Do we have the right to criticize Axl and New GnR?

[Guest siliconmessiah]

I will start off by saying that I probably will be multi flamed for this input on this board. But I´m kind of used to it.

"Why are you hanging on these boards if you don´t like the band?"

"You are not interested in the band, go away!"

And the people that says this to me, is mostly people who joined this forum in 09-10 and 11. New fellow fans are cool and all, but these people are here just to accuse me of not being a fan. Ridiculous.

But I have also noticed by language and stuff that there are some multi-posters among them, so I don´t take too much of notice.

I am actually, a b-i-g, big fan of Guns N´ Roses, and was glad that Axl Rose, still my favourite singer, took hold of the name Guns N´ Roses, "just to keep it alive and release new music", as he put it in an interview on the homepage. But the number one thing that disappointed me, and probably Robin Finck, Buckethead and Brian Mantia too, is that these words was mostly bullshit.

I have been hanging around these boards for around 10 years now, or a little more. I guess you could count me as a GNR-fan since 1999.

I have "endured" all the ups & downs during these years, and was by starters very supportive of Axl Roses "New Guns" that started off in 2001. A fantastic move, as I had just started to get into the guns at that part of my life.

But my point here is, that even if Axl Rose is your favourite artist, like mine, he should also be able to be critiziced. But as soon as those discussions take place, some people tells me, or other people to fuck off and that Axl Rose is a godlike that cannot be criticized.

I say fuck that. A band like Guns N´ Roses staying silent for 6 months is just bullshit. What the fuck seems to be the problem?

I think that we fans should be able to discuss this out of interest and keep it on a level for grown ups.

This is what I don´t like about Guns N´ Roses:

1. Axl Rose saying that he took hold of the GNR-name & legacy to keep on making music, when in fact he has been on an AFD/CD-parade for over 10 years.

2. The way that the fans are being kept in the dark, and that the lousy homepage was updated lastly in 2008. Not even a note of ending the world tour, and no mention of Rock In Rio?!?!

3. The way that people in the band gets replaced, so that even the fans isn´t able to keep up with stuff.

4. The way nothing gets released.

5. Tommy Stinson making a record with Soul Asylum. Richard Fortus touring with Thin Lizzy. DJ Ashba recording with Sixx AM.

6. The way that the players of the "band" is like employees and cannot seem to get into detail with the music and future plans.

I come here a couple of times a week just to check out if there has been any news, but the only news about GNR there is, is about the members doing solo stuff. And that sucks.

Now, sorry for ranting. Now onto your opinion.

Do you think that GNR could do more to promote themselves as a real band? How?

Do you think that GNR is being run in a perfectly good way, or are there flaws in it? What are the flaws, and what could Axl do to minimize them?

Edited June 5, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[Lethalis]

Somebody is wasting his time haha. Good luck

People are stupid. Get used to it.

[Screamin' Demon]

In theory anyone can be criticised. The problem is that the board is hoarded largely by Axl fan boys who are obsessed with him in such a way that they will go through any lenghts to defend their mentor. I think though that that obsession goes so far that people discuss the most far removed things that have nothing to even do with rock music, like asking questions who Axl may vote for, what food he may like etc. My only advice to people that demand that Axl release another album because they want hard rock music, is that they should take the matter into their own hands and take singing lessons, get their own image and style, form a rock band if they have a good idea of what they and others want to hear from a rock band. It's what I am going to do as soon as my holiday is out of the way. Anyone who truly understands and loves rock music is capable of making it if they can pick up an instrument or singing lessons as long as they have musical ideas. I disagree with some of your statements eg. being glad that Axl took the name etc. but I respect your opinion. The "band" doesn't really function as a proper band. What it boils down to is that Axl's status above the rest of them is far superior, but Ashba may be a challenge to that. The flaw is that Axl seems to prefer to work with guys who will do as he says, rather than as they wish.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Screamin Demon

[Lethalis]

My only advice to people that demand that Axl release another album because they want hard rock music, is that they should take the matter into their own hands and take singing lessons, get their own image and style, form a rock band if they have a good idea of what they and others want to hear from a rock band. It's what I am going to do as soon as my holiday is out of the way. Anyone who truly understands and loves rock music is capable of making it if they can pick up an instrument or singing lessons as long as they have musical ideas.

