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Is Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal a Prodigy?


TheFormerSoul

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Bucket is much more talented than Ron , Eletric Tears alone is better than all the Bumble albuns. :thumbsup:

I bet that most of you talking can't even play guitar or at least not at the level of Ron and Bucket! And yet you're talking! "Yeah man, Bucket is more talented he goes faster, he shreds faster, that Bumble guy is so slow man". Some of you guys are killing me :rofl-lol:

I'm not that great of a guitarist, I work on it everyday, but I know for fact that Ron Thal and Buckethead are both fucking awesome, go fast as fuck and then it's only a matter of preference between Ron's compositions and Buckethead's. I love them both. Both prodigy, both amazing. Maybe advantage to Ron for being so nice to his fans.

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Ron is more talented than Slash overall because of his singing and songwriting skills.

Normal is a great album.

Anyone can "write a song". I can write a song, as a matter of fact, I'm sitting on an entire ALBUM. But only good song writers can write hits. I always take the Beatles route when discussing things of this nature. They fucking "got it". They knew how to make a song that people wanted to hear. That takes the most talent, because it's not something you can teach.

Slash is by FAR the better song writer, in both solos and songs using the Beatles scale. It's not even close. As a matter of fact, it's fucking LAUGHABLE to even put those two together in the same sentence.

If he was, he'd be famous for something other then Guns N Roses...he is not, there for he isn't.

What is the logic that being "famous" = prodigy?

I'm not saying if he is or isn't....but definition of prodigy is subjective, no?

No...

Edited by Nintari
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Ron is more talented than Slash overall because of his singing and songwriting skills.

Normal is a great album.

Anyone can "write a song". I can write a song, as a matter of fact, I'm sitting on an entire ALBUM. But only good song writers can write hits. I always take the Beatles route when discussing things of this nature. They fucking "got it". They knew how to make a song that people wanted to hear. That takes the most talent, because it's not something you can teach.

Slash is by FAR the better song writer, in both solos and songs using the Beatles scale. It's not even close. As a matter of fact, it's fucking LAUGHABLE to even put those two together in the same sentence.

If he was, he'd be famous for something other then Guns N Roses...he is not, there for he isn't.

What is the logic that being "famous" = prodigy?

I'm not saying if he is or isn't....but definition of prodigy is subjective, no?

No...

But whether a song is good or not is entirely subjective. Music isn't a democracy, and critical acclaim is no measure of musical skill, AC/DC have sold shitloads more records than Guns N Roses, does that mean they're better and that all GNR fans must concede this point?

What we're debating here is Ron Thal's skill as a musician and on that score there can be no doubt he knows more than anyone else who has played in Guns N Roses before and since.

Buckethead's playing is nice, yes. He certainly plays with a lot of soul, but he does have trademark phrases and runs that when you listen to one of his compositions, you can tell it's him. Ron has a grasp of music from Pythagoras upwards that I certainly won't ever have.This means his compositions range from neoclassicalism to hard rock, and it's not just a jack of all trades kind of thing, it's a mastery... If writing a catchy tune that makes a hit somehow makes you a better musician, let's stick the Bay City Rollers and Nicola Benedetti in a room and see who ends up playing circles around whom.

Also, about Ron "only being able to play fast" That's fucking bullshit, any guitarist with two brain cells will be able to tell you that in order to play something fast, you have to be able to play it slow.

Fucking watch that, and if you tell me that Ron can't play slowly, with soul then you're a fucking liar, plain and simple. Watch that and see how he's able to make out the perfect frequencies at speed without the guidance of frets. Also the whole concept of using the thimble. That's what it is to be a musical prodigy, not writing fucking "Bye Bye Baby." Because "bedroom shredders" or whatever were Ron's main fanbase prior to joining GNR doesn't mean that what he can play musically wasn't leagues above what was filling the charts...

i don't "hate" Bucket, I love his music, stuff like "Whitewash" "Electric Tears" "Big Sur Moon" etc. are all great compositions, it just irritates me when people state he's better as a fact when he's not. because you like the sound of what he plays more it does not make his technique better, opinion does not, through osmosis make a guitarists hands capable of doing more.

