The 'more is more' approach of Chinese Democracy

[Nintari]

Arguments are fine imo as long as they're on topic and not personal. Once the insults begin, then it's just wrong. I don't come here to sift through a bunch of grown men fighting like it's 5th grade all over again.

You're a sexist!!! Not everybody on here is a man!!!

Haha, just imitating a few posters on this forum. I'm just playing around.

lol...I gotta admit, you got me there for a second. I was like...what? Sexism? haha

[SunnyDRE]

Arguments are fine imo as long as they're on topic and not personal. Once the insults begin, then it's just wrong. I don't come here to sift through a bunch of grown men fighting like it's 5th grade all over again.

Do you really think this new upstanding forum member charade is fooling anybody?

**raises hand**

[axl8302]

Arguments are fine imo as long as they're on topic and not personal. Once the insults begin, then it's just wrong. I don't come here to sift through a bunch of grown men fighting like it's 5th grade all over again.

Do you really think this new upstanding forum member charade is fooling anybody?

**raises hand**

Get a room.

[Graveyard]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

You have to be the biggest asshole on this site, and everyone knows it. Hell, you're probably proud of it.

Not everyone...I think he is one of the best poster's in the N&D section.

i'm sure you do believe that. Both of you can't stand the fact that some people are cool with whats going on in the world of GnR today and like the members of the band and appreciate ChiDem. So you cupcake the N&D section as opposed to staying in the sections made specifically for folks who have a complex about moving on from 20 years ago.

[Nintari]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

You have to be the biggest asshole on this site, and everyone knows it. Hell, you're probably proud of it.

Not everyone...I think he is one of the best poster's in the N&D section.

i'm sure you do believe that. Both of you can't stand the fact that some people are cool with whats going on in the world of GnR today and like the members of the band and appreciate ChiDem. So you cupcake the N&D section as opposed to staying in the sections made specifically for folks who have a complex about moving on from 20 years ago.

Don't know HOW many times recently I've praised on CD, said I bought it day one, said I spin it daily, said it's better then bla bla bla. Apparently you and a few others don't want to acknowledge that for whatever reason.

But, whatever. If you wanna keep this up, keep it up. Sooner or later, you'll get bored or banned. I hope it's the former, not the latter but you'll be judge of that, not me.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Nintari

[Jakey Styley]

This thread is a goddamn disgrace to the forum.

as is your presence.

At the pace you're going, it won't be long before you don't have to put up with my "presence" anymore. You can't just go from thread to thread, insulting people left and right. You will get banned sooner or later. If I were you, I'd use the PM box and stop spreading it all over the forum.

You have to be the biggest asshole on this site, and everyone knows it. Hell, you're probably proud of it.

Not everyone...I think he is one of the best poster's in the N&D section.

i'm sure you do believe that. Both of you can't stand the fact that some people are cool with whats going on in the world of GnR today and like the members of the band and appreciate ChiDem. So you cupcake the N&D section as opposed to staying in the sections made specifically for folks who have a complex about moving on from 20 years ago.

Don't know HOW many times recently I've praised on CD, said I bought it day one, said I spin it daily, said it's better then bla bla bla. Apparently you and a few others don't want to acknowledge that for whatever reason.

But, whatever. If you wanna keep this up, keep it up. Sooner or later, you'll get bored or banned. I hope it's the former, not the latter but you'll be judge of that, not me.

Gotta say, people need to stop hating on Nintari.

SunnyDre is kindof a different story..

[bacardimayne]

Gotta say, people need to stop hating on Nintari.

He's pulled a complete 180 since he first joined. It's hilarious.

[Use Your Delusion 1]

back on topic, I think without Bumblefoot CD would really suck, he gives it a Appetite grove that buckethead et al. lacked. Thank god it didn't come out around 2000 or the whole thing would be some goddamn awful industrial album. I think 2006 was the year that it should have arrived, by then Axl had learnt the error of his ways.

