Kaneda Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 First, let me say that this band is the tightest lineup since the original band. They put on a very professional and solid show. It's no bullshit, great rock n roll. But lately I feel like this band is at a cross road and they have a decision to make: do we move forward as a band, or do we lean heavily into the past. It's not an easy decision at all. As much as us hardcore fans love Chinese D, most people at the shows I've been to respond indifferently to the new material. Nobody can sense that more than the guys up on stage. So what do they do? They play the hits. The songs people love. The songs people came to see. But in doing that, and leaning into the old material, it makes fans think - why aren't the old guys just up there then? We all know the answer to that. As die hard fans, we selfishly want more new material. But if GNR is a brand, that brands equity sinks if new material fails to find cultural relevance. So what do they do? How long can they keep leaning into the past with these new guys before it becomes irrelevant? For some of you, it already has. I'm still on the fence. It looks like Guns is going to be on the road for a while, which is a blessing and a curse for the die hards. It almost guarantees no new material is being studio recorded. So what about the loads of material recorded during the making of CHinese D? Will we ever see it? Sounds like record label issues may keep that material side-lined for while. But who knows...The band is at the crossroads right now. You can feel it in the air. You can sense it at the shows. You can see it in the faces of all GNR fans. They are all holding on to something they love. But holding onto the past makes it so hard to move forward. We all want Axl to succeed and I believe he can find future success if he just puts more music out there. He's surrounded by such talent, but they aren't marketed properly. Nobody knows who these guys are. And can you blame the fans? They have no content to react to. No music videos, no behind the scenes with DJ or Ron. They are sitting on an ocean of content...let it go and I'm sure a lot of good would come of it. That's my two cents...How do you guys feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjm631 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It was horrible when Bill Cosbys kid was shot in LA way back when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young_Gun Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Good topic.I actually feel the band has been at a crossroad since at least 2006. In 2001/2002 they really seemed to be getting things done with recording and touring and then took a halt when the tour was cut short and Bucket subsequently left the band. In 2006 things were hampered with Axl having to tour to earn the finances to finish recording of the album, I'm almost certain he did not want to tour without the record out at the time. By the time the actual record came out, Robin and Brain were pretty much out of the band. 4/8ths(Tobias included) of the of the primary songwriters were gone. Coupled with the leaks and botched record release, the whole ordeal would have been hell for Axl especially, but he is not immune to blame. I do believe that the label did want the album out in the early 2000s but Axl kept recording. It does not make sense that they sunk so much money into it just to hold it back. In 2004(I think that was the year) the label cut funding and Axl was left with tracks that he did not own and an obligation to a corporation that he despised. The situation is probably the same now. The recorded leftover tracks are still the property of Universal/Interscope/Geffen and they still have Guns under contract. Axl probably wants his songs out but the label might want certain things in return. Maybe Axl doesn't want another botched release.The members of the band, to me, are just members of the band. I don't think they have a big say in what songs they play on the night. End of the day, it's Axl's call. So in effect, it's not the band that are at a crossroad, as they are prolific musicians and if it were upto them, I'm sure we would have heard The General live by now. I don't believe he had any intention of putting out Chidem anytime before 2006. Even in 2001 we were given statements that never came to fruition(We will be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs). The label own the recorded studio tracks, but cannot forbid the band in playing them live. Guns have played unreleased songs live before. I can buy that the record label is trying to pressure Axl into a reunion, I can believe that. But the lack of communication(even though it has improved), same setlists and lack of new songs live is daunting. Those are things the label has no influence over. Axl himself is at a crossroad. With himself, the fans, the label, his detractors, ex-bandmembers and the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I think they're recording on the go. And besides that, I think Axl creates primarily for himself. That's why he doesn't prioritize getting his music out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avahland Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl is in charge...he shouldn't worry...and I guess he doesn't worry at all.Hopefully he wil take us to more/other nice