Van Halen 1st week sales vs Chines Democracy 1st week sales

[Young_Gun]

Look, whether you enjoy Chinese Democracy more or Another Kind of Truth more, it doesnt fucking matter. Its YOUR opinion whether one album is better than the other. Doesnt make it a fact.

Sitting here fucking arguing over this is ridiculous. Van Halen and Guns arent even close in style.

You guys need to get over yourselves. Seriously, its crazy some of the shit that is said on this forum.

And you people call yourselves fans.

Who Is arguing? Everyone Is giving there opinion, Isn't that what you do In a forum? Are we less of a fan of Guns N Roses because we like other bands, or think that EVH Is a better guitar player then bumblefoot?

It's ridiculous. We're all Axl fans, but I don't see why we have to pretend that we're fans of each and every person he has brought into New GNR over the years.

It has nothing to do with being an Axl fan or a GNR fan. Ron is better than EVH. He is a much better musician. However EVH is a legend and an icon plus an innovater of guitar. But Ron is still a much better musician.

Exactly. Being the first to mainstream it doesn't make EVH a better musician. Ron is a much better musician. Nothing to do with band preferences, I think a lot of guitarists are better than Eddie, Randy Rhodes, Joe Satriani, Streve Vai, John Petrucci, Yngwie, Buckethead, they all kick Eddies ass. Being the first doesn't make you the best. Is T-Bone Walker better than B.B. King? No.

No but being first makes you a fucken pioneer and not an imitator. Stop trying to minimize Eddies efforts. I think Bucket and Bumble SMOKE the hell out of him as guitarists, but Eddie was an innovator and the rest copied what he did. That alone makes him a standout. And I personally dislike most of Van Halens music but I give credit where credit is due.

If that was the case Eddie would simply be a Hendrix imitator, a Hendrix copy. You are right to an extent - but nobody copied him. They used EVH's playing and songs as an inspiration, that's a different story. They have their own style, their own playing, their own sound. But you can hear EVH's influence in their playing, no doubt. Just like you can hear Paul Gilbert's influence in Bucket's playing, Hendrix's in Ron's playing, etc.

You must have replied just before I edited my original post. I changed it to be more specific and made mention that Eruption changed the way guitar was played across multiple genres. It's not about Eddie inventing two-handed tapping(as far as I know, he only made it popular), but before Eruption in 1977, NO ONE played like that. He changed the way solos were played and that became an archetype which is still VERY evident today, 4 decades later. It's not something you can just 'hear' in someone elses playing like "oh that's a Hendrix lick". The actual structure, pacing and techniques used became it's own style. It became the new 12-bar blues for soloing.

Yes, I replied before you made it more specift. He was important, yes, but those techniques were around already but he did shape them in a way that made guitarists play like him, follow him. I mean, that virtuoso kind of guitar playing was actually created by Hendrix mostly imo. If you hear that famous rendition of the US national anthem you'll hear who Eddie followed. The whammy bar use, the slides, effects, etc. It's not like EVH totally created that kind of playing but rather did shape it. I could be wrong, but I know that Hendrix is who you should praise mostly, not EVH.

I mean, listen to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyGGG1I-rf8

That's where most of the guitar playing we've heard came from imo

And to that guy that loves list, take this one not based on popularity but rather technical skill, creativity, versatility, etc...

http://www.bumblefoot.com/press/200507-digitaldreamdoor/200507-digitaldreamdoor.htm

Hmmm I don't see anything resembling the speed, use of tremolo picking, pacing etc that EHV used in Eruption. Of course Hendrix was from a time where guitar playing was not as advanced and I'm not taking away his innovations. But Eddie seemed to take guitar playing to 'another' direction. This is coming from a guy who does not even like Van Halens music(although "Ain't Talkin' bout love" rocks).

[Georgy Zhukov]

Hendrix could have been a lot better if he didn't do so much drugs.

[bran]

the whole who is the better guitar player debate is one that it really doesnt matter its all subjective you could put a top 100 guitarist lists out their and people would reaarange that top 100 a million different ways.

bumblefoot and EVH are amazing players that play totally different styles that play different kinds of music.

Not necessarily. It depends on what you define as "better." If you define it as more skilled, then it's not subjective at all. Objectively, for instance, Neil Peart is a better drummer than Lars Ulrich.

along with about another 100 or so drummers

[Chewbacca]

Aw, come on... Lars isn't a bad drummer

[Bruno P.]

