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I haven't listened to any stuff from that era in years and it sounds so strange now.

The thing that strikes me tyhe most is how despite Axl saying he doesn't play one single note for the online fans, he went out of his way to change his singing style after he got slaughtered on the boards in 02. That Osaka Blues performance is Axl singing correctly and naturally with perfect control. Actually fucking singing not screaming or forcing roughness. Starting in 06 and even moreso in 2010 he's gone out of his way to sound the way people remember him from the early days and although I hope i'm wrong i'm sure it's going to take years of the end of his singing career.

It's funny because he says he doesn't play live for some guy on the net on another continent (which I completely get) yet he changed his singing style after the boards trashed his 02 voice despite the reviews being positive about his voice if nothing else and he took Brian May's solo off Catcher due to our apparent lack of enthusiasm for it. So he obviously does give a shit what we 'hardcore' fans think and his comments in the chats suggest he reads us na LOT and has notes on individual members going back years. But yet for whatever reason this doesn't crossover into him thinking it might be a good or nice idea to throw just one bone into the setlist.

When Don't Cry came back it was an event for me. I was crying watching that first video from Chiba in 06 where he came out with Ron after Paradise and nailed it as some kind of special thank you to the crowd. And there's been some cool fun little things since like Nice Boys and Rosie. But he knows full well we'd all bust our loads everywhere if he dropped in the occasional Locomotive or Estranged.

Sorry i'm wayy off topic. I love the extra scream in Osaka Blues going into the final piano breakdown. And it's cool hoe he sings so high so effortlessly in the outro, doing the extra high part he does on the album which he rarely does. These days he often struggles to do even the lower lines in the outro sometimes just screeching it all out on one level. But that's the result from trying to appease heardcore message board fans by trying to sound like he did when he was 30.

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LOL So Axl changed his voice for the online fans? :rofl-lol:

Why are you rofl-ing at that? He himself said he took Brian's solo off catcher because of lack of enthusiasm on the boards for it. It's very likely he's made other major decisions about the new music based on what we've said regarding the leaks. Why is it such a stretch to suggest that after tens and tens of threads on all the boards blasting his 'helium mickey mouse' voice in 2002 that when he came back in 2006 he made an effort to start singing more like he used to in the early 90s?

I don't just think it's likely to be the reason why he decided to start singing in such a damaging way again, I don't think there's any other plausible reason why he would do it. Like I said, the press reviews of the 2002 shows virtually all said 'he's still got the amazing voice' before going on to trash the band. So the press wasn't the reason, with the exception of the reviews of the VMSs where people understanadably said 'his voice is shot' because it sounded like it was gone.

He's said that in 01-02 he was trying a different way of singing and since that way happened to be singing properly without damaging the voice I think it's pretty likely that was the whole point. Why else would he suddenly go back to screeching and screaming and damaging the absolute fuck out of his voice in his late 40s if not because most of us trashed him for singing clean?

Edited by Jordan Rose
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'Quotes'? It's all in the forum chats. Have a read. With the exception of his one comment on his singing style which came from a girl from HTGTH who posted pics with Axl from backstage at an 02 show. She asked him why he sounded different to which he replied 'I'm just trying a different way of singing.'

I don't have time to make up quotes to support a theory which is pretty likely anyway. I thought it was a given that everyone on the boards naturally assumed Axl changed his singing style after being trashed in 02. Certainly haven't heard any other theories as to why he did.

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I love that version, the only thing I miss when listening to it is the soloing towards the end. i think Fortus actually plays that if im not mistaken? that was a really good addition to the song

It's Bucket in the studio version and Fortus live.

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The HOB is a better performance than Rio. That being said, I really love the 2001/2002 version of the song. The clean high voice worked very well for it. It's probably the only CD song that I regularly listen to from 2001/2002 as often as I do from the album and 2010. I believe the "never mind" was due to something with his ear monitor needing adjusted.

I don't remember SoD HOB performance at all. I remember that Axl said a lot about CD song meaning before playing it and wow it was great. We should really get some videos from that day. :(

HOB (01-01-01) -The Blues

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O1U1B46U

If you want the complete show let me know!