I disagree.. especially on the singing part haha.

I do record guitar stuff which sounds allright (basic power chord rythms and progressions) and sometimes sing over it.. but my voice just sucks. I like the stuff I write though.. so that part isn't too bad and I have a lot of ideas, especially when I'm feeling down a bit. There is a lot missing in current rock music which I think could be a lot better.. more dynamic, more emotion, greater intensity etc. It all just sounds the same really when you think of it. I'd like to see that change. Music should take people on a journey and sometimes puke in their face when they don't expect it

[GNR123GNR456]

I think Guns 'N Roses could promote thmeselves as a band, wait they are a band, their Guns 'N Roses. Just people there's no band picture doesn't mean shit.

No, GNR' is not run in a perfectly good was, just like every other band is not run in a perfect way. Every band has it flaw's whether they be minimal or obvious, every band has one. The only flaw's I see is not putting out more music, that's really it. People say they should've promoted Chinese Democracy, well Axl didn't for some foregone conclusion so we should'nt have to talk about that anymore. Just play Rio with a few new song's and release a new album. There, done. They can promote, or not. Either way the fan's who want it will hear it and the fan's that don't can fuck off! I can care less if GN'R isn't popular on the mainstream radio, the U.S., or the music business, just release some music and people will listen to it.

You state that DJ recording, or recorded with Sixx: AM. Well, the recording's are done and the record is out, and seeing as Nikki Sixx is playing with Motley Crue on thier tour, Sixx: AM won't be playing any gig's. And, weren't you around when DJ said he's working with Axl ever day with new song's and he hinted a "Christmas album," which could mean an album later this year. DJ's top priority is GN'R right now. So what if Fortus is playing with Thin Lizzy, does it ruin the plan's for Rio and the supposed warm up show's in September, no. That's all that matter's.

I don't think it's the fan's be kept in the dark, I think it's Axl's own desire to not say shit that wno't happen again. Remember "March 2006," or Soon is the word." They turned into nothing and the backlash was all put on Axl. Maybe instead of saying stuff is being done, Axl is just staying quiet this time, not trying to stir up shit, but layl ow and work on stuff that's more personal, like his lawsuit's. Besides, he said on his twitter a few week's ago, "there's alot of untweetable stuff going on." When Axl's, ready, well see what he can bring. Sure, I wish he was more in the media too and making music video's, promoting stuff, being a guest on talk show's, magazine interview's, but he's not and that's nohing we can change or can do about it, it's the way he is.

GN'R just finished a full scale tour that went on for a year. Give them a break, atleast we know there's something happening this year, DJ's hinting at stuff, and we won't have to wait another three year's to see them again.

[MB.]

Your points are valid.

But I don't consider this as a real band, more like Axl's support band. With all respect to the guys, cause I have.

If they bring out an album written together maybe that changes. Because it is not a 'real' band, and totally depended on Axl's will, the members can do whatever they want. Cause Axl is complicated, could take another 5 year or so, before anything happens. Those guys need other stuff to do.

For me nugnr is Axl Rose. I am a fan of him and I do know how it works being that. He is no public figure, he doesn't feel any need to update us ( probably because he doesn't know himself), he is so unpredictable. He has alwayse been.

You can critize, get angry, be dissapointed all you want, but situation will not change. So in the end it is all up to you, do you stay a fan or not? If you remain one, don't expect to much, enjoy the music. Cause Axl will never be a public figure again. It seems he hated that to much and he will never update us. Or even worse give updates and not follow through.

I will always be fan, I love GNR to much and I did like nuGNR. Some of the songs Axl has written are to brilliant to not be. And so, I don't expect anything and listen to his (gnr) music and loving that, hoping ofcourse some day there will be more.

Edited June 5, 2011 by MBRose

[saber_]

[blah blah blah, fail blah bluh blah blah more fail]

And the people that says this to me, is mostly people who joined this forum in 09-10 and 11. New fellow fans are cool and all, but these people are here just to accuse me of not being a fan. Ridiculous.

But I have also noticed by language and stuff that there are some multi-posters among them, so I don´t take too much of notice.

