How many "Chinese Democracy tours" have there been?

[Voodoochild]

About the majority of fans not caring about new music... That is true, no doubt about it. But this is a safe zone for the band.

If they are trying to just please those people, they will never be any more than a nostalgia act indeed. I'm not talking about the setlists for the European tour right now, I'm talking about releasing some new music for real and standing up for it, releasing videos, promoting it and playing it live. They may not be as sucessful as their peak, but it at least they will be relevant for their fans that trully care.

[One.In.A.Million]

About the majority of fans not caring about new music... That is true, no doubt about it. But this is a safe zone for the band.

If they are trying to just please those people, they will never be any more than a nostalgia act indeed. I'm not talking about the setlists for the European tour right now, I'm talking about releasing some new music for real and standing up for it, releasing videos, promoting it and playing it live. They may not be as sucessful as their peak, but it at least they will be relevant for their fans that trully care.

That's what I miss about GN'R, there desire and effort to promote or advertise themself on a major scale. I think the last time they did this was their performance at the 2002 VMA's, since then they haven't done anything to promote themselves on a worldwide level, they seem content in keeping a low profile and keeping it "safe".

Edited May 13, 2012 by One.In.A.Million

[Cosmo]

Thing is... Axl seems to prefer pleasing the casual fans that crucified him in RiR and HoF instead of the fans that got his back... that's just not right.

[SoulMonster]

2009/2010 as well. I think all it does is reinforce the negative views of this current Gun N Roses that are there persoanlly. Doesn't help at all apart from making some coin.

They get excellent reviews and thousands of ecstatic fans leave the shows every night, that can only help the band and create more interest for the next record.

Only us hardcore fans care about them not playing any new songs, the casual fans couldn't care less as long as they get to hear the hits -- they'd probably prefer another classic before a new song. And it is the casual fans the band need to win over, not us...we are a marginalized, irrelevant group that will buy the next record regardless.

No, the average thinks of them as a cover band. Touring the same songs from 20 years ago mainly, after all the stuff Axl has said over the years I would have thought he was very keen to seperate himself from that era of Guns N Roses but it seems like making some money is a higher priorty.

I have no idea how anything of what you said relates to what I said. Did you even read what I wrote? Do you disagree with anything I wrote? The "no" suggests you do, but what follows is completely unrelated to my post. It's like you just used my post as a starting point for a completely unrelated complain about a lack of productivity.

Thing is... Axl seems to prefer pleasing the casual fans that crucified him in RiR and HoF instead of the fans that got his back... that's just not right.

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Edited May 13, 2012 by SoulMonster

[The Archer]

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Agreed.

The people who really have his back are his loyal band-mates and Beta and her kids. The fan forums are full of people who vilify them.

[mrandyk]

It's not labeled as a Chinese Democracy tour, but not one single things has changed to separate it from the CD tours. Same setlist, same band, same artwork on everything. They should relabel it to fit what it really is, either a lazy cash grab or a contractual obligation.

[EhEh]

2009/2010 as well. I think all it does is reinforce the negative views of this current Gun N Roses that are there persoanlly. Doesn't help at all apart from making some coin.

They get excellent reviews and thousands of ecstatic fans leave the shows every night, that can only help the band and create more interest for the next record.

Only us hardcore fans care about them not playing any new songs, the casual fans couldn't care less as long as they get to hear the hits -- they'd probably prefer another classic before a new song. And it is the casual fans the band need to win over, not us...we are a marginalized, irrelevant group that will buy the next record regardless.

No, the average thinks of them as a cover band. Touring the same songs from 20 years ago mainly, after all the stuff Axl has said over the years I would have thought he was very keen to seperate himself from that era of Guns N Roses but it seems like making some money is a higher priorty.

I have no idea how anything of what you said relates to what I said. Did you even read what I wrote? Do you disagree with anything I wrote? The "no" suggests you do, but what follows is completely unrelated to my post. It's like you just used my post as a starting point for a completely unrelated complain about a lack of productivity.