Look, whether you enjoy Chinese Democracy more or Another Kind of Truth more, it doesnt fucking matter. Its YOUR opinion whether one album is better than the other. Doesnt make it a fact.

Sitting here fucking arguing over this is ridiculous. Van Halen and Guns arent even close in style.

You guys need to get over yourselves. Seriously, its crazy some of the shit that is said on this forum.

And you people call yourselves fans.

Who Is arguing? Everyone Is giving there opinion, Isn't that what you do In a forum? Are we less of a fan of Guns N Roses because we like other bands, or think that EVH Is a better guitar player then bumblefoot?

It's ridiculous. We're all Axl fans, but I don't see why we have to pretend that we're fans of each and every person he has brought into New GNR over the years.

It has nothing to do with being an Axl fan or a GNR fan. Ron is better than EVH. He is a much better musician. However EVH is a legend and an icon plus an innovater of guitar. But Ron is still a much better musician.

Exactly. Being the first to mainstream it doesn't make EVH a better musician. Ron is a much better musician. Nothing to do with band preferences, I think a lot of guitarists are better than Eddie, Randy Rhodes, Joe Satriani, Streve Vai, John Petrucci, Yngwie, Buckethead, they all kick Eddies ass. Being the first doesn't make you the best. Is T-Bone Walker better than B.B. King? No.

No but being first makes you a fucken pioneer and not an imitator. Stop trying to minimize Eddies efforts. I think Bucket and Bumble SMOKE the hell out of him as guitarists, but Eddie was an innovator and the rest copied what he did. That alone makes him a standout. And I personally dislike most of Van Halens music but I give credit where credit is due.

If that was the case Eddie would simply be a Hendrix imitator, a Hendrix copy. You are right to an extent - but nobody copied him. They used EVH's playing and songs as an inspiration, that's a different story. They have their own style, their own playing, their own sound. But you can hear EVH's influence in their playing, no doubt. Just like you can hear Paul Gilbert's influence in Bucket's playing, Hendrix's in Ron's playing, etc.

You must have replied just before I edited my original post. I changed it to be more specific and made mention that Eruption changed the way guitar was played across multiple genres. It's not about Eddie inventing two-handed tapping(as far as I know, he only made it popular), but before Eruption in 1977, NO ONE played like that. He changed the way solos were played and that became an archetype which is still VERY evident today, 4 decades later. It's not something you can just 'hear' in someone elses playing like "oh that's a Hendrix lick". The actual structure, pacing and techniques used became it's own style. It became the new 12-bar blues for soloing.

Yes, I replied before you made it more specift. He was important, yes, but those techniques were around already but he did shape them in a way that made guitarists play like him, follow him. I mean, that virtuoso kind of guitar playing was actually created by Hendrix mostly imo. If you hear that famous rendition of the US national anthem you'll hear who Eddie followed. The whammy bar use, the slides, effects, etc. It's not like EVH totally created that kind of playing but rather did shape it. I could be wrong, but I know that Hendrix is who you should praise mostly, not EVH.

I mean, listen to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyGGG1I-rf8

That's where most of the guitar playing we've heard came from imo

And to that guy that loves list, take this one not based on popularity but rather technical skill, creativity, versatility, etc...

http://www.bumblefoot.com/press/200507-digitaldreamdoor/200507-digitaldreamdoor.htm

Hmmm I don't see anything resembling the speed, use of tremolo picking, pacing etc that EHV used in Eruption. Of course Hendrix was from a time where guitar playing was not as advanced and I'm not taking away his innovations. But Eddie seemed to take guitar playing to 'another' direction. This is coming from a guy who does not even like Van Halens music(although "Ain't Talkin' bout love" rocks).

It's not as fast or technical as Eruption, but that's an idea of where it came from. I mean, it's obvious that EVH was totally inspired by Hendrix, but at the same time I do know that EVH took the "virtuoso" guitar playing to the next level. His riffing is top notch as is his soloing as you mentioned. I didn't like their songs but they've grown on me recently - especially the one you mentioned. When Ron himself played that riff I went crazy, I love that song so much. Songs like Jump and Runnin' with the Devil don't do it for me though.

[bran]

Aw, come on... Lars isn't a bad drummer

hes not bad but i can make a long list of drummers before i get to his name

[Georgy Zhukov]

He gets the job done. To be honest i'd take Lars over Neil anyway.