[blah blah all i do is imitate the other haters around here, except notice how i just completely lied and portrayed the pro-GnR posters as the ones with all the multiple accounts, even though everyone can obviously see the haters have the most alt accounts BY FAR]

This is what I don´t like about Guns N´ Roses:

[blah blah blah fail blah blah]

Then go away. All you do is bitch and moan. You're not going to accomplish anything with your little message board faux-righteousness. You have failed, and you continue to fail.

Oh and nice phrasing "new fellow fans." What a choice fucking quote that was. As if a fucking message board join date means jack shit as far as establishing supreme credibility regarding who the 'real fans are.' I bought Lies and UYI on release day motherfucker, so you can keep your mygnr join date and flush it down the toilet, poser. Ahh, but it is quite demonstrative of how you view things: through this message baord, and therein is your problem- you're too wrapped up in this board, and since you can't figure out why people don't all agree with you on here (which drives you insane with rage), you cupcake relentlessly, because this message board defines who you are, which is... a fucking complaining, whining, snarky, bitter malcontent whose whole existence on this forum is predicated upon pissing in everyone else's cheerios. Probably because of something you're not happy about in your own life. So you project it on to GnR. Nice jerb there homestar.

[The Glow Inc.]

I'm a bit torn on this subject...

I always use the "Fallout analogy" because it's VERY similar.

See, the Fallout licence was going nowhere because Interplay took the wrong decisions and let it die. Bethesda bought it and 8 years after Fallout 2 ( when Slash left ) comes Fallout 3 ( NuGnR and CD ).

Most Fallout 1 & 2 fans despise Fallout 3 and spend their time bitching about it on a website called No Mutants Allowed, and most of the time, they come with valid points. As for me, I despise Fallout 3 and its fans to bits though

I don't spend much time on NMA anymore because it's simply not worth my time to do that, come there and bitch and bitch and bitch again, every day about the same old topics. When there is an interesting

discussion, I join the fun, but I don't really talk about Fallout 3 anymore.

So as regards NuGnR, I can see why a lot of people seem to hate them ( despite the fact that at the show I was, everybody in the first row was clearly having a blast and didn't care about who was or wasn't in the band at all ).

They are valid reasons. And I can't help feeling frustrated myself because the musicians ( Robin, Buckethead, Bumblefoot, Brain, Fortus, Frank ) are some of my favourite musicians of all time for some damn reason. I can't stand to hear

that nothing is planned, that nothing is going to happen for a long while and that during that time, Richard is going to do session work, that Pisser is going to have a mini tour, that DJ is gonna have the time to write, release, and maybe

even tour an album from scratch...I don't BLAME them at all, fuck, I even encourage them to do so. It just kills me that Axl doesn't seem to want them to do just that with his band.

It's a waste of time, first, but also an ENORMOUS waste of talent and potential.

I reckon there is immense talent, that's why I only post negative shit ( mainly about the band being inactive ) when I'm really frustrated. I don't go on for pages saying how Axl is fat or how DJ looks...because that's retarded. And I'm not a retard, yet.

[Use Your Delusion 1]

attempting to defend Axl is stupid and futile, the points you raise are very valid ones and ones which most of the world agrees to, unfortunatly this agreement doesn't extend to the deluded few who inhibit this boards.

[Orsys]

This is what I don´t like about Guns N´ Roses:

1. Axl Rose saying that he took hold of the GNR-name & legacy to keep on making music, when in fact he has been on an AFD/CD-parade for over 10 years.

2. The way that the fans are being kept in the dark, and that the lousy homepage was updated lastly in 2008. Not even a note of ending the world tour, and no mention of Rock In Rio?!?!

3. The way that people in the band gets replaced, so that even the fans isn´t able to keep up with stuff.

4. The way nothing gets released.

5. Tommy Stinson making a record with Soul Asylum. Richard Fortus touring with Thin Lizzy. DJ Ashba recording with Sixx AM.

6. The way that the players of the "band" is like employees and cannot seem to get into detail with the music and future plans.

I think these are fair observations and cover how you feel they are not performing to your expectations. I guess what I dont' understand is expecting something different from THIS band. Throughout the whole history of the band, they have done things their way, in their own time. To expect this band to run in some standardized way (regular releases, regular appearances, steady PR) and then be disappointed that it doesn't happen is more the fan doing that to himself.

