Conspiracy against GNR in the music business

[The Glow Inc.]

(not mentioning any names, sailaway)

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

I'm in the industry, and no one likes Axl. GNR is considered a black sheep and a bad sample for other corporate bands. And bcuz a GNR reunion would sell like crazy, people are trying to push Axl in this way.

As a fan I'd love the reunion most, but I can understand why Axl behaves this way. Bcuz the industry is all about the money, Axl is the last great rock n roll man, after him, there'll be darkness.

[Guest RonMexico82]

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Must kill Axl to see how popular Slash is in the industry.

[RandallFlagg]

Axl is a pretty cool conundrum

Edited February 2, 2012 by RandallFlagg

[wasted]

Anyone not know it was coming out?

[Voodoochild]

There's no conspiracy. Axl should have played the game, but he didn't. The company should have had more consideration towards the band, but it didn't.

And of course airplay in radio isn't just popular demand - they first need to push some singles down the listener's throat and then wait for a demand. They did this for Chinese Democracy for like 1 or 2 days and that was it. Better should have had an incredible push because the song does have a huge appeal - don't get me started with this hook thing, November Rain didn't have one and was a huge success. Also, a good video with some clever plot could have got a viral treatment on the internet.

But anyways, nothing happened. If they could re-release the album with a couple of new songs (hey, better than nothing, right?) they could start this all over again, IMHO. Call a good director from TV ads, make a clever video with some smart distribution and rewrite the fucking history.

[Cosmo]

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Must kill Axl to see how popular Slash is in the industry.

Thanks for exposing your idiocy in this thread. I guess your brain is not capable of posting something constructive.

If they could re-release the album with a couple of new songs (hey, better than nothing, right?) they could start this all over again, IMHO. Call a good director from TV ads, make a clever video with some smart distribution and rewrite the fucking history.

I beleive a re-release will happen before a brand new album...it is the right thing to do.

Definitely the right thing to do. These songs are too fucking perfect not to be acknowledged by the rest of the world. But only if that doesn't delay a new album, and if it comes with at least a few new songs.

[Apollo]

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Must kill Axl to see how popular Slash is in the industry.

Thanks for exposing your idiocy in this thread. I guess your brain is not capable of posting something constructive.

If they could re-release the album with a couple of new songs (hey, better than nothing, right?) they could start this all over again, IMHO. Call a good director from TV ads, make a clever video with some smart distribution and rewrite the fucking history.

I beleive a re-release will happen before a brand new album...it is the right thing to do.

Just out of curiosity....why?

The album sold 4 million copies (give or take a few). This band has toured this album basically all over the world. CD has been out for three years. There are 37,000 youtube videos of the CD songs live and not-live.

I don't believe there is this huge treasure trove of music fans who haven't heard the album yet. And a re-release or a video (three or four years later) isn't going to make them magically purchase the album.

Anybody who has had an interest in the album - has heard it.

So do you think a rerelease with new songs is going to spark up excitement from people who didn't originally buy CD? Why would somebody who had no interest in CD have interest in a re-released CD?

Seriously, the only reason that you would continually re-release an old album is because you know your new music isn't as strong as the old album. Think about that. If this band has a batch of songs that they feel are stronger than CD, then they will release that and let THAT album carry the band for the next couple of years. But if they feel that CD songs are better than the songs they currently have.......then you keep pushing CD. For years and years.

Don't get me wrong. CD is one of my 10 favorite albums of all time. We've just heard a good portion of the songs for a decade already. And the actual album has been out for more than three years. It is time to push the band forward and stop living in the past.

Why release four new songs and 10 old songs.....why not release 14 new songs? If there is enough music for two more albums already, plus new music that the current band writes.......why release old songs, when there is so much new music??????

[Chris 55]

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Must kill Axl to see how popular Slash is in the industry.

Thanks for exposing your idiocy in this thread. I guess your brain is not capable of posting something constructive.

If they could re-release the album with a couple of new songs (hey, better than nothing, right?) they could start this all over again, IMHO. Call a good director from TV ads, make a clever video with some smart distribution and rewrite the fucking history.

