Is GN'R too clustered now?

[Vincent Vega]

In another thread I suggested the Stones have three guitarists, but I have to be honest:

In the case of GN'R, I think having three guitarists and two keyboardists really clutters the sound live. It never allows for just one lead guitarist to really shine live, and in the studio well it's 5 guitar players which makes the sound in the studio totally cluttered.

Does anyone think GN'R having three guitarists and two keyboard players is a little much? Considering that Axl also knows how to play piano. I've never gotten why Dizzy is still needed in the band when you have Chris.

My ideal band set up = a vocalist, two guitars, a bass, a drum, and a piano player. A six piece band is perfect. You can have sidemen like a sax player or backing vocal girls as guests on records and live, and maybe a second keyboard player live...But Idk..it just makes the sound in GN'R a little more cluttered.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Indigo Child

[(t)]

No.

[Cuban Skies]

No. Not for the Chinese Democracy songs.

And remember, Brain almost toured with the band.

[Vincent Vega]

No. Not for the Chinese Democracy songs.

And remember, Brain almost toured with the band.

Which would've meant a vocalist, two lead guitarists, a rhythm guitarist, a bassist, two drummers and two keyboardists.

Why couldn't a six piece band play the CD songs? Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones handled all of Zep's material, even their complex stuff, live with ease. And this was in the 70s when concert technology was still in many ways in it's infancy. It can be done.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Indigo Child

[FuddMckagan]

I always thought 3 guitarists was a little much. Especially when all of them are really lead guitar players (Richard is a lead player, really)

Meh, Slipknot has 9 members. They seem to get by ok.

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

What is your agenda Indigo Child? Bumblefoot, Dj and Richard all compliment one another in a live capacity. The systematic approach to solos etc. works very well in my opinion. Dizzy is important for having another link to the past (simply because any further pressure on Axl is unnecessary), his presence is also necessary because certain songs entail both the piano and synth (e.g. “This I Love”).

[Vincent Vega]

I always thought 3 guitarists was a little much. Especially when all of them are really lead guitar players (Richard is a lead player, really)

Meh, Slipknot has 9 members. They seem to get by ok.

Yeah but Slipknot is a bit heavier than GN'R ever was, aren't they? They're more like a metal band.

I dunno, I always felt Guns was like Gilby once said: "a loud version of the Rolling Stones." With a pinch of Judas Priest, Elton, and Queen added.

[HB3]

No. I love the band how it is now. Youtube videos don't do the band justice at all. You have to be there live to fully appreciate the talent of this band.

November Rain is just one example of how incredible this band is. They all mesh together perfectly. I believe every band member has an important role in how everything sounds.

I'm sure the next album will need the big sound too. I always get the feeling that The General is going to be in my top five GN'R songs. I always think that Chris is going to make that song huge for some reason.

[Vincent Vega]

What is your agenda Indigo Child? Bumblefoot, Dj and Richard all compliment one another in a live capacity. The systematic approach to solos etc. works very well in my opinion. Dizzy is important for having another link to the past (simply because any further pressure on Axl is unnecessary), his presence is also necessary because certain songs entail both the piano and synth (e.g. “This I Love”).

This is how multiple guitarists should jive.

The solo from 0:00 to 1:21 is Keith, and then from 1:21 to 3:39 the solo is Mick Taylor. Look at how well two very different guitarists blend together.

For me that combination of guitarists is the ''gold standard'' for Rock N' Roll guitar duos. I've never been a fan of more than two guitarists. Two is the perfect number.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Indigo Child

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

No. Not for the Chinese Democracy songs.

And remember, Brain almost toured with the band.

Which would've meant a vocalist, two lead guitarists, a rhythm guitarist, a bassist, two drummers and two keyboardists.

Why couldn't a six piece band play the CD songs? Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones handled all of Zep's material, even their complex stuff, live with ease. And this was in the 70s when concert technology was still in many ways in it's infancy. It can be done.

But why not have 3 guitars and 2 keyboards though? It's only a positive thing. Makes the band unique. More input from different individuals to songwriting too.

There are parts on CD where at least 3 guitar tracks are playing different things. I agree that it could be stripped down, but why?

