The 'more is more' approach of Chinese Democracy

[Rovim]

I think classic Guns fans will appreciate the next album a lot more (unless they hate current GN'R no matter how good the music is).

I think with Ron and DJ helping with the writing process, they're gonna put out some pretty solid tunes. Though many people greatly dislike DJ, I still feel like he has a classic rocker in him that can play some mean riffs.

And I think Ron is pure genius. The man can play anything. He can also write some of the most emotional solos too. His solo in the song Breaking from Normal is magical. There's so much emotion in it.

I just get a really great feeling from the current line-up, especially after seeing them live.

Besides, how can you even begin to know that classic Guns fans will appreciate the next album when you've yet to hear a note from it?

I didn't say I "knew" anything. I said I think they'll appreciate it more. It's just a feeling I have.

Don't judge, bro.

I had a feeling you'd say that.

Anyway, I think Axl plans big things for Dj Bumble and they have the talent to write great material for Gn'R. It's just that I don't think Axl will scrap the guitar parts of Robin and Bucket for part 2 of Chinese Democracy. He did use most of Bucket's material long after he was gone so obviously he knows Bucket ownz.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Rovim

[sweetness]

I think some of the songs have a great blend of old and new (Catcher, Rhiad, Street of Dreams) but its just such a broken album overall. The best albums are written and recorded in a short period of time to really capture where the artist was at in that time period, a blink of an eye compared to what it took to record Chinese Democracy. An album that tells us "from 1994 to 2008 Axl and the hijacked Guns N' Roses were trying everything", as opposed to something cool like "from 1969 to 1971 The Rolling Stones managed to record one of the most highly acclaimed rock n roll albums to date while on tour partying and doing drugs all the time". Not only is the story fucking awesome, the music is a lot more genuine and modest and its so much easier to love, especially compared to pseudo epic masterpieces like This I Love, Prostitute, and Shacklers Revenge. Now you're probably asking yourself why I'm comparing Chinese Democracy to Sticky Fingers, and thats merely because Sticky Fingers is a great album that just happened like so many great albums. Chinese Democracy goes out of it's way to try and be a great album, its not a snapshot of where an artist was standing in time, minding their own business writing music. its a clusterfuck of ideas that snowballed over 15 years and the music suffers because of it. I understand putting a lot into your work, but you need to know when to stop, and I don't think Axl had much of a grasp on that. But it is what it is.

[Rovim]

I think some of the songs have a great blend of old and new (Catcher, Rhiad, Street of Dreams) but its just such a broken album overall. The best albums are written and recorded in a short period of time to really capture where the artist was at in that time period, a blink of an eye compared to what it took to record Chinese Democracy. An album that tells us "from 1994 to 2008 Axl and the hijacked Guns N' Roses were trying everything", as opposed to something cool like "from 1969 to 1971 The Rolling Stones managed to record one of the most highly acclaimed rock n roll albums to date while on tour partying and doing drugs all the time". Not only is the story fucking awesome, the music is a lot more genuine and modest and its so much easier to love, especially compared to pseudo epic masterpieces like This I Love, Prostitute, and Shacklers Revenge. Now you're probably asking yourself why I'm comparing Chinese Democracy to Sticky Fingers, and thats merely because Sticky Fingers is a great album that just happened like so many great albums. Chinese Democracy goes out of it's way to try and be a great album, its not a snapshot of where an artist was standing in time, minding their own business writing music. its a clusterfuck of ideas that snowballed over 15 years and the music suffers because of it. I understand putting a lot into your work, but you need to know when to stop, and I don't think Axl had much of a grasp on that. But it is what it is.

Great post. I think Axl felt the responsible thing to do as the frontman of Gn'R, was to use all the resources available to him to create music that's on par with what's been done with the old members that's left.

I mean, can you imagine what it's like to lose the musical partners that put out Appetite and UYI and trying to rebuild a band to follow it all by yourself? seems to me that's a tall order.