I beleive a re-release will happen before a brand new album...it is the right thing to do.

No it's not. Why release an album that's been out for 3 years that has songs that they've been playing for the past 10+ years. It's a great album but let it die already. New music is needed more than an extended version of old music.

[axlsalinger]

A new album could actually do more for CD than re-releasing CD, IMO. A couple of hit singles, maybe people get more interested in what the new GNR is doing, we know the shows are fantastic if they go see the band play live, then maybe they go pick up Chinese.

It's happened before. Bands get a hit album, suddenly there is a lot more interest in their previous material.

Edited February 2, 2012 by axlsalinger

[Voodoochild]

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Must kill Axl to see how popular Slash is in the industry.

Thanks for exposing your idiocy in this thread. I guess your brain is not capable of posting something constructive.

If they could re-release the album with a couple of new songs (hey, better than nothing, right?) they could start this all over again, IMHO. Call a good director from TV ads, make a clever video with some smart distribution and rewrite the fucking history.

I beleive a re-release will happen before a brand new album...it is the right thing to do.

Just out of curiosity....why?

The album sold 4 million copies (give or take a few). This band has toured this album basically all over the world. CD has been out for three years. There are 37,000 youtube videos of the CD songs live and not-live.

I don't believe there is this huge treasure trove of music fans who haven't heard the album yet. And a re-release or a video (three or four years later) isn't going to make them magically purchase the album.

Anybody who has had an interest in the album - has heard it.

So do you think a rerelease with new songs is going to spark up excitement from people who didn't originally buy CD? Why would somebody who had no interest in CD have interest in a re-released CD?

Seriously, the only reason that you would continually re-release an old album is because you know your new music isn't as strong as the old album. Think about that. If this band has a batch of songs that they feel are stronger than CD, then they will release that and let THAT album carry the band for the next couple of years. But if they feel that CD songs are better than the songs they currently have.......then you keep pushing CD. For years and years.

Don't get me wrong. CD is one of my 10 favorite albums of all time. We've just heard a good portion of the songs for a decade already. And the actual album has been out for more than three years. It is time to push the band forward and stop living in the past.

Why release four new songs and 10 old songs.....why not release 14 new songs? If there is enough music for two more albums already, plus new music that the current band writes.......why release old songs, when there is so much new music??????

I wasn't talking like its the best idea, but what they could do if they aren't likely to release a full new album.

But you're right, fans already heard it, but I don't think the mainstream got it yet. I'm talking about non-fans. With a heavy-rotation single, they would buy the track and hopefully the album. The focus are on those potential costumers who are buying Greatest Hits instead.

I know, I know. A new album could do all that. But if Axl isn't that willing to release a new record because he still thinks Chinese deserves a new chance, I think a rerelease is the best way to achieve it.

But really, I don't believe the other new songs they already recorded are like b-sides or just isn't on par to the CD tracks. IMHO its very clear that we didn't get Chinese with the best of the record sessions, just the songs intended to be released first. Not saying the tracklist was influenced by the leaks, I think it's quite the opposite: it leaked because those were the songs intended to be on the 1st album.

[Janis]

Not promoting Chinese definitely impacted the sales. Promotion is key for any artist no matter how big or small they are e.g. MJ was the the popstar in the world and even he was signing CDs in Tower rec in NY 10 years ago for his Invincilble album release. When Axl did the TMS interview I saw people on forums saying they didn't know he was still touring and the interview made them buy a ticket. Axl should do an interview to promote this new club and following European tour. It can only be a positive and gets the fans attention- the ones who don't pread and post forums. There are so many other potential concert goers. He now needs to do a bit of promo for this tour. Otherwise they would have no way of knowing.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Janis

[Janis]

I'm in the industry, and no one likes Axl. GNR is considered a black sheep and a bad sample for other corporate bands. And bcuz a GNR reunion would sell like crazy, people are trying to push Axl in this way.

As a fan I'd love the reunion most, but I can understand why Axl behaves this way. Bcuz the industry is all about the money, Axl is the last great rock n roll man, after him, there'll be darkness.