places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 First, let me say that this band is the tightest lineup since the original band. They put on a very professional and solid show. It's no bullshit, great rock n roll. But lately I feel like this band is at a cross road and they have a decision to make: do we move forward as a band, or do we lean heavily into the past. It's not an easy decision at all. As much as us hardcore fans love Chinese D, most people at the shows I've been to respond indifferently to the new material. Nobody can sense that more than the guys up on stage. So what do they do? They play the hits. The songs people love. The songs people came to see. But in doing that, and leaning into the old material, it makes fans think - why aren't the old guys just up there then? We all know the answer to that. As die hard fans, we selfishly want more new material. But if GNR is a brand, that brands equity sinks if new material fails to find cultural relevance. So what do they do? How long can they keep leaning into the past with these new guys before it becomes irrelevant? For some of you, it already has. I'm still on the fence. It looks like Guns is going to be on the road for a while, which is a blessing and a curse for the die hards. It almost guarantees no new material is being studio recorded. So what about the loads of material recorded during the making of CHinese D? Will we ever see it? Sounds like record label issues may keep that material side-lined for while. But who knows...The band is at the crossroads right now. You can feel it in the air. You can sense it at the shows. You can see it in the faces of all GNR fans. They are all holding on to something they love. But holding onto the past makes it so hard to move forward. We all want Axl to succeed and I believe he can find future success if he just puts more music out there. He's surrounded by such talent, but they aren't marketed properly. Nobody knows who these guys are. And can you blame the fans? They have no content to react to. No music videos, no behind the scenes with DJ or Ron. They are sitting on an ocean of content...let it go and I'm sure a lot of good would come of it. That's my two cents...How do you guys feel?Actually, they were at the crossroads a long time ago, and they made some bad decisions, as a result they are now a mid tier band averaging 6,000 fans per show, Instead of selling out arena's like AC/DC, Metallica, Van Halen, Aerosmith and on and on. I believe there formula for success Is to stick to what got them here, which Is just straight up Rock N Roll.I would have to say, most of the worlds opinion Is that(judging by the sales numbers) Chinese Democracy wasn't a good Guns N Roses album and wasn't worth 14 years of silence. They need to go back to basics, release a new album ,with at least one or two hit singles, something along the lines of Sweet Child, Paradise City, November Rain and keep there faces plastered everywhere they possibly can, because as of right now America still doesn't accept this version of Guns N Roses, as a matter of fact I would be willing to bet, that the average American couldn't name one other member of the band, other then Axl Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Actually, they were at the crossroads a long time ago, and they made some bad decisions, as a result they are now a mid tier band averaging 6,000 fans per show, Instead of selling out arena's like AC/DC, Metallica, Van Halen, Aerosmith and on and on. I believe there formula for success Is to stick to what got them here, which Is just straight up Rock N Roll.I would have to say, most of the worlds opinion Is that(judging by the sales numbers) Chinese Democracy wasn't a good Guns N Roses album and wasn't worth 14 years of silence. They need to go back to basics, release a new album ,with at least one or two hit singles, something along the lines of Sweet Child, Paradise City, November Rain and keep there faces plastered everywhere they possibly can, because as of right now America still doesn't accept this version of Guns N Roses, as a matter of fact I would be willing to bet, that the average American couldn't name one other member of the band, other then Axl Rose.Axl Rose does not care about that definition of success. He does not care if the average person knows his new band members or songs, if he's matching up to Metallica or not, or if America "accepts" him. He doesn't care to do the same thing and stick to any formula. The path he's chosen is for his own definition of success, which I'd say is making the music he wants to and playing with the people he wants to. Edited February 11, 2012 by Flayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ...because as of right now America still doesn't accept this version of Guns N Roses, as a matter of fact I would be willing to bet, that the average American couldn't name one other member of the band, other then Axl Rose.The average American can't name band members from Van Halen, Metallica or Aerosmith, either . And even if they could, who cares? Why should it matter to me if GN'R is the biggest band in "America" or not? How would that affect my appreciation of their concerts and music? I guess it matters to 15 year-olds...In addition, from a market perspective GN'R shouldn't try to please the blasé US market, but expand into India and China and keep touring South America. And not care about what you and 15 year-old kids in the US says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I think Axl's already written off China... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl Rose does not care about that definition of success. He does not care if the average person knows his new band members or songs, if he's matching up to Metallica or not, or if America "accepts" him. He doesn't care to do the same thing and stick to any formula. The path he's chosen is for his own definition of success, which I'd say is making the music he wants to and playing with the people he wants to.I actually started to write something like that but my post veered off in another direction. Thanks for writing what I intended to write myself .As to the original question:Axl obviously had a vision of being relevant and current, with his plan of three records rapidly. Something has happened, something has thrown a spanner into...eh, something, and now the question is actually quite relevant, unfortunately. I personally do not fear they will go the nostalgia act-path, though, because the band members have hinted numerous times about making new music. That is a clear indication that Axl still has a vision for GN'R, otherwise the band members wouldn't be talking about it, and that's all I need to know. It may take two years, five years, or 10 years, but as long as he is motivated new music will see the light of day, eventually. And until that happens I think we should be happy for all the activity that takes place. The band is out playing club dates!! Guns N' Roses is out playing small club dates like in 1988! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Actually, they were at the crossroads a long time ago, and they made some bad decisions, as a result they are now a mid tier band averaging 6,000 fans per show, Instead of selling out arena's like AC/DC, Metallica, Van Halen, Aerosmith and on and on. I believe there formula for success Is to stick to what got them here, which Is just straight up Rock N Roll.I would have to say, most of the worlds opinion Is that(judging by the sales numbers) Chinese Democracy wasn't a good Guns N Roses album and wasn't worth 14 years of silence. They need to go back to basics, release a new album ,with at least one or two hit singles, something along the lines of Sweet Child, Paradise City, November Rain and keep there faces plastered everywhere they possibly can, because as of right now America still doesn't accept this version of Guns N Roses, as a matter of fact I would be willing to bet, that the average American couldn't name one other member of the band, other then Axl Rose.Axl Rose does not care about that definition of success. He does not care if the average person knows his new band members or songs, if he's matching up to Metallica or not, or if America "accepts" him. He doesn't care to do the same thing and stick to any formula. The path he's chosen is for his own definition of success, which I'd say is making the music he wants to and playing with the people he wants to.So you are trying to convince me and everyone on the board that Axl doesn't care about success,or If people know the songs, or who the band members are? Come on, lets be realistic here, you don't spend 14 years and 15 million dollars making an album that you hope will be unsuccessful and people won't know the songs. The album did not live up to his expectations, It's just that plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naupis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl isn't at a Crossroads. He is content being a nostalgia act. To suggest the band is at a crossroads implies they want to be anything more than that but don't know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl isn't at a Crossroads. He is content being a nostalgia act. To suggest the band is at a crossroads implies they want to be anything more than that but don't know how.An idiotic comment. If there was contentment in being a nostalgia act, there would've been no point in ever releasing CD.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So you are trying to convince me and everyone on the board that Axl doesn't care about success,or If people know the songs, or who the band members are? Come on, lets be realistic here, you don't spend 14 years and 15 million dollars making an album that you hope will be unsuccessful and people won't know the songs. The album did not live up to his expectations, It's just that plain and simple.Eh, there's a huge difference between being the biggest rock act in the world and wanting your music to be appreciated. It is obvious Axl has no motivation for the former, because he doesn't do promotion and he doesn't release music frequently; and it is equally obvious he cares for the latter, because otherwise he wouldn't release music at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naupis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl isn't at a Crossroads. He is content being a nostalgia act. To suggest the band is at a crossroads implies they want to be anything more than that but don't know how.An idiotic comment. If there was contentment in being a nostalgia act, there would've been no point in ever releasing CD.AliAxl did everything he could to pretend it never was released if you remember correctly. I think the label forced the album out, and