I'm guessing he wanted to honor the Guns N' Roses name and idea of that band with an album that would at least satisfy his idea of the Gn'R standard, which is ironic considering the negative perception of him because this very attempt by a lot of Guns fans (this fan not included)

Maybe Chinese Democracy lacks the conditions to make a spontaneouse, fun and consistent album, but maybe all that was going on before the making of the album and during it, just didn't allow it for an artist with the frame of mind of reaching his goal no matter how grandiose it was. In the end, it was a very planned album, but not fake and imo does seem to reflect a very broad spectrum of real emotions.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Rovim

[phaeryen]

do you think the balance between old and new is right? what worked for the album and what failed in your opinion?

What fails is the overworking, obviously. Its not a cohesive body of work, that an album should always be, and chinese D is not cohesive and complete by a long shot.

Moby, who Axl was trying to recruit to produce his record, said that Axl was like a washed out dog, insecure about what he was doing. A sad mess of a man.

I will agree about the lack of cohesiveness on CD.

When did Moby say that? I don't recall that...

Moby never said it.

He said Axl was like a "beaten dog", no mention of him being a "sad mess" or "washed out" - phaeryen is talking shizz.

you go and dig that shit up, he wasn't nice is what he was.

if I come and wash your dog, or beat it down with a stick, which will leave it more broken and fucked up? believe me, you don't want me beating your dog with a fucking stick. unless you want to get rid of it.

Shut up you dick. You said he said it, you dig it up. Good luck finding it, he never said it!

Here's what he said:

"He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious," says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. "He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

but I was not lying, as you imply. you motherless fuck-a-doo.

Well you weren't telling the truth were you, what would you call that?

It was just how I remembered it.

further down the article, moby speaks up again. there he voices his guesstimation of chinese D never coming out. or more rather, that he would not be surprised if it didn't come out.

what is that saying about his view on axl? Theyre both recording musicians, one approaches the other for a producers job, it doesn't happen, then the other is saying that he thinks the other guy will never get his album done. I think that is massively negative.

youre discussing ten year old stuff like the actual wording has so much relevancy to anything at this time. I dont get what is your intention. I guess you just wanted to get to say that im talking fizz or something.

fuck you, your mother and your dog, eat shit and whatever. just to give it back to you one more time.

you completely owned your own ass by bringing that article, it just proves that youre a sorryass nitpicker and nothing more. ill open up a cold one in remembrance of your now completely lost credibility as poster here.

Edited July 29, 2010 by phaeryen

[axl8302]

do you think the balance between old and new is right? what worked for the album and what failed in your opinion?

What fails is the overworking, obviously. Its not a cohesive body of work, that an album should always be, and chinese D is not cohesive and complete by a long shot.

Moby, who Axl was trying to recruit to produce his record, said that Axl was like a washed out dog, insecure about what he was doing. A sad mess of a man.

I will agree about the lack of cohesiveness on CD.

When did Moby say that? I don't recall that...

Moby never said it.

He said Axl was like a "beaten dog", no mention of him being a "sad mess" or "washed out" - phaeryen is talking shizz.

you go and dig that shit up, he wasn't nice is what he was.

if I come and wash your dog, or beat it down with a stick, which will leave it more broken and fucked up? believe me, you don't want me beating your dog with a fucking stick. unless you want to get rid of it.

Shut up you dick. You said he said it, you dig it up. Good luck finding it, he never said it!

Here's what he said:

"He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious," says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. "He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

but I was not lying, as you imply. you motherless fuck-a-doo.

Well you weren't telling the truth were you, what would you call that?

