Conspiracy against GNR in the music business

[Coma16]

It wasnt necessary to have band members promote the album....Giving interviews to radio stations and a few magazines and videos that no one watches pales in comparison to the record label (or Best Buy in this case) promoting it. Wall Mart promoed the hell out of AC/DC and I never once heard from a band member. This was an experiment with Best Buy which had ZERO experience doing this kind of thing and they blew it big time.

The label had little incentive to promo it because they gave the rights over to Best Buy for X amount of months. It was Best Buys responsibility...I know Axl said he doesnt fault them. Best Buy probably assumed it would be in labels best interest to still promote it as label still had rights outside of USA, and im sure there were other incentives thrown into deal to make it worthwhile for both parties to gain if CD sold well in US. But label was happy with Best Buys down payment and were holding a grudge on Axl for past years, so they put there $ and attention elsewhere...End of story.

Well in most cases maybe. With this being GNRs "comeback" record it was up to everyone to promote it. Fact is, we don't know what happened or who ultimately dropped the ball. Hopefully one day we will because the story of Chinese Democracy needs to be heard!

[wasted]

I'm hoping they do 2 huge videos for Catcher n TWAT.

[RandallFlagg]

Catcher would have made an amazing video, there's a fan made video and it's rad.

Edited February 3, 2012 by RandallFlagg

[The Wicked Hand]

That IS super cool.....

[Squid]

That IS super cool.....

That video sucked. hmmmm... a GnR video featureing a cute little kid.

HURL!!!!!!!!!!

[TeeJay410]

I think Axl might have been afraid of the album's failure. If Axl went out and promoted like those other groups and the album were still to sell how it did, that would hurt pretty bad. But if he doesn't do any promoting, it fits within the canon, of disappearing when everyone is most interested, and provides a solid fallback (and legitimate one) if the album doesn't sell well.

Now don't think I'm saying Chinese was a failure. But there's no debating it sold below expectations.

[dalsh327]

The documents Axl n their team presented vs Azoff coverer this if im not wrong

(cant find them :/)

The lawsuit stuff is on the Smoking Gun website.

[The Wicked Hand]

Squid, that is your opinion. I think it is a nice piece.

Not everything has to be rock n roll, do cocaine...lol

[dalsh327]

I think Axl might have been afraid of the album's failure. If Axl went out and promoted like those other groups and the album were still to sell how it did, that would hurt pretty bad. But if he doesn't do any promoting, it fits within the canon, of disappearing when everyone is most interested, and provides a solid fallback (and legitimate one) if the album doesn't sell well.

Now don't think I'm saying Chinese was a failure. But there's no debating it sold below expectations.

I think there was some fear of that, but at the same time, he had to have wanted it out. It sounded like something was going on in his life at the time, if there was a time he was being reclusive, it was when that came out. Being on the road seems to be good for him, and they should just have a mobile studio so they can put it together while they're on the road. We're talking about a lot of experience in that band where they're at Sinatra level of one-take perfection if need be, that Axl's voice is the only thing that could hold things up. I do think Axl should try his hand at movie scoring because he loves that stuff and go under a pseudonym to see how people like it. I just think he's not getting those offers, just ones from movie studios that want to use WTTJ, SCOM or PC.

But he's got Gigabytes of vocals already laid down and new ideas coming out, along with what the other band members have to contribute. He has enough stuff in the studio to make 12 songs and just have this band fully realize it.

Trent Reznor, Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo, and Danny Elfman made the transition from rock band to composer with no problem, they enjoy being able to create something without having to go on the road and tour to support it. Randy Newman was kind of rock, but he was prob one of the first to make that switch. McCartney did a couple of them (George Martin scored and composed a lot of stuff pre-Beatles), Billy Joel's written symphonies, same with Zappa, and that really is hard work for any musician. Elton had Paul Buckmaster, whose gone on to compose mostly film scores. John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page gave movie scoring a go, actually I could see Jonesy coming in to the GNR camp and working with them. If he can relate to the likes of Page and Plant, he could def. fit in with GNR and be a mentor as far as that goes.

Most of the ChiDem songs make for good movie music, every single one of those songs could be used in a movie, but to compose and score music is a whole other set of muscles. Reznor needs Atticus Ross to be able to do that. Axl had Pitman and Tobias to be able to help him out with that, but I'm pretty sure DJ, Bumblefoot, and Ferrer know how to make that all work. Otherwise you wind up with Brian Wilson left to his own devices, trying to piece together all these fragments, or bands that do half-assed concept albums that don't deliver. I can see why Peter Gabriel doesn't want to go back to doing Lamb with Genesis, the storyline blows. But in 2012, he could easily score and compose a movie, but he's a notoriously slow worker.

