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Chinese Democracy(album) in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Democracy

STARABOSTES

By STARABOSTES
in 2010

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STARABOSTES

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after reading the same article over the last year, I realized that from the start, from the very introduction the article is bias, so I've put myself to work to change just one line which is something like : "Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] " in something more accurate and unbiased, because it's not about the USA alone, and not about the"expectations" as "The album received Platinum in 15 countries and Gold in another 15 http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382 , thus selling more than 2 million copies around the globe, without any video or press conference to promote it."

I have done calculations for each country mention and the article I used as a source , it took me more than 2 hours, and when I sum it up is 2.132.500 copies. then, later on when I rechecked the Wikipedia info on this album, the info was changed into : " Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] The album achieved international chart success and has sold over one million copies in Europe." so they took a little into consideration my post. I still see it as not just for the reality of the matter, and I tried to re put my info back on but got rejected as " the deleting I have done and the info. I put in is not constructive" so I wrote to the person responsible with the "undone action on mine " and explain him the facts, and now I'm waiting for the response, that is to do justice for the info.on "Chinese Democracy(album)", because it's not important how it did from "expectations" point of view, as how it did in reality!

And it came to me to address this issue here, were this facts does matter. so go ahead and check me out, I might done some bad mathematics but, the fact of the matter is that this album sold, by October 2009 more then 2 million copies worldwide, achieving 15 Platinum awards and 30 Gold ones in one year since it's release, without any music video or press conference.

So, do you think, from the looks of thing, that Wikipedia is functioning as a "chinese democracy", because for me it absolutely does!? And shouldn't we, "the people" do something about it?

by the way, I think that the second part of this album should be called "American Democracy", because, hey?! where is it? the democracy i mean....

and on a side note i found this report

http://www.vivendi.com/vivendi/IMG/pdf/20090408_annual_report_en_080409.pdf

look at page 156, where is shown that Guns N' Roses sold 3 million units, but it's not specified if it's about Chinese Democracy or the hole albums...but we do have one clue...that they are also dealing with "Mamma Mia! Movie sound track" which was released in 2008, and if you look at the Vivendi report for Universal for 2009 publish in 2010, this time around they mention for some artist the specific album http://www.vivendi.com/vivendi/documents/20090410_2009_annual_report.php at the same page 156. and I've done some extra research, and it seems that it's for the album the artist last put it out. so if some one else is gonna look through the Vivendi report and could confirm if I understood it correctly... - and see that it's specified that it is about "physical and digital album units sold, in millions"! so no more talk about shipments and all that crap...because in some parts of the world Universal is selling it's artists directly in it's stores, and if not it is interested how a "product" is doing in it's partners business in order to know what is the demand for that product, and how to adjust it's business. Also this Vivendi reports could give us a clue how meticulous is Universal, that is, not doing things by the ear - then I could use this source in wikipedia to show that Chinese Democracy sold 3 million units in the first year of release without any music video or press conference and all the media carousel that mediocre bands put them self through in order to achieve "success"!

and I guess this is a challenge for Gnr-Dave...since he's so all over the place "saying"(posting) about who this album was a flop...perhaps it was from "expectations" point of view, but form the real numbers and actions done to promote it, it wasn't!

thank you for reading it, and for every useful remark!

by the way...since my first post some one though I was a "lady'" probably from my user name which it's in Romanian and stands for "Grey Due", I am a 28 old man.

Wish you all the best!