It was just how I remembered it.

further down the article, moby speaks up again. there he voices his guesstimation of chinese D never coming out. or more rather, that he would not be surprised if it didn't come out.

what is that saying about his view on axl? Theyre both recording musicians, one approaches the other for a producers job, it doesn't happen, then the other is saying that he thinks the other guy will never get his album done. I think that is massively negative.

youre discussing ten year old stuff like the actual wording has so much relevancy to anything at this time. I dont get what is your intention. I guess you just wanted to get to say that im talking fizz or something.

fuck you, your mother and your dog, eat shit and whatever. just to give it back to you one more time.

you completely owned your own ass by bringing that article, it just proves that youre a sorryass nitpicker and nothing more. ill open up a cold one in remembrance of your now completely lost credibility as poster here.

You're such a sore loser... stop crying man, it's the internet not real life - you'll be OK.

You're obviously a virgin, so I realize you've got to get your kicks some where - trolling forums is probably one of the most exciting points of your day, so go to it, have fun man, call me what you like tough guy.

You posted lies, I called you on it, you lost - pretty simple shit head.

Edited July 29, 2010 by axl8302

[Chris 55]

My MAJOR piss off with chinese democracy is the minute long intro to the title track, It was great on the first listen, but after sitting through it 5000 times im fucking sick of it, just cut it to the guitar intro + scream, such a fucking bloated intro thats just jibberish chinese people

White Zombie did that too. SO annoying.

[phaeryen]

do you think the balance between old and new is right? what worked for the album and what failed in your opinion?

What fails is the overworking, obviously. Its not a cohesive body of work, that an album should always be, and chinese D is not cohesive and complete by a long shot.

Moby, who Axl was trying to recruit to produce his record, said that Axl was like a washed out dog, insecure about what he was doing. A sad mess of a man.

I will agree about the lack of cohesiveness on CD.

When did Moby say that? I don't recall that...

Moby never said it.

He said Axl was like a "beaten dog", no mention of him being a "sad mess" or "washed out" - phaeryen is talking shizz.

you go and dig that shit up, he wasn't nice is what he was.

if I come and wash your dog, or beat it down with a stick, which will leave it more broken and fucked up? believe me, you don't want me beating your dog with a fucking stick. unless you want to get rid of it.

Shut up you dick. You said he said it, you dig it up. Good luck finding it, he never said it!

Here's what he said:

"He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious," says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. "He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

but I was not lying, as you imply. you motherless fuck-a-doo.

Well you weren't telling the truth were you, what would you call that?

It was just how I remembered it.

further down the article, moby speaks up again. there he voices his guesstimation of chinese D never coming out. or more rather, that he would not be surprised if it didn't come out.

what is that saying about his view on axl? Theyre both recording musicians, one approaches the other for a producers job, it doesn't happen, then the other is saying that he thinks the other guy will never get his album done. I think that is massively negative.

youre discussing ten year old stuff like the actual wording has so much relevancy to anything at this time. I dont get what is your intention. I guess you just wanted to get to say that im talking fizz or something.

fuck you, your mother and your dog, eat shit and whatever. just to give it back to you one more time.

you completely owned your own ass by bringing that article, it just proves that youre a sorryass nitpicker and nothing more. ill open up a cold one in remembrance of your now completely lost credibility as poster here.

You're such a sore loser... stop crying man, it's the internet not real life - you'll be OK.

You're obviously a virgin, so I realize you've got to get your kicks some where - trolling forums is probably one of the most exciting points of your day, so go to it, have fun man, call me what you like tough guy.

You posted lies, I called you on it, you lost - pretty simple shit head.

You're the one trolling and bringing stuff like virginity into this.

I had nothing, absolutely nothing to say to you, yet you keep yammering on, trying to cover your bare, fucked up gaping ass.

go cupcake some people who are as stupid as you and leave me alone. you already owned yourself by linking that article, so stop crying.

[axl8302]

You're such a sore loser... stop crying man, it's the internet not real life - you'll be OK.

You're obviously a virgin, so I realize you've got to get your kicks some where - trolling forums is probably one of the most exciting points of your day, so go to it, have fun man, call me what you like tough guy.

You posted lies, I called you on it, you lost - pretty simple shit head.