[RNRS]

Our biz is dominated by gay people and Jewish (not against this, I got lotsa gay and Jewish friends, and I love them, I'm just giving a fact), gays still don't like Axl, Jewish people are, for the good of their biz, always after the people that they can make money out of (they like their Slash and push Slash more instead of Axl) , in Axl's case, bcuz he's anti-corporate, not synch and SMP friendly, people who are not gay or Jewish also don't care about him bcuz he doesnt do marketing, pr,synch or anything, that's why they dont want to spend their time on Axl.

This is quite honestly one of the most retarded theories as to why Chinese Democracy has failed etc. that I have ever heard. Putting the blame on the fact that the business is dominated by gay people and therefore they don't like Axl makes absolutely no sense, it's where the entire hatred towards Jews and Gays in WWII stemmed from. The Jews had the power, therefore the Jews are to blame for everything is wrong. Further on, first you blame the Jews and Gay people, and then it's the others that don't like him either. It's a dangerous theory you're writing out there but frankly I don't really think you understand what you're saying yourself.

[prettytiedup88]

That really is a huge claim to make re: jews and gays. Whilst this view may have held true way back when, to even bring this argument to the table is incredibly outdated.

CD isnt a commercial success because by todays rock standards it is a very unique, niche piece of work that wasnt backed by label or band.

The untold story would make for great reading however!

[AGS]

It wasnt necessary to have band members promote the album....Giving interviews to radio stations and a few magazines and videos that no one watches pales in comparison to the record label (or Best Buy in this case) promoting it. Wall Mart promoed the hell out of AC/DC and I never once heard from a band member. This was an experiment with Best Buy which had ZERO experience doing this kind of thing and they blew it big time.

The label had little incentive to promo it because they gave the rights over to Best Buy for X amount of months. It was Best Buys responsibility...I know Axl said he doesnt fault them. Best Buy probably assumed it would be in labels best interest to still promote it as label still had rights outside of USA, and im sure there were other incentives thrown into deal to make it worthwhile for both parties to gain if CD sold well in US. But label was happy with Best Buys down payment and were holding a grudge on Axl for past years, so they put there $ and attention elsewhere...End of story.

Yeah, and besides all that Axl n his team said in the lawsuit papers, if im not wrong, managers and people who works for them are the one responsable to arrange interviews, photos etc etc... must suck and must be very hard to realize the guy that is supossed to promote your album (wich had a rushed release, cover etc) is the one trying to bring you down... i would do the same Axl did, ill go awol, fuck the album, the press, the manager, the label... he must have feel betrayed like hell... but hmm, i think im repeating what the legal documents said...

[gnrkoncerti]

1.Chinese democracy didn't fail.Album sold 5milion copies world wide.There are respect numbers. 2.Public in US sucked.

[AGS]

1.Chinese democracy didn't fail.Album sold 5milion copies world wide.There are respect numbers. 2.Public in US sucked.

+1

Yep i even went to a release party with at least 1k people and played the album loud, had some beers, and after that a little party

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

Our biz is dominated by gay people and Jewish (not against this, I got lotsa gay and Jewish friends, and I love them, I'm just giving a fact), gays still don't like Axl, Jewish people are, for the good of their biz, always after the people that they can make money out of (they like their Slash and push Slash more instead of Axl) , in Axl's case, bcuz he's anti-corporate, not synch and SMP friendly, people who are not gay or Jewish also don't care about him bcuz he doesnt do marketing, pr,synch or anything, that's why they dont want to spend their time on Axl.

This is quite honestly one of the most retarded theories as to why Chinese Democracy has failed etc. that I have ever heard. Putting the blame on the fact that the business is dominated by gay people and therefore they don't like Axl makes absolutely no sense, it's where the entire hatred towards Jews and Gays in WWII stemmed from. The Jews had the power, therefore the Jews are to blame for everything is wrong. Further on, first you blame the Jews and Gay people, and then it's the others that don't like him either. It's a dangerous theory you're writing out there but frankly I don't really think you understand what you're saying yourself.