Thing is... Axl seems to prefer pleasing the casual fans that crucified him in RiR and HoF instead of the fans that got his back... that's just not right.

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Because you said it is the casual fan they are trying to win over, and how are they doing that? By playing the classics? Like I said that just reinforces that they are effectively a cover band. Wrong way of going about it imo.

[Young_Gun]

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Agreed.

The people who really have his back are his loyal band-mates and Beta and her kids. The fan forums are full of people who vilify them.

Lol you think those people would of the paycheck stopped? I'm sorry, I know those guys are all nice and I'm sure they get along with Axl, but they have bills to pay and you have to be kidding me if you think they would stick around if it meant not getting remunerated.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Young_Gun

[SoulMonster]

Because you said it is the casual fan they are trying to win over, and how are they doing that? By playing the classics? Like I said that just reinforces that they are effectively a cover band. Wrong way of going about it imo.

I don't think it matters if they are perceived as a cover band or not, as long as people are positive towards the band. By delivering great shows focused on the beloved classics, lots of buzz are created from newspapers articles and word-of-mouth. Casual fans return home with renewed interest in the band after seeing what they can do with the classic songs and with the interspersed new material, and newspapers print good reviews that many more casual fans read with interest. People that thought GN'R was dead and buried realize that this is not correct, but that the band is active and well with great musicians and chemistry. The end result of such successful touring activity is that the general market gets more piqued and appreciative about new music.

Trying to win us over is meaningless. We are already won over. We will buy the record when it comes out regardless. The band should focus on those that are on the fence, those that are not certain if they could bother to dish out the money for a new GN'R record. Those that had forgotten the band still existed or have no relationship with the current lineup. And this market segment is, in my opinion, best served by giving them a great live show consisting of mainly classic songs but also a few strong songs from CD (which they might just have heard a few times before but not enough to really appreciate), more than trying to force on them completely new songs..

[deja_vu]

Because you said it is the casual fan they are trying to win over, and how are they doing that? By playing the classics? Like I said that just reinforces that they are effectively a cover band. Wrong way of going about it imo.

I don't think it matters if they are perceived as a cover band or not, as long as people are positive towards the band. By delivering great shows focused on the beloved classics, lots of buzz are created from newspapers articles and word-of-mouth. Casual fans return home with renewed interest in the band after seeing what they can do with the classic songs and with the interspersed new material, and newspapers print good reviews that many more casual fans read with interest. People that thought GN'R was dead and buried realize that this is not correct, but that the band is active and well with great musicians and chemistry. The end result of such successful touring activity is that the general market gets more piqued and appreciative about new music.

Trying to win us over is meaningless. We are already won over. We will buy the record when it comes out regardless. The band should focus on those that are on the fence, those that are not certain if they could bother to dish out the money for a new GN'R record. Those that had forgotten the band still existed or have no relationship with the current lineup. And this market segment is, in my opinion, best served by giving them a great live show consisting of mainly classic songs but also a few strong songs from CD (which they might just have heard a few times before but not enough to really appreciate), more than trying to force on them completely new songs..

If record sales and dwindling show attendance is any indication the band is pretty much dead here in the U.S.

[SoulMonster]

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Agreed.

The people who really have his back are his loyal band-mates and Beta and her kids. The fan forums are full of people who vilify them.

Lol you think those people would of the paycheck stopped? I'm sorry, I know those guys are all nice and I'm sure they get along with Axl, but they have bills to pay and you have to be kidding me if you think they would stick around if it meant not getting remunerated.

We are not talking about "sticking around" but about being supportive and encouraging. And every thing points to the band members, Del James and the Lebeis family, among others, being just that. Sure, they'd have to find other jobs, but that doesn't mean their friendship would end.

[Young_Gun]

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Agreed.

The people who really have his back are his loyal band-mates and Beta and her kids. The fan forums are full of people who vilify them.

Lol you think those people would of the paycheck stopped? I'm sorry, I know those guys are all nice and I'm sure they get along with Axl, but they have bills to pay and you have to be kidding me if you think they would stick around if it meant not getting remunerated.

