i can't begin to imagine the dynamic that was GNR II

[wasted]

"The past is so beautiful, the future's like a corpse in snow" it's kind of a trait of popular consciousness that everything looks better in sepia tone. so when a line up splits up only then does it start to be mythologized and eventually canonized by the media and industry... oh sorry, wrong meeting!

Edited March 21, 2012 by wasted

[maynard]

This thread made me think how grateful I am. If it wasn't for Axl, it probably would take me some time to know Buckethead's work. (or maybe never get to know it!) He is not that popular to begin with, in Brazil, people simply don't know BH. So, thanks Axl for that. Same thing with Robin. Reading about the new line-up around 2000/01, I started listening to "Axl's influences" and one of them was NIN. I was just a teenager with access to guitar players like Slash, Sambora, the Iron Maiden trio, etc... I had no access to "alternative music"... BH and Robin blew my mind, and still do.

I loved the RIR 3 lineup. I had the show recorded and watched every single day. Specially Robin and Bucket's solos. Today, I'm such an open-minded person towards music, and all of this happenned because of RIR 3 and New GNR. I would probably be listening to some crappy music nowadays if it wasn't for them.

I loved the industrial WTTJ, BH's Maddy solo, Robin playing the CD intro, the Silkworms solo. It wasn't legendary, it was a cool band for a little kid who thought a rock band could be a lot more than guitar-bass-drums. GNR was not glamorous. Axl was wearing Chinese shirts. They had synths. They could become a very respected band. No sold-out arenas though. I really wish that some day we will get to listen that experimental era of GNR.

I agree with everybody who says recording straight forward rock (which seems to be the case with DJ) would be a huge mistake. I know Axl is very open minded, but the way he dresses right now (Glam Rock-ish), the old rock n' roll covers during concerts could be a sign that Axl is maybe looking for a back to basics on the new record (if there is one).

Well, I spoke about a lot of stuff and ended up talking about nothing, after all. That's why I'm not a regular poster.

[Apollo]

New GNR was the Axl and Bucket show as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a fuck about ever hearing a new album written by the current touring lineup. I'd fire the whole band today if it meant that Buckethead would come back.

This ^^^^^^^

After seeing Finck on stage (via youtube/ and photos) it's hard not to want him back and bucket. Maybe its a little nostalgia, but god damn Axl was onto something special 10 years ago.

The thing that Bucket and Robin gave the band was a new direction! They were in my opinion the key to moving out of the shadow of the AFD lineup. Maybe not in terms of commercial success but certainly in creating a new sound distinct enough from the old band to get them recognition as a band in their own right. I like the new guys but they're too close in style and image to the old guys for my liking.

Here's the thing I don't get and I stress with people.. If you want a "new different sound" then go find a different band.. Because axl will always be compared to his past guns n roses.. There is nothing he can do to escape it, if he's still running with the gnr name..

I think that's kinda what I was trying to say but at least with the Bucket/Robin/Brain lineup they were sufficiently different to avoid the glorified cover band tag to a greater extent than today. I think that had we been on our third or even fourth album by the 01/02 lineup by now then there would be a much different attitute to things. I don't think it would have been such an enormous success but I think people would at least have been a little more willing to accept them as a band in their own right. Do I think they should have kept the GnR name? Personally it doesn't really concern me but GnR's always gonna be Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven and Izzy to most people so that's something Axl needs to deal with.

I do think though that it's not the constant lineup changes that have hurt this band, rather the inabiity to maintain a public profile and release music on a fairly regular basis. Let me pose the following question and tell me you opinion? Do you think that had GnR circa 1993 continued to tour and release new music in the years between then and now as the lineup changed that people would be so hostile against Axl for keeping going under the GnR name? I mean if GnR remained in the spotlight constantly as each member left and was replaced one by one I think the attitude would have been vastly different.

The single biggest thing that hurt Axl was to disappear for years as all of this went on behind the scenes and debut a totally different band after years in hiding. I mean by the end of the Illusions tour GnR was effectively Axl, Slash and Duff and you didn't hear people screaming that it wasn't GnR, at least not to the same extent. I'd be willing to go as far as saying people wouldn't have kicked up a fuss if the tour had ended with only Axl and Slash still in the band from the original lineup and I think that had we seen a few hit records released post 04 then even Slash's departure wouldn't have been felt so deeply.