My favourite guitarist is Malcolm Jones. Whom none of you will have heard of, (If you want a taste of his amazing music have a look at

) I love his sense of melody, the passion with which he plays and his overall tone, but I'm willing to accept that he's nowehere near as musically competent as Ron Thal is. Because Ron's just on a different level, and it's all very well to bitch about it on a forum, but I bet if any of the naysayers on here were to confront him one on one about it and he had a guitar, he could prove any one of you wrong without breaking sweat.
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Ron is more talented than Slash overall because of his singing and songwriting skills.

Normal is a great album.

Anyone can "write a song". I can write a song, as a matter of fact, I'm sitting on an entire ALBUM. But only good song writers can write hits. I always take the Beatles route when discussing things of this nature. They fucking "got it". They knew how to make a song that people wanted to hear. That takes the most talent, because it's not something you can teach.

Slash is by FAR the better song writer, in both solos and songs using the Beatles scale. It's not even close. As a matter of fact, it's fucking LAUGHABLE to even put those two together in the same sentence.

If he was, he'd be famous for something other then Guns N Roses...he is not, there for he isn't.

What is the logic that being "famous" = prodigy?

I'm not saying if he is or isn't....but definition of prodigy is subjective, no?

No...

But whether a song is good or not is entirely subjective. Music isn't a democracy, and critical acclaim is no measure of musical skill, AC/DC have sold shitloads more records than Guns N Roses, does that mean they're better and that all GNR fans must concede this point?

What we're debating here is Ron Thal's skill as a musician and on that score there can be no doubt he knows more than anyone else who has played in Guns N Roses before and since.

Buckethead's playing is nice, yes. He certainly plays with a lot of soul, but he does have trademark phrases and runs that when you listen to one of his compositions, you can tell it's him. Ron has a grasp of music from Pythagoras upwards that I certainly won't ever have.This means his compositions range from neoclassicalism to hard rock, and it's not just a jack of all trades kind of thing, it's a mastery... If writing a catchy tune that makes a hit somehow makes you a better musician, let's stick the Bay City Rollers and Nicola Benedetti in a room and see who ends up playing circles around whom.

Also, about Ron "only being able to play fast" That's fucking bullshit, any guitarist with two brain cells will be able to tell you that in order to play something fast, you have to be able to play it slow.

Fucking watch that, and if you tell me that Ron can't play slowly, with soul then you're a fucking liar, plain and simple. Watch that and see how he's able to make out the perfect frequencies at speed without the guidance of frets. Also the whole concept of using the thimble. That's what it is to be a musical prodigy, not writing fucking "Bye Bye Baby." Because "bedroom shredders" or whatever were Ron's main fanbase prior to joining GNR doesn't mean that what he can play musically wasn't leagues above what was filling the charts...

i don't "hate" Bucket, I love his music, stuff like "Whitewash" "Electric Tears" "Big Sur Moon" etc. are all great compositions, it just irritates me when people state he's better as a fact when he's not. because you like the sound of what he plays more it does not make his technique better, opinion does not, through osmosis make a guitarists hands capable of doing more.

My favourite guitarist is Malcolm Jones. Whom none of you will have heard of, (If you want a taste of his amazing music have a look at

) I love his sense of melody, the passion with which he plays and his overall tone, but I'm willing to accept that he's nowehere near as musically competent as Ron Thal is. Because Ron's just on a different level, and it's all very well to bitch about it on a forum, but I bet if any of the naysayers on here were to confront him one on one about it and he had a guitar, he could prove any one of you wrong without breaking sweat.

This, might be the most intelligent post without unnessecary criticism. As a musician Ron is far beyond any other gnr member as far as knowledge and pure mental power to be able to do the things he does. He is also a really great person.

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Bucket is much more talented than Ron , Eletric Tears alone is better than all the Bumble albuns. :thumbsup:

I bet that most of you talking can't even play guitar or at least not at the level of Ron and Bucket! And yet you're talking! "Yeah man, Bucket is more talented he goes faster, he shreds faster, that Bumble guy is so slow man". Some of you guys are killing me :rofl-lol:

I'm not that great of a guitarist, I work on it everyday, but I know for fact that Ron Thal and Buckethead are both fucking awesome, go fast as fuck and then it's only a matter of preference between Ron's compositions and Buckethead's. I love them both. Both prodigy, both amazing. Maybe advantage to Ron for being so nice to his fans.

When i said any of that, any of this nonsense ?!

Dont qoute me for that. :thumbsup:

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No he is not

Do explain.

Do you really want me to go there, I dont want to make all the Ron lovers cry again.

