ITW 2012 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Do you ever sit up late at night wondering why If The World wasn't Axl's I Can Feel it Coming in the Air Tonight? It should have been that type of hit song. I think it all comes down to the way it was used in Body of Lies. If it had a video tie in like the one below it would have been a megahit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick85 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I truly believe that Axl and the entire album would have been praised for the musical departures and experimenting that took place, just like Phil Collins was praised for his work post-Genesis. But you'll notice that Phil Collins didn't call his band Genesis after he broke away from Peter Gabriel and the rest of the band. I'm not saying Axl was right or wrong either way, but releasing CD under the Guns N' Roses banner has certainly affected both the public's perception and the legacy of the album. Edited May 12, 2011 by sofine11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Hand Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Do you mean experimental for gnr or overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITW 2012 Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I don't think Axl had the option to do it like Phil. Everybody quit on Axl when they were already making an album. Axl needed to keep the name so he could get all that advance money to hire people to record with. You can't make smooth flamenco jazz without guys like Brain, Bucket and Mother Goose. Edited May 12, 2011 by ITW 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewGNRnOldGNR Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I always wonder when listening to "Chinese Democracy" how anyone couldn't succumb to the magic (but I suppose midget porn enthusiasts would experience exactly the same sensation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick85 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Do you mean experimental for gnr or overall?Overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITW 2012 Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I always wonder when listening to "Chinese Democracy" how anyone couldn't succumb to the magic (but I suppose midget porn enthusiasts would experience exactly the same sensation).A lot of the GNR fanbase is composed of people who just wanted a good old "Saturday is alright for getting fucked up and fighting" type album. Edited May 12, 2011 by ITW 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Hand Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I enjoy CD but i wouldnt call it musically groundbreaking or experimental.(Mabey for GNR)The chord progressions are basic rock and many bands have mixed drum machines with real drum to achieve a desired affect way before CD.Not hatin, but what's so experimental about it?I'm geinuinely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick85 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I enjoy CD but i wouldnt call it musically groundbreaking or experimental.(Mabey for GNR)The chord progressions are basic rock and many bands have mixed drum machines with real drum to achieve a desired affect way before CD.Not hatin, but what's so experimental about it?I'm geinuinely curious.Better, TWAT, & Prostitute are a few that come to mind that are pretty out there. I remember when Better first leaked thinking that I'd never heard anything remotely like it, in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I enjoy CD but i wouldnt call it musically groundbreaking or experimental.(Mabey for GNR)The chord progressions are basic rock and many bands have mixed drum machines with real drum to achieve a desired affect way before CD.Not hatin, but what's so experimental about it?I'm geinuinely curious.Better, TWAT, & Prostitute are a few that come to mind that are pretty out there. I remember when Better first leaked thinking that I'd never heard anything remotely like it, in a good way.I think Chinese Democracy definitely isn't unique in terms of having sounds and styles that have never been heard in any way, shape or form. But, it is completely unique in terms of the breadth and combination of styles and different influences on the record. There is nothing out there quite like many of the tracks on CD, like "If The World", "Better", "Shackler's Revenge", "Sorry", TWAT, "Prostitute" and so on, and so forth. Yes, they have influences you can notice and point out, but the combination of influences and sounds is pretty unique to me.It's a great record, and if people can't get past the fact that it came out under the GN'R name, and/or that the old guys aren't on it, or that it just sounds different from old school GN'R - it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I truly believe that Axl and the entire album would have been praised for the musical departures and experimenting that took place, just like Phil Collins was praised for his work post-Genesis. But you'll notice that Phil Collins didn't call his band Genesis after he broke away from Peter Gabriel and the rest of the band. I'm not saying Axl was right or wrong either way, but releasing CD under the Guns N' Roses banner has certainly affected both the public's perception and the legacy of the album.Nope. It has and always will be about the music, and it just isn't there. If CD was good, their would virtually no one talking about a reunion or Axl keeping the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Hand Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I see what your getting at. Thanks!On topic, if th world was initially one of my favorites.I like blasting it when the verse comes around N the band drops out n you have axl, pounding drums, funky bass, n axl is singing the blues baaaaaaby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick85 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) It's a great record, and if people can't get past the fact that it came out under the GN'R name, and/or that the old guys aren't on it, or that it just sounds different from old school GN'R - it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.AliOh, absolutely. I think it's definitely in the top 10 rock albums of the last decade, if not the best. It's just that the weight of the name held it down. When most fans spent 20 years (1988-2008) thinking that GNR was supposed to