Chinese Democracy is freaking awesome

[Nick83]

Armed with the knowlede that we now have, will Axl ever again be looked at as an artist who is going to revolutionize or re-define anything? Outside of the few diehards that frequent these forums, will anyone ever see him as being an "in- demand" artist or capable of creating one for the ages? Or, in a sense, would it be fair to say that the release of Chinese Democracy resulted in the world losing a hero?

No, Axl's time as a music superstar is long over.

If he really wanted to make a HUGE impact, the time to strike was 1999. He was on the cover of SPIN magazine, in a fantastic article called "What the world needs now is Axl Rose."

He had been out of the public view for over five years and the music world desperately needed his presence. The Rolling Stone interview gave us the title "Chinese Democracy"....we heard "Oh My God"..."Live Era" promised to close the book on the old chapter of the band....

The time to strike was THEN. And he didn't. The album never came out....the new band didn't make it's live debut until years later.

At the 2002 VMAs, he looked like a joke. Silly braided hair, goofy menagerie of musicians, and worst of all....he was out of breath, and wheezed on stage like an old man. I think that was the final straw for the public...the last interest anyone had in him as a musician.

Nobody cared about CD except for us. NOBODY. The world moved on a long time ago. Outside of the handful of people, maybe several thousand around the world, the diehards like us, nobody cared. It was just too late. The entire industry has changed so much since 1999....things would have been very different had it dropped then. But it didn't.

Axl is still a superstar though. He's a pop culture phenomenon. His exploits still makes the tabloids....people are still fascinated by him as a person, as a celebrity. He makes headlines when he beats photographers in airports. He'll always be a superstar in that respect, but it's not for his "new" music.

Nothing is ever going to have the impact of Appetite, and the few "greatest hits" from Lies and UYI. He's a nostalgia act. I was disgusted by the crowd when I saw them in 2002...in a half empty arena....drunk rednecks catcalling to him that he looks fat. Standing and singing during Sweet Child and then getting more beer during Madagascar.

I suppose if there ever was a reunion, it'd be big news, in the way that any big reunion would be. And they'd come out and play the same songs from Appetite and pepper in Patience and November Rain, and that would be that. That's all the public wants. The public is stupid.

I wish he would stop playing big arenas to people that don't respect him. I wish he would do a small club tour and play ONLY Chinese Democracy songs. But it'll never happen.

So to answer your question: no, releasing CD in 2008 did not result in the world losing a hero. The world turned it's back on Axl Rose a long long time before that.

More like Axl turned his back on the world.

Axl's success was directly linked to his participation in it. In life, you get out of it what you put into it. Unfortunately, when it came time to show up, he didn't. No doubt he put many years of his life and energy into this band, but he never showed up to do his promotion. That's what's responsible for CD and new GNR not being more successful. Should he have released the album earlier? Well, it would have been better. People got sick of waiting and lost interest, but those were mostly the hardcore fans anyway. The rest of the public wasn't in the loop, and they would have received the new band very well if they were confronted with it.

In 2002, the tour was scheduled horribly, and wasn't promoted at all. They were playing all these arenas in the middle of nowhere. In the more popular markets, the arenas sold well. There was no promotion. I remember. No one had any idea new GNR was going on tour. Then as it started to gain momentum (Madison Square Garden sold out, great reviews), the Philadelphia incident happened, and they scrapped the tour.

The MTV performance was terrible, but it was also awesome at the same time. It was exciting and had a lot of energy, and people still watched it in awe. I wouldn't say it was a failure, but for a hardcore GNR fan, it was hard to watch, because the performance, specifically Axl's voice, was terrible that night. They should have never did that performance.

This has been a very difficult journey full of fuck ups. No doubt about it. It's still salvageable though. But the time is running out. If they don't release another album, and promote the hell of it when they do, and tour behind it, and get the proper support from all ends, then yes, Axl and the new band will lose their chance. I still don't think that it's over. People all around the world love GNR, and always will. The problem was, that the average person just never knew what was going on, or even new of the new band.

And CD is a great album. Maybe not the perfect album to release as the comeback album, but it's great. It could have been a super success if it were promoted and supported. If there had never been any leaks, it would have changed things wuite a bit also.

[Angelo666]

All very good points....the MTV performance WAS exciting, but it was also met with derision by members of the media immediately afterward....it wasn't the slam dunk it could have been.

I agree that I would love nothing more than another album right now, but the music industry has changed so much these days....nobody even CARES about albums...nobody BUYS albums....people download singles of whoever is hot at the moment. Only diehards like us buy albums anymore.

I'd say the only way for Axl to be huge right now is to do some kind of rock/rap duet with whoever is huge at the moment....I honestly don't even know who they are....Lady Gaga? Justin Bieber? I know the names but I have never heard their music...and I don't want to. And I don't want Axl to EVER sell out like that....I'm glad he won't!! I remember him calling Slash a "cartoon" for playing with Micheal Jackson. I'm glad Axl still has his own sense of integrity, as hard as it may be for the rest of the world to understand.