Thanks, Interesting to hear form someone in the industry. Can you expand a bit? What are the general things that people say about him? IAlso is it his old rep influencing this opinion or his attitude nowadays?

[RNRS]

Thanks, Interesting to hear form someone in the industry. Can you expand a bit? What are the general things that people say about him? IAlso is it his old rep influencing this opinion or his attitude nowadays?

It's both. If fans are frustrated about the lack of a new album, how do you feel someone who has to finance a new album feels? If fans are frustrated about Axl always showing up late, how do you feel a promoter feels about it, realizing he'll have to get everyone to work overtime and pay a crew a lot more money than anticipated?

[The Wicked Hand]

There is no conspiracy.

Axl burned bridges with many ex managers, bailed on the record company for CDs release, angered promoters, fires people at will, sued azzof, hell sued many many people( granted some lawsuits I'm sure warranted ), and just his generaly refused to play the game.

This is why some in the industry have a negative opinion of Axl, therefore people don't go that extra mile for him as they would with others. Fair or not, totally brought on by himself.

This is of course just my theory but it is common sense.

Golden rule: treat others as you would want to be treated, do unto others and whatnot.

[dude69]

I believe Chinese Democracy was a great album and should have gotten it's due, but I believe the mistakes were the fault of Axl and the band more than anyone else...

-People had been hearing the songs as early as 7 years before the album was released (first at House of Blues on New Years Eve 2000, over several tours prior to the album and through leaks). Obviously the leaks weren't the fault of the band, but the curiosity factor was seriously impacted

-The MTV appearance was a disaster. It was very poorly received. I think Axl would have been better off playing one new song then trying to do a medley of older hits..

-There was no follow up to the tours and the MTV appearance...people got excited, only to be let down

-When the albums were finally released, Axl did no interviews. He released no videos. There was no supporting tour. Not a great way to promote the album.

If Axl had done everything that is being done now right as Chinese Democracy was being released, it would have been much more well received. If he went to the big radio stations and promoted "Better" and got out there, it would have been much more well received.

I think it is a shame, because I think it is a phenomenal piece of work. I love what the band is doing now and I think it's great...but it is kind of a day late and a dollar short to turn Chinese Democracy into a hit with the public.

I think if they were to release another album and promote it on the heels of this tour it might really be a good thing though...

[dalsh327]

GNR just need to keep putting new music out. To me, if Hi Def audio becomes a standard on Blu Ray, then they can reissue the back catalog.

There's millions of people who have heard ChiDem, the crowds know the songs, so I don't see a point of a reissue unless they tricked it out with all sorts of stuff.

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

I'm in the industry, and no one likes Axl. GNR is considered a black sheep and a bad sample for other corporate bands. And bcuz a GNR reunion would sell like crazy, people are trying to push Axl in this way.

As a fan I'd love the reunion most, but I can understand why Axl behaves this way. Bcuz the industry is all about the money, Axl is the last great rock n roll man, after him, there'll be darkness.

Thanks, Interesting to hear form someone in the industry. Can you expand a bit? What are the general things that people say about him? IAlso is it his old rep influencing this opinion or his attitude nowadays?

After the death of the physicals, record companies leaned towards SMP deals (strategic marketin partnership) which includes but not limited to tailor made events,management,synch,merch,digital projects and corporate artist usage, which has nothing to do with finding out and supporting artists, but creating them. And because there are no longer people acting like Seymour Stein or Ahmet Ertegun, you see all the old bands and artists doing the stadiums and big shows but no one new.

Our biz is dominated by gay people and Jewish (not against this, I got lotsa gay and Jewish friends, and I love them, I'm just giving a fact), gays still don't like Axl, Jewish people are, for the good of their biz, always after the people that they can make money out of (they like their Slash and push Slash more instead of Axl) , in Axl's case, bcuz he's anti-corporate, not synch and SMP friendly, people who are not gay or Jewish also don't care about him bcuz he doesnt do marketing, pr,synch or anything, that's why they dont want to spend their time on Axl.

Also Axl's reputation amongst the industry has always been shaped by the tabloid-like news, people dont know the facts about Axl and GNR, just shape an image of him thru the shit they read and heard from the irrelevant people.