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

Thats a tough question to answer because I feel all the 'sounds' are needed to preform the CD songs.

However at times it can be difficult to hear some instruments live but also felt that about the CD album itself. At times I felt there was too many layers and that I would have preffered it a little stripped down. I prefer some of the old leaks to the final versions. However its what makes CD sound like it does and I guess its needed.

Axl knows what he wants and how to do it and I trust his judgement for what is needed.

I think the biggest cluster (image wise) was back in '02. It looked like a circus. It's a shame Buckethead looked so ridiclious, what a player. Sorry went off topic there really.

[Vincent Vega]

No. Not for the Chinese Democracy songs.

And remember, Brain almost toured with the band.

Which would've meant a vocalist, two lead guitarists, a rhythm guitarist, a bassist, two drummers and two keyboardists.

Why couldn't a six piece band play the CD songs? Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones handled all of Zep's material, even their complex stuff, live with ease. And this was in the 70s when concert technology was still in many ways in it's infancy. It can be done.

But why not have 3 guitars and 2 keyboards though? It's only a positive thing. Makes the band unique. More input from different individuals to songwriting too.

There are parts on CD where at least 3 guitar tracks are playing different things. I agree that it could be stripped down, but why?

The thing I worry about is having too many people in one band would be like too many cooks making a broth.

Keith Richards once said that the Stones' mid 70s work (from Goat's Head Soup to Black and Blue) suffered because they had all these guys like Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Sugar Blue, etc etc throwing their ideas and spirit into the songs which muddled everything.

Idk. IMO Axl is at his best when he's playing angry, raw, aggressive music. Like Oh My God. Or Shackler's. To me those are the two best "nu Guns" tracks. I miss fun tracks like Bad Apples or Bad Obsession though.

It's also why I prefer the earlier demos of the CD songs to the finished product. The music became OVERLY layered. Overly complex. And this is coming from a guy who loves Physical Graffiti, so I'm not one of those people who say like "every song must be about partying and girls and must be the same 3 chords".

Edited February 5, 2011 by Indigo Child

[Changes]

Yes, but it's really mostly an image problem. I mean one of the new band's main problems is that the public won't let it pass as anything else than "Axl and friends/hired hands". So when you've got 8 people there, also with a really high turnover on members, it just becomes a big blurry mess of revolving anonymous musicians. It would be much more wise to try to stick with two guitarists. That is the only way any one of them is ever gonna make a name for himself and be able to challenge Slash as THE GN'R guitarist (not that that would ever happen, but at least maybe they would have some sort of recognition). And if the original music could be played with two guitars, so should this music. And if not, maybe they've strived a bit too much from what will ever be perceived as Guns N' Roses.

[HB3]

No. Not for the Chinese Democracy songs.

And remember, Brain almost toured with the band.

Which would've meant a vocalist, two lead guitarists, a rhythm guitarist, a bassist, two drummers and two keyboardists.

Why couldn't a six piece band play the CD songs? Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones handled all of Zep's material, even their complex stuff, live with ease. And this was in the 70s when concert technology was still in many ways in it's infancy. It can be done.

But why not have 3 guitars and 2 keyboards though? It's only a positive thing. Makes the band unique. More input from different individuals to songwriting too.

There are parts on CD where at least 3 guitar tracks are playing different things. I agree that it could be stripped down, but why?

The thing I worry about is having too many people in one band would be like too many cooks making a broth.

Keith Richards once said that the Stones' mid 70s work (from Goat's Head Soup to Black and Blue) suffered because they had all these guys like Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Sugar Blue, etc etc throwing their ideas and spirit into the songs which muddled everything.

Idk. IMO Axl is at his best when he's playing angry, raw, aggressive music. Like Oh My God. Or Shackler's. To me those are the two best "nu Guns" tracks. I miss fun tracks like Bad Apples or Bad Obsession though.

It's also why I prefer the earlier demos of the CD songs to the finished product. The music became OVERLY layered. Overly complex. And this is coming from a guy who loves Physical Graffiti, so I'm not one of those people who say like "every song must be about partying and girls and must be the same 3 chords".

There were no "fun" songs on AFD.