Edited by roua gri
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Estranged Reality LEGEND

Estranged Reality

Posted
Posted (edited)

after reading the same article over the last year, I realized that from the start, from the very introduction the article is bias, so I've put myself to work to change just one line which is something like : "Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] " in something more accurate and unbiased as "The album received Platinum in 15 countries and Gold in another 15<http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382>, thus selling more than 2 million copies around the globe, without any video or press conference to promote it." I have done calculations for each country mention and the article I used as a source , it took me more than 2 hours, and when I sum it up is 2.132.500 copies. then, later on when I rechecked the Wikipedia info on this album, the info was changed into : " Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] The album achieved international chart success and has sold over one million copies in Europe." so they took a little into consideration my post. I still see it as not just for the reality of the matter, and I tried to re put my info back on but got rejected as " the deleting I have done and the info. I put in is not constructive" so I wrote to the person responsible with the "undone action on mine" and explain him the facts, and now I'm waiting for the response, that is to do justice for the info.on "Chinese Democracy(album)", because it's not important how it did from "expectations" point of view, as how it did in reality! And it came to me to address this issue here, were this facts does matter. so go ahead and check me out, I might done some bad mathematics but, the fact of the matter is that this album sold, by October 2009 more then 2 million copies worldwide, achieving 15 Platinum awards and 30 Gold ones in one year since it's release, without any music video or press conference.

So, do you think, from the looks of thing, that Wikipedia is functioning as a "chinese democracy", because for me it absolutely does!? And shouldn't we, "the people" do something about it?

by the way, I think that the second part of this album should be called "American Democracy", because, hey?! where is it? the democracy i mean....

Well, you're wrong. The album did receive mixed reviews (check Metacritic). It's not "biased" to report something factual, which can be substantiated and verified (unlike some of your edits...). You're trying to make it sound like you're presenting a more unbiased presentation of facts, but by removing the stuff about the mixed reviews and disappointing sales (the latter according to the label itself), you're basically adjusting history to suit your own perception.

Edited by Estranged Reality
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STARABOSTES Full

STARABOSTES

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You didn't put any sources in. Sources are more valuable than you and your calculator if you want your edits to stay up.

[/quote

I did put a source in, just read it AGAIN, but to help you out... http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382, where you can find out that..."Chinese Democracy was released on Black Frog/Geffen Records in November 2008 and reached 3 times Platinum in Canada, Platinum in Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, UK, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa. The album is Gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, Holland, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil and Colombia. In the U.S., the album was certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) on February 3, 2009. " and since I can do my own research and my own maths, for each country Platinum or Gold status for a album....

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plonker88 SUPER GOD

plonker88

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Just checking, you do know different countries have different selling targets to be certified gold, platinum etc? Some people have made that mistake before.

Also press conferences have close to zero impact on the sales of the album, their just a little event to tell people, mainly the press, it is coming out, basically a glorified press release. Kind of pointless if you ask me.

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STARABOSTES Full

STARABOSTES

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after reading the same article over the last year, I realized that from the start, from the very introduction the article is bias, so I've put myself to work to change just one line which is something like : "Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] " in something more accurate and unbiased as "The album received Platinum in 15 countries and Gold in another 15<http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382>,'>http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382>, thus selling more than 2 million copies around the globe, without any video or press conference to promote it." I have done calculations for each country mention and the article I used as a source , it took me more than 2 hours, and when I sum it up is 2.132.500 copies. then, later on when I rechecked the Wikipedia info on this album, the info was changed into : " Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] The album achieved international chart success and has sold over one million copies in Europe." so they took a little into consideration my post. I still see it as not just for the reality of the matter, and I tried to re put my info back on but got rejected as " the deleting I have done and the info. I put in is not constructive" so I wrote to the person responsible with the "undone action on mine" and explain him the facts, and now I'm waiting for the response, that is to do justice for the info.on "Chinese Democracy(album)", because it's not important how it did from "expectations" point of view, as how it did in reality! And it came to me to address this issue here, were this facts does matter. so go ahead and check me out, I might done some bad mathematics but, the fact of the matter is that this album sold, by October 2009 more then 2 million copies worldwide, achieving 15 Platinum awards and 30 Gold ones in one year since it's release, without any music video or press conference.