[Ed Vega]

Bumblefoot and Frank ruined CD IMO

[phaeryen]

Bumblefoot and Frank ruined CD IMO

It was a completely blown house of cards already. doesn't matter what shit or caramel you try to lay on top, its going to end up being a wasted effort, since the foundation had caved in under all these years, producers, engineers, mixing... I don't think you'd really need Frank in there at all, same with bumble, but I guess Axl wanted to add them onto the record because he was too sensitive of criticism. towards his "revolving door of musicians" thing.

It would be so cool to know which song was written at what time and so on. Now we're left out to just play the guessing game. Theres some moments, songs, on the album that really feel quite good. like Sorry and If The World. they just make me wonder how old they are. Sorry is just bad ass, If The World is Axl trying to beat Patton in a FNM game. both work quite nicely. ultimately most of the other stuff just doesn't strike me as very thought out or of high quality material.

its also quite amazing how fucked up some of the orchestrations are, I mean, dropping them out most of the time would have been the better choice. they just convolute the mix and *DON'T* add a sense of grandeur. most of the time. I guess Axl was hellbent on trying to do November Rain allover again. I think it didn't come together for him, sadly.

[Rovim]

Bumblefoot and Frank ruined CD IMO

I disagree. I think Bumblefoot gave Chinese Democracy the fluidity it needed. Another dimension on top of the foundation Bucket and Robin laid in the form of even more crazy guitar lines to go with Bucket's insanity. (Chinese Democracy - the song comes to mind)

I remember being very worried about his inclusion just before the release, being a huge Buckethead and Robin fan, but after hearing what he added, and really listen to the album until now, I think it was the right choice to add his take on it and I love most of his contributions.

This album was already like a salad of a lot of different styles, so I think because of that and his great talent, adding Ron didn't hurt the quality of the material, it only made it stronger imo.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Rovim

[Estranged 14]

Ron made a couple of maybe bland efforts sound more like guns and he done it with a fretless, epic!

Drums, Franks good but i think maybe axl thought that the Brain Bucket combo was great and was interested in trying bumble/frank/fortus.

I'm really interested in what happened with the delay axl always says periodically he would present the album to the studio who would remain unimpressed and tell him to work some more which is why we got a greatest hits package instead of the kind of sticky fingers moment in time album that was mentioned in a previous post.

[phaeryen]

Ron made a couple of maybe bland efforts sound more like guns and he done it with a fretless, epic!

Drums, Franks good but i think maybe axl thought that the Brain Bucket combo was great and was interested in trying bumble/frank/fortus.

I'm really interested in what happened with the delay axl always says periodically he would present the album to the studio who would remain unimpressed and tell him to work some more which is why we got a greatest hits package instead of the kind of sticky fingers moment in time album that was mentioned in a previous post.

Actually it would be really interesting to hear the A&R point of view on this.

who were the people at the label who actually "kept sending axl back to work", theyve been getting bashed, as a general group, for something like ten years now and never has any of them spoken up.

Was that what really happened? label refused to release some certain version of CD? I doubt it. I actually think its bullshit.

I think the only thing that ever really kept the record coming out from 1999 to first two quarters of 2008, was Axls laziness/perfectionism.

If you think youre a cool little gonzo journalist or one in the making, please go into the music biz trenches and investigate this! THANK YOU!

[HB3]

Ron made a couple of maybe bland efforts sound more like guns and he done it with a fretless, epic!

Drums, Franks good but i think maybe axl thought that the Brain Bucket combo was great and was interested in trying bumble/frank/fortus.

I'm really interested in what happened with the delay axl always says periodically he would present the album to the studio who would remain unimpressed and tell him to work some more which is why we got a greatest hits package instead of the kind of sticky fingers moment in time album that was mentioned in a previous post.

who were the people at the label who actually "kept sending axl back to work", theyve been getting bashed, as a general group, for something like ten years now and never has any of them spoken up.

You really think they'd want to speak up? And have every GN'R fan out there bashing them and making them look like fools?

I've even heard that people at the label rejected the upcoming album that the band wanted out in June/July. So now it's rumored to be released in November.

[Ed Vega]

Seriously?????