sound like Appetite & UYI and then out of nowhere comes a melting pot of crazy grooves that deviate from their roots so much, you're bound to get, at best, a mixed reaction from fans & critics alike. I remember when it first dropped having my friends be really into the tracks and when they'd ask who it was, when I'd say GNR their response would be "Oh. It doesn't sound like them." You know, kind of dismissive. I think a lot of people responded that way to CD, and it's a damn shame because it's a terrific album.Nope. It has and always will be about the music, and it just isn't there. If CD was good, their would virtually no one talking about a reunion or Axl keeping the name.Oh stop. If you're telling me that Slash not being on CD didn't affect anyone's outlook on it you're high.I'm quite sure that the bulk of critics & fans who slammed CD had their minds made up about it before they heard one note of music. I love Slash and the old lineup too, but you can't deny that there are some great and inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy. Edited May 13, 2011 by sofine11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 ^^No offense, but you two aren't giving people any credit. Not everyone who dislikes the album was looking for another Appetite...heck I would say most weren't expecting that; But what we/they were expecting was a solid album with good songs. CD doesn't deliver that.I know I sound like a cupcake, and thats cool; but truth is I don't really care that much about name, reunion etc. Just wanted a good album and I just don't think it is. CD is truly unlistenable to me and I think I've been plenty fair in trying to "get it."Hell I would love to "get it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) It's a great record, and if people can't get past the fact that it came out under the GN'R name, and/or that the old guys aren't on it, or that it just sounds different from old school GN'R - it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.AliOh, absolutely. I think it's definitely in the top 10 rock albums of the last decade, if not the best. It's just that the weight of the name held it down. When most fans spent 20 years (1988-2008) thinking that GNR was supposed to sound like Appetite & UYI and then out of nowhere comes a melting pot of crazy grooves that deviate from their roots so much, you're bound to get, at best, a mixed reaction from fans & critics alike. I remember when it first dropped having my friends be really into the tracks and when they'd ask who it was, when I'd say GNR their response would be "Oh. It doesn't sound like them." You know, kind of dismissive. I think a lot of people responded that way to CD, and it's a damn shame because it's a terrific album.Nope. It has and always will be about the music, and it just isn't there. If CD was good, their would virtually no one talking about a reunion or Axl keeping the name.Oh stop. If you're telling me that Slash not being on CD didn't affect anyone's outlook on it you're high.Maybe a few...but I tend to give people the benefit of doubt, and I do think a great rock record would have won over anyone who cared about slash not being on the record.I'm quite sure that the bulk of critics & fans who slammed CD had their minds made up about it before they heard one note of music. I disagree with you there.. mostly with you using the word "bulk"....you have no way of knowing that; but like I said if the album was great, I think it would have won over those who maybe had some preconceived notions.good music wins out every time. you can't deny that there are some great and inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy.Yes I can. IMO, there are no great or inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy. Edited May 13, 2011 by SunnyDRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick85 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I know I sound like a cupcake, and thats cool; but truth is I don't really care that much about name, reunion etc. Just wanted a good album and I just don't think it is. CD is truly unlistenable to me and I think I've been plenty fair in trying to "get it."Hell I would love to "get it."Right, and you're entitled to your opinion just like anyone else. And there are a few tracks on CD that I often hit skip on (like The Blues, Madagascar, Scraped) that I think are just "Meh." But tracks like Better & TWAT....I just don't get how anyone, without an agenda, can listen to them and think "Well that song was just bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It's a great record, and if people can't get past the fact that it came out under the GN'R name, and/or that the old guys aren't on it, or that it just sounds different from old school GN'R - it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.AliOh, absolutely. I think it's definitely in the top 10 rock albums of the last decade, if not the best. It's just that the weight of the name held it down. When most fans spent 20 years (1988-2008) thinking that GNR was supposed to sound like Appetite & UYI and then out of nowhere comes a melting pot of crazy grooves that deviate from their roots so much, you're bound to get, at best, a mixed reaction from fans & critics alike. I remember when it first dropped having my friends be really into the tracks and when they'd ask who it was, when I'd say GNR their response would be "Oh. It doesn't sound like them." You know, kind of dismissive. I think a lot of people responded that way to CD, and it's a damn shame because it's a terrific album.Nope. It has and always will be about the music, and it just isn't there. If CD was good, their would virtually no one talking about a reunion or Axl keeping the name.Oh stop. If you're telling me that Slash not being on CD didn't affect anyone's outlook on it you're high.Maybe a few...but I tend to give people the benefit of doubt, and I do think a great rock record would have won over anyone who cared about slash not being on the record.I'm quite sure that the bulk of critics & fans who slammed CD had their minds made up about it before they heard one note of music. I disagree with you there.. mostly with you using the word "bulk"....you have no way of knowing that; but like I said if the album was great, I think it would have won over those who maybe had some preconceived notions.good music wins out every time. you can't deny that