Use Your Delusion 1 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) 2011 has seen a steady re-examination of pop culture from 20 years ago. Hinged on the anniversary of Nirvana's grunge lodestar Nevermind, anyone nostalgic for 1991 could also check out Cameron Crowe's Pearl Jam 20 documentary, watch Soundgarden on tour (support from the Meat Puppets), enjoy the revived Beavis And Butthead, or the DVD of 1991: The Year Punk Broke. However, at the time, almost all of these were dwarfed by the release of Use Your Illusion I & II – Guns N' Roses' sprawling, long-delayed follow up to 1987's Appetite For Destruction. If anyone remembers Use Your Illusion now, though, it's as a byword for hubris, pomposity and a terminally unfashionable strain of stadium metal that was duly killed by grunge. 2011's retro fest will apparently pass with no homage to what was, in 1991, the biggest thing in pop music.This erasure of Use Your Illusion from the collective memory is odd. On its release it was an enormous cultural event; midnight store openings, five-star reviews, seven-times platinum sales for both albums and a mammoth, 194-date tour marked by riots, resignations and the eventual explosion of the bassist's pancreas. But after this, the band set about enthusiastically traducing its own legacy with awful punk covers, a revolving door of session hacks and long periods of torpor. Axl Rose's grand folly became one of those things – like Thatcherism, or Robbie Williams – that was enormously popular at the time, but that nobody would later admit to having enjoyed.In truth, the albums are sporadically brilliant (although the bad stuff is so remarkably terrible that it has a kind of halo effect on the music around it). What really condemned Use Your Illusion to ignominy was the fact that at the moment it arrived Kurt Cobain redefined what a rock star should be. And in 1991 that meant flannel shirts and political correctness, rather than stars and stripes cycling shorts and songs challenging journalists to a punch-up. Both parties did their bit to ramp up this hostile dichotomy: Rose reportedly threatening Cobain at the MTV Awards; Cobain publicly mocking GN'R for being "establishment rock'n'roll".With 20 years' distance, Rose and his grunge nemesis don't seem so different: both were angry, provincial ingrates and, just as Nirvana were credited with killing off a lot of bad music, Guns N' Roses had dealt a similar death blow to the 1980s glam metal scene just three years earlier. The counterfactuals suggested around Nevermind's anniversary have focused on the great work that a still-living Cobain could have made. But, given these similarities, it's at least possible that he might have followed Axl Rose's lead, turning into a loopy, mansion-bound recluse, tinkering with unfinished projects, piling on the suet and emerging sporadically to sue his ex-bandmates and have a punch-up with Tommy Hilfiger. Maybe in another 10 years' time the hoopla surrounding Guns N' Roses (and those regrettable cycling shorts) will be forgotten to the point that Use Your Illusion will finally get a fair hearing.SOURCE: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/oct/15/guns-n-roses-use-your-illusion?newsfeed=true Edited October 15, 2011 by Use Your Delusion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyp44 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Fuck nirvana I always say that nirvana would be no where as popular as they are today had that drug addict fuck not killed himself. I don't understand how people can praise a person like that. On top of that nirvana music is very depressing and so simple it's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tange Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 nevermind was an overblown album with four great songs and shit for the rest. it started the downfall. if they were so damn influential how does anyone explain numetal in 1997 and 1998, Limp biscuit and other such garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I really don't understand the love for Nirvana. It's an okay band... I'm not that into Grunge but fuck-- I'll take Pearl Jam's Ten over Nevermind ANY day. I think the fact Kurt killed himself during a moment of Nirvana hype was essential for Nirvana's legend status today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyp44 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Kurts voice sucks sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintari Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) There is no denying that Nevermind was a huge album, but most people forget that Ten was more popular at the time. Ten and UYI both outsold Nevermind. '91 was a great year for music all around. Aside from those albums we also had Achtung Baby, aguably U2's greatest album, Dangerous, the last "real" album from MJ, and a slew of great albums from "grunge" bands.Nirvana and Ten are being celebrated because Pearl Jam and the remaining members of Nirvana are heavily promoting the twentieth anniversary. Has Axl, or any other member of GNR, even mentioned UYI? I guess playing "Estranged" is Axl's way of celebrating UYI's twentieth anniversary.Nevermind gets