That is exactly it.

The Nutters bash me for implying that all the time.

As long as it is Axl singing, new music on a consistent basis would have shut up most of the ongoing criticism.

It really is that simple. Then today we would be arguing which album or line up was better, and we would be doing that by comparing the 4 albums that had been released post Slash.

Bruno and a couple others don't think Axl has the artistic ability to put out music every couple of years, but I think he - along with variations of the band - could easily put out 14 songs ever three years without losing their artistic integrity and respect.

But ya Dazey. It really is that simple. Putting out music is Axl's greatest weapon to shut up the criticism. New music and great tours......that is all they have to do.

[maynard]

New GNR was the Axl and Bucket show as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a fuck about ever hearing a new album written by the current touring lineup. I'd fire the whole band today if it meant that Buckethead would come back.

This ^^^^^^^

After seeing Finck on stage (via youtube/ and photos) it's hard not to want him back and bucket. Maybe its a little nostalgia, but god damn Axl was onto something special 10 years ago.

The thing that Bucket and Robin gave the band was a new direction! They were in my opinion the key to moving out of the shadow of the AFD lineup. Maybe not in terms of commercial success but certainly in creating a new sound distinct enough from the old band to get them recognition as a band in their own right. I like the new guys but they're too close in style and image to the old guys for my liking.

Here's the thing I don't get and I stress with people.. If you want a "new different sound" then go find a different band.. Because axl will always be compared to his past guns n roses.. There is nothing he can do to escape it, if he's still running with the gnr name..

I think that's kinda what I was trying to say but at least with the Bucket/Robin/Brain lineup they were sufficiently different to avoid the glorified cover band tag to a greater extent than today. I think that had we been on our third or even fourth album by the 01/02 lineup by now then there would be a much different attitute to things. I don't think it would have been such an enormous success but I think people would at least have been a little more willing to accept them as a band in their own right. Do I think they should have kept the GnR name? Personally it doesn't really concern me but GnR's always gonna be Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven and Izzy to most people so that's something Axl needs to deal with.

I do think though that it's not the constant lineup changes that have hurt this band, rather the inabiity to maintain a public profile and release music on a fairly regular basis. Let me pose the following question and tell me you opinion? Do you think that had GnR circa 1993 continued to tour and release new music in the years between then and now as the lineup changed that people would be so hostile against Axl for keeping going under the GnR name? I mean if GnR remained in the spotlight constantly as each member left and was replaced one by one I think the attitude would have been vastly different.

The single biggest thing that hurt Axl was to disappear for years as all of this went on behind the scenes and debut a totally different band after years in hiding. I mean by the end of the Illusions tour GnR was effectively Axl, Slash and Duff and you didn't hear people screaming that it wasn't GnR, at least not to the same extent. I'd be willing to go as far as saying people wouldn't have kicked up a fuss if the tour had ended with only Axl and Slash still in the band from the original lineup and I think that had we seen a few hit records released post 04 then even Slash's departure wouldn't have been felt so deeply.

That is exactly it.

The Nutters bash me for implying that all the time.

As long as it is Axl singing, new music on a consistent basis would have shut up most of the ongoing criticism.

It really is that simple. Then today we would be arguing which album or line up was better, and we would be doing that by comparing the 4 albums that had been released post Slash.

Bruno and a couple others don't think Axl has the artistic ability to put out music every couple of years, but I think he - along with variations of the band - could easily put out 14 songs ever three years without losing their artistic integrity and respect.

But ya Dazey. It really is that simple. Putting out music is Axl's greatest weapon to shut up the criticism. New music and great tours......that is all they have to do.

I agree completely.

Record companies? Fuck them.

No money to make a new record? YEAH RIGHT, lol.

Hell, even playing new songs live would keep the real fans (not the casual ones who just want the classics) happy. It's simple. Axl simply doesn't care about it. He wants to make the people who pay to see him happy. Not the fans who believe in his potential and are always hoping for new music.