there are some great and inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy.Yes I can. IMO, there are no great or inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy.I'm sorry, but the notion that prejudices towards the music could have been overcome if the quality was there is complete and utter shit. Look at U2 with No Line on the Horizon, Pop and Zooropa, Megadeth with Risk, Metallica with Load/Reload, Chris Cornell with Scream - there are countless examples of bands/artists making sonic departures and fans reacting strongly - negatively - as a result. In every one of those cases, if you go to the iTunes or Amazon customer reviews for those albums, you will see people giving a poor rating to the album and commenting on its departure from the band/artist's "traditional" or "expected" sound. Is that all the fans? No, but certainly a fair number.And, then, with CD, you have the additional aspect of the lineup change, which inspired further prejudice, as this board has displayed day after day, year after year.You say you're giving people the benefit of the doubt. It's either that or you are so intent on continuing your bashing of the album and new band that you'll avoid the obvious truth that for a fair share of the public, their prejudices determined their opinions of the album. It's obvious in reading reviews that cite Slash not being on the album or it not sounding like old school GN'R.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scans n' copies Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 If the World is one of those "meh" tracks for me. To each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITW 2012 Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Listen to the solo in Shackers. Seriously, what the fuck is that shit? It's an Elephant noise. Didn't we all agree upon that like years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR123GNR456 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It's a great record, and if people can't get past the fact that it came out under the GN'R name, and/or that the old guys aren't on it, or that it just sounds different from old school GN'R - it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.AliOh, absolutely. I think it's definitely in the top 10 rock albums of the last decade, if not the best. It's just that the weight of the name held it down. When most fans spent 20 years (1988-2008) thinking that GNR was supposed to sound like Appetite & UYI and then out of nowhere comes a melting pot of crazy grooves that deviate from their roots so much, you're bound to get, at best, a mixed reaction from fans & critics alike. I remember when it first dropped having my friends be really into the tracks and when they'd ask who it was, when I'd say GNR their response would be "Oh. It doesn't sound like them." You know, kind of dismissive. I think a lot of people responded that way to CD, and it's a damn shame because it's a terrific album.Nope. It has and always will be about the music, and it just isn't there. If CD was good, their would virtually no one talking about a reunion or Axl keeping the name.Oh stop. If you're telling me that Slash not being on CD didn't affect anyone's outlook on it you're high.Maybe a few...but I tend to give people the benefit of doubt, and I do think a great rock record would have won over anyone who cared about slash not being on the record.I'm quite sure that the bulk of critics & fans who slammed CD had their minds made up about it before they heard one note of music. I disagree with you there.. mostly with you using the word "bulk"....you have no way of knowing that; but like I said if the album was great, I think it would have won over those who maybe had some preconceived notions.good music wins out every time. you can't deny that there are some great and inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy.Yes I can. IMO, there are no great or inspired tracks on Chinese Democracy.Sunny, stop kidding yourself.It's my honest opinion that many critic's had their mind's made up for their review's. Most of the positive's review's, mention the music. The negative's review's are how long it took to come out, how it's "Not Guns 'N Roses", Axl bashing, nitpicking through each song.To say if the music was good, it would've won many people over. Well, that's false. The negative media just wanted anything to bash Axl on. The music is phenomenal. Seriously, I have read review's where the critic mention's how it took so long for it to come out and bashes Axl. Many people took the review's for their own personal benefit's and used to it just wreck GN'R and Axl, and CD apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuddMckagan Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 *bursts into singing In The Air Tonight* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetness Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 "Chinese Democracy is one of the best albums of the past 10 years""no its not, Chinese Democracy isn't even that good of an album""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonsaul Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 "Chinese Democracy is one of the best albums of the past 10 years""no its not, Chinese Democracy isn't even that good of an album""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not""yes it is""no its not"yes it is" "no its not"heh lol.....more or less tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think support from the label was missing, as in a video for ITW. It's like the band got caught between two stools label and BB. And then you hear that Azoff didn't even have their back. basically they got fucked by their own manager? the ITW movie tie was more of another teaser then an all out attack.CD is experimental for me because I havent really heard classic rock mixed with 90s Alt influences in such a full on way. Well, not full on Queen, Zepp, Stones, GNR style stuff. How it sounds both is still a mystery to me. That's prob why some don't like, it's not straight ahead classic rock, it's not straight alt metal.Hopefully they will release a video just before Rock in Rio, whether that's off a new song off CD II or CD don't know.Maybe Shackler's Rock Band tie in was the video equivalent in this era. Videos are a lot of work really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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