Here is an example.

Any prodigy should be able to play a simple soulful KOHD solo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3bDJ61x-28

Ron cant even do that. There is a reason why Axl took it away from him and gave it to DJ.

Ron can play superfast sure, but he cannot play clean or melodic.

That is why he is not a prodigy.

What makes him a prodigy exactly?

:lol:

Because he doesn't play the solo slowly, it's not clean or melodic? I like the solo. Other people like the solo. Just because you don't doesn't mean it's bad. You don't have to play slowly to play soulfully.

I'm glad you know that it was Axl that said who gets to play the solo now. Did you see an interview or something that the rest of us missed? From what I gather, it's the guitarists themselves who generally decide who gets to play which solos.

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A prodigy?... probably not. A guitar virtuoso? Sure. He is in the same space as Paul Gilbert, Joe Satriani, Buckethead, Marty Friedman etc. Although for me his music isn't near as good as Buckethead(or the previously mentioned names). He surely has the skill and his own style, but to me his note selection, timing, style etc is just fast noise. He can slow it down for sure, but he doesn't do it often enough, not saying he can't, but he doesn't.

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Ron is more talented than Slash overall because of his singing and songwriting skills.

Normal is a great album.

Well, Slash is a better on BMX bikes. And he can draw better... :rofl-lol:

Ron is good, but far from a prodigy. Do you even know what a prodigy is??

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Ron is more talented than Slash overall because of his singing and songwriting skills.

Normal is a great album.

Well, Slash is a better on BMX bikes. And he can draw better... :rofl-lol:

Ron is good, but far from a prodigy. Do you even know what a prodigy is??

a person, esp. a child or young person, having extraordinary talent or ability: a musical prodigy.

Correct me if i am wrong but couldnt BBF play Eruption backwards at age 10 or something like that? If so then yes i think that classifies him as a prodigy/

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My opinion is that Buckethead has a definitely better tone and his playing is way more melodic but, when I take a look at his discography, I see 70% of fillers.

I mean I like listening to Bucketheadland 2 and I find his universe to be really entertaining but the truth is that a lot of his recordings is just him playing catchy riffs over drum loops...

He has interesting stuff like Cuckoo clocks from hell or the cool collaborations like the Chicken & Noodles one and I really like stuff like Population Override, Electric Tears and Colma...but the problem is that I can't point to a favourite Buckethead album because half of the albums I like are...just him playing riffs over drum beats...

And his playing is really, REALLY full of patterns that he constantly uses.

Bumblefoot's playing might not be as catchy as Bucket's and his tone is kinda meh sometimes but :

-he knows great theory, he is the exact opposite of a pattern guitarist

-if you're into technique, BBF is where it's at, is stuff is way more technical than Bucket's

-He experiments a lot more than the Bucket ( fretless, micro tonal music, thimble etc... )

-He's a great singer...Don't listen to Normal/Abnormal, give UncoOL a try and then come back and dare say that he can't sing...

-His discography is 0% filler to me, I LOVE everything that he ever put out and, as I said, if you're into composing and music theory, BBF is a far superior musician. Just listen to his instrumental stuff, it's very intersting as long as you don't label "noise" everything that isn't pentatonic

So to sum up, here is my opinion of those two prodigies...

-Bucket is way more melodical and has a better tone, but half of his discography is just him playing riffs over drum loops...

-BBF is more technical and is a better composer if you're into music theory

Yes, Bucket's style fits more into a mainstream rock band but BBF has the ability to change his style more, which is why he sounds the way he sounds on this tour.

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Ron definitely added parts to CD that made the songs about 10 times better.

He made them 10x worse since the parts he added didnt even fit the song, not to mention he ruined the CITR solo

And how do you know that he didnt rerecord your beloved Buckethead's solo that was already butchered?

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Ron definitely added parts to CD that made the songs about 10 times better.

He made them 10x worse since the parts he added didnt even fit the song, not to mention he ruined the CITR solo

And how do you know that he didnt rerecord your beloved Buckethead's solo that was already butchered?

Because from BHs track record he never butchered anything like Ron does.

Just look at Rons riad solo, vs BHs, BHs is way better.

Rons solo doesnt even fit the song. If Ron wasnt in gnr most of you wouldnt be making these claims.

Its just because he has gnr attatched to his name you all think he is a prodigy.

