In defense of Buckethead....

[The Glow Inc.]

Ron's stuff is harder to play.

Try and study both his stuff and Bucket's for fuck's sake.

Don't talk technical ability before you've actually tried to play the shit...

I mean this is the same reason why a lot of people believe Slash is "skilled". No. He is not "skilled". He's very melodical, he's a talented writer but he's not really what I'd call a "skilled" guitarist. Buckethead IS skilled, he's more melodical than Bumblefoot ( he does not venture into semi-atonal music ) but what he plays is nowhere near as difficult as what Ron plays.

Once again, try and actually study the music.

You can like Buckethead more, yes he's more melodical and yes his playing fit Chinese Democracy a LOT more but no, his hardest stuff is not as hard as Bumble's. That is all.

And Jordan is not really the best exemple of Bucket's skills. Nor is Guitars Suck for Bumble.

[Rovim]

As I see it, Bucket gave us a better Chinese Democracy. He's playing improve the songs. (There Was A Time is a good example)

I also feel his image could have made Guns MUCH bigger than they are now. People just needed time to get used to his look, but I think he could have been an icon in Gn'R.

I think what's great about him, is that he really knows what the song asks for: it could be a very melodic solo like on Sorry, or his powerful solo on I.R.S, both a perfect match to the concept of the song.

In the studio, Buckethead had great chemistry with Robin and each guitar player's style really comlimented the other. Without this connection, a Guns album can't work imo, so I was delighted to hear that they had that on the album.

Bumblefoot is super talented and I think he's a great choice for Gn'R to replace Bucket. I even think he and Ashba can bring something special to Gn'R in the studio. I just don't think it should be on cd2's expense. Chinese Democracy was a double album concept, with Bucket's and Robin's guitar parts playing a huge role in that. What we heard is just half of what they came up with. (if not less)

I'm guessing the full picture of Chinese Democracy can give us a better understanding of what Bucket really brought to Gn'R. He was the perfect choice after Slash.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Rovim

[ashysdad]

( he does not venture into semi-atonal music )

Good observation. Bucket's music is generally completely diatonic or completely atonal. That said, he's been going semi-atonal lately, some parts of 'dragons of eden' come to mind.

[Guest gunns5]

its just a shame to me anyway, that the musicians who actually spent years upon years writing the material that the general public have bought, listened to and love, will never actually be able to perform it the way it was intended,and that is in a live audience during a concert.

Im mainly talking about Bucket, but Finck as well. We will never see Finck playing the solo he wrote in TIL, and same goes for Bucket on 'ITW' , sorry and twat.

Its just one of those things in music and bands, but its kinda disappointing to know that.

[wasted]

We have the record company to thank for this.

[Young_Gun]

Okay let me point this out from a guitarists view, finger picking all 3 fingers(plus pick) with sweeps. No Bucket cannot match this in technical ability.

BIG WHOOP!!

Let me point this out to you from a guitarist's point of view, here Bucket is doing 8 finger tapping(1.40 minutes) not to mention his finger picking string skipping on the acoustic(.10 seconds). Saying Bucket can't match Ron's technical ability is laughable at least.

No it's not, tapping is much easier than chicken picking will all fingers and sweeping 5 notes .

So your saying Bucket can't do chicken picking?!? You must have missed the 2002 Bucket solo spots... Oh and sweeping, oh my...no guitarist has ever sweeped before... certainly not Bucket, Yngwie, Chris Broderick, Marty Friedman... Only Ron can do such a thing...

Bucket cannot chickenpick at Rons pace. And in terms of sweeping, yea Bucket can sweep(Better is a great example) but educate yourself before you talk out of your ass, listen to ALL of Rons albums like I listened to all of buckets, then you'll know that Ron is the much better sweeper. Also take a look at a song called "I can't play the Blues" it's a song that makes fun of Yngwie(Terrible guitarist) and Marty(overrated).