Yes, please. Thanks! violin.gif

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LOL So Axl changed his voice for the online fans? :rofl-lol:

Why are you rofl-ing at that? He himself said he took Brian's solo off catcher because of lack of enthusiasm on the boards for it. It's very likely he's made other major decisions about the new music based on what we've said regarding the leaks. Why is it such a stretch to suggest that after tens and tens of threads on all the boards blasting his 'helium mickey mouse' voice in 2002 that when he came back in 2006 he made an effort to start singing more like he used to in the early 90s?

I don't just think it's likely to be the reason why he decided to start singing in such a damaging way again, I don't think there's any other plausible reason why he would do it. Like I said, the press reviews of the 2002 shows virtually all said 'he's still got the amazing voice' before going on to trash the band. So the press wasn't the reason, with the exception of the reviews of the VMSs where people understanadably said 'his voice is shot' because it sounded like it was gone.

He's said that in 01-02 he was trying a different way of singing and since that way happened to be singing properly without damaging the voice I think it's pretty likely that was the whole point. Why else would he suddenly go back to screeching and screaming and damaging the absolute fuck out of his voice in his late 40s if not because most of us trashed him for singing clean?

source on any of this shit? and he never said that in regard to brian may solo
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Yeah, he never said that about Brian May solo. He did say Brian praised it after the leak even though he (May) didn't like it when Axl showed him how he "build" the solo from several different takes.

About the way Axl sang in 2001/02, I believe it wasn't exactly for the online fans, but rather for the fans in general. He did tried more of his rasp in LALD and SOD (some parts of it) in the later 2002 dates, tho. I think he just isn't taking care of the way he sings anymore, hence why he's back with the full rasp and worse range than before.

==

Regarding The Blues, that intro riff wasn't Robin, but Paul Tobias (and later Richard Fortus). And the Osaka '02 version is like one of the few where we can listen to some of Paul/Fortus awesome rhythm guitar in the outro. It's a shame both that little riff and Robin's arpeggio were gone of the final mix in the studio album.

Edited by Voodoochild
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Listen guys, any singer knows that if you don't train your voice like you would train any other part of your body it get's weak. Axl's voice from 01 to 02 is directly related to the known fact that he went years without singing. I'm going to bet that from about 2005 till now he has been doing vocal exercises to get his voice back to where it is today. Look at the 02 MSG concert. He sang far better on that show than he did the whole tour because his throat was starting to become accustomed to singing again. Look at the first show in 2009 and then compare his voice to the last show in 2010. Look at any of the first live versions of TIL and then the later versions. It's a fact guys, coming from a singer myself, it is how the body works. Another good example is Tom Keifer from CInderella (great underrated band btw). He pretty much lost his voice due to poor singing style (and a hemmorage) and took a few years off to retrain his voice and now he actually sounds just as good as he did in the 80's.

Edited by HollyWoodRose84
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I love that version, the only thing I miss when listening to it is the soloing towards the end. i think Fortus actually plays that if im not mistaken? that was a really good addition to the song

It's Bucket in the studio version and Fortus live.

shit you're right! it has that signature lick of his that he play's in like every solo, can't believe i never noticed that

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LOL So Axl changed his voice for the online fans? :rofl-lol:

Why are you rofl-ing at that? He himself said he took Brian's solo off catcher because of lack of enthusiasm on the boards for it. It's very likely he's made other major decisions about the new music based on what we've said regarding the leaks. Why is it such a stretch to suggest that after tens and tens of threads on all the boards blasting his 'helium mickey mouse' voice in 2002 that when he came back in 2006 he made an effort to start singing more like he used to in the early 90s?

I don't just think it's likely to be the reason why he decided to start singing in such a damaging way again, I don't think there's any other plausible reason why he would do it. Like I said, the press reviews of the 2002 shows virtually all said 'he's still got the amazing voice' before going on to trash the band. So the press wasn't the reason, with the exception of the reviews of the VMSs where people understanadably said 'his voice is shot' because it sounded like it was gone.

He's said that in 01-02 he was trying a different way of singing and since that way happened to be singing properly without damaging the voice I think it's pretty likely that was the whole point. Why else would he suddenly go back to screeching and screaming and damaging the absolute fuck out of his voice in his late 40s if not because most of us trashed him for singing clean?

