Less Running = Better Vocals?

[mcalldp]

After attending the Orlando show and watching bits from the next shows, I noticed that Axl seems to be pulling off screams and such and not being out of breath, as we've seen in the past. I was paying attention to this during the Orlando show and noticed that he seems to be timing his running around these parts, anyone else notice or agree with this? When I saw him on the Illusion tour or vids of later years he was running like a madman but always out of breath on parts. It seems he is now aware of this and actually taking it into acount during the performance or perhaps it's the smaller stage? Anyway, seems like forward progress on the vocal approach from what I am hearing and seeing. I don't think he's in any better shape than when I saw him in 91-92 so I have to think it's stage technique based around the running. To back this theory up, when he played a festival and got pissed off and sang Better whiile standing in one place, he sounded better as well. I think this is a change in dynamics that's being done on purpose...maybe I'm wrong? Still, I don't hear the same out-of-breath missed phrases problem of old on this tour so far AT ALL.

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[Stro]

This might be the most obvious thread of all time.

[Tonyp44]

This might be the most obvious thread of all time.

+1

[mcalldp]

This might be the most obvious thread of all time.

+1

Obvious? I don't thnk so. After 20 years, a singer changes his way of singing on stage? That seems pretty big. I mean, it goes against all thoughts that Axl just calls in shows or that he doesn't have the fire anymore. To me, the fact that he's willing and able to change and grow at this time is pretty cool, of course, you didn't mention in your reply if you agree with my observation? He was not doing this on the last tour. But perhaps you either disagree or knew this was coming (realized the stage difference and knew he would not be running at set times?) If so, I want that insider info! I'm not sure what's obvious about this change, I think it's a calculated change that shows growth as a vocalist, which I did not expect on this tour. Or from any musician at a later stage in their career. But then, maybe he's just been on the treadmill more, not sure what you think from your sparse posts(?)

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[Kill Devil Hill]

This might be the most obvious thread of all time.

+1

Obvious? I don't thnk so.

Do you really not see the obviousness in "Less Running = Better Vocals?"

[wasted]

they could just put some videos up of Axl running across the stage.

[mcalldp]

This might be the most obvious thread of all time.

+1

Obvious? I don't thnk so.

Do you really not see the obviousness in "Less Running = Better Vocals?"

Not trying to cupcake at all but to be honest, and to round your question a bit (sorry), "no". I do understand the simplistic thought of "Less Running = Better Vocals" but I don't see that it's something he has done over the last 20 years and I do see it as somethng that he is doing now. I am not trying to put you on by asking a simple question. I agree, running less OBVIOUSLY means you have better breath. I guess I should break it down into better questions and say (1) I don't think he has worked his running around his singing in the past do you? (2) I think it seems to be on puropse and new to recent concerts, do you think so?

For someone a few decades into their career to actually still work on their craft, to me, is interesting and of note. Sorry if the post title emplied that this was a straight forward dumb-ass question. That's not how I meant it. I meant it as an observation on a change in his vocals and wonder actually, if it may be due to working with a coach (?). Just my thought and perhaps you disagree but from seeing multiple live performances over the years I really feel he has changed his physical dynamics on this tour. Just My Opinion!

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[mcalldp]

they could just put some videos up of Axl running across the stage.

Agree, and while I apologize for making the original thread seem simplistic (less running = better breath) I have to say, I thnk video would prove, that in his best shape (ie...Illusion tour before voice burn out at a low weight) compared to now (no matter how good you think he looks for his age he is not 25 years old anymore PERIOD.) He is pulling off stuff in these first shows that he missed even at his height at a younger age.

I agree, video would be a good way to process this but I can tell you, in 91, singing You Could Be Mine, he was running from one end of the stage to the other like he was on crack, which was great energy! - but it was obvious that he missed some bits due to having no air left in his lungs. My thought/opion/observation is that he has actually gotten better as a vocalist and is ON PURPOSE working his stage runs around parts of song which he never did before.

I think it is something that is practiced, in my opinion, probably influenced by a vocal coach. At any rate, I see Axl doing things vocally now that are thoughtful in regards to how he uses his voice in a way that I don't think can be 'per chance he's just having a good night'. On top of that, I think that, if true, it provides proof that he is working at his craft STILL. I would also like to note that his off-stage parts at the Orlando show were VERY short and while I am sure the Oxygen tank is still there, I wonder how much use it's actually getting, if you look at his time off stage, it very nominal.

