leak was great. Rons "dirty" guitar just feel out of place, maybe if they were better mixed in the song I would not mind so much, and I think its as joke they let Frank redo all of Brains great drumming on that song.

This I love is perfect, and I still dont know what Ron did on that. Robin does the solos, the only other guitar is that strum here and there. Why even bother esp when i am sure the harp was strumming on that part instead.

I talked to Patty Hood a lot, and she said they really toned down the harp in the song. She also said when she worked on the song BH did the solo. So I wonder how that version of the song is.

The only problem with scraped I have are some of the vocals. Some of them he sounds bad but most he uses his clean voice. He sounds like his voice is going to give out on parts, and that is odd since he clearly cut and pasted his vocals together.

TWAT is fine, i thought it was great before, but Rons additions dont bother me as much as on other songs.

And again with Better I still like the 2006 version the most. It was really in your face but the final just seems like a mess now with all tht is going on.

my guess is that the final work was done to make CD a really now album, to give it a more metalcore feel, i dont really know the terms those bands but that seemed to have an infleunce.

It seems like they cut out the gothy synths, and took it more in an agressive direction all over. giving SOD a more aggresive edge, than just the more broken down vibe of The Blues. No real right answers. I think for the record it works, for it to be more pissed off. Like when Axl hits the stage to CD now he's fucking pissed, whereas on earlier versions it was a bit more gothically cocky. Like losing the harp, its like that seemed to overblown on the final analysis? in the context of the whole album.

All the songs get reworked again live, like all the new versions of all the old stuff from AFD to UYI. I mean Heaven's Door was virtually reggae version when I saw it. I like how this band respects the past and keeps CD material in line with it, while still playing in their styles.

Honestly IMO I think the final work was just to get Ron and Frank on the album. I believe if BH and Brain never left, those skewl leaks would have been the album cuts but the album versions would have just been mastered.

I HATE the if the world album cut because a lot of that great acoustic guitar is lost because Ron added his parts and the synth was turned way too high

Edited by gnr-dave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of like the drum fills. It might be overly complex for a single if it ever was, maybe the main verses drive glide well enough.

SOD - I feel like it's fine, it's got a more metallic finish than The Blues, it seems like a proper GNR single, brawny, emotional, flashy, grand.

There sounds like 2 albums on CD. The really tight stuff they did later with RATM guy and the more illusion era songs which sort of beg for a more toned down approach but in the end I think they pulled it off mixing to two. It's only if you want UYI production, you are more of a purist. In a way it's good that CD is slightly different, it's a risk worth taking, it might even be the risk they had to take. Comparing ITW and Madagascar, Scraped with Better - seems so show different recording techniques. Catcher they seem to have gone for more natural approach but ramped up the wall of noise, Sorry seem to come from the same womb. The album reflects back and forth across it, it's not completely uniform or predictable but there enough constants to hold it together.

At least the techniques were applied across the board, there's guitar bursts on every song, little flourishes, vocals are pretty much in the same place, similar tone, guitar solos have a techno edge to them, drums are pretty nice, pounding on TWAT and SOD. Given the scope of it, it's pretty cohesive.

Some people will just want a more stripped down UYI type treatment. but that's been done imo, they went for something else...

It does not even have to be stripped down. I just think the leaks were perfect, and adding that extra layer IMO was just overkill.

When I said I wanted the songs more raw, I am taking about all the songs should have been more mixed like SR, sorry and rhiad. I dont like the new rhiad solo but at least they fit it in there.

The probably with Cd is there are so many layers of fluff players like Tommys bass are almost non hearable because of it on most songs.

The leaks had the perfect amount of fluff, but the album versions on most songs were over kill.

See, that's where I disagree, "most of the songs" weren't overkill? CD, Shackler's, ITW, TWAT, Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute are all basically perfect.

I like SOD more than The Blues, like how it punches that kind of song into the modern era. others don't the prefer the camp

Better - most people love it?

Catcher - quite a few people talk about demo, I like album version more, great on a stereo.

IRS - it's hard to say, I think live it comes into it's own on the album version it's more Zeppelinesque, it's like getting that angry in your own house is just wrong, so I enjoy the keyboard bits, it's really just a rant.

I think the difference is that some songs like IRS/Better/TWAT have a grunge/zeppelin infleunce, Shackler's is more metal. I like the crispness of what Bucket did with the rage engineer/producers - Shackler's, Scraped, even Sorry seem to come from that time? That stuff is more upfront, first time listen.

BUT some of the stuff like Catcher, TWAT, IRS really adds longevity to the record, it's no immeadiate hit single obvious but it gives the album weight. It might just throw some people off who just want a no brainer, party album type of thing. Like I said once you get into those tracks, it's pleasure to delve into them.