You've seen how this band interacts with each other though. There's no doubt there's gonna be some more fun songs on the next few albums. I can't wait to hear what Axl and Ron can write together.

[Vincent Vega]

No. Not for the Chinese Democracy songs.

And remember, Brain almost toured with the band.

Which would've meant a vocalist, two lead guitarists, a rhythm guitarist, a bassist, two drummers and two keyboardists.

Why couldn't a six piece band play the CD songs? Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones handled all of Zep's material, even their complex stuff, live with ease. And this was in the 70s when concert technology was still in many ways in it's infancy. It can be done.

But why not have 3 guitars and 2 keyboards though? It's only a positive thing. Makes the band unique. More input from different individuals to songwriting too.

There are parts on CD where at least 3 guitar tracks are playing different things. I agree that it could be stripped down, but why?

The thing I worry about is having too many people in one band would be like too many cooks making a broth.

Keith Richards once said that the Stones' mid 70s work (from Goat's Head Soup to Black and Blue) suffered because they had all these guys like Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Sugar Blue, etc etc throwing their ideas and spirit into the songs which muddled everything.

Idk. IMO Axl is at his best when he's playing angry, raw, aggressive music. Like Oh My God. Or Shackler's. To me those are the two best "nu Guns" tracks. I miss fun tracks like Bad Apples or Bad Obsession though.

It's also why I prefer the earlier demos of the CD songs to the finished product. The music became OVERLY layered. Overly complex. And this is coming from a guy who loves Physical Graffiti, so I'm not one of those people who say like "every song must be about partying and girls and must be the same 3 chords".

There were no "fun" songs on AFD.

You've seen how this band interacts with each other though. There's no doubt there's gonna be some more fun songs on the next few albums. I can't wait to hear what Axl and Ron can write together.

I just hope he allows Ron and DJ into the process. Like let's them invent the songs and comes he up with vocals. I'd love if songwriting wise it could be more like a conventional band, instead of the very digital way CD was recorded, where bits and pieces of songs were worked on and then stored for months at a time only to be revisited, re-recorded, re-mixed and re-worked with Pro Tools over and over later.

I just want it to be organic. Have Ron, Richard, DJ just mess around, see what they come up with; if it's good have Axl add his vocals, melodies and lyrics. Develop it a little if need be. No more Pro Tools or twenty layers of stuff. I'd love also if the people playing on the songs on the next record are the people who wrote the music.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Indigo Child

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

The solo from 0:00 to 1:21 is Keith, and then from 1:21 to 3:39 the solo is Mick Taylor. Look at how well two very different guitarists blend together.

Why can't three guitarists be considered to blend well together/compliment one another? Certainly I would regard Springsteen and the E Street Band, Iron Maiden and Blue Oyster Cult as having three guitarists which blend/blended together pretty damn well.

[Vincent Vega]

The solo from 0:00 to 1:21 is Keith, and then from 1:21 to 3:39 the solo is Mick Taylor. Look at how well two very different guitarists blend together.

Why can't three guitarists be considered to blend well together/compliment one another? Certainly I would regard Springsteen and the E Street Band, Iron Maiden and Blue Oyster Cult as having three guitarists which blend/blended together pretty damn well.

I dunno...

Maybe it's not the three guitarists thing, but...If you listen to like the 1999 demos of IRS, TWAT, etc, they're great, and then go compare them to the record versions...it just feels like the life has been sucked out of them. The music feels cluttered in that you can't tell who's playing what. There's so many parts and layers that it's not like a straight blend, it's like a slice and dice of different guitarists playing different parts which might've been recorded five years apart. It's muddled and overly layered and it just feels pieced together, not organic in it's sound. I can't quite explain it.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Indigo Child

[Jakey Styley]

If it were up to me, Nightrain would have 1000 guitars.

[MJG]

How can anyone in this day and age think that that Stones video features good guitar playing?! Come on! It sounds shyte! I just don't get why people like this stuff. The Richards part sounds like a beginner child playing at their worst. There is nothing smooth about the tone or phrasing. Terrible vibrato, no technique - nothing. Sounds like a supermarket guitar being played through a battery powered amp. I personally don't enjoy listening to "old" bands in general (I'm talking Beatles, Stones, Early Floyd, Who, even Hendrix, Led Zep, Sabbath and early Aerosmith etc) but I've always understood and respected the influence these guys had on the bands and guitarists that I love and understood that without them I wouldn't have what I do. But I never have and never will understand what Richards is about. I bet if when the Stones came out he was a fat, bald, speccy T-totaler he would have got nowhere.

