Album stream hurting sales

[Estranged Reality]

According to Axl's lawsuit against Irving Azoff, one of his speculations as to ChiDem's disappointing sales was the pre-release online streaming of the entire record.

I am wondering what everyone's opinions are, because last week Eminem scored the highest-selling first-week sales in over two years (close to 800,000 copies) -- and not only did his album leak about two or three weeks before release, but the whole thing was online for streaming a week before (about the same as Chinese Democracy).

Many articles about the sales (Billboard, etc.) have mentioned this, speculating that the stream and early leak helped spread positive word-of-mouth, and so I was curious as to whether you believe streaming really can hurt an album or possibly make it sell even more.

[GNR 1991]

The MySpace stream hurt album sales, surely, but so did the leaks. That wasn't even the second biggest reason why the album didn't sell as well as expected though.

1.) Best Buy releasing the album exclusively in the US hurt album sales tremendously

2.) When you have no promotional machine whatsoever, besides a chat on a few fan forums, the public doesn't know about it

The band should have been promoting the album (even though they didn't have a lead guitarist). The album should've been sold in all retail stores, instead of Best Buy (I do understand the meaning behind the Universal/BB deal however).

[Nintari]

I think it hurt sales personally. Alot of people who didn't follow the band throughout the years tuned in with virgin ears, expecting Welcome To The Jungle 2 and got something ENTIRELY different. This wasn't "Guns N Roses" to them.

But that's just my opinion. No one really knows....

Edited July 6, 2010 by Nintari

[kyrie]

I don't think the stream was the issue - I think the leaks were.

They sounded bad, for the most part. I was horrified by how Madagascar sounded. I don't know if it wasn't mixed/mastered right, or if it was the compression used, but compared to the song on the album... the album version sounds miles better. If people heard those leaks and thought they were how the album would sound, well...

Next, Best Buy basically not having any promotional plan, and no promotion from the Universal end, etc.

The album was No. 1 here anyway and 3x platinum but in the U.S., it's a different story.

Finally - not a lot of albums are going to a sell a million these days, not in the rock genre. Look at STP's new album. That would be a platinum record even 10 years ago. Rock fans just aren't buying CDs, whereas for some reason, certain rap, r&b, and pop fans still do to some extent.

Only say... AC/DC is selling. But CD sold 250,000 its first week. Thus far this year only about 10 albums have managed that

[SunnyDRE]

Only hurt sales to the degree that it sold 9 when it could have sold 10.

It is always the product. Even though Axl didn't promote it, the word of mouth on the "mystic" of this album dwarfs anything released in the last 20 years.

The music wasn't there.

Edited July 6, 2010 by SunnyDRE

[ThinkAboutYou]

Not enough promotion and no touring at the release

I think the streaming helped sales and is a poor excuse

Edited July 6, 2010 by ThinkAboutYou

[NewRose]

I believe a catchy, well liked, and well written/produced album will benefit from leaks and streaming, while an album that has limited popular appeal but is over hyped for a long stretch of time will hurt it when leaked or stream. But without a music video, Axl was shooting himself in the foot!

[Guest Apollo]

Em is as big of an artist that is out there - anything he does is going to sell.

.

Its a shame that more people didn't hear CD, because it is amazing. I couldn't be happier with it.

.

Imo, lots of reasons it never took off. Best Buy was a terrible choice. We don't even have one in my city. Ac-DC were smart - choosing walmart and releasing a book at the same time. Lack of promotion and live performances. At least do part of the "scene" - one or two late night shows, an awards show or two. Axl didn't do huge promotions with the big media outlets. And no video hurt. You have to do alllllll those things.

.

And the leaks for 8 years was also a killer. I'd already heard The Blues over a thousand times by the time the record came out.

[LightningBolt]

Not enough promotion and no touring at the release

This. It could've sold a lot more.

[Jackie Moon]

i think the stream only made it easier to scam. if someone wanted to hear it for free they would have, with or without the stream.

its just the nature of the internet. i had a lot of friends who listened and really liked it, but they didnt buy it. casual fans, students. if it wasn't streaming they would have downloaded it. result would still be the same. no purchase.

i think axls MIA status is the biggest factor. the leaks just created buzz. he blames azoff and the record company for not promoting, but i think thats bullshit. if axl really wanted to promote it he could have in his own way. he clearly didnt want to. why not go on eddie trunk again? i think the record company wanted him to go on leno, shit like that, and axl basically said "im goin home". he just went into hiding and then when things didnt turn out he started pointing fingers.

the other thing : the name. i have no problem with it but we all know a TON of people discounted it before they ever heard it. i had people tell me "ITS NOT GUNS N ROSES" before they ever heard a song. CD didnt stand a fighting chance. i even saw one person on this board say "i would like shacklers revenge if it wasnt called guns n roses"

thats such a ridiculous position, but its out there. people might like the songs if they were called axls revenge. if you dont like the music based on the music, thats fair. but i think its unfair to dismiss it just because you think axl is a bad guy and slash is really cool and was cheated. IMO they are both sketchy so what the hell, it is what it is.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Jackie Moon

[Ebony]

What really hurt the album was releasing it at the same time as Kanye released 808s. No one could compete with Kanye then rock1 rock1

[ITW 2012]

I think releasing Chinese Democracy as the first single hurt sales a lot more.

