Do you think Nu Guns will eventually become a band that can stand on their own?

[WhazUp]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

[volcano62]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

Edited September 19, 2011 by volcano62

[sailaway]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

Exactly my thoughts,and according to Smeagol rule # 32 ", only original members are not hired hands" So we have Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner as original members,now let's see how this rule works

Oh crap Adler is going to lose it when he finds out he was just a hired hand!!!!!

Go tell him,he is camped outside the RRHOF. In fact this is such an important discovery I think the cupcake patrol should contact each non original member of every group in history and let them know they are hired hands now.

[moreblack]

I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

although none particularly memorable or all that outstanding.

[volcano62]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

Exactly my thoughts,and according to Smeagol rule # 32 ", only original members are not hired hands" So we have Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner as original members,now let's see how this rule works

Oh crap Adler is going to lose it when he finds out he was just a hired hand!!!!!

Go tell him,he is camped outside the RRHOF. In fact this is such an important discovery I think the cupcake patrol should contact each non original member of every group in history and let them know they are hired hands now.

:rofl-lol: oh man you're killing me at work here loll

[Del Norte]

A Gnu is a large animal in Africa,don't know what a "nu" is.

Meet BoBo

Shit I feel bad...didn't mean to insult the gnu

I always pictured him looking more like Smeagol from Lord of the Rings.

I honestly think that some use the term "hired hands",and "nu" to provoke a reaction.I'm up to date with who is in the band so I don't really need the "nu" thrown in to differentiate.

Firstly, they are hired hands, that's not an insult it's just to differentiate from full fledged band member which none of them are since they have no power or final say. If you don't like that it's too bad it's only an insult because it's pathetic, not because it's not true.

Stay on topic yourself Sailaway, you think you have the moral highground and are correct then you say shit like:

"You're all a bunch of fuckin' trolling diseased maggots with venereal disease that ruin this place"

From a few posts up. That deserves a ban imo. For both of you. You say save personal attacks for pms which obviously I disagree with as personal attacks are never warranted, my post mocks not insults. Saying the above quote insults, calling someone smegal from LOTR is an insult. You're disgustingly insulting other boarders because you disagree, then I mock you and you say "stay on topic" lol.

Also, if you're defending styx that's pretty much ban worthy just for having such terrible taste.

alright, GO!

And you don't think what you have done in two posts is a personal attack? Pot,kettle,black.

No,I don't see the "hired hands" comment as anything but provocation and a jab at GNR.We all know who owns the name,and its time to move past the petty insults. Dizzy,Ron,Chris,Richard and frank are very skilled musicians who are currently in Guns N' Roses.

That is fact,and referring to them as hired hands isn't necessary.Many bands have lineup changes,so you come to terms with it or move on.It's really pretty simple.

And as I said before my s/n refers to the Queen song,but I like Styx so I guess I'm the antichrist.

It's interesting how you guys twist things. What I said about you, go back and read, was that you have no right calling people cupcakes and I laugh when you do. I also poked jokingly at your username. You and Volcano teamed up and said:

"You're all a bunch of fuckin' trolling diseased maggots with venereal disease that ruin this place"

Then you went on to call Bobbo Smegal. This stuff is funny to me just how rediculous you can be. Somehow what I said equals what you said? You guys always bring out this "pot meet kettle" crap when everyone can see there's a stark difference between "you shouldn't call people cupcakes" and "you're a diseased maggot with a venereal disease".

Volcano, if you're comparing Kirk's role in Metallica to Bumble's or Ashba's in GNR, then I really don't even want to bother.

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

How did I twist things? The only reason you're saying that is because I said it and I'm sure any sane person can see the difference between yours and Volcanos venomous insult at half the guys on the forum, and my "attack" that was jokingly comparing your name to a song I don't like. Obviously, saying you should be banned for liking a song was a joke... I mean, the only reason you're taking it seriously is because you're trying to make it seem like I'm somehow twisting things when I quoted the entirety of what I said that was an "attack" and entirety of what you said. Some Grade A twisting, right? Pff.

No I didn't. That's very, very stupid logic. Set a precedent? I didn't even mention anything about "original" players. Kirk's role in Metallica is different from Ashba's not because he wasn't the first guitar player in the band, this is easy stuff guys. Not going into the argument that Volcano is trying to start about this guy Axl jammed with for a couple months and played AT LEAST 2 tiny club shows with, otherwise known as Traci.

[vince41090]

This is Dust N' Bones... Use the search option to try to find old threads before starting a new one.

[Apollo]

Hired hand is a derogatory term. Bottom line. Specifically, anybody with a job is a hired hand. But out of respect, we are called by our work titles.

I am a hired hand for my company. But I am called a Systems Coordinator. The people in GnR should be called band members or guitar player or bass player or drummer.

Calling them hired hands is ONLY used as an insult. It is childish and petty.

Slash and Axl and Izzy and Duff created some amazing songs together. Who knows what would have turned out with other band members.