You are one of those people who will say Axl should go back to the 2002 voice, and the moment he does, you'll bash it as being crappy. You want him to do something you know will get him bashed under the guise of 'caring'. You're what's called a concern cupcake, a very manipulative person.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYbeyrU5vH8

Is this just me or it's still the best Street of Dreams live performance ever back when it was still called The Blues? I mean the first or second (not sure if they did in HoB). I think the shorter intro, faster tempo, Axl being pissed and the aggressive outro made it. Do you guys know of any better (no pun intended) performance of SoD? Please post.

Yeah, Rio01 is the best version even if compared with studio, and so is Madagascar and Chinese Democracy.

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LOL So Axl changed his voice for the online fans? :rofl-lol:

Why are you rofl-ing at that? He himself said he took Brian's solo off catcher because of lack of enthusiasm on the boards for it. It's very likely he's made other major decisions about the new music based on what we've said regarding the leaks. Why is it such a stretch to suggest that after tens and tens of threads on all the boards blasting his 'helium mickey mouse' voice in 2002 that when he came back in 2006 he made an effort to start singing more like he used to in the early 90s?

I don't just think it's likely to be the reason why he decided to start singing in such a damaging way again, I don't think there's any other plausible reason why he would do it. Like I said, the press reviews of the 2002 shows virtually all said 'he's still got the amazing voice' before going on to trash the band. So the press wasn't the reason, with the exception of the reviews of the VMSs where people understanadably said 'his voice is shot' because it sounded like it was gone.

He's said that in 01-02 he was trying a different way of singing and since that way happened to be singing properly without damaging the voice I think it's pretty likely that was the whole point. Why else would he suddenly go back to screeching and screaming and damaging the absolute fuck out of his voice in his late 40s if not because most of us trashed him for singing clean?

source on any of this shit? and he never said that in regard to brian may solo

If you bothered reading the thread properly you'd see someone else already asked this dumb question and I replied. Remember the bit in 08 when the album came out and Axl spent hours and hours answering pages of questions and writing essays. Don't ask me for fucking sources, go read and find out what you think you're on about first.

'Quotes'? It's all in the forum chats. Have a read. With the exception of his one comment on his singing style which came from a girl from HTGTH who posted pics with Axl from backstage at an 02 show. She asked him why he sounded different to which he replied 'I'm just trying a different way of singing.'

I don't have time to make up quotes to support a theory which is pretty likely anyway. I thought it was a given that everyone on the boards naturally assumed Axl changed his singing style after being trashed in 02. Certainly haven't heard any other theories as to why he did.

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Yeah, he never said that about Brian May solo. He did say Brian praised it after the leak even though he (May) didn't like it when Axl showed him how he "build" the solo from several different takes.

About the way Axl sang in 2001/02, I believe it wasn't exactly for the online fans, but rather for the fans in general. He did tried more of his rasp in LALD and SOD (some parts of it) in the later 2002 dates, tho. I think he just isn't taking care of the way he sings anymore, hence why he's back with the full rasp and worse range than before.

==

Regarding The Blues, that intro riff wasn't Robin, but Paul Tobias (and later Richard Fortus). And the Osaka '02 version is like one of the few where we can listen to some of Paul/Fortus awesome rhythm guitar in the outro. It's a shame both that little riff and Robin's arpeggio were gone of the final mix in the studio album.

Yes he did say that about the Catcher solo, here's the fucking quote for fuck's sake:

Catcher is one of the best songs on the album, why no Brian?

There's a few reasons and none of them all that big and definitely not in spite or to slight anyone.

1st off obviously I knew people liked the song but the Brian appreciation really only showed up in force publicly after we had moved on in Guns. In fact Not many seemed to care and most comments were aimed at why Slash in their opinions should be here.

Brians solo itself is a personal fave of mine and I really couldn't understand as he's such a rock legend why it wasn't openly appreciated more at the time.

Oh my fucking fuck. What are you driveling on about. I didn't say he sang clean in 01/02 for the online fans!! I said it's pretty obvious he STOPPED singing clean and started screeching in 2006 because of all the threads slagging off his voice in 2002. Christ almighty.