I think it's great when the band is out. Last year was a lot of fun. But if I don't hear from them I just pay attention to what other bands that interest me are doing.

The nomadic behaviour of DJ, Richard, Tommy, BBF is not that different from many artists today that do temp jobs.

I don't know if GnR is being run well since I don't know anything about the behind the scenes stuff. But I do know that it is still a band that I enjoy and I pay attention whenever there is something to pay attention to. If their absences may result in losing fans and it doesn't bother the band, then why would I lose any sleep over it.

As a fan you draw the line in what you can and cannot tolerate in the bands you follow. That's all that each fan can do and so your observations are very valid for what you expect. But this band is going to do what they do, what they have always done.

[gunsguy]

Critisize sure about the band or the music is one thing but when you change the players names to suit your childish behaviour in multiple threads it is not welcome IMO

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

I didn't have the motivation to read the opening post in all honesty; but in terms of the question... you can absolutely criticise Guns N' Roses so long as its cohesive and respectful. I will say though when it's continual and with no element of productivity I question the validity of you or others having a membership of this forum (considering it's allegedly designed to be a platform for interesting and constructive debate in relation to a band we all supposedly share a "love" for). I would point out as well actually I find the brainless "Guns N' Roses can do no wrong" types as annoying those who vehemently oppose any action the "new" guys undertake.

Edited June 5, 2011 by NewGNRnOldGNR

[dalsh327]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a fan and being critical of the decisions they make as artists.

1. Axl Rose saying that he took hold of the GNR-name & legacy to keep on making music, when in fact he has been on an AFD/CD-parade for over 10 years.

- There's a divided opinion on Axl using the GNR name. There always will be. He feels the music is GNR music and not solo music, and would've been the same songs regardless of whether or not Slash, Duff, and Izzy were a part of it.

2. The way that the fans are being kept in the dark, and that the lousy homepage was updated lastly in 2008. Not even a note of ending the world tour, and no mention of Rock In Rio?!?!

-- Not all bands focus on social network sites and webpages. GNR just focused on delivering a show for the past 2 years. I think the world tour has been left open ended while they figure out how to deal with Azoff, and whether or not doing a US tour or work on new music, which would also mean less AFD era songs next go round.

3. The way that people in the band gets replaced, so that even the fans isn´t able to keep up with stuff.

Cure and Steely Dan fans joke about how many musicians have gone through those bands.

4. The way nothing gets released.

- Chinese Democracy easily could've gone down as one of the "great unreleased albums". There's a lot of bands that scrap and shelve entire albums.

5. Tommy Stinson making a record with Soul Asylum. Richard Fortus touring with Thin Lizzy. DJ Ashba recording with Sixx AM.

- Nothing stopped them from working with those bands. Even though Sixx AM went on the road before, it was just a studio project to go along with his photography book. It's a side project for Ashba and Sixx but still a real band.

6. The way that the players of the "band" is like employees and cannot seem to get into detail with the music and future plans.

- They signed a contract, but it's common sense they're going to try to avoid saying something that would upset Axl. I think after a few years, they know what to say and what not to say. Discussing his lateness is prob. not going to get them fired, it's in the news. He keeps a bit of a distance from his bandmates (Aerosmith, Stones, Motley, and Poison aren't the best of friends offstage) but I just think it's some process he has going on, like a method actor. Maybe he won't go on stage until he's sure he can hit the notes. Going in front of a large crowd is scary, because you have no idea what kind of audience you're going to have. I also know that some tour managers overbook bands and can be very hard on themselves when they play less than 100 percent. I doubt Axl enjoys cancelling shows or walking out because he was pissed off. He goes to shows; he knows it's a huge letdown. But worse yet is when you have an artist playing the minimum amount of songs just so they get their money. Internet spreads the word fast when artists "half-ass" it.

I just think the door's open to most of the members of GNR, because they're all highly experienced musicians that came from other projects, and if they can't come back when he's ready to record and tour, he'll prob. ask them if they know anyone, or have someone come in and play for a few days or a few weeks.