We are not talking about "sticking around" but about being supportive and encouraging. And every thing points to the band members, Del James and the Lebeis family, among others, being just that. Sure, they'd have to find other jobs, but that doesn't mean their friendship would end.

Fair point, but when you say "all people do on fan forums is complain" you have to ask yourself, where did the disdain come from? Fans were left in the dark for a good 5 years in the mid-90's only to have Axl come back stating a new album would surface in 2001 and then again in 2002, only to have another 3 years(2003-2005) of silence. Then there was the botched release, the lack of promotion on Axl's part, the same old setlist, the lack of new songs, the Better video that never surfaced, the botched booklet, etc. Axl is no saint. I haven't done a whole lot of complaining as the tour has only started but I do see people's points about certain aspects of the band. Alot of the complaining is justified and alot of the blame falls on Axl. If he thinks the forums are full of whiners than maybe he should analyze exactly why that is.

[Flayer]

Because you said it is the casual fan they are trying to win over, and how are they doing that? By playing the classics? Like I said that just reinforces that they are effectively a cover band. Wrong way of going about it imo.

Trying to win us over is meaningless. We are already won over. We will buy the record when it comes out regardless. The band should focus on those that are on the fence, those that are not certain if they could bother to dish out the money for a new GN'R record. Those that had forgotten the band still existed or have no relationship with the current lineup. And this market segment is, in my opinion, best served by giving them a great live show consisting of mainly classic songs but also a few strong songs from CD (which they might just have heard a few times before but not enough to really appreciate), more than trying to force on them completely new songs..

+1

Marketing 101 here.

[SoulMonster]

Because you said it is the casual fan they are trying to win over, and how are they doing that? By playing the classics? Like I said that just reinforces that they are effectively a cover band. Wrong way of going about it imo.

I don't think it matters if they are perceived as a cover band or not, as long as people are positive towards the band. By delivering great shows focused on the beloved classics, lots of buzz are created from newspapers articles and word-of-mouth. Casual fans return home with renewed interest in the band after seeing what they can do with the classic songs and with the interspersed new material, and newspapers print good reviews that many more casual fans read with interest. People that thought GN'R was dead and buried realize that this is not correct, but that the band is active and well with great musicians and chemistry. The end result of such successful touring activity is that the general market gets more piqued and appreciative about new music.

Trying to win us over is meaningless. We are already won over. We will buy the record when it comes out regardless. The band should focus on those that are on the fence, those that are not certain if they could bother to dish out the money for a new GN'R record. Those that had forgotten the band still existed or have no relationship with the current lineup. And this market segment is, in my opinion, best served by giving them a great live show consisting of mainly classic songs but also a few strong songs from CD (which they might just have heard a few times before but not enough to really appreciate), more than trying to force on them completely new songs..

If record sales and dwindling show attendance is any indication the band is pretty much dead here in the U.S.

Uhm, they sold many hundred thousand records of CD in the US and had decent attendance on the last two US tours. Besides, why would I care about how well they do in the US market?

[SoulMonster]

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Agreed.

The people who really have his back are his loyal band-mates and Beta and her kids. The fan forums are full of people who vilify them.

Lol you think those people would of the paycheck stopped? I'm sorry, I know those guys are all nice and I'm sure they get along with Axl, but they have bills to pay and you have to be kidding me if you think they would stick around if it meant not getting remunerated.

We are not talking about "sticking around" but about being supportive and encouraging. And every thing points to the band members, Del James and the Lebeis family, among others, being just that. Sure, they'd have to find other jobs, but that doesn't mean their friendship would end.

Fair point, but when you say "all people do on fan forums is complain" you have to ask yourself, where did the disdain come from? Fans were left in the dark for a good 5 years in the mid-90's only to have Axl come back stating a new album would surface in 2001 and then again in 2002, only to have another 3 years(2003-2005) of silence. Then there was the botched release, the lack of promotion on Axl's part, the same old setlist, the lack of new songs, the Better video that never surfaced, the botched booklet, etc. Axl is no saint. I haven't done a whole lot of complaining as the tour has only started but I do see people's points about certain aspects of the band. Alot of the complaining is justified and alot of the blame falls on Axl. If he thinks the forums are full of whiners than maybe he should analyze exactly why that is.