[Apollo]

Maynard isn't that amazing how simple it could be for Axl to generate so much more excitement and good will! Spend 12 minutes of that 190-to-200 minute show playing a couple new songs.

[maynard]

Sure thing. It's funny because people who care about GNR's legacy, people who want to see the band moving forward and are not happy with endless touring are the "haters". I love the classics. But the place I live, it's not like I can catch a concert every now and then. The concerts are great, I get that. But they please casual fans. The "haters", the people who actually are not blind and see how bad Axl treats the fans, those are the fans who really care about the "music" side of things.

"Axl is havin fun touring." Great! The other guys... well, I'm sure they would love to show what they got. Show how they can keep GNR relevant with their own creations. Bucket and Robin, probably were more concerned about art and not the pay check and left.

Speaking about relevancy, here, it has some differents meanings. Some people are obssessed with numbers. With GNR being the biggest band in the world.

I don't want that. I want integrity. You can't do that living off the past. You can be relevant making great records and not filling arenas.

If you see my posts you can see how I always use Trent Reznor as an example. I'm a fan, of course. I know his flaws (not a "nutter") but the guy is the master in doing what he wants, being relevant and making the fans happy. Axl could learn a thing or two from him.

"But there are law suits holding back blah blah blah"

So, play new material live, problem solved. The casual fans would hate it, though... and they are the ones giving Axl money, so that's unlikely.

I won't lie. If new leaks surfaced today, I'd download every fucking file I could find. I would be happy to pay for a membership and get the material first but GNR is too rock n' roll to do that. The most dangerous band in the planet can't get nerdy. Fuck the internet, let's release plastic discs, let's make a deal with a big store, that's rock n' roll, baby!

In the end, Axl complicates things, he's probably a weirdo, superstitious man. "He is the last true rock star" Screw that! I'm sure the real fans prefer the "nice guy" Axl, not the "prima dona" one.

[Bruno P.]

But that's what made this band so real, is that they all were so extreme in their own way, when they came together everything was magical and exceptional.

Secondly, you sound like you've been watching too many Apple commercials with your 'magical', 'exceptional' crap. It's a rock band, get over it.

:rofl-lol:

I know one thing for sure, this time period solidified GN'R's legendary status... because it made them so much more than an average rock band... it almost made them mythical.

The 2001-2002 period solidified GN'R's legendary status??? Hahahah

Uhm, yeah, some comments are really exaggerated, lol. That's really far from reality. They got all the attention at RIR 3 because they were GNR, not because Brain was there.

I honestly wonder where a few of these rational-thought-challenged theories emerged from,I have an idea though

I genuinely have no idea. It simply isn't realistic

Bruno and a couple others don't think Axl has the artistic ability to put out music every couple of years, but I think he - along with variations of the band - could easily put out 14 songs ever three years without losing their artistic integrity and respect.

I can't believe I'll say this once again...

So all in all - I DO want a new record by all means. I DO want more videos, interviews, DVDs, live footage, etc. No, I WOULDN'T want a record like Bon Jovi's pop-rock generic The Circle. I think it's pretty clear already that I - alongside with several others - made our points so there's absolutely no need to go into circles once again.

There's no need to repeat the same points we already made but you still ignore what I (and others) said. I sincerely can't understand you and your whining posts.

[Voodoochild]

Bruno, I wouldnt waste my time with that guy.

But about the theory and the "magic": well, just watch the MTV video about the begining of the 2002 NA Tour. Buckethead was so weird that he had all he attention. He was iconic enough with both visuals and guitat playing to stand out on stage. And you know how much I prefer Robin and even Ron, but I got admit how Bucket was the one who actually could make non-fans forget about Slash at the time.

Someone said before that Axl should get a different band if he wanted a new sound. Wait, isnt that what he did already? With Buckethead, Brain, Robin and Chris, he could get lots of new influences and sounds, trying new things. With Ashba and all the nostalgia going on now, I dont get the point on having a new band at all.

Sure thing. It's funny because people who care about GNR's legacy, people who want to see the band moving forward and are not happy with endless touring are the "haters". I love the classics. But the place I live, it's not like I can catch a concert every now and then. The concerts are great, I get that. But they please casual fans. The "haters", the people who actually are not blind and see how bad Axl treats the fans, those are the fans who really care about the "music" side of things.

