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Is this club tour an 'Azoff' sponsored event?


Andrei Shevchenko

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I don't know about the vocal issues being because he didn't give 100% this is Axl he gives everything on the stage the majority of the time, he was playing music and the fans were there for a show by a Guns N' Roses line up there's no way he's going to give a half assed experience. Even in early stages of the 2010 tour his vocals weren't at their best but you could tell he was really pushing and eventually got there (yeah yeah he could rehearse and keep in shape but he'll do what he feels best I guess).

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I don't know about the vocal issues being because he didn't give 100% this is Axl he gives everything on the stage the majority of the time, he was playing music and the fans were there for a show by a Guns N' Roses line up there's no way he's going to give a half assed experience. Even in early stages of the 2010 tour his vocals weren't at their best but you could tell he was really pushing and eventually got there (yeah yeah he could rehearse and keep in shape but he'll do what he feels best I guess).

I should have clarified my statement a bit - it is primarily the vocal part where I feel the 100% wasn't there. Yes his pitch and timing were good (assuming RIR never happened, which it didn't, right? :rofl-lol: ), but he lost that unbelievable rawness and delivery he had just a year before. He did show up for every gig, performed three hours and completed his obligation, I just feel he held back too much with his voice.

I challenge anyone to find a better vocal performance ever than some of the select shows in 2010 (Toronto and O2 Arena come to mind).

I agree his voice was not as good as 2010. I went to the Toronto show and was blown away by the whole show. I saw them again in Orlando and Greenville. I think he was def giving 110% at both USA shows, but the sound wasnt as good and his voice not as powerful as Toronto. But at the orlando and greenville shows his interaction with the fans and band members was awesome. Talked a lot, smiled, played around on stage.

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Reason I ask is because I personally feel that Axl did not give 100% during the '11 tour, especially when compared to '10. As we know, this last tour was the result of a settled lawsuit which required him to go out on the road and do these shows. I think his vocals were much weaker than in 2010, he had little to no interaction during the shows and it must have killed him to have to do something he didn't want to do.

So my question is - if this is solely a GNR endeavor, is there a possibility we'll see Axl's vocals circa 2010? I really do think he was that much better vocally in '10 than '11.

You re Crazy----The Houston & Dallas show Rocked! Best tour since the 90s

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Reason I ask is because I personally feel that Axl did not give 100% during the '11 tour, especially when compared to '10. As we know, this last tour was the result of a settled lawsuit which required him to go out on the road and do these shows. I think his vocals were much weaker than in 2010, he had little to no interaction during the shows and it must have killed him to have to do something he didn't want to do.

So my question is - if this is solely a GNR endeavor, is there a possibility we'll see Axl's vocals circa 2010? I really do think he was that much better vocally in '10 than '11.

He didn't seem to complain about it too much, and I think most people who went to see GNR would say he was giving it his all at the shows. You can tell he got into a grumpy mood at RIR yet continued to do the show, but that money helped fund the tour that he made no money off of, even though it could just be seen as a payback for a loan that Axl owed Azoff's company. Axl's got one of the best lawyers in LA, but Irving's been doing contracts for 35 years. Like I said, he dealt with mafia guys back in the day, but also knows how to bullshit people with brilliance. Hagar was even impressed by his schmoozing skills.

Ed Van Halen wanted to kill Azoff in '04 when he was out of control, but he's still working with VH. Azoff's too powerful and resilient in the entertainment biz to go to battle with. I'm sure whatever discussion Axl's manager had with Azoff was just about what they needed to do to move on from it.

Axl and Prince get too wrapped up in the courtroom, but that's what happens when creative guys don't give a shit about the business end of it from the beginning and trust people who throw them under the bus. They don't care until real money's being made and realize the ownership of the band is far less than they thought. Musicians are a lot more savvier now, and there's still money to be made, but no one's going to be getting huge contracts unless they're going on Idol or X Factor.

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Reason I ask is because I personally feel that Axl did not give 100% during the '11 tour, especially when compared to '10. As we know, this last tour was the result of a settled lawsuit which required him to go out on the road and do these shows. I think his vocals were much weaker than in 2010, he had little to no interaction during the shows and it must have killed him to have to do something he didn't want to do.

So my question is - if this is solely a GNR endeavor, is there a possibility we'll see Axl's vocals circa 2010? I really do think he was that much better vocally in '10 than '11.

You re Crazy----The Houston & Dallas show Rocked! Best tour since the 90s

I was at both shows, and the Houston show was one of the best Guns shows I have been to.

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I don't think it has to do with not giving 100% on stage, no, I think it has everything to do with him not giving 100% to preserve his voice in between tours.

I mean...He could barely sing at RIR...and his voice only got better after a few shows...which means that he either did not train enough from January 2011 to September 2011. :shrugs:

There is no reason for the band to be on top and for him, the very reason this band exists, to not sound quite as good as the others.

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I mean...He could barely sing at RIR...and his voice only got better after a few shows...which means that he either did not train enough from January 2011 to September 2011. :shrugs:

I think the subpar performance at RIR (and it wasn't that bad) was caused by having a bad day at work and horrible conditions. From everything I've read, Axl takes care of his voice.

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"You think anyone with an I.Q. over 15 would believe your shit..."

It's funny, despite the OP's posts getting sillier, the thread title is actually kinda interesting. Does this tour have anything to do with Azoff or have whatever obligations GNR had with him now been completed?

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If you want to pretend that Axl sounded awful during this last tour, that is your prerogative. Pretty much anybody who went to shows says otherwise. I've seen lots of vids, went to see a show, he sounded great for the most part. Yes Rio was not a great concert, the "Mickey Mouse" voice showed up from time to time, first of all this is not a big deal as some people make it out to be and second of all, it was not an issue in every song. Axl sang great overall, seemed to be in a great mood throughout, performed 3 hours every night, the band was on fire. There is not this massive disconnect between '10 and '11 that you are insinuating.