Mine is not a theory, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm giving the facts why Axl is not very welcome in the industry, being gay or Jewish is nothing bad or something, gays don't like Axl, they still are thinking the person thing is Axl's thought about every gay person, which is not ture, but gay people hating Axl it's a fact. Jewish are more into biz than the music itself generally, fact. And they got Slash in their hands, which is more marketable, fact. And other people who runs the biz are of course caring about the biz first, thus Axl is not an asset for them too, fact. Why Axl is not relevant is the fact that he's not marketable and not a very popular character he is. To me, I like Axl as himself. If Axl was someone who's more marketable, industry would push him forward.

By the way, two very important music man that I referred in my previous message, Stein and Ertegün, are Jewish and Muslim. Gay people like Elton and Freddie are GOD, you are barking at the wrong tree.

And also Chin Dem did not fail btw, it has not reached its potential, yes, but it's not a fail.

[31illusions]

Our biz is dominated by gay people and Jewish (not against this, I got lotsa gay and Jewish friends, and I love them, I'm just giving a fact), gays still don't like Axl, Jewish people are, for the good of their biz, always after the people that they can make money out of (they like their Slash and push Slash more instead of Axl) , in Axl's case, bcuz he's anti-corporate, not synch and SMP friendly, people who are not gay or Jewish also don't care about him bcuz he doesnt do marketing, pr,synch or anything, that's why they dont want to spend their time on Axl.

This is quite honestly one of the most retarded theories as to why Chinese Democracy has failed etc. that I have ever heard. Putting the blame on the fact that the business is dominated by gay people and therefore they don't like Axl makes absolutely no sense, it's where the entire hatred towards Jews and Gays in WWII stemmed from. The Jews had the power, therefore the Jews are to blame for everything is wrong. Further on, first you blame the Jews and Gay people, and then it's the others that don't like him either. It's a dangerous theory you're writing out there but frankly I don't really think you understand what you're saying yourself.

Personally I agree with the statement made by MYWIFEMYLIFE

Volcano stop trying to act like THE WHOLE WORLD is against Axl. His reputation preceds

him and agreeing with that stupid statement about gays and jews is just retarded and racist.

Edited February 4, 2012 by 31illusion

[Nosaj Thing]

1.Chinese democracy didn't fail.Album sold 5milion copies world wide.There are respect numbers. 2.Public in US sucked.

It did fail bro, 5 million copies is not enough when the wait was so damn big. I really think the record needs more exposure, it needs to be heard. Mygnr is NOT the world.

[Lose Your Illusions]

Ok lets see here...

AC/DC Black Ice

Promoted to the point it was shoved down our throats

Metallica Death Magnetic

Decent promotion, TDTNC pushed hard as a single

Foo Fighters Wasting Light

Already has two singles over played on main stream radio

Van Halen A Different Kind Of Truth

If I hear Tattoo one more time i'll fuckin' stab the first person I see

Bruce Springsteen Wrecking Ball

I love the new single "We Take Care of Our Own" but 15 times a day on main stream radio? come the fuck on

My point is why was CD put on the back burner? The album IMO is 1000000 times better than all the albums I mentioned.

Did Axl piss off the man that much to deserve this shit?

Good point but I don't know if its a conspiracy. I think Axl just got fucked over again by the lack of support of the record company. CD got played on the radio when it came out, but let's face fatcs: not one song on the album is mainstream radio rock 2008. If it was, I'd kill myself.

[Apollo]

1.Chinese democracy didn't fail.Album sold 5milion copies world wide.There are respect numbers. 2.Public in US sucked.

It did fail bro, 5 million copies is not enough when the wait was so damn big. I really think the record needs more exposure, it needs to be heard. Mygnr is NOT the world.

Five million copies and several successful tours isn't a success in your world? Wow.

[loko]

In world where the biggest star Lady GaGa selling 8 million copies of her second album, 5 million is a big success.

[wasted]

CD is mind-blowing, the awesomeness is almost impossible to comprehend.

[phaeryen]

Ok lets see here...

AC/DC Black Ice

Promoted to the point it was shoved down our throats

Metallica Death Magnetic

Decent promotion, TDTNC pushed hard as a single

Foo Fighters Wasting Light

Already has two singles over played on main stream radio

Van Halen A Different Kind Of Truth

If I hear Tattoo one more time i'll fuckin' stab the first person I see

Bruce Springsteen Wrecking Ball

I love the new single "We Take Care of Our Own" but 15 times a day on main stream radio? come the fuck on

My point is why was CD put on the back burner? The album IMO is 1000000 times better than all the albums I mentioned.

Did Axl piss off the man that much to deserve this shit?