Yes, you're right, he could still turn the rasp on and off in 2002. But the idea that his voice has changed because he doesn't take care of it anymore is absurd. Let's have a source or quote for that, shall we? His range has lowered because instead of singing properly and using his falsetto correctly as he did in 2002 he's just screaming the fuck out of his throat so he sounds the way he did in the early 90s which is what most people seem to prefer.

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Listen guys, any singer knows that if you don't train your voice like you would train any other part of your body it get's weak. Axl's voice from 01 to 02 is directly related to the known fact that he went years without singing. I'm going to bet that from about 2005 till now he has been doing vocal exercises to get his voice back to where it is today. Look at the 02 MSG concert. He sang far better on that show than he did the whole tour because his throat was starting to become accustomed to singing again. Look at the first show in 2009 and then compare his voice to the last show in 2010. Look at any of the first live versions of TIL and then the later versions. It's a fact guys, coming from a singer myself, it is how the body works. Another good example is Tom Keifer from CInderella (great underrated band btw). He pretty much lost his voice due to poor singing style (and a hemmorage) and took a few years off to retrain his voice and now he actually sounds just as good as he did in the 80's.

Everything you say is true except that in 2002 he CHOSE to sing that way. He specifically told someone that and having just spent 30 minutes trawling through the chats for the quote on Brian May for lazy fuckers who can't remember what Axl said i'm not going to trawl through HTGTH threads from 8 years ago to prove something that's fucking obvious anyway. He didn't say to himself 'I can't be fucked to re-train my voice so i'll go out and sing weakly.' He chose to sing properly and cleanly with the likely intention of preserving his voice. His mid-range voice on the older songs was weak but his falsetto was incredibly strong: listen to LALD from Pittsburgh with the highest, longest and hardest screams ever; listen to Madagscar from the Cleveland soundboard. Chiba was one of the first shows and has some fantastic performances. He tried to avoid screeching and damaging his voice like he did back in the early 90s and instead trade on his amazing range and falsetto. If you listen to the Cleveland soundboard you can hear, especially on slower songs, that he is putting huge amounts of effort into SINGING: his phrasing, pronunciation and everything else is impeccable. He thought he could get away with it. The board soon became flooded with threads ripping it. He decided to fuck it and go back to screeching.

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Listen guys, any singer knows that if you don't train your voice like you would train any other part of your body it get's weak. Axl's voice from 01 to 02 is directly related to the known fact that he went years without singing. I'm going to bet that from about 2005 till now he has been doing vocal exercises to get his voice back to where it is today. Look at the 02 MSG concert. He sang far better on that show than he did the whole tour because his throat was starting to become accustomed to singing again. Look at the first show in 2009 and then compare his voice to the last show in 2010. Look at any of the first live versions of TIL and then the later versions. It's a fact guys, coming from a singer myself, it is how the body works. Another good example is Tom Keifer from CInderella (great underrated band btw). He pretty much lost his voice due to poor singing style (and a hemmorage) and took a few years off to retrain his voice and now he actually sounds just as good as he did in the 80's.

Everything you say is true except that in 2002 he CHOSE to sing that way. He specifically told someone that and having just spent 30 minutes trawling through the chats for the quote on Brian May for lazy fuckers who can't remember what Axl said i'm not going to trawl through HTGTH threads from 8 years ago to prove something that's fucking obvious anyway. He didn't say to himself 'I can't be fucked to re-train my voice so i'll go out and sing weakly.' He chose to sing properly and cleanly with the likely intention of preserving his voice. His mid-range voice on the older songs was weak but his falsetto was incredibly strong: listen to LALD from Pittsburgh with the highest, longest and hardest screams ever; listen to Madagscar from the Cleveland soundboard. Chiba was one of the first shows and has some fantastic performances. He tried to avoid screeching and damaging his voice like he did back in the early 90s and instead trade on his amazing range and falsetto. If you listen to the Cleveland soundboard you can hear, especially on slower songs, that he is putting huge amounts of effort into SINGING: his phrasing, pronunciation and everything else is impeccable. He thought he could get away with it. The board soon became flooded with threads ripping it. He decided to fuck it and go back to screeching.