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My opinion is that Buckethead has a definitely better tone and his playing is way more melodic but, when I take a look at his discography, I see 70% of fillers.

I mean I like listening to Bucketheadland 2 and I find his universe to be really entertaining but the truth is that a lot of his recordings is just him playing catchy riffs over drum loops...

He has interesting stuff like Cuckoo clocks from hell or the cool collaborations like the Chicken & Noodles one and I really like stuff like Population Override, Electric Tears and Colma...but the problem is that I can't point to a favourite Buckethead album because half of the albums I like are...just him playing riffs over drum beats...

And his playing is really, REALLY full of patterns that he constantly uses.

Bumblefoot's playing might not be as catchy as Bucket's and his tone is kinda meh sometimes but :

-he knows great theory, he is the exact opposite of a pattern guitarist

-if you're into technique, BBF is where it's at, is stuff is way more technical than Bucket's

-He experiments a lot more than the Bucket ( fretless, micro tonal music, thimble etc... )

-He's a great singer...Don't listen to Normal/Abnormal, give UncoOL a try and then come back and dare say that he can't sing...

-His discography is 0% filler to me, I LOVE everything that he ever put out and, as I said, if you're into composing and music theory, BBF is a far superior musician. Just listen to his instrumental stuff, it's very intersting as long as you don't label "noise" everything that isn't pentatonic

So to sum up, here is my opinion of those two prodigies...

-Bucket is way more melodical and has a better tone, but half of his discography is just him playing riffs over drum loops...

-BBF is more technical and is a better composer if you're into music theory

Yes, Bucket's style fits more into a mainstream rock band but BBF has the ability to change his style more, which is why he sounds the way he sounds on this tour.

Umm correct me if im wrong, but isn't all rock/metal music "playing riffs over drum loops"??? Bucket uses real drums in some songs, and loops in others, but ultimately thats what rock/metal music is!. What are they going to do, not play riffs over drum beats? Sorry but you failed in your argument there. Look at Megadeth or Metallica, all their songs are based on a riff, with a drum beat and bass behind it.

Ron uses a thimble? Big whoop., Bucket uses a killswitch, why didn't you bring that up? Id say that cancels that positive out. He does use a fretless(which Bucket doesn't really) which does allow for micro tone notes, but that doesn't really make him the better guitarist to me.

Your mentioning of labeling anything outside of the Pentatonic scale(5 note blues scale) noise is kind of wrong too. We don't consider harmonic minor, melodic minor or diminished scales as noise. We consider playing notes at a million miles a second while doing 10 divebombs followed by 10 pinch harmonic bends noise. Guitar wank would be a better term for what BBF does. Bucket can do that too, but limits it. Chris Broderick uses all the scales mentioned plus more and plays fast but his solos never sound like he is just making unorthodox sounds out of his guitar.

You say Bucket is a pattern guitatist and playing riffs over drums(whatever that means), but BBF basically just sweeps alot, slides around really fast, does a whole lot of whammy tricks. Most of his solos(not all) are pure wank. Listen to Shackler's Revenge, or the Rhiad solo. Both go absolutely no where, tell no story, have zero emotion, not catchy at all and never ever make you think "wow".

Again this is just my opinion, but i wanted to bring in some points to the discussion.

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He is not a prodigy, Beethoven is.

Bumble is a skilled technical guitarist and advanced in music theory...just like 10,000 other guitarists. You practice enough (10 hours a day for years non-stop), you will be there too. You need commitment, discipline and no social life.

The only difference between Bumble and the thousands of other guitarists who are as skilled as him on guitar, is that Bumble met the right people at the right time. Contacts is everything.

Example: if he didn't get in contact with Satriani because Satriani was mis-quoted by a magazine which Bumble happened to read (where Satriani said insulting things about Bumble's playing) and Bumble didn't go after it, asking Satriani about it, then Satriani would never have told Axl to try Bumble, as a make up for the mis-quote and he would now still be giving guitar demonstrations in front of 60 balding guitar nerds tops in Paris (which was the only place he was a bit known by guitar nerds).

So Bumble is in GnR thanks to a magazine screwing up a quote by Satriani.

This also goes for Slash, Buckethead, Lady Gaga...it's the contacts that get you under the public's eye and then the PR machine promotes you in a certain way. And the so called fans buy it and spread the PR further with threads like "Is my idol that I worship every day a Prodigy".