I just love the music. I would love to hear the old unreleased

cd songs. I can't wait to hear the new guys music. And I wish the old band would have released more albums.

[moreblack]

And I wish the old band would have released more albums.

there's something everybody can agree on

[WhazUp]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

[SunnyDRE]

Traci's involvement in GNR was minimal at best and should be treated as such.

[Del Norte]

Hired hand is a derogatory term. Bottom line. Specifically, anybody with a job is a hired hand. But out of respect, we are called by our work titles.

I am a hired hand for my company. But I am called a Systems Coordinator. The people in GnR should be called band members or guitar player or bass player or drummer.

Calling them hired hands is ONLY used as an insult. It is childish and petty.

Slash and Axl and Izzy and Duff created some amazing songs together. Who knows what would have turned out with other band members.

I just love the music. I would love to hear the old unreleased

cd songs. I can't wait to hear the new guys music. And I wish the old band would have released more albums.

This is true and I went off on a tangent with the hired hand thing, that's why I stopped myself from letting them cupcake me with the Traci bit lol.

On another note, I don't see the problem with the term Nuguns. It separates the bands into the different bands they are. If I was to talk about old guns here I wouldn't just say GNR either, it's old guns, to differentiate. Hell, it's a better name than "Guns and the Illusions" which was thought up by some red headed dude whose name slips my mind. That name is just ironic considering many people think the new band is Axl's illusion.

[Apollo]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

Not involved in the discussion.....but on a side note, this just shows how bands work. Players come and go. Tracii was there for awhile and left. Rarely does a band have all its original members for 50 years. Guys usually play in tons of different bands.

[sailaway]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

Exactly my thoughts,and according to Smeagol rule # 32 ", only original members are not hired hands" So we have Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner as original members,now let's see how this rule works

Oh crap Adler is going to lose it when he finds out he was just a hired hand!!!!!

Go tell him,he is camped outside the RRHOF. In fact this is such an important discovery I think the cupcake patrol should contact each non original member of every group in history and let them know they are hired hands now.

:rofl-lol: oh man you're killing me at work here loll

I'm at home drinking NyQuil,and faxxing in my work,to get ahead. Don't want to miss a concert over silly paperwork. :xmassrudolph:

[classicrawker]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

Not involved in the discussion.....but on a side note, this just shows how bands work. Players come and go. Tracii was there for awhile and left. Rarely does a band have all its original members for 50 years. Guys usually play in tons of different bands.

People call them hired hands Apollo because that is what they are. They are not equall members to Axl and get paid a set amount of money to perform in his band and can be fired at will. Tracii and Slash were equal partners with Axl and the other band members of Guns MkI and Guns MkII (so as not to get the Axl fans all twisted) so hence they were not hired hands they were partners...In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

[sailaway]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

Not involved in the discussion.....but on a side note, this just shows how bands work. Players come and go. Tracii was there for awhile and left. Rarely does a band have all its original members for 50 years. Guys usually play in tons of different bands.

Exactly,I'm attempting to illustrate how absurd this entire "hired hands" concept is,either every non original member gets the hired hand tag,or drop it. Double standards never impressed me.

[moreblack]

In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

I mean, could they realistically vote Axl out? Or overrule him in any way? don't really think so, they are not on equal footing.

[classicrawker]

In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

I mean, could they realistically vote Axl out? Or overrule him in any way? don't really think so, they are not on equal footing.

According to Axl's countersuit against Azoff, section 5 "Nature of the Action"

"Rose controls the operation, direction, and membership of the band. Rose has the authority to retain and release all constituent members of the band"

So in other words they are his employees and have no say in what happens unless he o.k.s it......sounds like hired hands to me.......

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/axlrose.pdf

[sailaway]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

Not involved in the discussion.....but on a side note, this just shows how bands work. Players come and go. Tracii was there for awhile and left. Rarely does a band have all its original members for 50 years. Guys usually play in tons of different bands.

People call them hired hands Apollo because that is what they are. They are not equall members to Axl and get paid a set amount of money to perform in his band and can be fired at will. Tracii and Slash were equal partners with Axl and the other band members of Guns MkI and Guns MkII (so as not to get the Axl fans all twisted) so hence they were not hired hands they were partners...In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

And every band has a leader,granted not one that owns the name but one that pulls more weight and calls the shots. Hetfield fired Jason from Metallica,so Trujillo is a hired hand.

Megadeth is run by Mustaine,etc.

When the AFD lineup was together they had a mathmatical formula for figuring out who got what percentage,Axl had the majority of that. He was always the obvious leader,even Mick Wall admits that.

Axl got Slash & Duff to record "one in a million" even though they both admittedly had first degree ethenicity,slash by heritage and Duff by relatives. Can't deny Izzys songwriting skills,but once he left most of the lyrics were written by Axl.

It was always his band,everyone quit or was fired.Now its his band legally,he brought the name in. It's a new lineup of very talented musicians,and its 2011. Move on.

[Del Norte]

People have. You haven't moved on since you can't except they're hired musicians.