Anyway on topic - have you seen GNR live recently?! It didn't sound bad so who gives a shit! This thread just sounds like another round-a-bout way of moaning that the lineup isn't Slash and Izzy or Slash and Gilby...

I don't think GNR has ever had an overall bad live sound - just different from era to era/lineup to lineup. As far as guitars go - it's generally all good from whatever period.

Edited February 5, 2011 by MJG

[Vincent Vega]

How can anyone in this day and age think that that Stones video features good guitar playing?! Come on! It sounds shyte! I just don't get why people like this stuff. The Richards part sounds like a beginner child playing at their worst. There is nothing smooth about the tone or phrasing. Terrible vibrato, no technique - nothing. Sounds like a supermarket guitar being played through a battery powered amp. I personally don't enjoy listening to "old" bands in general (I'm talking Beatles, Stones, Early Floyd, Who, even Hendrix, Led Zep, Sabbath and early Aerosmith etc) but I've always understood and respected the influence these guys had on the bands and guitarists that I love and understood that without them I wouldn't have what I do. But I never have and never will understand what Richards is about. I bet if when the Stones came out he was a fat, bald, speccy T-totaler he would have got nowhere.

Anyway on topic - have you seen GNR live recently?! It didn't sound bad so who gives a shit! This thread just sounds like another round-a-bout way of moaning that the lineup isn't Slash and Izzy or Slash and Gilby...

I don't think GNR has ever had an overall bad live sound - just different from era to era/lineup to lineup. As far as guitars go - it's generally all good from whatever period.

What about the Mick Taylor part of the solo?

[Vincent Vega]

I'd be perfectly fine if bi-polar Rose and the paycheck bitches just called it a day. There's nothing left to see here.

A reunion of the classic five ... yeah, that's where the real magic is.

We know your sentiments BBA.

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

I'd be perfectly fine if bi-polar Rose and the paycheck bitches just called it a day. There's nothing left to see here.

A reunion of the classic five ... yeah, that's where the real magic is.

You read this board because you want a reunion I get it but why call Axl 'bi-polar'? Why would you come on here if you insult Axl?

[Vincent Vega]

I'd be perfectly fine if bi-polar Rose and the paycheck bitches just called it a day. There's nothing left to see here.

A reunion of the classic five ... yeah, that's where the real magic is.

You read this board because you want a reunion I get it but why call Axl 'bi-polar'? Why would you come on here if you insult Axl?

He's still angry that Popcorn was kicked out of the band. Don't try to make any more sense out of his madness.

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

I'd be perfectly fine if bi-polar Rose and the paycheck bitches just called it a day. There's nothing left to see here.

A reunion of the classic five ... yeah, that's where the real magic is.

You read this board because you want a reunion I get it but why call Axl 'bi-polar'? Why would you come on here if you insult Axl?

He's still angry that Popcorn was kicked out of the band. Don't try to make any more sense out of his madness.

Popcorn had no one to thank but himself at the time. He was given warning after warning. It's not like it was an unfair dismissal. Slash and Duff had their addictions but could still play.

[Vincent Vega]

I'd be perfectly fine if bi-polar Rose and the paycheck bitches just called it a day. There's nothing left to see here.

A reunion of the classic five ... yeah, that's where the real magic is.

You read this board because you want a reunion I get it but why call Axl 'bi-polar'? Why would you come on here if you insult Axl?

He's still angry that Popcorn was kicked out of the band. Don't try to make any more sense out of his madness.

Popcorn had no one to thank but himself at the time. He was given warning after warning. It's not like it was an unfair dismissal. Slash and Duff had their addictions but could still play.

You're dealing with someone who is on the same level as Mark David Chapman. He's had 50+ accounts, all of which have been banned for the same reason. He's insulted the mods openly. He makes threads about a reunion with every account. I would even go so far as to say that the calendar in his home probably still reads "1990."