more praise because it's more original. Pearl Jam's ten is basically classic rock where as Nevermind is a genre and style of it's own. Nothing sounded like it then and nothing has sounded like it since. Another reason why Nirvana and Nevermind is beloved is because Kurt changed both modern music AND pop culture in the US. Before Nirvana it was common to turn on MTV and see Warrant,Slaughter,Guns N Roses,Poison and Motley Crue. After Nirvana blew up those bands were replaced by Soundgraden,Smashing Pumkins,Primus,Alice In Chains,Pearl Jam,Radiohead,Red Hot Chili Peppers,Soul Asylum,Stone Temple Pilots,NIN,Rage Against the Mahine,Beck etc. Kids were throwing out their tight frosted jeans for alternative cloths. They were taking up political causes like gay/women's rights etc. Pop culture did a COMPLETE 180 and it all kicked off after Smell Like Teen Spirit hit MTV.This is why Nirvana will always be held in high regard. Any band that can have that sort of effect on society will always achieve life after death. Edited October 15, 2011 by Nintari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31illusions Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) 1991 was an awesome year for Rock music. Use Your Illusions, The Black Album, Nevermind, Slave to the Grind and No more Tears. Back when Rock Ruled and MTV was cool. Edited October 15, 2011 by 31illusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchman Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Guns / Nirvana....Stupid.You don't have to hate one thing to love another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nambis Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 cobain was an outstanding songwriter, and nirvana was an outstanding band. you're a fucking IDIOT if you think otherwise. it seems that some of the Axl freaks around here think it's cool to dislike cobain and nirvana because of the fued between cobain and axl, but keep in mind that even your idol thought nirvana was AWESOME. :fuckyou: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kill Devil Hill Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 cobain was an outstanding songwriter, and nirvana was an outstanding band. you're a fucking IDIOT if you think otherwise. it seems that some of the Axl freaks around here think it's cool to dislike cobain and nirvana because of the fued between cobain and axl, but keep in mind that even your idol thought nirvana was AWESOME. :fuckyou: Or they just don't like Nirvana...I like Nirvana. I don't love 'em, but I like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 cobain was an outstanding songwriter, and nirvana was an outstanding band. you're a fucking IDIOT if you think otherwise. it seems that some of the Axl freaks around here think it's cool to dislike cobain and nirvana because of the fued between cobain and axl, but keep in mind that even your idol thought nirvana was AWESOME. :fuckyou: Not everything revolves around Axl rose.I didn't like nirvana. Loved mother love bone. Soundgarden. Pearl jam. None of which had anything to do with whether or not I liked GnR.You need to work on your anger issues. Most of your posts are over the top with aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielsevenn7 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 A lot journalists seem to make it out that Nirvana and grunge killed GNR. Except that the Illusion tour lasted and sold out stadiums almost till Kurt killed himself 3 years afterward. It is laughable. If Guns would have put out an original record in 95 or 96 it would have dominated. Metallica put out Load in 97 and it dominated and so did everything else they did for the next 4 years. I think Nirvana is ok. Nevermind is a good record. I have all of them except Bleach--which I've heard, just never bought. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains--all better than Nirvana. If Kurt never killed himself, they would not be seen as the legend they are. He didn't even like Nevermind himself. I think each Illusion record has sold more to date than Nevermind. They are at least very close. 15 million for each Illusion and last I looked it was 12 for Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use Your Delusion 1 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 A lot journalists seem to make it out that Nirvana and grunge killed GNR. Except that the Illusion tour lasted and sold out stadiums almost till Kurt killed himself 3 years afterward. It is laughable. If Guns would have put out an original record in 95 or 96 it would have dominated. Metallica put out Load in 97 and it dominated and so did everything else they did for the next 4 years. I think Nirvana is ok. Nevermind is a good record. I have all of them except Bleach--which I've heard, just never bought. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains--all better than Nirvana. If Kurt never killed himself, they would not be seen as the legend they are. He didn't even like Nevermind himself. I think each Illusion record has sold more to date than Nevermind. They are at least very close. 