"Axl is havin fun touring." Great! The other guys... well, I'm sure they would love to show what they got. Show how they can keep GNR relevant with their own creations. Bucket and Robin, probably were more concerned about art and not the pay check and left.

Speaking about relevancy, here, it has some differents meanings. Some people are obssessed with numbers. With GNR being the biggest band in the world.

I don't want that. I want integrity. You can't do that living off the past. You can be relevant making great records and not filling arenas.

If you see my posts you can see how I always use Trent Reznor as an example. I'm a fan, of course. I know his flaws (not a "nutter") but the guy is the master in doing what he wants, being relevant and making the fans happy. Axl could learn a thing or two from him.

"But there are law suits holding back blah blah blah"

So, play new material live, problem solved. The casual fans would hate it, though... and they are the ones giving Axl money, so that's unlikely.

I won't lie. If new leaks surfaced today, I'd download every fucking file I could find. I would be happy to pay for a membership and get the material first but GNR is too rock n' roll to do that. The most dangerous band in the planet can't get nerdy. Fuck the internet, let's release plastic discs, let's make a deal with a big store, that's rock n' roll, baby!

In the end, Axl complicates things, he's probably a weirdo, superstitious man. "He is the last true rock star" Screw that! I'm sure the real fans prefer the "nice guy" Axl, not the "prima dona" one.

Great post! You should post a lot more here, amigo.

[Bruno P.]

Bruno, I wouldnt waste my time with that guy.

Yes, took me a few days to realize that. Thank you for the advice.

But about the theory and the "magic": well, just watch the MTV video about the begining of the 2002 NA Tour. Buckethead was so weird that he had all he attention. He was iconic enough with both visuals and guitat playing to stand out on stage. And you know how much I prefer Robin and even Ron, but I got admit how Bucket was the one who actually could make non-fans forget about Slash at the time.

Haha, I obviously know what you mean, but the way the guy referred 'magical' to Apple's commercials made me laugh a lot. That word just doesn't sound right imo

The RIR lineup made me a real Guns fan and apart from Axl Buckethead AND Finck caught my attention. Robin because he sang Sossego before SCOM, played the best NR mid solos ever and had that lil SCOM teaser before playing the actual riff, and Bucket mainly because of his solo spots and the amazing NR outro. My older sister (who introduced me to Guns) told me "Slash was one of the best, if not the best at their heyday, but Axl's got someone as him good now". She was talking about Bucket, so I was surprised to hear that from a huge GNR fan.

[Voodoochild]

Bruno, I wouldnt waste my time with that guy.

Yes, took me a few days to realize that. Thank you for the advice.

But about the theory and the "magic": well, just watch the MTV video about the begining of the 2002 NA Tour. Buckethead was so weird that he had all he attention. He was iconic enough with both visuals and guitat playing to stand out on stage. And you know how much I prefer Robin and even Ron, but I got admit how Bucket was the one who actually could make non-fans forget about Slash at the time.

Haha, I obviously know what you mean, but the way the guy referred 'magical' to Apple's commercials made me laugh a lot. That word just doesn't sound right imo

The RIR lineup made me a real Guns fan and apart from Axl Buckethead AND Finck caught my attention. Robin because he sang Sossego before SCOM, played the best NR mid solos ever and had that lil SCOM teaser before playing the actual riff, and Bucket mainly because of his solo spots and the amazing NR outro. My older sister (who introduced me to Guns) told me "Slash was one of the best, if not the best at their heyday, but Axl's got someone as him good now". She was talking about Bucket, so I was surprised to hear that from a huge GNR fan.

See, that's what I was talking about. I think there was a chance for this band because people needed someone who caught as much attention on stage as Axl, kinda like the Axl-Slash thing in the old band. And Bucket sure could do it, even though he was weird and not always adding anything to the sound. When the album (actually, the 2006 leaks before it) came out, it became crystal clear to me how well Axl and the other producers managed to put Bucket into the sound. He would shine so much more live if they had songs like Better and TWAT being played back then...