[bran]

He gets the job done. To be honest i'd take Lars over Neil anyway.

:question: :shocked:

Edited February 19, 2012 by bran

[Kill Devil Hill]

the whole who is the better guitar player debate is one that it really doesnt matter its all subjective you could put a top 100 guitarist lists out their and people would reaarange that top 100 a million different ways.

bumblefoot and EVH are amazing players that play totally different styles that play different kinds of music.

Not necessarily. It depends on what you define as "better." If you define it as more skilled, then it's not subjective at all. Objectively, for instance, Neil Peart is a better drummer than Lars Ulrich.

along with about another 100 or so drummers

Indeed.

He gets the job done. To be honest i'd take Lars over Neil anyway.

You'd take the drumming on St. Anger over the drumming on Vapor Trails? Really?

[Georgy Zhukov]

Guess not.

Neil is cool, but I like things simple when it come to drumming.

Edited February 19, 2012 by BirdCatcher

[Georgy Zhukov]

That snare drum was like iron. It is a great album to listen to when pissed off.

[Kill Devil Hill]

It is pretty good technically. It just sounds like he's hitting pots and pans. It just sounds weird to me.

But I'm not really a Metallica fan anyway. I listened to their whole discography a few months ago and only liked a small handful of songs.

[Cosmo]

I don't know what has been happening to Metallica in their last two albums but it seems they forgot how to mix their albums. They sound horrible. St.Anger had those annoying tin can drums and Death Magnetic, even if a good album, sounds horrible. The quality of the recording and mix is just terrible. What's up with that?

[Georgy Zhukov]

I liked Load and ReLoad. I tend to like the music Metallica fans hate. I don't like how discouraging it is to like any post black album Metallica. I saw this one girl who is like five years younger than me wearing a Metallica shirt, she saw them in concert and I asked her what she thought of DM, she said she preferred the old stuff. I mean come on, they did cool stuff since Justice

I do like the Unfortiven Trilogy

Edit: Rick Rubin was a poor choice for producer

Edited February 19, 2012 by BirdCatcher

[Kill Devil Hill]

I don't know what has been happening to Metallica in their last two albums but it seems they forgot how to mix their albums. They sound horrible. St.Anger had those annoying tin can drums and Death Magnetic, even if a good album, sounds horrible. The quality of the recording and mix is just terrible. What's up with that?

I think I might've liked DM, but the production was so off-putting. It was mixed too loudly.

[Cosmo]

I liked Load and ReLoad. I tend to like the music Metallica fans hate. I don't like how discouraging it is to like any post black album Metallica. I saw this one girl who is like five years younger than me wearing a Metallica shirt, she saw them in concert and I asked her what she thought of DM, she said she preferred the old stuff. I mean come on, they did cool stuff since Justice

I do like the Unfortiven Trilogy

Edit: Rick Rubin was a poor choice for producer

I think their best album is Ride The Lightning but... I dig some good tunes from both Load and ReLoad. I really enjoyed the songs they did for S&M. St.Anger (the song) is good too as well as a handful from Death Magnetic. But what I don't understand is how both Load and ReLoad sound a lot more contemporary in terms of sound quality then Death Magnetic. I really don't get the lack of production that album had. I get really pissed off at crappy sounding albums. Can't stand listening to Justice, for example.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I don't know what has been happening to Metallica in their last two albums but it seems they forgot how to mix their albums. They sound horrible. St.Anger had those annoying tin can drums and Death Magnetic, even if a good album, sounds horrible. The quality of the recording and mix is just terrible. What's up with that?

I think I might've liked DM, but the production was so off-putting. It was mixed too loudly.

Not sure when loud became better. It diminishes the quality of the music. They tried that with Chinese Democracy and thank god they didn't go through with it.

I liked Load and ReLoad. I tend to like the music Metallica fans hate. I don't like how discouraging it is to like any post black album Metallica. I saw this one girl who is like five years younger than me wearing a Metallica shirt, she saw them in concert and I asked her what she thought of DM, she said she preferred the old stuff. I mean come on, they did cool stuff since Justice

I do like the Unfortiven Trilogy

Edit: Rick Rubin was a poor choice for producer

I think their best album is Ride The Lightning but... I dig some good tunes from both Load and ReLoad. I really enjoyed the songs they did for S&M. St.Anger (the song) is good too as well as a handful from Death Magnetic. But what I don't understand is how both Load and ReLoad sound a lot more contemporary in terms of sound quality then Death Magnetic. I really don't get the lack of production that album had. I get really pissed off at crappy sounding albums. Can't stand listening to Justice, for example.