On the promoters' side, bcuz the profit margin is narrowing dbd, a late goer and trouble maker GNR is not that much welcome.

I was at Midem for the last week in Cannes, where there was the biggest industry gathering was, and in my off times I always had my "Chin Dem", "Axl For President" or 2006 tour tshirts. People were always commenting nice things about GNR how cool the tshirt and GNR was, and these people are the labels, distributors, publishers, digital service providers and musicians/producers, following how much an asshole and psycho was Axl and how nice was Slash

Most of them even didnt listen to the Chin Dem.

In order to get things as good as back in the old days, they should do what they did in terms of marketing. But I'm totally not so hopeful for this.

Edited February 3, 2012 by MYWIFEMYLIFE

[Spuffy78]

I work for a Radio Station. There's such a thing as top of the hour in the log we'll play a well known song to get an average listener to tune in thus, you hear like moves like jagger a 100 times.

CD isn't radio friendly.

[ohmygod]

The sad truth is that gnr will always get the short end of the stick from executives and what not in the entertainment world because they know the astronomical dollar amount they could be making if this was the appetite line up. Hence, imho they are holding out with the major investment in guns n roses till that one mythical day the appetite lineup reunites.

P. S. that's one of the reasons I love Axl and current gnr. Axl could sell out for that major pay day, but has continually refused and instead invests his time to the gnr of today.

[RandallFlagg]

I believe Chinese Democracy was a great album and should have gotten it's due, but I believe the mistakes were the fault of Axl and the band more than anyone else...

Yep and just because it wasn't as well received as it should have been by the mainstream, doesn't change the fact that it's a great album for many.

[Young_Gun]

I believe Chinese Democracy was a great album and should have gotten it's due, but I believe the mistakes were the fault of Axl and the band more than anyone else...

-People had been hearing the songs as early as 7 years before the album was released (first at House of Blues on New Years Eve 2000, over several tours prior to the album and through leaks). Obviously the leaks weren't the fault of the band, but the curiosity factor was seriously impacted

-The MTV appearance was a disaster. It was very poorly received. I think Axl would have been better off playing one new song then trying to do a medley of older hits..

-There was no follow up to the tours and the MTV appearance...people got excited, only to be let down

-When the albums were finally released, Axl did no interviews. He released no videos. There was no supporting tour. Not a great way to promote the album.

If Axl had done everything that is being done now right as Chinese Democracy was being released, it would have been much more well received. If he went to the big radio stations and promoted "Better" and got out there, it would have been much more well received.

I think it is a shame, because I think it is a phenomenal piece of work. I love what the band is doing now and I think it's great...but it is kind of a day late and a dollar short to turn Chinese Democracy into a hit with the public.

I think if they were to release another album and promote it on the heels of this tour it might really be a good thing though...

Couldn't have said it better myself...

Edited February 3, 2012 by Young_Gun

[DaNutz]

I work for a Radio Station. There's such a thing as top of the hour in the log we'll play a well known song to get an average listener to tune in thus, you hear like moves like jagger a 100 times.

CD isn't radio friendly.

This I love, Better, The Blues....All very radio friendly.

[RandallFlagg]

If they didn't have solos and an aggresive vocalist they'd be more radio friendly.

[DaNutz]

It wasnt necessary to have band members promote the album....Giving interviews to radio stations and a few magazines and videos that no one watches pales in comparison to the record label (or Best Buy in this case) promoting it. Wall Mart promoed the hell out of AC/DC and I never once heard from a band member. This was an experiment with Best Buy which had ZERO experience doing this kind of thing and they blew it big time.

The label had little incentive to promo it because they gave the rights over to Best Buy for X amount of months. It was Best Buys responsibility...I know Axl said he doesnt fault them. Best Buy probably assumed it would be in labels best interest to still promote it as label still had rights outside of USA, and im sure there were other incentives thrown into deal to make it worthwhile for both parties to gain if CD sold well in US. But label was happy with Best Buys down payment and were holding a grudge on Axl for past years, so they put there $ and attention elsewhere...End of story.