Do you honestly think it's the label somehow holding up the release?????

The record company doesn't make any money by rejecting records - THEY ONLY GET PAID BY ALBUM SALES - which, BTW, can't happen unless the album is released.

Their only interest is in getting the music out as quickly as possible.

W. Axl Rose is the lone hold-up.

I would have thought that would be patently obvious to everyone here after what's gone on for the past 17 years.

[HB3]

Seriously?????

Do you honestly think it's the label somehow holding up the release?????

The record company doesn't make any money by rejecting records - THEY ONLY GET PAID BY ALBUM SALES - which, BTW, can't happen unless the album is released.

Their only interest is in getting the music out as quickly as possible.

W. Axl Rose is the lone hold-up.

I would have thought that would be patently obvious to everyone here after what's gone on for the past 17 years.

Yes, I believe it is.

People have said that the label thought it was too rushed or something. If they don't think the album will sell well and it needs tweaking, then they'll reject it. They aren't going to release music thrown together in a week.

But I don't think that's the problem with Guns N' Roses. I think the problem is that the music industry hates Guns and vice versa.

Edited July 30, 2010 by HB3

[phaeryen]

Seriously?????

Do you honestly think it's the label somehow holding up the release?????

The record company doesn't make any money by rejecting records - THEY ONLY GET PAID BY ALBUM SALES - which, BTW, can't happen unless the album is released.

Their only interest is in getting the music out as quickly as possible.

W. Axl Rose is the lone hold-up.

I would have thought that would be patently obvious to everyone here after what's gone on for the past 17 years.

Yes, I believe it is.

People have said that the label thought it was too rushed or something. If they don't think the album will sell well and it needs tweaking, then they'll reject it. They aren't going to release music thrown together in a week.

But I don't think that's the problem with Guns N' Roses. I think the problem is that the music industry hates Guns and vice versa.

Thats nineties logic bro.

CD1 demonstrated that GNR franchise generates tremendous sales on the name of the band alone, no additional promotion required.

Of course theyd put out the second album, right about now or so. or in the spring.

trouble is, there is no second album. not atleast before its recorded.

[Rovim]

Ron made a couple of maybe bland efforts sound more like guns and he done it with a fretless, epic!

Drums, Franks good but i think maybe axl thought that the Brain Bucket combo was great and was interested in trying bumble/frank/fortus.

I'm really interested in what happened with the delay axl always says periodically he would present the album to the studio who would remain unimpressed and tell him to work some more which is why we got a greatest hits package instead of the kind of sticky fingers moment in time album that was mentioned in a previous post.

I don't know. Some people don't seem to realize the extra time from '99 to 2002 could have maybe benefited the album. Songs that were missing important parts like Bucket's outro in There Was A Time, didn't even existed if the album would have been released in '99.

Hell, maybe Bucket would have never even been considered as one of the band's lead guitar players. Remember, Axl admitted that the 3 guitar players thing happened by accident and then added that it was 'obviously the right choice'.

My point being that while the album suffered from too much tinkering in a lot of ways, it also gained the advantage of having more time to fix some mistakes

(like the ridicolous 'you know I know you know better' line that was changed or putting Robin's second I.R.S solo in the end which didn't really fit there imo)

I would love to hear the '99 version of Chinese Democracy as I think Oh My God was a musical success, but some parts of some songs are probably better as they are on the actual released material and maybe This I Love inclusion in the release would have never happened in an earlier date.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Rovim

[HB3]

Seriously?????

Do you honestly think it's the label somehow holding up the release?????

The record company doesn't make any money by rejecting records - THEY ONLY GET PAID BY ALBUM SALES - which, BTW, can't happen unless the album is released.

Their only interest is in getting the music out as quickly as possible.

W. Axl Rose is the lone hold-up.

I would have thought that would be patently obvious to everyone here after what's gone on for the past 17 years.

Yes, I believe it is.

People have said that the label thought it was too rushed or something. If they don't think the album will sell well and it needs tweaking, then they'll reject it. They aren't going to release music thrown together in a week.