I think lo fi distorted production has become cool over the last decade. I think it worked for St. Anger but not DM

[SWINGTRADER]

Chinese Democracy is selling at $0.99 stores right now.

Van Halen's CD will never meet that fate.

Edited February 19, 2012 by SWINGTRADER

[Kill Devil Hill]

Chinese Democracy is selling at $0.99 stores right now.

Van Halen's CD will never meet that fate.

Source?

[Georgy Zhukov]

Chinese Democracy is selling at $0.99 stores right now.

Van Halen's CD will never meet that fate.

Source?

His ass.

[bran]

I liked Load and ReLoad. I tend to like the music Metallica fans hate. I don't like how discouraging it is to like any post black album Metallica. I saw this one girl who is like five years younger than me wearing a Metallica shirt, she saw them in concert and I asked her what she thought of DM, she said she preferred the old stuff. I mean come on, they did cool stuff since Justice

I do like the Unfortiven Trilogy

Edit: Rick Rubin was a poor choice for producer

I think their best album is Ride The Lightning but... I dig some good tunes from both Load and ReLoad. I really enjoyed the songs they did for S&M. St.Anger (the song) is good too as well as a handful from Death Magnetic. But what I don't understand is how both Load and ReLoad sound a lot more contemporary in terms of sound quality then Death Magnetic. I really don't get the lack of production that album had. I get really pissed off at crappy sounding albums. Can't stand listening to Justice, for example.

Justice is their best album but the production sucks.

ride the lightning is my second favorite with justice being my fave i hate every album after that they just went plastic sounding IMO. as for production the reason is death magnetic was recorded with everything pushed to 11 so when you turn up the volume all the noise gets muddled together. the guitar hero mix is wayyy better, on justice same kind of thing drums and guitar recorded very high and the bass almost non existent although someone did that and justice for jason where they turned up the bass and it sounds killer.

as for load and reload they were half assed songs IMO that were slapped together to make money metallica admitted to it on some kind of monster the only song i like on either album is bleeding me

[eschman]

I liked Load and ReLoad. I tend to like the music Metallica fans hate. I don't like how discouraging it is to like any post black album Metallica. I saw this one girl who is like five years younger than me wearing a Metallica shirt, she saw them in concert and I asked her what she thought of DM, she said she preferred the old stuff. I mean come on, they did cool stuff since Justice

I do like the Unfortiven Trilogy

Edit: Rick Rubin was a poor choice for producer

I think their best album is Ride The Lightning but... I dig some good tunes from both Load and ReLoad. I really enjoyed the songs they did for S&M. St.Anger (the song) is good too as well as a handful from Death Magnetic. But what I don't understand is how both Load and ReLoad sound a lot more contemporary in terms of sound quality then Death Magnetic. I really don't get the lack of production that album had. I get really pissed off at crappy sounding albums. Can't stand listening to Justice, for example.

Justice is their best album but the production sucks.

Just tell me you didn't like St. Anger.

[Cosmo]

I liked Load and ReLoad. I tend to like the music Metallica fans hate. I don't like how discouraging it is to like any post black album Metallica. I saw this one girl who is like five years younger than me wearing a Metallica shirt, she saw them in concert and I asked her what she thought of DM, she said she preferred the old stuff. I mean come on, they did cool stuff since Justice

I do like the Unfortiven Trilogy

Edit: Rick Rubin was a poor choice for producer

I think their best album is Ride The Lightning but... I dig some good tunes from both Load and ReLoad. I really enjoyed the songs they did for S&M. St.Anger (the song) is good too as well as a handful from Death Magnetic. But what I don't understand is how both Load and ReLoad sound a lot more contemporary in terms of sound quality then Death Magnetic. I really don't get the lack of production that album had. I get really pissed off at crappy sounding albums. Can't stand listening to Justice, for example.

Justice is their best album but the production sucks.

Not a big fan of the songs either.... But I'm aware it's really appreciated by fans.

[Georgy Zhukov]

They have too many long songs,

[bran]

They have too many long songs,

their long songs are their best songs