Again, not trying to be simplistic to the point of this being dumb but I actually think there are some real changes, (improvments) in Axl as a vocalist that point to continued improvment above just having a 'good night'.

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[DaneisKing1389]

Anybody think less running = easier breathing?

[mcalldp]

Anybody think less running = easier breathing?

Anybody think Axl is dong this on purpose compared to any other time in his concert history? I realize the original question seems simple but please read replies to understand the dynamics of the question rather than just replying with the obvious. I've already apologized for the original question being obvious but further explanation, I think, shows the asking of something more detailed.

1) Did you already know and/or expect that a smaller stage and running around etended vocal lines was part of this tour?

2) Do you disagree, do you think it's just a fluke and Axl has happened to have a few good nights?

3) Do you see the difference in performance when comparing it to other shows from the past (any era)?

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[dalsh327]

they could just put some videos up of Axl running across the stage.

That would be funny. And as soon as he gets to the mic about to sing, cut to more footage of him running.

[Stro]

It's probably less influenced by his vocal coach and more that he is 50 years old and it is a lot harder on your whole body to be running around non-stop. It's not just his vocals, but his back, his knees, his feet. But it isn't a new thing. He's done that off and on forever, even on the Illusions tour. He did it quite a bit in 2006, but wouldn't stop running around in 2002. It felt like he ran around more then than in the 90s, which would go against the "he's fat and out of shape" talk from that period of time.

I don't think it is a big deal, though. Every vocalist changes their style the older they get. You have to. Check out any performance of Steven Tyler, Mick Jagger, or Roger Daltrey from the 70s and then the 2000s. They had to change their style and physical habits on stage to continue singing at their level.

[Gagarin]

He's basically been performing the same since 2006.

[mcalldp]

It's probably less influenced by his vocal coach and more that he is 50 years old and it is a lot harder on your whole body to be running around non-stop. It's not just his vocals, but his back, his knees, his feet. But it isn't a new thing. He's done that off and on forever, even on the Illusions tour. He did it quite a bit in 2006, but wouldn't stop running around in 2002. It felt like he ran around more then than in the 90s, which would go against the "he's fat and out of shape" talk from that period of time.

I don't think it is a big deal, though. Every vocalist changes their style the older they get. You have to. Check out any performance of Steven Tyler, Mick Jagger, or Roger Daltrey from the 70s and then the 2000s. They had to change their style and physical habits on stage to continue singing at their level.

Thanks for your response, it was a well thought-out reply. I can't say I agree with it all though. I think many artists get stuck in their ways and do not change later in their carreer. Steven Tyler is a wonderful example of someone that REALLY practices his craft. He's met with every vocal coach crafted by God and takes wonderful care of his voice! I would venture to say that Axl is more like s Janis Joplin in that his vocals are somethng he could not continue with forever, but he seems to know that and is adapting. I also, have to disagree on the Illusions tour and running, I have never seen Axl not do his crazy run full tilt at any show until this tour. I would love to see video to show this! My thought is, he still does it but it is -around- parts of songs that would wind him and from all posts about the oxygen tent etc...He took more time off stage in 91-92 than I saw him take in Orlando.

I am not trying to be combative and apprciate that you took the time to make a well thought out comment, much better than the "of course he has better breath without running" bits that ignored (In full) my further comments. I just think there is more to it. I hope you post again as I like your comments regarding age and how that may be a factor. I would think that would be something worth discussion. I mean, does anyone think, at 50 years old, ANYONE could keep up the eneregy and vocals of the current show say...for another ten years?

Having the Stones in the 60's do a tour is a far cry from the phyisical parts needed for GNR vocals and the shows energy. I would vernture to say that noboday in the real world would say at 70, AXL could pull off what he's doing now (Phyisically)- anyone disagree? How about at 60? My opinion, is that Axl is still in the game, improving where he can and giving us some of the best output he ever will.