I don't have to listen to ALL of Ron's albums to have a decent opinion. Thats the thing, you act like your opinion is a fact, hence why i call you out on it. So now Bucket can't chicken pick at Ron's pace, before it was "ron is a better technical guitarist". Yngwie a terrible guitarist... OK you just lost all credibility there. Say what you want about his sound or his music but the man can surely play and has influenced many many people. And Marty Friedman overrated.... Good lord man, your the one praising Ron up and down(in EVERY single Buckethead thread) yet you call Marty Friedman overrated...

You continue to babble on about "I've listened to every Bucket and Ron album so my opinion is a fact" yet you are the one who brings up Ron in every single Bucket thread, clearly you don't like Bucket or are at least biased to Ron and are trying to hide this, otherwise you wouldn't keep bringing up Ron, no one else did until you did.

Don't post studio songs and say "Ron is better at sweeping/chicken picking/etc" as studio versions are cleaned up, post live shit. Here is Bucket over 15(if not 20) years ago doing string skipping sweep tapping, live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqFrBrvnTMY

Your turn.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Young_Gun

[The Glow Inc.]

This is going absolutely nowhere...

Ron's "Don Wardo Pimpwagon" at Freak Guitar Camp :

Ron jamming with a jazz band :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzDvIkDp0bM&feature=related

Ron Thal Chopin Fantasie ( 8 fingers tapping ) live....

( and it does not even feature the best part... )

"I can't play the blues" :

A song off of his first instrumental album called "Orf" :

And a rare song called "Disengaged" very reminescent of Buckethead's style :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2KXeGL5Mzs

ANYWAY. This is stupid.

Guitar wanking contest.

Both are guitar gods

[ashysdad]

Ron's "Don Wardo Pimpwagon" at Freak Guitar Camp :

I love these vids. The Freak Guitar Camp is on my 'must do' list.

Anyway, as you said they're both guitar gods, so why are we all arguing?

Back on topic. CDlove - you're welcome to start a thread in defense of Ron if you feel the need.

[The Glow Inc.]

Little Trivia Fact :

Did you guys know that Buckethead asked Ron to feature and sing on one of his 2005 release ( probably "Enter The Chicken" ) ?

( Yes, it's true )

[ashysdad]

Little Trivia Fact :

Did you guys know that Buckethead asked Ron to feature and sing on one of his 2005 release ( probably "Enter The Chicken" ) ?

( Yes, it's true )

Man that would have been cool. Why didn't it eventuate? Do you know?

[SunnyDRE]

Bucket is definitely great

Open to debate.

the 2002 South Park N Roses band was pretty epic, it's a real shame that that version of the album didn't get out.

I agree. I always wonder if my opinion of the album is based on the fact that I had the leaks, long before the album came out. What would I have thought the album, if I never heard the leaks?

The newer line up seems to be connecting with GNR fans in a similar way to the original line up did

That's not true.

It's definitely been a fucked up situation but nobody can say it's been boring.

I agree. I hate to admit it, but a large part of the appeal of GNR these days for me, is the drama.

Bucket (all these guys) are worthy of GNR

I disagree.

[Rovim]

Little Trivia Fact :

Did you guys know that Buckethead asked Ron to feature and sing on one of his 2005 release ( probably "Enter The Chicken" ) ?

( Yes, it's true )

I did know that, yeah. That would have been very interesting to hear. Ron has a great voice. I always loved Izzy and Duff singing on Gn'R material.

Imagine what Bumble could do with his voice on a Gn'R song. It could be so cool having Ron singing in the background or even a little section where he trades off vocals with Axl while soloing.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Rovim

[The Glow Inc.]

Man that would have been cool. Why didn't it eventuate? Do you know?

Ron talked about it in an interview back in 2004 or 2005 on Dementia Radio.

He said that he was contacted by Buckethead to feature and sing on one of his next releases. Ron accepted but never heard from Bucket again afterwards.

My guess is because Serj Tankian accepted too ?

[Jordan Rose]

Bucket is definitely great

Open to debate.