Hehe, I was exaggerating, of course . But there is a weird amount of complaining, and although I of course agree that there's been many reasons to complain before -- and you list a fair amount of them -- today the band is doing really well and there really isn't justification for the amount of shit that is thrown at the band regularly at the fan boards. I find the lack of support and encouragement on a fan forum of people who supposedly love the band, to be somewhat paradoxical. My explanation for this paradox is that there are many vocal hangers-on that remain here out of habit but really are more fans of bygone lineups or fans of the dreams they had of what GN'R could have been, than fan of the band today. One cannot expect them to be supportive and encouraging towards a band they don't like anymore. One could, of course, expect them to leave the forum and pursue other interests -- and I am sure most do -- but some will remain because they have friends here, because they take pleasure from being negative creeps, and/or because they have nothing better to do with their lives.

[Young_Gun]

Maybe he doesn't have the impression that we got his back . I mean, if there's any place he should be supported and encouraged it is on the fan fora but all we ever do is complain and ridicule.

Agreed.

The people who really have his back are his loyal band-mates and Beta and her kids. The fan forums are full of people who vilify them.

Lol you think those people would of the paycheck stopped? I'm sorry, I know those guys are all nice and I'm sure they get along with Axl, but they have bills to pay and you have to be kidding me if you think they would stick around if it meant not getting remunerated.

We are not talking about "sticking around" but about being supportive and encouraging. And every thing points to the band members, Del James and the Lebeis family, among others, being just that. Sure, they'd have to find other jobs, but that doesn't mean their friendship would end.

Fair point, but when you say "all people do on fan forums is complain" you have to ask yourself, where did the disdain come from? Fans were left in the dark for a good 5 years in the mid-90's only to have Axl come back stating a new album would surface in 2001 and then again in 2002, only to have another 3 years(2003-2005) of silence. Then there was the botched release, the lack of promotion on Axl's part, the same old setlist, the lack of new songs, the Better video that never surfaced, the botched booklet, etc. Axl is no saint. I haven't done a whole lot of complaining as the tour has only started but I do see people's points about certain aspects of the band. Alot of the complaining is justified and alot of the blame falls on Axl. If he thinks the forums are full of whiners than maybe he should analyze exactly why that is.

Hehe, I was exaggerating, of course . But there is a weird amount of complaining, and although I of course agree that there's been many reasons to complain before -- and you list a fair amount of them -- today the band is doing really well and there really isn't justification for the amount of shit that is thrown at the band regularly at the fan boards. I find the lack of support and encouragement on a fan forum of people who supposedly love the band, to be somewhat paradoxical. My explanation for this paradox is that there are many vocal hangers-on that remain here out of habit but really are more fans of bygone lineups or fans of the dreams they had of what GN'R could have been, than fan of the band today. One cannot expect them to be supportive and encouraging towards a band they don't like anymore. One could, of course, expect them to leave the forum and pursue other interests -- and I am sure most do -- but some will remain because they have friends here, because they take pleasure from being negative creeps, and/or because they have nothing better to do with their lives.

Haha, I won't disagree with you there. Whilst there is alot of complaining going on, I think that most forums contain some form of excessive criticism. Even on the Metallica forum, people were burning the hell out of the band for the production of Death Magnetic years after it's release. I could only imagine what it would have been like if forums were widespread in the mid-90's when Load and Reload came out..

I do have some criticisms of the current band, however most of the time I don't elaborate too much. It's just a band and it wouldn't make an iota of difference really. But you're right about people being attached to the forum. I have found that more often than not, I enjoy conversing with people on this forum about things in general more than conversing about the band itself. There are some funny and intellectual people here. I do agree with the notion that people like BBA(Slashites) and pure "Axlites" are simply not tolerable and should be ignored. There is no discussion with them.