1) Axl supposedly telling someone something for which they have no proof is a rumor. I can claim I met Axl after I saw Guns at Hammerstein in 2006 and that he told me this and that but without any sort of proof, it's just a rumor and something that can easily be fabricated.

2) Axl NEVER, EVER said he changed Catcher because of the fans online. Axl's made it clear that neither he, nor his life, nor his choices, will be dictated by the fans, online or off. "Your misguided fantasies and sense of entitlement don't dictate my life" or something like that. He also told another fan here that "I don't work for you." He's his own man and does whatever HE wants, you REALLY think he'd alter a solo on a song he seemed emotionally attached to because of some message board fans?

3) His voice was horrid in 2001 and 2002. It's ace now, though. Probably the best since 1992. But let's be frank His voice had devolved and became increasingly more "Helium" sounding. You can hear this at the induction of Elton in 1994, on Sympathy for the Devil, on the 1996 Anxious Disease track, and on Oh My God. His voice had slowly devolved because he had abused it heavily for two and a half years and then didn't sing all that much until five years later. Youth, who worked with Axl around mid-late 1998, got Axl to sing again. Youth said Axl told him he hadn't sung a note in about 18 months at the time and Axl seemed very insecure about his vocals. Other people who worked with Axl in 1995, 1996, 1997 said he never sang and would act defensive when asked when he was going to sing, lay vocal tracks down.

Edited by Indigo Child
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LOL So Axl changed his voice for the online fans? :rofl-lol:

Why are you rofl-ing at that? He himself said he took Brian's solo off catcher because of lack of enthusiasm on the boards for it. It's very likely he's made other major decisions about the new music based on what we've said regarding the leaks. Why is it such a stretch to suggest that after tens and tens of threads on all the boards blasting his 'helium mickey mouse' voice in 2002 that when he came back in 2006 he made an effort to start singing more like he used to in the early 90s?

I don't just think it's likely to be the reason why he decided to start singing in such a damaging way again, I don't think there's any other plausible reason why he would do it. Like I said, the press reviews of the 2002 shows virtually all said 'he's still got the amazing voice' before going on to trash the band. So the press wasn't the reason, with the exception of the reviews of the VMSs where people understanadably said 'his voice is shot' because it sounded like it was gone.

He's said that in 01-02 he was trying a different way of singing and since that way happened to be singing properly without damaging the voice I think it's pretty likely that was the whole point. Why else would he suddenly go back to screeching and screaming and damaging the absolute fuck out of his voice in his late 40s if not because most of us trashed him for singing clean?

You are one of those people who will say Axl should go back to the 2002 voice, and the moment he does, you'll bash it as being crappy. You want him to do something you know will get him bashed under the guise of 'caring'. You're what's called a concern cupcake, a very manipulative person.

You are as thick as pig-shit and barely worth replying to. I've written tens and tens of posts, and thousands of words about Axl's voice over the last 10 years and never once have I simply 'bashed' his 2002 voice as 'crappy'. Unlike the masses of dumb-asses who write nonsensical short posts with no analysis or critical thinking like 'I think Axl wasn't smoking as much and that's why his voice sounded different and then he started again and is drinking and didn't he get a voice coach and everyhtink?' I actually wriote decent, long, thoughtful posts backed up with examples, quotes and analysis.

I've never ever simply bashed Axl: i'm more interested in the bizarre fact that he can sound terrible in one song and absolutely incredible 5 minutes later in the next. I'm interested in how he can produce so many voice over such a huge range in a 2 hour show in his late 40s. I'm interested in how long it will last and what he thinks and feels about it.

I AM genuinely concerned that He wont be able to keep singing at this level for much longer. I'd rather go and hear Axl singin clean in 10 years than hear him lose his voice in 5.

But i'm also interested in the dynamic of his vocals. The two things CAN coincide.

And what you mean by 'manipulative person' I have no idea. I'm just interested in his voice and like good discussion. The problem is there are too many people here like you who are a bit too slow to discuss or debate anything and just post short, annoying drivel messages. Piss off you tart.