So, do you think, from the looks of thing, that Wikipedia is functioning as a "chinese democracy", because for me it absolutely does!? And shouldn't we, "the people" do something about it?

by the way, I think that the second part of this album should be called "American Democracy", because, hey?! where is it? the democracy i mean....

Well, you're wrong. The album did receive mixed reviews (check Metacritic). It's not "biased" to report something factual, which can be substantiated and verified (unlike some of your edits...). You're trying to make it sound like you're presenting a more unbiased presentation of facts, but by removing the stuff about the mixed reviews and disappointing sales (the latter according to the label itself), you're basically adjusting history to suit your own perception.

I never said that it didn't received mixed reviews! and this matter is anyway presented in the section of the article on " Reception" paragraph! but I am just pointing out that in an introduction, from the very start the potential "virgin reader on the matter" will get the idea that this album done bad. but since it received Platinum in 15 countries and Gold in another 15, according to http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382 , and this is not the only media source who supports these facts....I don't see how I am adjusting history! when I am presenting the facts?!

any way, thank you for your response.!

I think the guy changing your facts was Robin Finck.

Only Robin knows what Robin is doing.

:rofl-lol: could be!

It sold around 4 million, 2 million was the number before the end of 2008.

Thank you for your response! but I was using a source http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382 which was written in October 2009, so if you have a source to back your data then that would be grate an you can put it in wikipedia!

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we need useful mods

well in my opinion this is a useful mod, because, if we are siting on our asses and complain about how the media received this album and how facts are presented in a misleading way(presenting half a coin) then were are we!? and when we are more concern on what shoes is the man wearing...then...

the idea of my action on wikipedia and on here is to try to do the right thing for this album! and is it damn important to take notice when the first link that comes up when you search "Chinese Democracy album" is the one from wikipedia. but hey, that's just me!

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STARABOSTES

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Just checking, you do know different countries have different selling targets to be certified gold, platinum etc? Some people have made that mistake before.

Also press conferences have close to zero impact on the sales of the album, their just a little event to tell people, mainly the press, it is coming out, basically a glorified press release. Kind of pointless if you ask me.

yes i know that there are different...since I said in my first post that I've done calculation for each country!

And on the second, it could be as you say, but the fact is that id did not happen, so...it's worth mention it, especially when, after a press conference the band would receive invitations for interviews and tv shows and all that carousel the "big selling bands" do!

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STARABOSTES

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Great, this needed to be done.

yes! but we're half way there...so maybe others should try to bring there contribution in wikipedia, where they have a topic were is discussed every change for the article!

Edited by roua gri
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axl8302 DEMI-GOD

axl8302

Posted
Posted

after reading the same article over the last year, I realized that from the start, from the very introduction the article is bias, so I've put myself to work to change just one line which is something like : "Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] " in something more accurate and unbiased as "The album received Platinum in 15 countries and Gold in another 15<http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382>,'>http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382>, thus selling more than 2 million copies around the globe, without any video or press conference to promote it." I have done calculations for each country mention and the article I used as a source , it took me more than 2 hours, and when I sum it up is 2.132.500 copies. then, later on when I rechecked the Wikipedia info on this album, the info was changed into : " Despite debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and being certified Platinum by the RIAA, Chinese Democracy received generally mixed to positive reviews from music critics and undersold expectations.[1][2][3] The album achieved international chart success and has sold over one million copies in Europe." so they took a little into consideration my post. I still see it as not just for the reality of the matter, and I tried to re put my info back on but got rejected as " the deleting I have done and the info. I put in is not constructive" so I wrote to the person responsible with the "undone action on mine" and explain him the facts, and now I'm waiting for the response, that is to do justice for the info.on "Chinese Democracy(album)", because it's not important how it did from "expectations" point of view, as how it did in reality! And it came to me to address this issue here, were this facts does matter. so go ahead and check me out, I might done some bad mathematics but, the fact of the matter is that this album sold, by October 2009 more then 2 million copies worldwide, achieving 15 Platinum awards and 30 Gold ones in one year since it's release, without any music video or press conference.