I never want to see Axl singing with Miley Cirus or some shit like that....I'd rather he just do his thing, and continue to perform for US. Who cares if he's never be the number one selling artist of the week or whatever? That's all record industry bullshit anyway...it means nothing.

Someday, when the record companies are all gone and artists get 100% of their profits, Axl can release as much as he wants, directly to us....that will be a great day.

[Nick83]

Good points, but what about a collaboration with Kid Rock or someone else in the rock area? Not that I would be happy with that either, or that Axl would even do it, but there are opportunities. I think Axl could call most people up, and they would jump at the chance of doing something with him musically. Despite the failures, and the stigma attached to Axl, there is a lot of professional respect out there for him and what he does, vocally and musically.

People still buy albums, but the situation is pretty bad. I actually think Axl is one of the few people out there that could sell a lot of albums in this day and age, with the right promotion. I think the leaks and streaming it before release, severely hurt CD. That album is a grower. It takes time to digest. If a casual fan quickly listens and skips through it, and determines not to buy it because of that, then that is a problem. The album, especially since it was expected to sound like old GNR, was too deep and hard to get into for the average person casually previewing it online. So, the leaks and streaming it prior to release did no favors.

The other issue is how many people actually downloaded the album? We can't account for those numbers, but I think I can speculate why more people didn't physically buy it: There was no brand loyalty. Why? Because the album came and went with zero promotion. The average person never felt the importance of buying it. Downloading was easier.

The average person is influenced by the media. If a product is hyped, most buy into that hype. Is there was strong promotion, and emphasis on CD and the return of Axl, people would have bought a lot more of it. But instead, people just previewed it or downloaded it, and never bought it, and I can't blame them.

[SunnyDRE]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

[Cdlove]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

[Graveyard]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

pretty easy concept to understand. the poster you quoted said last week 'Cd just isn't good' and 'the new band sucks'

not really much of a fan these days, just a sad cupcake

[SunnyDRE]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

[Rick]

Mad Hatters is angry at Axl .

I wonder why she is...

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatters is angry at Axl .

I wonder why she is...

Surely you are not trying to imply that I am Madison?

Thank you for both you and Montrealer's warm welcome, but I'm just a first time member who desires to share in my nu-gnr fandom with others. It's been a great tour so far, been following it closely. If Axl, Bumblefoot, Buckethead, Tobias, Frank, and Dizzy bring themselves to the states, and drag their ass down to Florida, I imagine I'll try to catch at least 3-4 lives shows. Can't wait.

[Cdlove]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

[SunnyDRE]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

Most of my posts on this forum aren't in the news section (view my profile); but just like everyone else here - I initially came here for the band, because I love some of their work; so every now and again, I want to talk about the "latest happenings" with band.

Sorry if I'm not more positive.

[Cdlove]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

Most of my posts on this forum aren't in the news section (view my profile); but just like everyone else here - I initially came here for the band, because I love some of their work; so every now and again, I want to talk about the "latest happenings" with band.

Sorry if I'm not more positive.

If you come here just to bash every little thing about the band, why come here? I used to like Aerosmith when I was a kid, once again I dont post on their forums(anymore).

[SunnyDRE]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

Most of my posts on this forum aren't in the news section (view my profile); but just like everyone else here - I initially came here for the band, because I love some of their work; so every now and again, I want to talk about the "latest happenings" with band.

Sorry if I'm not more positive.

If you come here just to bash every little thing about the band, why come here?

I'm waiting for my refund.

[Cdlove]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

Most of my posts on this forum aren't in the news section (view my profile); but just like everyone else here - I initially came here for the band, because I love some of their work; so every now and again, I want to talk about the "latest happenings" with band.

Sorry if I'm not more positive.

If you come here just to bash every little thing about the band, why come here?

I'm waiting for my refund.

Ahh, kinda makes sense now.

[Classic_Rock]

[Nobody cared about CD except for us. NOBODY. The world moved on a long time ago. Outside of the handful of people, maybe several thousand around the world, the diehards like us, nobody cared.

I agree only with that point.

BUT!

People still care about Guns N Roses and Axl Rose!

The evidence is full arena on Moscow show. Even this days Axl could receive the same audience as Beyonce.

I'm sure, the interest in GNR will never disappear!

[Nintari]

Even this days Axl could receive the same audience as Beyonce.

Not that I think Beyonce is worth a shit....but you've got to be kidding me.

[Lines&Noses]

If he were to stop playing all the old stuff, then it would have been pointless for him to have gone to such great lengths to retain the name Guns N' Roses

Not really...Axl understood the value of the GnR brand name and is using it to establish and sell his new band and music..............many, myself included, are not happy he is still using the name but in Axl's defense it is a smart business decision...........

BTW, Angelo yours gets my vote for post of the year so far...excellent job

To be slightly tangential people always seem to say that Axl keping the GnR name was a smart business decision but I'm not so sure.