15 million for each Illusion and last I looked it was 12 for Nevermind.Pretty sure Nevermind is actually a couple million ahead of Appetite....whoops.Appetite trashes Nevermind when it comes to sales, I don't perticually like Nirvana, I find their music quite boring, but there is not doubting Kurt's talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielsevenn7 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Everywhere I've looked nevermind beats appetite so prove me otherwise.http://prince.org/msg/8/304825Everywhere I look Appettite beats Nevermind. I was wrong about Nevermind's sales compared to the Illusions, however. I was wrong on both accounts, actually. All three records sold more than I thought. Of course, it has been a few years since I looked. And the numbers are always disputed or fudged or estimated up depending on what you are reading. The 12 million of Nevermind was in the US alone. That is the number I was thinking about. It is somewhere around 25million worldwide. Appetite is just under 30 million world wide. The Illusions are each at around 18 million worldwide. Considering the Illusions are the "forgotten" recrods of GNR and Nevermind is the masterpiece of Nirvana....I didn't see any other Nirvana record on there. I saw Lies in addition to the other 3 early gnr records.That link is not the Billboard site. It is a an unofficial Prince website with the Billboard list on it. I wasn't going to spend forever looking.......it is what came up on Google near the top with the word "Billboard top selling albums of all time" in it. I have read similar lists in Billboard before--and other sources. Edited October 16, 2011 by gabrielsevenn7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I remember Soundscan being the reason why NWA, Garth Brooks, and Nirvana charting at #1. Nirvana were in the right place at the right time. A lot of people coming out of college in the late 80s-early 90s becoming consumers of indie music in general also played a part in Nirvana's success. It was really Courtney, not Kurt, who taunted Axl. And she would've been the one throwing punches at Axl, not Kurt. The legacy of Nirvana seemed to be about taking the theatrics out of it and "party like a rock star". Had Duff never left, he would've been a part of it. After all, his drummer went to Mother Love Bone, and also gave GNR a ride to their first gig outside of California. Gary was almost in GNR but Adler was tied to the hip with Slash. I don't see the BFD about Axl's shorts, any more than what Jagger wore in 1981. In hindsight, things always seem dorkier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnRDuff1 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains--all better than Nirvana.+100000000. Alice have been my "flavor of the month" 3rd fave since March when Mike Starr died. And yeah I think it's naive to think that Kurt killing himself and basically making the statement that fame ≠ happiness had zero to do with the band's lionization. GnR = 3 yrs of sold out stadiums and arenas. Nirvana = 1500 in a club. Idk just don't get it and never have. Grohl was the best musician and the best Singer in the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 nevermind was an overblown album with four great songs and shit for the rest. it started the downfall. if they were so damn influential how does anyone explain numetal in 1997 and 1998, Limp biscuit and other such garbage.That one's easy, Pantera came out with Vulgar Display of Power which out-heavy'd everything that came before it and did it with down-tuned riffs like Walk which didn't need a lot of speed. At the same time Rage Against The Machine's debut album brought heavy music and rap together in a way that made sense. Korn picked up on this in a big way, and the rest is history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielsevenn7 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 nevermind was an overblown album with four great songs and shit for the rest. it started the downfall. if they were so damn influential how does anyone explain numetal in 1997 and 1998, Limp biscuit and other such garbage.That one's easy, Pantera came out with Vulgar Display of Power which out-heavy'd everything that came before it and did it with down-tuned riffs like Walk which didn't need a lot of speed. At the same time Rage Against The Machine's debut album brought heavy music and rap together in a way that made sense. Korn picked up on this in a big way, and the rest is history...And is history now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Nevermind is the best record to come out in the last 30 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packersnroses Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Nevermind is the best record to come out in the last 30 years...Opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnR Chris Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 haha. "Nevermind" the best record in the last 30 years?Appetite beats the shit out of Nevermind. So does In Utero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auad Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 nevermind is superior than illusions.fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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