So, do you think, from the looks of thing, that Wikipedia is functioning as a "chinese democracy", because for me it absolutely does!? And shouldn't we, "the people" do something about it?

by the way, I think that the second part of this album should be called "American Democracy", because, hey?! where is it? the democracy i mean....

Well, you're wrong. The album did receive mixed reviews (check Metacritic). It's not "biased" to report something factual, which can be substantiated and verified (unlike some of your edits...). You're trying to make it sound like you're presenting a more unbiased presentation of facts, but by removing the stuff about the mixed reviews and disappointing sales (the latter according to the label itself), you're basically adjusting history to suit your own perception.

I never said that it didn't received mixed reviews! and this matter is anyway presented in the section of the article on " Reception" paragraph! but I am just pointing out that in an introduction, from the very start the potential "virgin reader on the matter" will get the idea that this album done bad. but since it received Platinum in 15 countries and Gold in another 15, according to http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382 , and this is not the only media source who supports these facts....I don't see how I am adjusting history! when I am presenting the facts?!

any way, thank you for your response.!

I think the guy changing your facts was Robin Finck.

Only Robin knows what Robin is doing.

:rofl-lol: could be!

It sold around 4 million, 2 million was the number before the end of 2008.

Thank you for your response! but I was using a source http://www.bravewords.com/news/124382 which was written in October 2009, so if you have a source to back your data then that would be grate an you can put it in wikipedia!

Ron Thal is a source to start with.

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plonker88 SUPER GOD

plonker88

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then ... how many copies has sold in total to date?

2009 Chinese sold 500K plus in the Us alone- it was the 56th best selling album according to billboard and the 57th best had sold 590K in 2009.

So it's now sold over 1 million in U.S or is that number carried on from the end of 2008 figure?

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STARABOSTES Full

STARABOSTES

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then ... how many copies has sold in total to date?

2009 Chinese sold 500K plus in the Us alone- it was the 56th best selling album according to billboard and the 57th best had sold 590K in 2009.

So it's now sold over 1 million in U.S or is that number carried on from the end of 2008 figure?

it's carried from the end of 2008.. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1624339/20091021/guns_n_roses.jhtml

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according to http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-week49-2008.htm and if you follow the week until the 6th week of 2009, and do some maths..if it's not that hard for you...you'll get that the album sold 1.818.000 units in 11 week since release, around the world. afterwards it went lower than 20.000 per week and mediatraffic is not following lower than this numbers.

and they listed number 35 with 1.6 million copies sold for 2008 http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2008.htm al though the correct number would be 1.562.000, but probably they round it up.

and what it's intriguing is that this site didn't put the sign of one million pass as it's usually in the week charts!

well, even for those gay/guys it seems to much to deal with! :D

and again, doesn't the term "chinese democracy" mean more to some of you then just an GNR album? yeas, I know were I am asking this question...

Edited by roua gri
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Ali SUPER GOD

Ali

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according to http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-week49-2008.htm and if you follow the week until the 6th week of 2009, and do some maths..if it's not that hard for you...you'll get that the album sold 1.818.000 units in 11 week since release, around the world. afterwards it went lower than 20.000 per week and mediatraffic is not following lower than this numbers.

and they listed number 35 with 1.6 million copies sold for 2008 http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2008.htm al though the correct number would be 1.562.000, but probably they round it up.

and what it's intriguing is that this site didn't put the sign of one million pass as it's usually in the week charts!

well, even for those gay/guys it seems to much to deal with! :D

and again, doesn't the term "chinese democracy" mean more to some of you then just an GNR album? yeas, I know were I am asking this question...

Mediatraffic is not an official sales source and shouldn't be treated as such. When the IFPI released the official worldwide sales chart for 2008, GN'R's position in that chart showed the underestimation of sales by sites like IFPI.

Ali

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