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LOL So Axl changed his voice for the online fans? :rofl-lol:

Why are you rofl-ing at that? He himself said he took Brian's solo off catcher because of lack of enthusiasm on the boards for it. It's very likely he's made other major decisions about the new music based on what we've said regarding the leaks. Why is it such a stretch to suggest that after tens and tens of threads on all the boards blasting his 'helium mickey mouse' voice in 2002 that when he came back in 2006 he made an effort to start singing more like he used to in the early 90s?

I don't just think it's likely to be the reason why he decided to start singing in such a damaging way again, I don't think there's any other plausible reason why he would do it. Like I said, the press reviews of the 2002 shows virtually all said 'he's still got the amazing voice' before going on to trash the band. So the press wasn't the reason, with the exception of the reviews of the VMSs where people understanadably said 'his voice is shot' because it sounded like it was gone.

He's said that in 01-02 he was trying a different way of singing and since that way happened to be singing properly without damaging the voice I think it's pretty likely that was the whole point. Why else would he suddenly go back to screeching and screaming and damaging the absolute fuck out of his voice in his late 40s if not because most of us trashed him for singing clean?

You are one of those people who will say Axl should go back to the 2002 voice, and the moment he does, you'll bash it as being crappy. You want him to do something you know will get him bashed under the guise of 'caring'. You're what's called a concern cupcake, a very manipulative person.

You are as thick as pig-shit and barely worth replying to. I've written tens and tens of posts, and thousands of words about Axl's voice over the last 10 years and never once have I simply 'bashed' his 2002 voice as 'crappy'. Unlike the masses of dumb-asses who write nonsensical short posts with no analysis or critical thinking like 'I think Axl wasn't smoking as much and that's why his voice sounded different and then he started again and is drinking and didn't he get a voice coach and everyhtink?' I actually wriote decent, long, thoughtful posts backed up with examples, quotes and analysis.

I've never ever simply bashed Axl: i'm more interested in the bizarre fact that he can sound terrible in one song and absolutely incredible 5 minutes later in the next. I'm interested in how he can produce so many voice over such a huge range in a 2 hour show in his late 40s. I'm interested in how long it will last and what he thinks and feels about it.

I AM genuinely concerned that He wont be able to keep singing at this level for much longer. I'd rather go and hear Axl singin clean in 10 years than hear him lose his voice in 5.

But i'm also interested in the dynamic of his vocals. The two things CAN coincide.

And what you mean by 'manipulative person' I have no idea. I'm just interested in his voice and like good discussion. The problem is there are too many people here like you who are a bit too slow to discuss or debate anything and just post short, annoying drivel messages. Piss off you tart.

I too am interested in the dynamics of his vocals. Believe it or not, I have kind of replicated his singing style, except I don't have the range. I have the exact rasp though. It took YEARS of practice though. Naturally my voice is I believe a baritone; I sing Elvis or Morrison-esque naturally but I can go Axl-ish when I want to. It takes a lot of air, and strain. It can make the throat hurt like hell if I sing like it for a prolonged period and leaves my speaking voice sounding deeper and alittle crackly. I don't smoke or drink at all.

I don't think he's at risk for losing his voice, though. He's been singing like this since at least 1983 (Hollywood Rose demos) and he's done pretty well with it. He seems to have kind of mastered that style of singing.

What I love about Axl's vocals is that he has SO MANY voices. Like all sorts of variations on his voice. He can sound like two different people on two different tracks. Look at My World and all the voices he uses on that, or Sympathy for the Devil; Look at "I don't care about you"--He doesn't even sound like "himself" on it. He has like a dozen different voices. THAT'S what interests me more than his vocals in general.

I'm sorry for attacking you, this forum has just been tense lately and it's rubbed off on me a bit. I'd like to continue this discussion civilly as you do seem to know your shit. Once again, my apologies.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYbeyrU5vH8

Is this just me or it's still the best Street of Dreams live performance ever back when it was still called The Blues? I mean the first or second (not sure if they did in HoB). I think the shorter intro, faster tempo, Axl being pissed and the aggressive outro made it. Do you guys know of any better (no pun intended) performance of SoD? Please post.

He looks a lil lost in this due to mic problems I think! I prefer the HOB blues performance-more soulful.

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