It's like Muhammad Ali losing his best years due to draft doging incident only Axl came back still capable and- in my opinion, technically*** even better. It won't last forever but I see the next 5-10 years as (boxing reference again) George Foreman type knock-out punch. Of course, ROCK is not the main gig anymore so you will never see GNR as the "biggest band in the world" again, but I do think they are (due to Axl) a contender for something so classic as never to be forgotten and the fact that Axl is adapting a pulling off vocals now that he's missed even in his prime-TO ME - shows a purpose driven change.

I have seen and noticed this live and think that his STAGE STYLE has changed.

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[DaneisKing1389]

Anybody think Axl is dong this on purpose compared to any other time in his concert history? I realize the original question seems simple but please read replies to understand the dynamics of the question rather than just replying with the obvious. I've already apologized for the original question being obvious but further explanation, I think, shows the asking of something more detailed.

I was totally kidding, my bad. The title made me laugh when I read it, which is something very unusual on this forum.

I think there's absolutely a direct correlation between his running around like a madman and his inability to sing his own songs from time to time. I've been saying he runs around way too much to sing everything perfectly. It was different when he was in better shape. It doesn't really explain much of 2001/2002, though.

Edited November 2, 2011 by DaneisKing1389

[mcalldp]

Anybody think Axl is dong this on purpose compared to any other time in his concert history? I realize the original question seems simple but please read replies to understand the dynamics of the question rather than just replying with the obvious. I've already apologized for the original question being obvious but further explanation, I think, shows the asking of something more detailed.

I was totally kidding, my bad. The title made me laugh when I read it, which is something very unusual on this forum.

I think there's absolutely a direct correlation between his running around like a madman and his inability to sing his own songs from time to time. I've been saying he runs around way too much to sing everything perfectly. It was different when he was in better shape. It doesn't really explain much of 2001/2002, though.

Full apologies as I do not have a link to reference but(!) - I THOUGHT I heard/read a comment where Axl stated it was like a work-out to him and the running was kind of mandatory to get that feel. My thoughts on his current stage tactics is that he is WELL versed in what he's doing. From the rugs to help him from slipping to the way he shakes hands with people on the side-stage. To me, it seems that he has practiced some changes, not the least of which is his vocal attack.

Axl hit the WTTJ scream full tilt in Orlando but after was NOT winded AT ALL. This was due, in my opinion, to his phrasing and lack of running during the verses. I think someone has helped him with this, he didn't just decide, "I'm going to quit running before this scream" My argument- and thread open for discussion, is that he has thought this out, changed in a way he has not done before in any concerts, It would be my opinion, it is due to professional influence (vocal coach). Just my thought but I would ask, do you not see and hear any difference from this American concert chain compared to his approach on EVERY other concert he's ever done? My eyes tell me, he's changed, in a great professional and purposeful way. And this includes a difference between 2010!

Edited November 2, 2011 by mcalldp

[Eu4ic]

Ironically, if running helps cardio which helps vocals, running is good for his vocals (overall)

[Gagarin]

Like I posted, he's basically done the same style of performing since 2006.

In 2001 he tried to basically do as he had done before...that didn't work so well. In 2002 he seemed pretty unmotivated, even though he was in shape.

He's doing the same kind of stage moves - more comfortable at it, though, since 2006.

I don't see your 'wow, he's learned something!' epiphany.

[mcalldp]

Ironically, if running helps cardio which helps vocals, running is good for his vocals (overall)

Um....but not runnig while he's singing. Or, are you taking a piss? Actually, I THINK Axl does a lot of cardio as he seems to carry around machines, even backstage, for cardio stuff. However, We talk about weight (flame suit on!!!) I have a hard time seeing that he works out on cardio in any significant way and has the pounds on him he does. Now, before you bitch at me let me say, I am not holding him to the working-man standard of the person that sits behind a computer 40 hours a week but someone that does music for a living. NOT caring about magazine covers or looking like a model- JUST having the time and professionals at your call to keep you in the best shape for singing, I think he's not as in-shape physically as he could be.

I know, everyone is going to bitch about this comment and how looks have nothing to do with it etc.. but I give a shite not, there is NO WAY anyone can convince me that Axl Rose could not be in better physical shape. My father is the same age, runs 6 miles a day and is in better shape than me. Do I think Axl is giving us some of the best performances of his career right now? Yes. Do I think that his physical aspect could be better and afftect (in a positive way) his performance? Yes. Not a BIG deal but had to say it to show my borders of opinion. I have to say, I wouldn't mind seeing him become a running partner with Baz.