"And every band has a leader,granted not one that owns the name but one that pulls more weight and calls the shots."

That's the difference. That's not some small detail. If the entire band was for something, but Axl against, the band goes against. If you have a problem with them being hired musicians... that's you're problem but don't expect people to pretend these guys are something they're not.

[classicrawker]

Hetfield fired Jason from Metallica,so Trujillo is a hired hand.

No actually this is not true mate. Lars was on the Howard Stern show last week and confirmed that Jason quit and was not fired....He had a major conflict with Hetfield over his side projects and got pissed and quit...sound familiar? and Trujillo is not a hired hand. They gave him 1 million dollars to join the band and a piece of the action...this was detailed in the "Some Kind of Monster" documentary

When the AFD lineup was together they had a mathmatical formula for figuring out who got what percentage,Axl had the majority of that. He was always the obvious leader,even Mick Wall admits that.

No again you are wrong about this. They had a formula for writing credits and Axl did not get the majority but they were equal partners in other band business.

Axl got Slash & Duff to record "one in a million" even though they both admittedly had first degree ethenicity,slash by heritage and Duff by relatives. Can't deny Izzys songwriting skills,but once he left most of the lyrics were written by Axl.

Axl always wrote most of the lyrics so no shocker there but he did not write the majority of the music

It was always his band,everyone quit or was fired.Now its his band legally,he brought the name in.

No actually it was not always his band. In Guns Mk I and MkII he was a partner with the other band members and where do you get he bought the name. According to the info we have Slash and Duff signed over their rights to him and the only grey area is how it happened. Nobody claims Axl paid them anything for the rights to the name not even Axl.......

It's a new lineup of very talented musicians,and its 2011. Move on.

I realize that and Axl can do whatever he wants with the name. I have also always said his band was very talented but you can't dispute they are his hired hands as it is what it is......

And I have moved on mate I am just correcting yours and other Axl fans revisionist history..................do some research next time before you make your posts..........

[sleeper]

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

Not involved in the discussion.....but on a side note, this just shows how bands work. Players come and go. Tracii was there for awhile and left. Rarely does a band have all its original members for 50 years. Guys usually play in tons of different bands.

People call them hired hands Apollo because that is what they are. They are not equall members to Axl and get paid a set amount of money to perform in his band and can be fired at will. Tracii and Slash were equal partners with Axl and the other band members of Guns MkI and Guns MkII (so as not to get the Axl fans all twisted) so hence they were not hired hands they were partners...In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

And every band has a leader,granted not one that owns the name but one that pulls more weight and calls the shots. Hetfield fired Jason from Metallica,so Trujillo is a hired hand.

Megadeth is run by Mustaine,etc.

When the AFD lineup was together they had a mathmatical formula for figuring out who got what percentage,Axl had the majority of that. He was always the obvious leader,even Mick Wall admits that.

Axl got Slash & Duff to record "one in a million" even though they both admittedly had first degree ethenicity,slash by heritage and Duff by relatives. Can't deny Izzys songwriting skills,but once he left most of the lyrics were written by Axl.

It was always his band,everyone quit or was fired.Now its his band legally,he brought the name in. It's a new lineup of very talented musicians,and its 2011. Move on.

All your post proves is if someone has a valuable company and is interested in growth and expansion the last person that they should hire as the CEO is Axl Rose.

[moreblack]

In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

I mean, could they realistically vote Axl out? Or overrule him in any way? don't really think so, they are not on equal footing.

According to Axl's countersuit against Azoff, section 5 "Nature of the Action"

"Rose controls the operation, direction, and membership of the band. Rose has the authority to retain and release all constituent members of the band"

So in other words they are his employees and have no say in what happens unless he o.k.s it......sounds like hired hands to me.......

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/axlrose.pdf

they are what they are, it's pretty clear in actions and in execution, that they get limited/no say in business decisions. They are there strictly to learn the songs, play the songs.

Edited September 19, 2011 by moreblack

[Apollo]

Explain it all you want. You guys are using the term hired hands as an insult. It is petty and childish.

Ive never heard the term hired hands ever used before this forum (in reference to a band). Slash snakepit - u guys never refer to the players as hired hands.

So the metallica bass player is not a hired hand because they paid him to be in the band???? Hhmm. So if the current members are being paid.....if they receive a piece of the action from tours/albums......then they won't ne hired hands anymore?

People using hired hands are just doing it to be derogatory, or they have never played in a band before.

It is like calling bobbo bobo. It is just to get a reaction.

These guys are musicians, playing in a band.

But it is silly for forum members to argue over this.

[WhazUp]

In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

I mean, could they realistically vote Axl out? Or overrule him in any way? don't really think so, they are not on equal footing.

According to Axl's countersuit against Azoff, section 5 "Nature of the Action"

"Rose controls the operation, direction, and membership of the band. Rose has the authority to retain and release all constituent members of the band"

So in other words they are his employees and have no say in what happens unless he o.k.s it......sounds like hired hands to me.......

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/axlrose.pdf

Yup sounds like it to me too...