You do make an interesting point about the lack of Axl interacting with the crowd, he really didn't say a whole lot. Don't think this has anything to do with Azoff, though.

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You guys really think his voice had something to do with not giving 100%? WTF?

Then how do you explain such an incredible performance in '10 vs the lesser performances in '11? I'm talking vocally, only. I don't see how anybody with eardrums could say that any of the '11 shows compared to the '10 shows in terms of Axl's voice.

I was merely putting out a theory that while Axl fufilled his obligation to the Azoff settlement, preserving his voice was a way to not give it all without many noticing.

Give me a break, dude. His voice was worse in '11 'cause it was worse. It's 'cause Axl doesn't take the time to prepare before a concert, some say it's because he had bronchitis, whatever. Axl would NEVER sabotage a nuGnR concert because of that. There are enough people bashing the fuck out of him already. C'mon I can't BELIEVE you really think it's because of Azoff. Really. Think about it.

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You guys really think his voice had something to do with not giving 100%? WTF?

Then how do you explain such an incredible performance in '10 vs the lesser performances in '11? I'm talking vocally, only. I don't see how anybody with eardrums could say that any of the '11 shows compared to the '10 shows in terms of Axl's voice.

I was merely putting out a theory that while Axl fufilled his obligation to the Azoff settlement, preserving his voice was a way to not give it all without many noticing.

Give me a break, dude. His voice was worse in '11 'cause it was worse. It's 'cause Axl doesn't take the time to prepare before a concert, some say it's because he had bronchitis, whatever. Axl would NEVER sabotage a nuGnR concert because of that. There are enough people bashing the fuck out of him already. C'mon I can't BELIEVE you really think it's because of Azoff. Really. Think about it.

Then what is your explanation as to why his voice was notably worse just one year separated from when it was unequivocally his best...ever...at 49 years old?

Not trying to be a dick here or anything but here's my explanation. My sounding his best (opinion of some) then, he really had to go all out in using and abusing his voice. Hence why his voice on a subsequent tour may not sound as good. The only problem I see with this whole argument is that if he really didn't care about this tour than I don't think he would have had a good time. But from what I've seen/read/heard, he really seemed to enjoy himself this past tour.

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Guest NewGNRnOldGNR

The 2011 US shows were as a result of a settlement with Azoff but this theatre run I believe to 100% be the intention & organisation of Guns N' Roses.

Perhaps however the entire US run has been a debt to Azoff and Axl continues to owe him $ hence the theatre schedule with the Euro tour putting the final nail in that treacherous era through opening the door for CD II.

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Yeah Axl half assed the 2011 tour dates

I mean hell he only put on a 3 hour show every night, seen him smiling more than anyother time in recent history, the band chemistry was excellent and they all seemed to be having a great time, bumble at times look worn down but his neck was fucked.

How dare Axl suck it up when he has bronchitis for basicaly the whole tour and never once complained or cancelled a show with the excuse I am sick.

The nay sayers will say bronchitis only usually takes a few weeks to get over but those 3 hour shows would just make it get worse or stay around longer becuase of the strain he was putting on his respitory system.

I guess he should have just cancelled all the shows because he was under the weather so there would be even more for you to bitch about!!!

And how dare he come on stage before midnight, I mean around 10-10:30pm start time is just way to early. I guess you could bitch about the tickets saying 8pm and the opener coming on at around 9pm.

As far as Azoff he had to schedule the tour and Axl had to perform to for fill the agreement money made or lost has nothing to do with it and if up and coming tour was set up by Azoff as part of the agreement who really gives a rats ass they are out there playing.

Well I guess all you people that just like to bitch all the time will find something no matter what he does, hell if there was a reunion you cupcakes would say he was selling out and tring to make big $$.

If you don't like the band then fucking leave it's that simple, good grief!!!!

Edited by bigcountry
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His voice was markedly worse in '11 than in '10 and it wasn't because of bronchitis. Stop making excuses for him and try and contribute something that might help explain that.

Who is judging the voice difference? And who the hell is saying that 2010 was Axl's best year ever? I'm gonna say 1988 Ritz tops last year by leaps and bounds. I've seen shows in 2002, 2006 and 2011 and I thought 2011 was the best year of the three.

I get the feeling that those who saw the 2010 tour think that was the best, and those that saw the 2011 tour think that was the best.

The guy is out there more in the last 2 years than in a long time. I don't care where he goes, I'm happy they are out.

Every time I come to this board it's just people bitching all the time. WE HAVE GNR IN A CLUB SETTING!!!!!!!

And to whoever wants/needs new songs this tour, try talking to those of us who have been following GNR for the last 15 years. This is FAR better than how bad we "needed" songs back then. STOP BITCHING PEOPLE!

Edited by billsguy
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10 bucks says Andrei is yet another banned user who just can't get enough of this forum.

It is obviously a banned member. I just can't remember which one. The knife Chase one? Her name was something like that.

The obsession with harping on 2010 being better than 2011, and the mickey mouse comment gives her away.

I'll put $100 down

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I do not think Axl would not give his all just to spite Azoff... Axl has alot of pride, even though it doesn't show as it's not an obvious show of bravado like Liam Gallagher saying "We're the best band in the world". Like some have said before, it COULD be the bronchitis, although I'm suspicious as it lasted throughout the 3 month tour but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. In RIR is was mostly being VERY under prepared, I have no other excuses for that but the weather and stage setup attributed to the messed lyrics and everything else. 2009 started off VERY rough but after a few months he was fucken stellar. I hope he can get back to that. Until then, I don't see the point in hypothesizing how he will sing in 2012.

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