[mcalldp]

Like I posted, he's basically done the same style of performing since 2006.

In 2001 he tried to basically do as he had done before...that didn't work so well. In 2002 he seemed pretty unmotivated, even though he was in shape.

He's doing the same kind of stage moves - more comfortable at it, though, since 2006.

I don't see your 'wow, he's learned something!' epiphany.

Gagarin, thanks for posting with a non-bot comment. I appreciate your opinion but I disagree and this is where I think this is a cool discussion. I DON'T think Axl moved around his vocals in 2006 or in 1992 for that matter. My opinion is that he's doing something new. I may be wrong and you can disagree but this is why I posted this. If I look to my memories of 2001-2001 Axl ran like crazy and missed full lines! Now, I see something more reserved in oder to create better vocals and it just doesn't seem to be per chance to me. I would love to compare video. People Think "Old Axl" was so much better and I think HORSESHIT, "Old Axl" was winded and missed lines all the freaking time. I think Axl is at the top of his game right now, and I do not think that is just due to a few good nights, per chance.

I will one up it. *DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK AXL HAS A VOCAL OR STAGE COACH*?

[wasted]

they could just put some videos up of Axl running across the stage.

Agree, and while I apologize for making the original thread seem simplistic (less running = better breath) I have to say, I thnk video would prove, that in his best shape (ie...Illusion tour before voice burn out at a low weight) compared to now (no matter how good you think he looks for his age he is not 25 years old anymore PERIOD.) He is pulling off stuff in these first shows that he missed even at his height at a younger age.

I agree, video would be a good way to process this but I can tell you, in 91, singing You Could Be Mine, he was running from one end of the stage to the other like he was on crack, which was great energy! - but it was obvious that he missed some bits due to having no air left in his lungs. My thought/opion/observation is that he has actually gotten better as a vocalist and is ON PURPOSE working his stage runs around parts of song which he never did before.

I think it is something that is practiced, in my opinion, probably influenced by a vocal coach. At any rate, I see Axl doing things vocally now that are thoughtful in regards to how he uses his voice in a way that I don't think can be 'per chance he's just having a good night'. On top of that, I think that, if true, it provides proof that he is working at his craft STILL. I would also like to note that his off-stage parts at the Orlando show were VERY short and while I am sure the Oxygen tank is still there, I wonder how much use it's actually getting, if you look at his time off stage, it very nominal.

Again, not trying to be simplistic to the point of this being dumb but I actually think there are some real changes, (improvments) in Axl as a vocalist that point to continued improvment above just having a 'good night'.

it's not an Olympic test of can I sing while running. It does look good when he runs across the stage though, the crowd reacts also.

I guess showing Axl running across the stage wouldn't work but in real time.

I'm sure he's had vocal coaches, is that a crime?

Edited November 2, 2011 by wasted

[fumardude]

Seen gnr 4 times but on december 20 2006 in los angeles ..they played a good 3 hours .. axl was a monster that night..running ..jumping.. he even fell 1 time..izzy came out.. im hoping he comes back!! GNR \\m//

[Stro]

Ironically, if running helps cardio which helps vocals, running is good for his vocals (overall)

Um....but not runnig while he's singing. Or, are you taking a piss?

Surely you can't be that dense to not understand what is being said there. He's pointing out the irony (very clearly) that the same running that hurts his vocals on stage is actually helping his overall cardio, which helps his vocals in the long run. He isn't saying that running while singing is good for his vocals.

[Liquor & Whores]

I'd love to see Axl running more than now

but

I know it would affect his voice

BTW

he moves around a lot for a guy who's almost 50

Edited November 2, 2011 by DrDrei

[Ak1nney]

I personally think Axl's movement on stage is PERFECT. If he ran around more it'd be a little cheesy. I think his style has gotten better and it fits more current day. I'm not a big fan of the guitarists running around the stage, because it makes it seem like that's the bands stage gimmick/move. But whatever, it doesn't really affect the overall show. I think it's smart for Axl to only run and sing parts that he can pull off, not sure how that's a crime. As long as he doesnt stand still the entire show, I'm happy.