The forum seems split between fans of the old band and the new band, with many of the new fans quite dismissive of the old fans referring to them as "mullet heads" etc.

I think these people would have been turned onto Axls music whatever he called the band, indeed I think he may have found many more receptive listeners to the new music, had he dropped the GnR name.

As for us old time fans I saw the new band/s in 02 and twice in 06. I loved the AFD heavy shows. I wouda gone to those shows whether is was called Axl solo show or GnR show. This time round I am really not sure I will go simply because they are playing a lot of the Chi Dem songs I am not so keen on. But this is my point its the content of the show I went for not the name on the poster. Also I know several of my fellow old time fans won't support the new band because rightly or wrongly they blame it for preventing a reunion.

So in short having the name would only be a smart business decision if he kept the original band together (or most of it) and continued to record the blues/rcok that made them famous in the first place.

But Axl wanted to go in another direction which was fine but I think keeping the name has hindered him more than it has helped him?

[kleber]

This Love and Sorry are great songs......

Street of dreams,chinese democracy,irs,madagascar,better are ok.

I don't like the rest....barely listen to them.

From 0 to 20 i give a 13 to chinese democracy....ok this i love deserves a point alone,no 2-,it gets a 15 than!!

Btw what is the best live version of Sorry outhere?tk.

Edited June 10, 2010 by kleber

[Azazel]

Great review.

[mcalldp]

This Love and Sorry are great songs......

Street of dreams,chinese democracy,irs,madagascar,better are ok.

I don't like the rest....barely listen to them.

From 0 to 20 i give a 13 to chinese democracy....ok this i love deserves a point alone,no 2-,it gets a 15 than!!

Btw what is the best live version of Sorry outhere?tk.

And see, here I thought Prostitute deserved 20 ;-) Different strokes for different folks and all that I guess....

[kleber]

This Love and Sorry are great songs......

Street of dreams,chinese democracy,irs,madagascar,better are ok.

I don't like the rest....barely listen to them.

From 0 to 20 i give a 13 to chinese democracy....ok this i love deserves a point alone,no 2-,it gets a 15 than!!

Btw what is the best live version of Sorry outhere?tk.

And see, here I thought Prostitute deserved 20 ;-) Different strokes for different folks and all that I guess....

Don't like the beggining of the song...get's better after that anyway, like that at 3.30 min,don't work too well live.

Lyrics are good.

Edited June 10, 2010 by kleber

[batman007]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

Most of my posts on this forum aren't in the news section (view my profile); but just like everyone else here - I initially came here for the band, because I love some of their work; so every now and again, I want to talk about the "latest happenings" with band.

Sorry if I'm not more positive.

If you come here just to bash every little thing about the band, why come here?

I'm waiting for my refund.

I will be glad to put money in your pay pal account! Most of the your posts are negative towards the new lineup. I think the current GNR are amazing, and CD is a masterpiece!

[SunnyDRE]

Weird how threads talking about how good CD is, are never thrown in Dust n Bones - Yet threads saying it's not good are.

Maybe because this is a Guns n Roses FAN Forum. If people hate Tha Carter III with a passion you dont see them posting on the Lil' Wayne forum.

Yep cause Lil Wayne only has released one CD right.

**sarcasm**

Yea, good point. But, lets use me as an example, I liked Tha Carter much more than Tha Carter II or III. I dont post on a Lil Wayne forum. You dont like Chinese Democracy, well this is what you should expect for the next few albums, so simply dont post here(Well not in the news section anyway, I seem to like you in other sections),

Most of my posts on this forum aren't in the news section (view my profile); but just like everyone else here - I initially came here for the band, because I love some of their work; so every now and again, I want to talk about the "latest happenings" with band.

Sorry if I'm not more positive.

If you come here just to bash every little thing about the band, why come here?

I'm waiting for my refund.

I will be glad to put money in your pay pal account!

I'm sure, I'm not the only one waiting; so unless you're loaded and willing dole out cash to 75% of the board, save the gesture.

Most of the your posts are negative towards the new lineup.

So...**shrugs**

My posts are what I think.

I think the current GNR are amazing and CD is a masterpiece!

I don't think this.

Far from it.......hence me and others wanting a refund.

[batman007]

Sunnydre, I am not saying anything bad about your opinions, everyone has a right to their own. If you dont like CD thats cool, but you make it a point to let people know how much of a retard we are if we like it better than AFD.(example) That is our opinion! You really think you are soo right about what you write, but you are far from it.

[SunnyDRE]

Sunnydre, I am not saying anything bad about your opinions, everyone has a right to their own. If you dont like CD thats cool, but you make it a point to let people know how much of a retard we are if we like it better than AFD.(example) That is our opinion! You really think you are soo right about what you write, but you are far from it.

Retard was bad word to use in that post, and I shouldn't have used it.; but of course I think what I post is right.

Don't you?

Edited June 10, 2010 by SunnyDRE