I also think Axl and Beta cleaned house and now keep the business side of GNR simple and more direct. I think they're done with paying big name managers money. Prince just has his assistant call out and look for venues to play, and I noticed that he was playing older places that don't always have bands, and prob. got it for a really good deal. The tour manager and local promoters usually try to get the bands into the newer places, the ones with mile high nosebleeds because the box seats are three levels.

Plus entertainment lawyers monitor what's being said. They're always looking for something to do and how to make themselves money.

[The Wicked Hand]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course Axl could release more material and everyone wishes he would. I believe its your repitition of the same "throw the GNR towel in" that people take issue with.

Whats interesting to me is some people only post to complain about the complainers.

I think its great that people have different opinions. This woukd be a boring forum otherwise.

Anyways, im pullin for Axl to deliver this time. I think ashba, while not my favorite, is great for producing music, which is a plus. They just had a great tour, are writing, and a christmas albulm has been mentioned. While their track record, understandably, may lead to pesimism, i choose to hope for the best. Might bite me in the ass, but, it wont matter in the gran sceme of things. Ive come to realize the power of positive thinking and negativity breeds negativity, but i certainly wont bash someone and say their not a fan bc of their opinion.

[sweetness]

on this forum we do

[iftheworld]

We don't have the right to criticize anything or anyone that comes in, or out of GNR. The only thing we have a right to, is buying the albums. We don't have ties to GNR management, family, or their friends. We are simply fans.

[justmike66]

And for the record nobody gives a fuck what you "don't like" about GNR

dont speak for me lolcano ... i agree with alot of the o.p , but i think osrys summed it up perfectly .

[mrandyk]

Its just like crticizing the management of your favorite sports team.

[star]

we have every right

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

I'm a bit torn on this subject...

I always use the "Fallout analogy" because it's VERY similar.

See, the Fallout licence was going nowhere because Interplay took the wrong decisions and let it die. Bethesda bought it and 8 years after Fallout 2 ( when Slash left ) comes Fallout 3 ( NuGnR and CD ).

Most Fallout 1 & 2 fans despise Fallout 3 and spend their time bitching about it on a website called No Mutants Allowed, and most of the time, they come with valid points. As for me, I despise Fallout 3 and its fans to bits though

I don't spend much time on NMA anymore because it's simply not worth my time to do that, come there and bitch and bitch and bitch again, every day about the same old topics. When there is an interesting

discussion, I join the fun, but I don't really talk about Fallout 3 anymore.

I had Fallout 1 and 2 and BOS and I thought 3 and NV were great. I liked the analogy though. Like people who hate 3d Mario games because they're not the same stuff again and again, things need to evolve. Some people will like it some don't.

I'm not a fan of the current Guns N' Roses lineup if I'm honest.

[WhazUp]

We have every right to point out what we think could be better. In fact it should be encouraged, its much better to say what we think than lie and pretend everything is going the way we want it to

[FuddMckagan]

We have every right to criticize and say what we do and don't like. That's what a fan forum is all about.

[Hatchepsut]

Not participate in a forum does not mean that a fan unknown the band's work, or is not a fan.

I found this forum in Dec 2008, but I know Guns a long time, before you, but

a fan who met the Guns one year ago, is not less fan of that old fan, (but an old fan is patient

more time ... kidding)

It's cool to just those who agree with you all the time?

I've agreed with you on another topic on another matter, but

about this, I will always disagree, because the Guns work that way, love it or leave it. Repeat your grievances does not solve.

Don´t have examples in your own life yet?

"Don´t criticize the man, because you don´t walk in your shoes!"

or

"POLARIZE ME

SENSITIZE ME

CRITICIZE ME

CIVILIZE ME

COMPENSATE ME

ANIMATE ME

COMPLICATE ME

ELEVATE ME!"

Edited June 6, 2011 by Hatchepsut

[iftheworld]

We have every right to criticize and say what we do and don't like. That's what a fan forum is all about.

There's only a handful of GNR fans on here. The rest are reunionist GNR phonies. So I'd be careful about throwing the words fan forum out around here.

Edited June 5, 2011 by iftheworld

[FuddMckagan]

We have every right to criticize and say what we do and don't like. That's what a fan forum is all about.

There's only a handful of GNR fans on here. The rest are reunionist GNR phonies. So I'd be careful about throwing the words fan forum out around here.

There's different types of GnR fans. "Reunionists" are one of those types.