There's more that was added to me, than was lost, Bumble added great stuff, even on Better I think those little bits made the song complete. It's what takes the demos from UYI to CD. Like Chi Dem is basically blistering, they did it, they actually delivered something new yet it was still GNR. They took those risks, maybe some didn't come off but without them you'd have a very flat album which wasn't something different for GNR but also wouldn't resonate with what's happening now.

I get that some people want GNR to be the saviours of classic rock, like they would always do natural blues based stuff like a 70s band, it didn't happen but it's still great album, still GNR, against all the odds.

It does open the door to a lot of possibilities also, there's pontential once they've stepped outside the punk rock/classic rock hybrid. You get more basic renditions live, like Better live kicks ass.

In the end it's not our band, and if we don't like we can go fuck ourselves?

I dont know.

I think the 2002 version of the blues is the best, with that real guitar opening, that cool flute sound, and brains in your face drumming.

IMO the blues went from a scom type song to a bon jovi song which is really too bad.

Madagascar the best solo is the RIR3 version not sure why that was not used on the album. I wonder why Axl went with the vocal style he did, I still think his clean voice suits the song very well.

IRS I agree the live version is best. I dont care for the album version or the leaks. But live the song shines.

CD, the HOB version is amazing, I thought even the leak was great. Rons "dirty" guitar just feel out of place, maybe if they were better mixed in the song I would not mind so much, and I think its as joke they let Frank redo all of Brains great drumming on that song.

This I love is perfect, and I still dont know what Ron did on that. Robin does the solos, the only other guitar is that strum here and there. Why even bother esp when i am sure the harp was strumming on that part instead.

I talked to Patty Hood a lot, and she said they really toned down the harp in the song. She also said when she worked on the song BH did the solo. So I wonder how that version of the song is.

The only problem with scraped I have are some of the vocals. Some of them he sounds bad but most he uses his clean voice. He sounds like his voice is going to give out on parts, and that is odd since he clearly cut and pasted his vocals together.

TWAT is fine, i thought it was great before, but Rons additions dont bother me as much as on other songs.

And again with Better I still like the 2006 version the most. It was really in your face but the final just seems like a mess now with all tht is going on.

my guess is that the final work was done to make CD a really now album, to give it a more metalcore feel, i dont really know the terms those bands but that seemed to have an infleunce.

It seems like they cut out the gothy synths, and took it more in an agressive direction all over. giving SOD a more aggresive edge, than just the more broken down vibe of The Blues. No real right answers. I think for the record it works, for it to be more pissed off. Like when Axl hits the stage to CD now he's fucking pissed, whereas on earlier versions it was a bit more gothically cocky. Like losing the harp, its like that seemed to overblown on the final analysis? in the context of the whole album.

All the songs get reworked again live, like all the new versions of all the old stuff from AFD to UYI. I mean Heaven's Door was virtually reggae version when I saw it. I like how this band respects the past and keeps CD material in line with it, while still playing in their styles.

Honestly IMO I think the final work was just to get Ron and Frank on the album. I believe if BH and Brain never left, those skewl leaks would have been the album cuts but the album versions would have just been mastered.

I HATE the if the world album cut because a lot of that great acoustic guitar is lost because Ron added his parts and the synth was turned way too high

I think a lot of decisions made outside of Ron/Frank seem to point to a more metal final album?

I'm the other way, Ron's ITW parts, if that's him, were the sickest thing on CD on first listen. I literally shit my pants. For that he'll forever be GNR. Ron is one James Bond bad ass motherfucker.

Also, I think we over look the influence of Eminem. The brassiness of the production is Marshal Mathers, it has that 3D surround sound thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What parts do you think are Rons on IFW?

The leaked version did not have him on it, then he added his few parts. I compared guitars on both songs and there are parts where you can hear where they pasted Rons guitars over BHs, because on some parts you can hear the tail end of BHs old part.

Ron did fine on IFW my bigger problem is the synth was way too high and drowned out the acoustic guitar which was killer. And that part in the middle with the la la la, is annoying on the album.

It was much better when it didnt go around your head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the guitar in the background? it's probably bucket lol

what I learned from seeing Dj step up and do SCOM at his first show in Taipei is that nobody either knows or cares who plays what as long as they hear the song. There was absolutely no relationship built up with Taiwan fans, and book Ballad of Death/SCOM.

Same with Shackler's same show, great reception. It's kind of a Bucket song? nobody cared. Better crowd goes wild.

I just think it's the songs, not who's playing them. There's no definitive version of a song, did they ever really nail You're Crazy? still great song.

For a band like GNR it's the tunes, not who's playing them. it has to be because after so many lineup changes the crowd is still there loving it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...