Great: markedly superior in character or quality; remarkably skilled. That Buckethead can be described as great in any context is beyond debate. To say he was the 'greatest' or a 'genius' would certainly be open to debate but all you're fucking saying is you're not massively keen on him. I don't like The Beatles but that doesn't mean they weren't great and more ffs.

The newer line up seems to be connecting with GNR fans in a similar way to the original line up did

That's not true.

It's an opaque statement but what I think it's getting at is that the current ensemble are getting over with live audiences and, to an extent, forum users in a way that the 2002/2006 band didn't. Ashba is commanding audiences in a way that Finck never did and Axl is back to his old self and not the glassy-eyed, nervous-looking performer he was in '02. The band are interacting and playing as a band and not just a bunch of guys stood in their spot on one side of the stage waiting for their solo or whatever. I never once noticed Bucket interact with Tommy or Robin on stage in a friendly way for obvious reasons. There was virtually no camaraderie or friendly banter in the 2002 shows. Online, people are loving the band videos, Twitters and general interaction with fans and that they seem like a real unit with nobody likely to leave until Axl calls it a day. They aren't all the best players and they aren't all the guys that wrote the album but they're a band that people can believe in who are in it for the long haul and who have faith in Axl, Guns and the fans. That's what I think was meant by 'connecting with GNR fans in a similar way to the original line up'.

It's definitely been a fucked up situation but nobody can say it's been boring.

I agree. I hate to admit it, but a large part of the appeal of GNR these days for me, is the drama.

Like the drama you feel you have to create by hijacking threads about band members including Tommy and Bucket who you don't particularly care for? What is the point in trolling a section of a board dedicated to an album and band you don't like or believe in? It's so fucking pointless unless, like you say, it's purely for the drama. Why don't you spend your time posting on a forum for a currently active artist that you do like? Or just stay in the old Gunners section and talk about them ad nauseum. CD and New Guns fans don't go into every thread about the alumni just to bitch, even though there's plenty to bitch about so why do you have to be such a hateful little maggot on the forum for the new band?

[AnEskimo]

I completely agree. I saw Buckethead late last year, and it was incredible. He is truly an amazing, amazing musician, full of emotion.

[Eddie Money]

Bucket was talented but it was almost like he was a guest player.

Guest player indeed! He even had his own T-Shirt on sale at the merchandise counter and kind of stood off on his own. His nunchuck show was odd too. I don't go to rock concerts to watch Martial Arts exhibits. The gimmick that was Buckhead sure did bring attention to the band though. Still today, when I proudly tell people that I'm going to see Guns N' Roses play live, 9 out of 10 people say "Who's in the band? Is Buckhead going to be there?"

I'm happy with the current line-up.

[Ed Vega]

The departure of Buckethead still remains a mystery. Why? Well, we never heard Bucket's side of the story (or Herbie, his hand puppet, whichever).

Actually, Buckethead's manager issued a press release:

Buckethead became fed up with Guns N' Roses' inability to complete an album or tour

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=7987

[inthisriver]

I completely agree. I saw Buckethead late last year, and it was incredible. He is truly an amazing, amazing musician, full of emotion.

dang, sounds ill

[Casual]

Ron and Ashba are nice guys and all but...

Buckethead> Ron AND Ashba.

Anyways, Buckethead has been ill lately, so even if he were in the band, I'm sure he wouldn't have been able to play the last few shows and they may have been canceled. I still support the new lineup and I would see them live if they came to my town.

[Guest Sweet Tooth]

I hope Tommy isn't responsible for making Buckethead leave, if he is... I've lost some respect for him.

[LLL]

Topic was Buckethead, suddenly the thread got spammed with Bumblefoot videos by people who are active in the Bumblefoot forum.

Using typical lame arguments which have nothing to do with how people experience music. Which is also why Bumble does not have a real connection with music, he just doesn't get it like his followers. 'I can do random slide noises while tapping with 14 fingers and chicken picking sweeps with my toes as I burp Beethoven's 9th, while posing like a dork in those guitar magazines, I am the bestesest'. Yawn.