[FuddMckagan]

I think it definitely hurt it a little bit, but the main thing that stumped it was Axl's lack of promotion. I know it's been said a million times, but if he had done even one tv or radio interview, I think the album would have stuck around a lot longer than it did. In reality, it had buzz for maybe a month at best. After that, it got little to no radio play, and no one was really thinking all that much about it. I think if Axl had made some kind of effort to keep it around it would've stayed in the minds of people a bit longer.

And what Jackie said is true, people refused to buy it or even listen to it because "it's not Guns N Roses". I guess the name is a blessing as well as a curse.

[Jackie Moon]

I think releasing Chinese Democracy as the first single hurt sales a lot more.

also true. i think its a solid song and has its place on the album, but its in the bottom 3 IMO. the intro is great but after axls big scream its all downhill. buckets solo rocks tho.

the first single was the first impression, i still think the first 2 minutes of better would have gotten people pregnant. but by the time it was released that ship had sailed.

[eggers]

There were no singles.

[American Psycho]

There were no singles.

[Amir]

Album stream is why I bought Chinese Democracy. And subsequently everything else by Guns N' Roses.

[D..]

Maybe it hurt but very very few.

Two majors problems:

1) Rock from the 80's is not "fashionable" anymore. Most people listen to rap/hip hop/electro music, or the new fashionable bands of the moment that will be has been in no time as they have no good music to back it up (two or three years ago it was Tokio Hotel, now it's Kings of Leon and Kasabian, and the surprising return of old Porcupine Tree), or the "good taste music" like AC/DC and Led Zeppelin. That's sad but very true. People don't care about Guns N' Roses anymore AND if they do, they'll only tell you one thing "where's Slash?"

2) The promotion was fucking terrible. NO promotion, no song on the radio, no interview, nothing to back up the release. Personally, I was happy with that but I know most people weren't even aware (and still aren't) that the album came out.

In my case, the album stream got me to buy the album: when I listened to the stream, I thought that the sound quality was terrible but that there were brilliant ideas everywhere, and it got me to buy the album to have a decent sound quality on my stereo. Two years later, I'm a CD addict.

[wasted]

Album stream is why I bought Chinese Democracy. And subsequently everything else by Guns N' Roses.

There's always one.

[GN'R Lies]

Promotion would be have been a killer idea but even a few interviews where they presented a united confidence as a band and in the material would have done the job - instead they went into hiding

We don't know what GNR are trying to achieve commercially, but if success is part of the plan you can't expect the broader public to do it on their own when there's such significant change in the band and music.

[TeeJay410]

Eminem's latest album leaked 2 weeks before, and he streamed it on his myspace, first week he sells 741,000 and then goes platinum week two.

The 2 biggest issues are the best buy deal, and cultural relevance. CD and Recovery both have very high quality material, but Eminem is more relevant, more people care whats going on with his music than gnr, and it's the truth.

[Lines&Noses]

I think Axl is deluding himself if he thinks that the streams were to blame for poor sales?

There is not a lot of difference between the streams and hearing the songs on TV/radio. I think most people agree there was not enough promotion rather than than too much.

On the topic of promotion, in the UK at least there was some promotion: posters everywhere even full page adverts taken out in newspapers etc, but it was pretty short lived. I can only assume to maintain that kind of publicity push the album had to produce certain sales targets which apparently it did not.

Axl as the only original member really had to put himself out there especially if he was gonna push this as a GnR album.

There were a myraid of things that went against he album: it took soo long to produce, the songs did sound kinda dated when finally released, despite having the GnR name it was quite a departure musically, it only featured one original member. I honestly believe that these factors were much more relevant to sales of Chi Dem.

Baz

[J Dog]

I dont care who you are, if you have been out the spotlight for over a decade and release a new album with no promotion, one single(and not even the best choice for 1st single), only having one store chain sell it, and the actual band is nowhere to be seen, that is whats going to happen. Most people I know didnt even know CD was being released. I just hate it cause the majority didnt really even get a chance to hear it.

[ManetsBR]

There were no singles.

I heard Chinese Democracy once at the radio, and Better many times.

[amacfantasy]

Eminem's latest album leaked 2 weeks before, and he streamed it on his myspace, first week he sells 741,000 and then goes platinum week two.

The 2 biggest issues are the best buy deal, and cultural relevance. CD and Recovery both have very high quality material, but Eminem is more relevant, more people care whats going on with his music than gnr, and it's the truth.

right at this minute he is more relevant in north america but thats it, and even though GNR are a old band to the north american world if Axl and the record company actually put themselves out there with promotion like the rest of the music world thru these even just last couple years Axl would be way bigger there currently but that will never happen now will it.

Edited July 6, 2010 by amacfantasy