Axl did everything he could to pretend it never happened. Not exactly someone who was screaming from the rooftops about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl isn't at a Crossroads. He is content being a nostalgia act.Eh, why then did he release a new record only 3,5 years ago?To suggest the band is at a crossroads implies they want to be anything more than that but don't know how.You seem awfully ignorant of GN'R when you haven't heard that both Tommy, Ron, Richard and Dj have expressed eagerness and drive to make a new record as soon as possible and hence be more than a nostalgia act...Tsk tsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyp44 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I actually think axl cares very much about what people think and there's not an artist alive that records an album for people not to like.People tend to forget that axl is an entertainer and its us average people that make him money. I think personnaly he may not be able to write songs like izzy or wes and that's what's delaying the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ...because as of right now America still doesn't accept this version of Guns N Roses, as a matter of fact I would be willing to bet, that the average American couldn't name one other member of the band, other then Axl Rose.The average American can't name band members from Van Halen, Metallica or Aerosmith, either . And even if they could, who cares? Why should it matter to me if GN'R is the biggest band in "America" or not? How would that affect my appreciation of their concerts and music? I guess it matters to 15 year-olds...In addition, from a market perspective GN'R shouldn't try to please the blasé US market, but expand into India and China and keep touring South America. And not care about what you and 15 year-old kids in the US says.Dont try to Insult me with your bullshit comments. I have been a fan from the very beginning. The topic Is Guns N Roses are at a crossroads and I simply stated that they were at a crossroads along time ago and as of right now It has not gone according to planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naupis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You seem awfully ignorant of GN'R when you haven't heard that both Tommy, Ron, Richard and Dj have expressed eagerness and drive to make a new record as soon as possible and hence be more than a nostalgia act...Tsk tsk. Buckethead, Robin, Brain and Tommy were really eager to release albums to, and you saw how well that went.It would seem you are even more ignorant of GNR when you post as if it matters what the band members think/want. Axl runs this ship, and he alone decides if/when new music is coming out regardless of what the rest of the line-up wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So you are trying to convince me and everyone on the board that Axl doesn't care about success,or If people know the songs, or who the band members are? Come on, lets be realistic here, you don't spend 14 years and 15 million dollars making an album that you hope will be unsuccessful and people won't know the songs. The album did not live up to his expectations, It's just that plain and simple.Eh, there's a huge difference between being the biggest rock act in the world and wanting your music to be appreciated. It is obvious Axl has no motivation for the former, because he doesn't do promotion and he doesn't release music frequently; and it is equally obvious he cares for the latter, because otherwise he wouldn't release music at all.What are you talking about with this biggest rock act In the world bullshit? No one even made reference to them ever becoming the biggest rock act In the world again(those days are long gone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It has not gone according to planned.No, it just hasn't gone according to your plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblerose Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 new music = new interest. new interest = $$$$ bring it on GNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It has not gone according to planned.No, it just hasn't gone according to your plan.What was my plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I believe there formula for success Is to stick to what got them here, which Is just straight up Rock N Roll.I would have to say, most of the worlds opinion Is that(judging by the sales numbers) Chinese Democracy wasn't a good Guns N Roses album and wasn't worth 14 years of silence. They need to go back to basics, release a new album ,with at least one or two hit singles, something along the lines of Sweet Child, Paradise City, November Rain and keep there faces plastered everywhere they possibly can, because as of right now America still doesn't accept this version of Guns N Roses, as a matter of fact I would be willing to bet, that the average American couldn't name one other member of the band, other then Axl Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiodefenders Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Axl isn't at a Crossroads. He is content being a nostalgia act. To suggest the band is at a crossroads implies they want to be anything more than that but don't know how.that's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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