On topic, reasons why Bucket left GnR:

1. Axl promised the new material would be the focus of the shows, this was very important for Bucket to join. Unfortunately GnR proved to be an AfD cover band, which it still is. Why sack the old guys and rarely play new songs? A majority of the setlist would be new songs (which would be easy with the multiple albums coming) and old songs added for shits and giggles.

2. The album would be released within 1 year after recording sessions were done and multiple albums would be released after that, with major touring. Obviously never happened, not that Axl was to blame, it was mainly industry stuff that stopped this.

3. Musical and contractual limitations. No matter how much the current band members lie about it, they are not allowed to talk about many things (ask Bumble in an interview for a big magazine about which songs he likes on Slash's new album for instance...) and they have to ask permission if they want to do something outside the band. The contract they signed makes them employees and everything your employee produces is first yours. There are countless Buckethead riffs, melodies, etc., that is owned by GnR and will never be used while Buckethead liked them a lot and wanted to do something with them, be it in GnR or on a solo album.

4. There were a few people in and around the band who hated Buckethead from the start, because he is not an asskisser and because his talent overshadowed the weak efforts of the others.

They started drama behind Axl's back. He still doesn't know about it, because Buckethead doesn't whine about shit like this. Bucket really didn't care that much for it until it became a daily practice and who needs that shit, especially from people who do not seem to have a real talent. Now they have musicians in the band who kiss those guy's asses, so they are cool to stay in the band.

Few more things but who cares anymore, certainly not Buckethead.

He was the only musician who actually wanted to go places with GnR, musically and creatively. Now you have people in the band who are happy getting a paycheck being smiley asskissers and desperately try to maintain their position in the band with everything they do.

Nobody blames anyone for accepting being in GnR to secure their financial future and in the meantime promote your shitty solo album which nobody would have bought if you were not in GnR, it is actually smart to do and add to that the travelling the world for free, being worshipped by fans, etc, etc. You would have to be a complete dumbass to not want it.

At least 2 guys in the current band are in it because of the financial reason only. But lying about it that it is about the music, while you hate old GnR music that you have to play daily at rehearsal or gigs is rather pathetic. The only guy in the band who actually likes old GnR music is Ashba, too bad he is the worst guitarist in the band. Bucket loves the Illusion albums, he even got it on vinyl and he still has an original cassette of AfD.

I am off this forum, was fun at times, ha! Peace.

[plonker88]

I am off this forum, was fun at times, ha! Peace.

This was the best part of that whole post.

Edited June 15, 2010 by plonker88

[inthisriver]

I am off this forum, was fun at times, ha! Peace.

This was the best part of that whole post.

Haha

That dude was weird

[moreblack]

Using typical lame arguments which have nothing to do with how people experience music. Which is also why Bumble does not have a real connection with music, he just doesn't get it like his followers. 'I can do random slide noises while tapping with 14 fingers and chicken picking sweeps with my toes as I burp Beethoven's 9th, while posing like a dork in those guitar magazines, I am the bestesest'. Yawn.

Agreed.

[Matt13]

There goes Kanada again... trying to impress everyone with his superior intelligence to anyone else in the world, but also speaking oh behalf of the masses.

BH is no doubt an amazing guitar player. His ability to transcend 'shredding' with soulful melodies is like no other.

However, the man worked out of a chicken coup in the studio and was known to smear his own shit on those very chicken coup walls.

I've said it a million times, only a handful of people (hardcores on these forums) appreciate what BH brought to the table in GNR. Fewer hardcores found his image to be even remotely good for the band.

If he stole any shows, it was because he was in fact completely ridiculous. I cringed every time I saw him on stage, especially with his collection of puppets sitting on the amps and speakers.

The vast majority of people I've talked to and witnessed talking about GNR back then and specifically BH was that GNR was a circus act and BH was a freak. A JOKE.

One can find the proof in any Youtube discussion thread for say the 2002 VMA awards. That was the nail in the BH era GNR coffin.

Nice try though, Kaneda.