Of course you need talent first, you have to have something they need to sell....but there are literally millions of talented people. The contact (the word itself has that meaning) gets you connected.

Also, if Bumble had been a jackass in interviews, everyone here would say he needs to go away. But because he is a nice guy, he can stay, even though his playing is hollow, pretentious and his guitar tone is laughable at best (Satriani's original words btw before 'correcting' himself).

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He is not a prodigy, Beethoven is.

Bumble is a skilled technical guitarist and advanced in music theory...just like 10,000 other guitarists. You practice enough (10 hours a day for years non-stop), you will be there too. You need commitment, discipline and no social life.

The only difference between Bumble and the thousands of other guitarists who are as skilled as him on guitar, is that Bumble met the right people at the right time. Contacts is everything.

Example: if he didn't get in contact with Satriani because Satriani was mis-quoted by a magazine which Bumble happened to read (where Satriani said insulting things about Bumble's playing) and Bumble didn't go after it, asking Satriani about it, then Satriani would never have told Axl to try Bumble, as a make up for the mis-quote and he would now still be giving guitar demonstrations in front of 60 balding guitar nerds tops in Paris (which was the only place he was a bit known by guitar nerds).

So Bumble is in GnR thanks to a magazine screwing up a quote by Satriani.

This also goes for Slash, Buckethead, Lady Gaga...it's the contacts that get you under the public's eye and then the PR machine promotes you in a certain way. And the so called fans buy it and spread the PR further with threads like "Is my idol that I worship every day a Prodigy".

Of course you need talent first, you have to have something they need to sell....but there are literally millions of talented people. The contact (the word itself has that meaning) gets you connected.

Also, if Bumble had been a jackass in interviews, everyone here would say he needs to go away. But because he is a nice guy, he can stay, even though his playing is hollow, pretentious and his guitar tone is laughable at best (Satriani's original words btw before 'correcting' himself).

Exactly, if BH was a nice guy and didn't wear a mask, and BBF was the one who were a mask, none of these people claiming BBF is better would think that.

The only reason people on this board think BBF is better because he looks normal.

If you were to have BH and BBF cover the same thing, but not tell everyone who it is, most would pick the BH version because they cant see who is actually playing.

Its just like Robin Finck in 2002 vs 2006. Most people bashed the guy and hated his playing in 2002 when he was the goth.

Then he changed his look in 2006 and most of those same people loved the guy.. His playing didnt change, just his look

That is the problem with people on this board, they would rather have a less talented player who is nice and talks to the fans over someone who looks different and is much better

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You say Bucket is a pattern guitatist and playing riffs over drums(whatever that means),

You know what that means...

Compare a GnR song to most songs on Monster & Robots or The Elephant Man's Alarm Clock and you'll see the difference...

Same riff played over and over again with small variations then after a while a completely different riff starts with a completely different drum loop, paste the two together and you have a Buckethead song. No chorus, no change of scale, no transitions, just him playing the same stuff over and over again and sometimes he'll bust into a solo ( but most of the time he does not ).

There are exceptions it's true, some of his albums are really brilliant but a lot of his discography sounds like him recording ideas of riffs he'd like to use later for real songs...

Sure it's tasty but it does not really go anywhere...

We consider playing notes at a million miles a second while doing 10 divebombs followed by 10 pinch harmonic bends noise. Guitar wank would be a better term for what BBF does.

So that's what these sound like to you ?

Edited by The Glow Inc.
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When I think of prodigy, I think of someone exceptionally talented and the talent almost comes easily to him/her. In that way, I think of Ron as a prodigy in how he appears to almost easily change the type of music he plays, quickly adapting without what appears to be a lot of preparation or thought.

As opposed to Slash who I do not consider a prodigy. He is good, but is pretty restricted in scope. I think he gained his talent through shear determination and hard work.

Likely they have both been at it for about the same length of time, but Ron appears significantly wider in his application than Slash. Not to make it a comparison thread, but just to illustrate my point.

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If you have to consistently use the argument "he's a nice guy" to justify ANY guitarist's existance in a band, that isn't saying much for said guitarist.

^^^ This.

Also - who cares if he's a prodigy or not. This is a Guns N' Roses board for Pete's sake!

I don't think anyone in the Sex Pistols was a prodigy, but I'd rather listen to them than Joe Satriani or Yngwie Malmsteen. facepalm.gif

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