You're the one trolling and bringing stuff like virginity into this.

I had nothing, absolutely nothing to say to you, yet you keep yammering on, trying to cover your bare, fucked up gaping ass.

go cupcake some people who are as stupid as you and leave me alone. you already owned yourself by linking that article, so stop crying.

Sorry man, looks like I hit a nerve... it's OK to be a virgin, I promise you that one day soon, in the not so distant future - you're going to meet that perfect guy (How will you know he's the one? Believe me you'll know, you'll feel it deep inside - you'll 'just' know).

I think you're doing the right thing by waiting, you want your first time to be special - and that lucky guy (whoever he may be) is really going to love you for it.

Take care man, and sorry for upsetting you. I had no idea that you were so sensitive - keep gunning gunner!

[phaeryen]

You're such a sore loser... stop crying man, it's the internet not real life - you'll be OK.

You're obviously a virgin, so I realize you've got to get your kicks some where - trolling forums is probably one of the most exciting points of your day, so go to it, have fun man, call me what you like tough guy.

You posted lies, I called you on it, you lost - pretty simple shit head.

You're the one trolling and bringing stuff like virginity into this.

I had nothing, absolutely nothing to say to you, yet you keep yammering on, trying to cover your bare, fucked up gaping ass.

go cupcake some people who are as stupid as you and leave me alone. you already owned yourself by linking that article, so stop crying.

Sorry man, looks like I hit a nerve... it's OK to be a virgin, I promise you that one day soon, in the not so distant future - you're going to meet that perfect guy (How will you know he's the one? Believe me you'll know, you'll feel it deep inside - you'll 'just' know).

I think you're doing the right thing by waiting, you want your first time to be special - and that lucky guy (whoever he may be) is really going to love you for it.

Take care man, and sorry for upsetting you. I had no idea that you were so sensitive - keep gunning gunner!

Ahahaha.

you're still going? Seriously?

the moderating in this goddamn place nowadays...

I feel sorry for you. though generally, leading the life of the average joe IQ under 100 must have to be fucking grand.

[axl8302]

You're such a sore loser... stop crying man, it's the internet not real life - you'll be OK.

You're obviously a virgin, so I realize you've got to get your kicks some where - trolling forums is probably one of the most exciting points of your day, so go to it, have fun man, call me what you like tough guy.

You posted lies, I called you on it, you lost - pretty simple shit head.

You're the one trolling and bringing stuff like virginity into this.

I had nothing, absolutely nothing to say to you, yet you keep yammering on, trying to cover your bare, fucked up gaping ass.

go cupcake some people who are as stupid as you and leave me alone. you already owned yourself by linking that article, so stop crying.

Sorry man, looks like I hit a nerve... it's OK to be a virgin, I promise you that one day soon, in the not so distant future - you're going to meet that perfect guy (How will you know he's the one? Believe me you'll know, you'll feel it deep inside - you'll 'just' know).

I think you're doing the right thing by waiting, you want your first time to be special - and that lucky guy (whoever he may be) is really going to love you for it.

Take care man, and sorry for upsetting you. I had no idea that you were so sensitive - keep gunning gunner!

Ahahaha.

you're still going? Seriously?

the moderating in this goddamn place nowadays...

I feel sorry for you. though generally, leading the life of the average joe IQ under 100 must have to be fucking grand.

Is that how you want to play it? Cause I'll play it like that. I'll play it like Lionel Richie, all night long, lady. Oh yeah. I'll call some guys from my neck of the woods. And we're not talking about about a couple of queens who know a few grapples. We're talking about Polacks that don't have a goddamn future. That's right. We can make shit real uncomfortable around here, and that's what we're going to do.

[Nintari]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

[axl8302]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

[Ed Vega]

axl8302 - your signature is truly tasteless

[axl8302]

axl8302 - your signature is truly tasteless

What is your objection Ed?

[Nintari]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

[axl8302]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

Tips on how to post from the most hated member on the forum! Now I've seen it all.