Axl was the conspirator, because he went AWOL.

he didn't piss anyone off except himself. HE was the one not willing to do any promotion.

he was scared because he knew his album wasn't up to par and he was right.

so he chickened out and turned his cellphone off like a scared little girl.

thats why there was no promotion. dont blame the company.

blame the man who was nowhere to be found.

Edited February 4, 2012 by phaeryen

[sailaway]

Our biz is dominated by gay people and Jewish (not against this, I got lotsa gay and Jewish friends, and I love them, I'm just giving a fact), gays still don't like Axl, Jewish people are, for the good of their biz, always after the people that they can make money out of (they like their Slash and push Slash more instead of Axl) , in Axl's case, bcuz he's anti-corporate, not synch and SMP friendly, people who are not gay or Jewish also don't care about him bcuz he doesnt do marketing, pr,synch or anything, that's why they dont want to spend their time on Axl.

This is quite honestly one of the most retarded theories as to why Chinese Democracy has failed etc. that I have ever heard. Putting the blame on the fact that the business is dominated by gay people and therefore they don't like Axl makes absolutely no sense, it's where the entire hatred towards Jews and Gays in WWII stemmed from. The Jews had the power, therefore the Jews are to blame for everything is wrong. Further on, first you blame the Jews and Gay people, and then it's the others that don't like him either. It's a dangerous theory you're writing out there but frankly I don't really think you understand what you're saying yourself.

Mine is not a theory, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm giving the facts why Axl is not very welcome in the industry, being gay or Jewish is nothing bad or something, gays don't like Axl, they still are thinking the person thing is Axl's thought about every gay person, which is not ture, but gay people hating Axl it's a fact. Jewish are more into biz than the music itself generally, fact. And they got Slash in their hands, which is more marketable, fact. And other people who runs the biz are of course caring about the biz first, thus Axl is not an asset for them too, fact. Why Axl is not relevant is the fact that he's not marketable and not a very popular character he is. To me, I like Axl as himself. If Axl was someone who's more marketable, industry would push him forward.

By the way, two very important music man that I referred in my previous message, Stein and Ertegün, are Jewish and Muslim. Gay people like Elton and Freddie are GOD, you are barking at the wrong tree.

And also Chin Dem did not fail btw, it has not reached its potential, yes, but it's not a fail.

Actually this is altogether viable,and however politically incorrect it comes off,It is truth.

Truth is often unwelcome,ugly,and everyone wants to shoot the messenger,but it's still truth.

Not to say there aren't other factors that come into play,but to ignore this aspect would be turning a blind eye to the entirety of the situation.

[The Wicked Hand]

What about the 14 million dollars for Chinese ?

I wouldn't give someone I disliked to the pOint of carreer sabotage

That kind of money.

I'm sure there are some homosexuals that resent axl for those lyrics

But they are obviously not the higher ups at the label which means they would be the

Label minions or something , and I don't see them risking their jobs because of one line Axl wrote in a song in the 80s???

Could be wrong but that don't add up to me.

[sailaway]

(not mentioning any names, sailaway)

Proud to be known as pro-GNR! Gunner since 88'

So thank you Sugaraylen.

The best buy folks didn't give ChiDem the publicity that Walmart gave AC/DC. Walmart had an entire section devoted to Acca-Dacca,including merchandise,and Actually playing the Album,same with Metallica.

Best buy had a fucking cardboard tower with ChiDem in it,stuck in the middle of all their electronic gadgets they were pushing for Xmas.

There was obviously a glitch in what was supposed to happen (ie:3 different covers,releasing a subpar booklet) So obviously some misdirection in what was supposed to happen at release,and what actually did happen is an area in which not enough information has been released.

When an Album is released you have the following costs/categories:

Manufacturing: including disc-mastering,replication,shipping.

Graphic Design: including Design,Photography,Illustration,Production.

Recording Package:incl. Cover,booklets,inserts,label imprinting.

That's just a small part of what is involved,business plans are catalysts,they can attract people with skills,show how those skills will be used,and everything,including investors,engineers,strangers,graphic designers,printers and manufacturers will all have to be on the same page to carry out plans.

There is no guarantee that every aspect of your plan will proceed as planned,unless every point is outlined and put into legalese.

From all that has been said and heard from several angles,the release did not happen as promised,corners were cut and although Best Buy probably did their best with what they were given,clearly the release did not go as supposedly agreed upon.

Doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to take all into consideration,and it also explains the reluctance to promote a release that was blatantly undermined,betrayal seems a logical feeling to have.

That it did as well as it did,considering all of the misteps,and botched plans,speaks volumes about the sheer quality of the music itself.