But I don't think that's the problem with Guns N' Roses. I think the problem is that the music industry hates Guns and vice versa.

Thats nineties logic bro.

CD1 demonstrated that GNR franchise generates tremendous sales on the name of the band alone, no additional promotion required.

Of course theyd put out the second album, right about now or so. or in the spring.

trouble is, there is no second album. not atleast before its recorded.

I find it hard to believe the band is just going to throw away all the songs from the CD sessions.

I believe there's an album made and ready to be released. Not saying it's a fact or anything, just what I believe. An perhaps my beliefs are being biased by my wants.

[wasted]

CD is Led Zeppelin for the ringtone generation. Axl nailed it.

[tat2d1]

No matter what, the album was never going to live up to the hype. I'd say the overproduced sound & lack of catchy choruses didn't help the album any.

I'm hoping DJ was brought in to be more than just a guitarist. I believe with DJ & Ron on board they could make a GnR album that sounds more like old school GnR with a modern edge.

DJ helped write & produce Motley Crue's "Saints Of Los Angeles" album, which imo, is their best work since Feelgood, and captures the Crue's "classic" sound with a more modern edge.

Take a listen to his work on the 1st Beautiful Creatures album, the dude can write some good, catchy tunes. If Axl will allow him to fully utilize his skills, the next GnR album could be KILLER, and have the band on top of the hard rock "world" once again.

[J Dog]

No matter what, the album was never going to live up to the hype. I'd say the overproduced sound & lack of catchy choruses didn't help the album any.

I'm hoping DJ was brought in to be more than just a guitarist. I believe with DJ & Ron on board they could make a GnR album that sounds more like old school GnR with a modern edge.

DJ helped write & produce Motley Crue's "Saints Of Los Angeles" album, which imo, is their best work since Feelgood, and captures the Crue's "classic" sound with a more modern edge.

Take a listen to his work on the 1st Beautiful Creatures album, the dude can write some good, catchy tunes. If Axl will allow him to fully utilize his skills, the next GnR album could be KILLER, and have the band on top of the hard rock "world" once again.

If Dj and Nicki Sixx can come up with Saints of Los Angeles and The Heroin Diaries, Im sure Dj,Ron and Axl can make something pretty good

[Rovim]

No matter what, the album was never going to live up to the hype. I'd say the overproduced sound & lack of catchy choruses didn't help the album any.

I'm hoping DJ was brought in to be more than just a guitarist. I believe with DJ & Ron on board they could make a GnR album that sounds more like old school GnR with a modern edge.

DJ helped write & produce Motley Crue's "Saints Of Los Angeles" album, which imo, is their best work since Feelgood, and captures the Crue's "classic" sound with a more modern edge.

Take a listen to his work on the 1st Beautiful Creatures album, the dude can write some good, catchy tunes. If Axl will allow him to fully utilize his skills, the next GnR album could be KILLER, and have the band on top of the hard rock "world" once again.

If Dj and Nicki Sixx can come up with Saints of Los Angeles and The Heroin Diaries, Im sure Dj,Ron and Axl can make something pretty good

'Pretty good' is not good enough. If it's not at the quality of Chinese Democracy or the unreleased Robin/Bucket material, than it's not worth releasing. It's got to be at least on par with what we have from new Guns until now. Not saying they can't pull it off though.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Rovim

[Stro]

It was said early in the thread that Bumblefoot saved CD, and I'd go far to say he has saved the band. If Bucket was the spine of GNR in the post Slash era, Bumble has been the heart of GNR in the post Bucket-era. I think he is the main reason for the current cohesiveness and over all look of the band of the past 4 years. He probably has more of the original band's sprit than even Axl has right now.

[Aussiegun]

I think with the old GNR sound, the formula for the classic GNR songs are pretty much - decent intro/riff, material people can relate to, a mini solo,and a main solo.

The problem with alot of the Chi Dem songs is that they dont have great a great intro. Plus the subject matter (which is fairly self indulgent), will fly over the casual listeners head if it isn't that catchy.