[SunnyDRE]

do you think the balance between old and new is right? what worked for the album and what failed in your opinion?

What fails is the overworking, obviously. Its not a cohesive body of work, that an album should always be, and chinese D is not cohesive and complete by a long shot.

Moby, who Axl was trying to recruit to produce his record, said that Axl was like a washed out dog, insecure about what he was doing. A sad mess of a man.

I will agree about the lack of cohesiveness on CD.

When did Moby say that? I don't recall that...

Moby never said it.

He said Axl was like a "beaten dog", no mention of him being a "sad mess" or "washed out" - phaeryen is talking shizz.

you go and dig that shit up, he wasn't nice is what he was.

if I come and wash your dog, or beat it down with a stick, which will leave it more broken and fucked up? believe me, you don't want me beating your dog with a fucking stick. unless you want to get rid of it.

Shut up you dick. You said he said it, you dig it up. Good luck finding it, he never said it!

Here's what he said:

"He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious," says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. "He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Oh, ok,.....he didn't say, "he was washed out like a dog"; He said, "he [acted] like a beaten dog"

thanks for the clarification.

[axl8302]

do you think the balance between old and new is right? what worked for the album and what failed in your opinion?

What fails is the overworking, obviously. Its not a cohesive body of work, that an album should always be, and chinese D is not cohesive and complete by a long shot.

Moby, who Axl was trying to recruit to produce his record, said that Axl was like a washed out dog, insecure about what he was doing. A sad mess of a man.

I will agree about the lack of cohesiveness on CD.

When did Moby say that? I don't recall that...

Moby never said it.

He said Axl was like a "beaten dog", no mention of him being a "sad mess" or "washed out" - phaeryen is talking shizz.

you go and dig that shit up, he wasn't nice is what he was.

if I come and wash your dog, or beat it down with a stick, which will leave it more broken and fucked up? believe me, you don't want me beating your dog with a fucking stick. unless you want to get rid of it.

Shut up you dick. You said he said it, you dig it up. Good luck finding it, he never said it!

Here's what he said:

"He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious," says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. "He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Oh, ok,.....he didn't say, "he was washed out like a dog"; He said, "he [acted] like a beaten dog"

thanks for the clarification.

Oh, you're more than welcome.

[Graveyard]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

You have to be the biggest asshole on this site, and everyone knows it. Hell, you're probably proud of it.

[SunnyDRE]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

You have to be the biggest asshole on this site, and everyone knows it. Hell, you're probably proud of it.

Not everyone...I think he is one of the best poster's in the N&D section.

[Graeme]

Wow... this went from being one of the most insightful and thought provoking threads on D&N in a long time to a petty war of words pretty quickly.

[HB3]

Wow... this went from being one of the most insightful and thought provoking threads on D&N in a long time to a petty war of words pretty quickly.

I was thinking the same thing. I was pretty proud that this thread wasn't being polluted with Axl vs. Slash/Classic Guns vs. Current Guns arguments.

But alas, people always find something to argue about.

Not to say I'm not guilty of getting in feuds about a topic totally different from the original post. But still, I liked where this thread was going.

[Nintari]

Arguments are fine imo as long as they're on topic and not personal. Once the insults begin, then it's just wrong. I don't come here to sift through a bunch of grown men fighting like it's 5th grade all over again.

[axl8302]

Arguments are fine imo as long as they're on topic and not personal. Once the insults begin, then it's just wrong. I don't come here to sift through a bunch of grown men fighting like it's 5th grade all over again.

Do you really think this new upstanding forum member charade is fooling anybody?

[HB3]

Arguments are fine imo as long as they're on topic and not personal. Once the insults begin, then it's just wrong. I don't come here to sift through a bunch of grown men fighting like it's 5th grade all over again.

You're a sexist!!! Not everybody on here is a man!!!

Haha, just imitating a few posters on this forum. I'm just playing around.